How The Internet Helps Sex Workers Keep Customers Honest (qz.com) 147
HughPickens.com writes: Mid-range prostitution is a relatively new market, enabled by technology. Before the internet, it was hard for escorts to find customers: They had to either walk the streets searching for customers, rely on word-of-mouth, or work with agencies. The internet changed all that as Allison Schrager writes at Quartz that if you work at Goldman Sachs in NYC and you want to tie up a woman and then have sex with her, you'll first have to talk to Rita. Rita will "insist on calling your office, speaking to the switchboard operator, and being patched through to your desk. Then she will want to check out your profile on the company website and LinkedIn. She'll demand you send her message from your work email, and require a scan of either your passport or driver's license." Though some escorts rely on sex work-specific sites that maintain "bad date" lists of potentially dangerous clients, others make use of more mainstream sources to gather information about and verify the identities of potential johns. Rita is addressing a problem that every business, both legal and illegal, has. Before the internet, more commerce occurred locally -- customers knew their merchants or service providers and went back to them repeatedly. As technology has expanded our transactional networks, it must also offer new ways of building trust and reputation. "The lesson here is that, while you'd think all the technological options for finding customers would make Rita's job as a madam obsolete, it has actually made her services more critical," says Schrager. "One step ahead of the mainstream economy, Rita's thriving business shows that some jobs won't disappear. They just need to be recast in a way that capitalizes on what made them valuable in the first place."
Bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
Who the fuck in their right mind would give any personal info to a hooker?
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As if you'd send a copy of your id card to a random agent too! I guess she thinks sex is so fantastic that *any* sexworker would do for *any* man, *any* time, and that its not a meat market where women try to appeal to men to turn them on for money, and most of the attempts fail. A man certainly wouldn't go through a long interview process for a f**k.
Yeh, it's clearly made up.
Google Allison Schrager and she looks like a normal woman. Doesn't shown any of the feminist hipster signs:
https://www.youtube.com/wa
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Re: Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
It is degrading and dangerous.
Prostitution is degrading and dangerous because our laws and institutions have made it that way. It isn't like that everywhere. Many other countries have legalized prostitution, which is safer for both hookers and johns. Less violence, less coercion, less disease, less social decay.
Re: Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly!
Why is it legal to have sex for free, but not for money?
Religio-fascists...
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1. "It's wrong because that's what religion says."
2. "It's not wrong because that's the opposite of what religion says."
Count the items with fallacious reasoning here.
Also, check history of the legality of prostitution under officially secular countries, such as the USSR, and what's on the national flag of everyone's "good prostitution policy" reference country.
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I've not been to Nevada but I thought it was at least in some places...
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Everywhere outside Clark and Washoe counties (home to Las Vegas and Reno, respectively).
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Why is it legal to have sex for free, but not for money?
Religio-fascists...
It's actually worse than that. Religion dictates under what conditions you're allowed to engage in sex both in the compensated and not compensated scenario. By definition, prostitution is out because it is not within the bounds of marriage. Sex with no monetary transaction is forbidden outside of the context of marriage. Furthermore, you're forbidden to marry again and thus have sex with more than one person in your lifetime. You can't have sex with someone of the same sex. And then we have the concep
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Not accurate : you can poison your wife or husband to death and re-marry. You'll be well considered, as long as you don't get caught.
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Well, here's the FUN THING about that. If you have sex for money and FILM it...then it is ok!!!
In that case, she's just an actor, not a prostitute!!!
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Foirgot about that aspect :)
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Free? You might not pay in cash but sex is almost never free.
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Sex is not optional, the future of the human race depends on it.
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Seriously, I don't understand why so many people think that the continuation of the human race is so important. What is your reasoning?
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Only because criminals don't have rights: Countries that spend time keeping (minor) criminals in their community, paradoxically, have much less crime. Several US states have realized that institutionalizing teenagers (which most prostitutes are), guarantees negative outcomes.
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You can only give money to a call girl.
They're only hookers when they're dead.
Re: Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
Why wouldn't you? I give personal information to all sorts of people for business reasons. I see no evidence that sex workers are more or less untrustworthy than any other trade. Maybe some are controlled by criminal gangs that would then exploit the details, but that's true of some garages, used car dealerships, nightclubs and restaurants, too.
Re: Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
Why wouldn't you? I give personal information to all sorts of people for business reasons. I see no evidence that sex workers are more or less untrustworthy than any other trade. Maybe some are controlled by criminal gangs that would then exploit the details, but that's true of some garages, used car dealerships, nightclubs and restaurants, too.
Blackmail? The garage isn't going to threaten to rat you out to your wife unless you pay more. The restaurant is not going to make money by threatening to tell details of your meal to your children. The garage can't extort money out of you by revealing that you had your car fixed by them.
