Bill Gates Has Spent $1+ Million To Get Mark Zuckerberg's Software In Schools 105
theodp writes: "Today is a milestone for personalized learning," boasted Mark Zuckerberg in a Facebook post Tuesday. "For the first time, more than 100 new schools will adopt personalized learning tools this school year. [...] A couple of years ago, our engineering team partnered with Summit [a Zuckerberg, Facebook, and Gates Foundation supported charter school network] to build out their personalized learning software platform so more schools could use it. [...] Congratulations to the Summit team, the new Basecamp schools and the entire personalized learning community on an exciting milestone!" Perhaps Zuckerberg should have also given a shout-out to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which awarded a $1.1 million grant last year "to support the Summit BaseCamp Program that will bring Next Generation learning at no cost to all partner schools that are accepted into the program." The New York Times characterized the Facebook-Summit partnership as "more of a ground-up effort to create a national demand for student-driven learning in schools." Before you scoff at that idea, consider that an earlier Gates-Zuckerberg collaboration helped give rise to a national K-12 Computer Science crisis!
Perpetuate the myth (Score:1)
A million is nothing to them. They only want people to believe we have no programmers here so they can continue to push H1-Bs.
Re: Perpetuate the myth (Score:5, Informative)
What the fuck are you talking about? Sliding scales?
There are plenty of degreed programmers that can't get jobs, and it's because companies claim they need senior level guys. Then they go and hire Ackmed as their wage slave for next to nothing.
Is Ackmed an expert? No, but for one Anerican programmer you can get 3-4 Ackmeds, so why not?
Re: Perpetuate the myth (Score:5, Insightful)
This. +1 informative
I work for a major IT outsourcing provider... we're talking the scale of the good ole EDS.
In the US-of-A department... we don't have a shortage of qualified workers. Hell, we are laying off qualified workers left and right. And I'm not talking just programming... we're talking system admins, business analysts, finance people, guys who mop the floor, etc.
We're brining in H1B visa people because they are 50% (or less) of the cost of a USA worker. And that's only in the rare occasion we can't offshore to India completely (due to contractual requirements or such), where the cost is 20% of a USA worker. Hell even using Mexico labor is frowned upon because India is cheaper, although the resulting quality and work throughput goes to shit.
This has NOTHING to do with what sort of education you have, your work ethic, the color of your suit, or anything else. It's all about the money and how much it saves the bottom line.
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Exactly.
This has to do with fabricating evidence for a fabricated argument used as an excuse for hiring more H1B visa workers.
There is no shortage of qualified domestic workers, they're just trying to make it look like there is.
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The problem is that the people you lay off don't go away but become a burden on your society. No government, at least no sane one, can consider this a good thing.
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The problem is that the people you lay off don't go away but become a burden on your society. No government, at least no sane one, can consider this a good thing.
Like the manufacturing industry?
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The manufacturing industry is now a government?
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I was trying to show the problem a government has with this kind of behaviour and that it should definitely work against it, no matter the economic religion it clings to.
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That governments put their foot down and declare that the times when you socialize cost and privatize profits are over.
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That governments put their foot down and declare that the times when you socialize cost and privatize profits are over.
Yeah that's an interesting thing to say but what are you proposing in real practical terms? What you've said doesn't actually mean anything.
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And that, folks, is why everything works like unfinished prototypes. 20% of the price for 5% of the product.
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Have you ever considered that those jobs are the current crop of 'bugger flippers'? The next step is minimum wage and then automation.
It's been that way for nearly every profession since the beginning of time. How many people to cotton farmers hire to pick cotton? It was literally slave work before it was automated. Companies stopped hiring C developers for automotive style work when Simulink started writing better C.
There are plenty of jobs out there for 'skilled workers' with 2016 skills. [indeed.com]
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Re: Perpetuate the myth (Score:5, Insightful)
Yea, the software dev manager here was complaining because he needed a new programmer for a project. I jokingly said I could code and he replied that I wouldn't take $20,000 a year but he could contract someone in the Philippines for $20,000 a year. I make quite a bit more than $20,000 but the cost of living is also a lot higher than in Manila.