I can't imagine any john stupid enough to give a hooker their real name, much less verify their employer!
Re: Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
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I can't imagine any john stupid enough to give a hooker their real name
What is so difficult to grasp that the story is not about "hookers" but about high professional sex workers?
Oh, probably the problem in your mind is that in your state "hooking" is illegal? Fortunately all the "hooker" related crime goes away as soon as "sex work" is legal, as in Europe e.g.
You can be assured that a Lady that charges $1000 per day keeps here customers a secret and has no intention to "black mail" former (and potential fu
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I can't imagine any john stupid enough to give a hooker their real name
What is so difficult to grasp that the story is not about "hookers" but about high professional sex workers?
I fail to see the distinction. You never heard the term "High-class hooker"?
Oh, probably the problem in your mind is that in your state "hooking" is illegal?
No. The problem is that it's socially undesirable (whether as a provider or customer), even in places where it is legal. This allows the hooker to simply extort when times are hard.
Fortunately all the "hooker" related crime goes away as soon as "sex work" is legal, as in Europe e.g.
You can be assured that a Lady that charges $1000 per day keeps here customers a secret and has no intention to "black mail" former (and potential future) customers: because that would be damn bad for her business!
So, she encrypts that info, right? And she trusts "Rita" to encrypt the info too? And she'll never accidentally lose the database? Or her machine will never ever get pwned?
Face it, no one in their right mind would want a traceable record of their visit
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I have no idea about Rita ... which is probably a fictional character.
I simply say that a high class escort lady has no reason to do anything of what the parent claimed.
There is a difference between a "hooker" and a high class escort worker.
If you don't see that, it is your problem.
Face it, no one in their right mind would want a traceable record of their visit to a prostitute.
Which is quite impossible to avoid when you use a "call girl" and don't pick up a "hooker" from the street.
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Face it, no one in their right mind would want a traceable record of their visit to a prostitute.
Which is quite impossible to avoid when you use a "call girl" and don't pick up a "hooker" from the street.
How is that impossible, you can meet at a hotel you paid cash for, call her on a throw away phone or a pay phone. Where is the personal information leak?
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We where talking about a Escort services, hence I put "call girl" into quotes.
If you plan to have an escort Lady and be with her in public, she must be extremely dumb not to figure your name.
How is that impossible, you can meet at a hotel you paid cash for, call her on a throw away phone or a pay phone.
Yes, for a "hooker". Not for a "professional". Agreeing to meet a guy under such circumstances is just an invitation to abuse or more.
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The same cultural memes which make such extortion viable also lower the bar to simply murdering the extorting prostitute. It relies on the idea that sex is sinful and diminishes those practicing it.
And so does your unstated premise that a prostitute is any more likely to be criminally inclined than any other professional who mig
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The same cultural memes which make such extortion viable also lower the bar to simply murdering the extorting prostitute. It relies on the idea that sex is sinful and diminishes those practicing it.
What do you propose? That we change all societies in existence so that they don't consider prostitution negatively?
And so does your unstated premise that a prostitute is any more likely to be criminally inclined than any other professional who might learn embarassing secrets about you.
Actually, that wasn't a premise of mine, unstated or otherwise. It says more about you than about me that you need to make up something I might mean when you yourself acknowledge I said no such thing
Regardless, someone willing to break the law as a career choice just might not be as careful with your secrets as other professionals are. After all, while your doctor has his livelihood for a caree
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Re: Bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)
High-priced prostitution has a big incentive to be discrete - they want existing customers to be repeat customers. They want new customers to feel safe and confident about what they're doing.
Now I'm not saying that's how it actually works in practice. I'm just wary of saying blackmail is the automatic outcome. Because discretion might ultimately be the most profitable policy for the prostitution providers. Most especially the expensive ones.
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The downside of blackmail is that you may make a lot of money from one mug. But if word gets out your business is essentially destroyed instantly.
How long do you think a prostitute intends to stay in the game for? How long do you think before the average prostitute "retires"? I've never even seen a prostitute over 30. You're essentially betting that when she can't make as much as she did due to aging, she'll still want her business "reputation"?
Now I'm not saying that's how it actually works in practice. I'm just wary of saying blackmail is the automatic outcome. Because discretion might ultimately be the most profitable policy for the prostitution providers. Most especially the expensive ones.
They may care only while they're in business; upon retirement they may suddenly realise "Hey, I've got proof of sleeping with thousands of wall street bankers who may want to keep it a secret!" Only a very ver
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The downside of blackmail is that you may make a lot of money from one mug. But if word gets out your business is essentially destroyed instantly.
Strongly disagree. The whole premise of ransomware depends on the existence of a sustainable model of blackmail. Just like any business you can be too greedy or too reckless and fail, but once the word of the standard operating procedures are established a working arraignment can often be found.