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-... [numbeo.com]
Indices Difference
Consumer Prices in Denver, CO are 88.95% higher than in Manila
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Denver, CO are 127.23% higher than in Manila
Rent Prices in Denver, CO are 243.15% higher than in Manila
Restaurant Prices in Denver, CO are 198.53% higher than in Manila
Groceries Prices in Denver, CO are 97.02% higher than in Manila
Local Purchasing Power in Denver, CO is 175.43% higher than in Manila
[John]
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"Xenophobes"?
That doesn't parse with the rest of what you said. I'm no xenophobe. I do know that it costs less to live in Manila than it does to live in Denver. Based on the chart, a _lot_ less. So $20,000 goes a lot farther in Manila than it does in Denver. If I lived in Manila, I could get by on $20,000. In Denver that's not going to happen.
But I'm not sure where you got the idea that I or the guys where I work are "xenophobes".
[John]
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Just think how much cheaper managers and especially CEOs have to be in Manila!
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Where have you guys been living? Outsourcing has been going on for decades. Yet the world keeps turning and things are pretty good in the US compared to the fucking Phillipines.
I think you are living an isolated life, because since at least mid 80s inflation-adjusted wages have been stagnant and job participation rates have been declining. This means that fewer people in US have jobs, and ones that do are being paid less (because of how inflation is calculated, having a smartphone over landline is somehow considered a wealth gain, despite it being progress-adjusted the same thing).
I am not even talking here about how millennials getting screwed with student loans and so on. Just
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There are plenty of degreed programmers that can't get jobs, and it's because companies claim they need senior level guys.
Yet from where I'm not even replying to linked in cold calls and I can go onto Indeed right now and walk into any of a dozen jobs.
Perhaps those 'degreed programmers' don't have relevant skillsets in 2016.
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When I hear "Took our Jerbs" I'm reminded of Bob.
Bob was 5 years away from retirement when I started in 2005.
Bob refused to learn AutoCAD. He "didn't trust it". Any task that required drawing would take Bob 5-10x as long as anyone else.
We put an intern in charge of shadowing Bob.
When Bob retired his job was taken over by a few python scripts (He didn't trust Excel's Sort either) and the other stuff was absorbed by fresh graduates that worked much cheaper than Bob.
Bob insisted he was 'highly skilled' because
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they won't find anyone that fits those exact requirements...not in America, not anywhere.
Um, I'm right here. Born in the Midwest. College at a Big 10 school in the Midwest. I fit the requirements for 90% of those jobs. I'm just happy with my current position. My old group had budgeting issues so I jumped to a new section within a week. I was 'unemployed' for all of 2 weeks. I could just as easily applied to any one of those positions.
There are dozens if not hundreds of peers of mine that also fit those requirements. Any one of us could easily apply for and get those jobs.
are extremely targeted
And you say that based
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OK, I agree there's lots of Bobs out there. However, I just hit the magic Logan's Run of 40 in IT, and I hate getting lumped in with the Bobs. I feel I've kept up pretty well with technology, and I've been lucky enough to work in companies where I get exposed to a ton of different things, both new and ancient. My secret has always been to be the guy out in front of anything new we're working on -- the organization & industry I work for now moves very slowly and has tons of proprietary, old technology. i
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I just hit the magic Logan's Run of 40 in IT, and I hate getting lumped in with the Bobs
Then your resume should reflect it. Companies are hiring 40+ year olds all the time. My contract company has 4 open jobs that are all in the realm of 40+ year olds. When there was a recent down turn all of the 'entry level' positions were the ones that got cut.
If you stood on a table at a job fair and shouted those 4 terms recruiters would be coming to you.