On the other hand, if some third party causes a break of the unwritten rules (e.g, 9/11 or ashley madison), then all bets are off for that type of business...
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Seems a bit risky to me. Think I'd rather sign up with that Ashley Hasleton.
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Congratulations if you said e). Maybe prostitutes are by and large honest (despite operating outside the law). The potential for harm is still far worse. And the risk isn't even just blackmail
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Hah hah. I knew a guy who got busted because he used a credit card. The cops took down a massage parlor and had his name, dates, billing address...
There's no way I would even give my real name to a hooker.
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Also, that is simply not how prostitution works. The Internet may have changed how I order many products; I might order a hard drive directly from China. But no one is ordering prostitutes non-locally, and having them shipped over seas.
Before the internet, more commerce occurred locally -- customers knew their merchants or service providers and went back to them repeatedly.
Re:Bullshit (Score:4, Informative)
HAHAHAH oh how little you know
Yes, you most certainly CAN order a prostitute from overseas on the Internet. Or anywhere you want. It'll cost you, but the higher priced ones, oh yes they do indeed travel. Look up Christine McQueen for an example
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Wow, those fake tits are disgusting. I wonder what kind of loser pays girls like these.
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Interesting. I would like to know more about how modern prostitution works, since you obviously are quite familiar with the process, unlike the author of the article who clearly just made it all up from thin air.
Why do people think their intuition, based on almost nothing more than movies and maybe a documentary from 10 years ago, are absolutely 100% right?
Re:Bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)
"You want references? No problem. Email the phone numbers of some of your johns, and I'll verify you're not a cop or a blackmailer, and then send my references right over."
You named it correctly (Score:5, Insightful)
I didn't get past the summary which for me is rare. It's like some weird Penthouse Forum story, written by a person who is completely oblivious to reality and no experience or knowledge of prostitution. I mean, they could have paid a real prostitute money to interview them, but instead they just made shit up. Really stupid shit at that.
Usually there is a purpose for this kind of trash, but in this case I'm really stumped. Maybe they think they will normalize people giving hookers info by making elaborately false claims?
Re:Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
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There's a site called p411 that a huge percentage of hookers use. It does exactly this, and apparently enough Johns consent that these hookers stay in business. Sure, the hookers individually may or may not know this information - they just know people on the site have been verified I think - but users of the site DO give out their information and the site calls to verify the references are legit.
If p411 ever gets taken down, it might in fact be public knowledge who was on the list. Just another risk (mo
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I know some high class dominatrix and kink professionals, you don't get into the door without some form of background check or community reference.
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I don't know about the details of this story but highly paid sex workers do verify their clientele. You can't afford getting stiffed for $10k. These are not hookers on the streets, these are professionals you can take to a classy party with you (and get sex).
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https://www.theeroticreview.co... [theeroticreview.com]
The reviews read like Penthouse Forums and they list prices and contact info for the women. The easiest way to contact a prostitute you like from a review is by going through one of these agencies to verify you're not a cop or a serial killer. IIRC agencies used the term switchboard when describing their process but there are different ways to verify you if you prefer them not to call your office. I can't vouch
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Call a "switchboard operator"? "patched through" to your desk? What is this, 1946? The mid/highclass hookers aren't asking their customers for identification. Who writes this garbage?
Thats a fancy way of saying receptionist.
No high level exec of a fortune 500 company has a direct line in. There will be at least one human you'll have to get past to speak to the vice director of what ever, let alone a CxO.
That is just one of the cues that tell you this article is bullshit.
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"Call a "switchboard operator"? "patched through" to your desk? What is this, 1946? The mid/highclass hookers aren't asking their customers for identification. Who writes this garbage?"
Naaa, the rich and powerful don't have to live in the current decade and insist on keeping the trappings of yesteryear they perceive as showing they are powerful and not just clueless out of touch with the rank and file.
Re:Never (Score:4, Insightful)
The "HughPickens.com writes" should be enough warning for everyone.
I'm sure there is a real story on this topic which is interesting on many levels but this isn't it.
So many things about this make it look like back of the envelope scrawling in a bar just before deadline.
File it with all the "toothing" casual sex hookups that were a media thing but never appeared to have actually happened as written.
Proposition is a man's dream (Score:1)
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You have that backwards, the overwhelming majority of the homeless, the undereducated, and the disenfranchised are men. Over 60% of college graduates are women, over 70% of the homeless are men.
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How's it abuse to women if they are the only ones who can get a job? Try that as a man!
What's sad is you probably believe all that (Score:3)
Other people have debunked your numbers but something not debunked is the notion that all sex service are trafficking. Women being trafficked are actually a rainy minority of those selling sexual services (which ranges form escort to stripper to everything in between).