Here's what they are:
- Simulink. Simulink is a graphical programming language. https://www.date-conference.co... [date-conference.com]
There is a huge need for programmers that
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Because quantity does not compensate for quality when it comes to code. This isn't burger flipping where it doesn't really matter whether the burger is 100% perfect or just edible. Code that compiles isn't necessarily working and can cost you BIG time when you have to deal with governments that want to know why your triple-redundant database with top security features was hacked and wiped by a 14 year old.
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There are plenty of degreed programmers that can't get jobs, and it's because companies claim they need senior level guys.
Well then perhaps they should start applying to more places. Here's a short list of 4 job searches just within 25 miles of Farmington Hills, MI.
- Simulink [indeed.com] (99 of them are $100k+).
- RTOS [indeed.com]
- dSpace [indeed.com]
- OSEK [indeed.com]
They even have sponsored job listings like this one. [dice.com] [dice.com]. (I doubt they'd pay to sponsor it if they're just using it as an excuse to hire a H1B). Full time. Very good Embedded C knowledge required. Also need to have relevant modern skills like knowledge of CAN, LIN, and FlexRay.
Those results can be replic
vocational schools are still tied to the college s (Score:3)
Vocational schools are still tied to the college system and that part is taking them down. As they forced to have college gen educations + filler and fluff (some are OK but near the full load?)
That is also an issue the full university's where that are lot's of classes that are a time / cost waste for most.
The credit transfer system seems to be very profit driven now days. You must retake our classes even then they are using the same books. It's so bad that some states have laws saying that state schools mus
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The community college tends to emphasize "this is how you do this precise task" without every going into "this is how to understand how this works."
Which is why "Soldering" should be a trade by now along the same lines as pipe fitting, plumbing, electrician, etc. If you need circuits built you hire the solderer. If you need circuits designed you hire the engineer. (And that's not to say one can't learn to do the other).
If they unionized they could prevent offshoring, get decent wages, etc.
Any part of a job that is "This is how you do it" is a skilled trade. That's more or less exactly how skilled trades have always been. Leatherworkers, carvers, blacks
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That's true. There is a distinct lack of 25 year old programmers with 10 years of professional experience in a technology that has only existed for 5 years who are willing to work 60+ hours a week for 20k a year.
The Man Who Loves Children (Score:2)
Zuckerberg is doing this because he loves children. There's absolutely no way he's trying to pull a younger audience to Facebook in order to increase ad revenue. That'd be just WRONG!
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Oh, AC, you are so cynical! In fact, perhaps it stands for "anonymous cynic" in this instance. I'm certain that putting content online that encourages passive memorization will have nothing but benefits for the millions of children who will willingly give up playing Pokemon Go for the joy of "catching" the year that Columbus discovered the Americas or what 7*9 really is...
These hard arsed basterds (Score:1)
Bill managed to convince J. Random Luser that Windows is the PC, now he's helping Zucker convincing the kids that Facebook is the internet. They just can't get enough.
Crisis (Score:3)
a national K-12 Computer Science crisis
Really? A crisis?
Who's going to die because of this?
theodp (Score:2)
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So you know how to code... now what? (Score:2)
Because of this more coding as part of HS education won't get us anywhere other than creating more poorly compensated and/or unemployed coders.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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S*T*A*T*I*S*M, Statism, Yay Statism!!
Start that data harvesting early... (Score:5, Insightful)
Is that how he plans to make up for it? (Score:2)
Send him to mars (Score:1)
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Professors that are not in the real world say how (Score:2)
"Professors" that say how things are done in a real world they have never been in.
https://www.dslreports.com/for... [dslreports.com]
Why all the focus on the STEM jobs? (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, sure, computers are everywhere and its helpful to know how to use them. Math is helpful in most everything from following a recipe in the kitchen to designing space aircraft. Lets face it folks, not everybody gets to be (or even wants to be) an astronaut. Enable the kids to pursue stuff on computers to their little hearts content, but don't force a kid to program if they have no desire to. Let them find their own way through life.
Mike Rowe [dcvelocity.com] has what I think is a great outlook here. There's dozens or even hundreds of jobs out there that go unfilled because they aren't sexy. Many of which can pay more than your typically bachelors in CS or Engineering after a couple years in the trade.
college gym class are a big rip off for most (Score:2)
college gym class are a big rip off for most where one class can cost more then a 2 year high end gym membership.
Some colleges still have the swim test that you have to pay for.
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You're obviously living under the myth that US society is people-centric. Its not, its corp-centric. We are just the cannon fodder to feed their needs. Right now the big corps badly need programmers, so guess what they force the schools to teach it.
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Clearly they do need programmers, but they also want something for nothing, hence the H1B thing.
The more enlightened companies are starting to finally realize that you actually do get what you pay for, so H1B workers are a false economy because all the rework and missing deadlines because H1B workers are actually shit costs 10x as much as paying more for experienced local workers to do it right the first time and get it out on time.
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Don't get me wrong, if it weren't for math and technology my career wouldn't exist, but why exactly do we need entire generations of programmers? Shouldn't we be teaching kids to pursue their interests instead of forcing some ideal on them?
Erm... look at the summary/article more closely. This is not about teaching computer skills, but using computers to personalise and individualise learners, and this would indeed offer the opportunity for kids to pursue their own interests, and for these to be related to curricular goals... if done properly. But it would take billions, not millions, to really do this properly.
Waldorf School of the Peninsula (Score:3)
If technology in school is so great how come the employees of companies such as Apple and Google send their children to a Waldorf School in which they don't use technology (tablets, computers, etc) for teaching? https://www.theguardian.com/te... [theguardian.com]
It sounds as if you were able to take the money from all of these "silver bullets" that are supposed to save education and put it towards the best teachers it would go a long way. Then the union would have to let the underperforming teachers be replaced. (God forbid someone bad at their job should lose it!) And the administration should be cut back so that the teachers can focus on the teaching.
Nothing wrong with education, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
In my opinion, there's absolutely nothing wrong with adding some basic coding education in primary grades. Even if some of it is mandatory, it's better to make sure students are at least exposed to some core concepts. Things like logic, problem solving, etc. need to be developed for just about anyone to function in society these days.
What I don't like are two things -- first is the idea that everyone needs to become a computer programmer, and second is the obvious push for more H-1B visa labor that efforts like this imply.
In the case of "everyone needs to be a coder," here's a perfect concrete example. I'm a systems integration person, so I deal with developers all the time getting their code running in real-world environments. The company I work for has basically offshored all development, so the very few devs and us engineering folks get back a lot of interesting code from a mix of the Usual Suspects (Tata, Infosys, etc.) We're working with an offshore team on brand new development rather than the usual maintenance stuff we give them. They are absolutely incapable of doing anything that isn't explicitly written in a spec document. We have to handhold them through every single step; not once has an original idea come out of that crowd. I think a lot of the "everyone must code" workers domestically will be very much like that. It's not just following a set of procedures -- you need creativity, troubleshooting and problem solving skills to do well in IT or development. In the case I am dealing with now, someone higher up than us got sold the idea by the outsourcer that the offshore team they gave us was a bunch of architect-level, subject matter experts in the technology we're working with, and that's proving to be quite obviously false. But, this same situation could easily be repeated onshore if a bunch of "everyone must code" people are thrown on a project.
Now, for the "we need more H-1Bs" argument -- I don't buy the fact that there aren't trainable people companies can find domestically, and they definitely abuse the H-1B program and body shops to absolve themselves from the need to train employees. If I were elected king, I would fix the problem in 2 phases -- the first would be to turn off the entire program for a period so that no company would have the advantage over another, and re-introduce it slowly with the body shop loopholes closed. Companies only use H-1Bs or body shops because their competitors do -- if no one had access to this cheap labor pool, no one would have an advantage based on it. Until you get rid of the body shop loophole, you're going to have the self-perpetuating spiral of people not finding success in IT or development, and therefore, new entrants will decrease. If people feel they have a stable job ahead of them in their future, they'll continue to study in this field. Otherwise they'll just be rational actors and go into medicine or get an MBA.