Being able to use your body as you see fit, including making money, is not a "man's dream" - it is the dream of humanity. If an athlete or model can make money from their body why not a sex worker (and remember we are not just talking women
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Let's not promote abuse towards woman on tech sites.
Oh please go shut the fuck up. Reporting on this made-up nonsense is not "promoting abuse towards women", you asshole.
Sounds like a great way to get blackmail material (Score:2, Insightful)
Count me in. Selling sex makes good money, but I bet you could make even more with blackmail!
One step ahead of the mainstream economy? (Score:3)
EDITORS: RTFA (Score:5, Informative)
Hughpickens writes
"and you want to tie up a woman and then have sex with her, you'll first have to talk to Rita."
The article actually reads:
"you want to be tied up by a woman and then have sex with her"
I don't know but I think we're talking about different specialists here aren't we?
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It's kind of a better example though: subs are waaaay more careful about picking clients or dates than dommes, for obvious reasons.
Rita's job is not obsolete, Rita is not her job. (Score:2)
Rita's job is not obsolete but what she does can fairly easily be replicated with a script.
It just doesn't matter (Score:2)
Laws do not really matter anymore, do they?
Everyone speeds after all, and no-one cares about that.
So it is with sex services, people all over the world are breaking whatever sexual regulation may be present, and few people really care.
That is the point of having so many laws, so that people stop caring, start breaking, thus there is always something the state can hold over anyone - unless you are rich or well-connected, so the upper class does not have to suffer the effects of laws that crush the general po
Firefly (Score:1)
The /. summary and the article differ. (Score:3, Informative)
The linked article says "... If you work at Goldman Sachs in a major US city and you want to be tied up by a woman and then have sex with her
That's a substantial difference. Who changed what, and when? Is that poor
What if... (Score:3)
...you don't work at Goldman Sachs?
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Then you use Craigslist like all the other plebs.
Workers at Goldman-Sachs don't screw hookers (Score:3)
Now they are eyeball deep in the looting scandal [reuters.com] that stole over $2.5 billion dollars out of the Malaysian economy.
So no matter how much fun it is for Wall Street types to tie up hookers, or be tied up by them, nothing comes close to egomaniac thrill of wrecking entire economies for profit. That's why they keep doing it over and over again.
BTW, one of the truly ironic features of this case is that some of the stolen money was used to fund the film The Wolf of Wall Street. You can't make this kind of shit up.
Puzzled (Score:1)
So basically... (Score:2)
...Rita is a pimp, right? I thought it was illegal.
Re: Also for blackmailing them (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Also for blackmailing them (Score:4, Funny)
Why am I reading this? What happened to my life?
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Your organs should pay for the damage, don't worry.
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"Would you suck my dick for a million dollars?"
"Yes. A million dollars will buy a lot of mouthwash."
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If I did, it would be my impression of you.
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"Would you suck me off for a million?"
"Uh... sure!"
"Would you suck me off for a nickle?"
"Hell no, do you think I am a whore?"
"We have established that you are already, we're just haggling for the price now".
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"Would you marry an orange Oompa Loompa who had a billion dollars?"
"Of course, dahlink"
"Would you marry an orange Oompa Loompa who was broke?"
"Vat do you take me for?"
"We've already established that, now we're just negotiating."
[The Art of the Deal]
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Why would you think I was referring to Donald Trump?
Re: Also for blackmailing them (Score:1)
If someone's dignity is on the line it's the customers, not the workers.
Re: Also for blackmailing them (Score:5, Insightful)
So does this mean anyone who has a pee fetish is unworthy of respect? What other sexual practices disqualify one from having dignity - anything except missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation with the lights off?
Or is the real issue here that, after the piss goes on them, they take a shower and get on with their lives, having suffered no actual harm whatsoever, and that insults your sense of propriety?
Re: Also for blackmailing them (Score:1)
You don't have to put money in your toilet for every piss. You're being scammed.
Re: Also for blackmailing them (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing I've learned in life is that guys who call it "smash some puss", very rarely get to smash any puss.
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One thing I've learned in life is that guys who call it "smash some puss", very rarely get to smash any puss.
Yep. I was going to say that this guy sounds like a real smooth player, but then I started laughing and couldn't stop.
"Smash some puss" indeed, this is the mark of a loser who's probably never seen an actual woman naked.
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I saw "smash some puss" live at the Greek last year. They have really gone downhill.
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As the saying goes - you're not paying for sex, you're paying for her to go away afterwards.
I have a friend who is (was) a sex worker for a time. Being the curious sort, I asked her about the work, and what sort of guys she saw. There were, obviously, the creeps (the ones who kept trying to push boundaries, or tried to steal shit, or were just fucking weird.) Many of the guys, however, she said fell into a few categories:
1) Married / in a relationship, but sexually unhappy - the prostitute was a low-ris