Office Depot Allegedly Diagnosing Computers With Nonexistent Viruses To Meet Sales Goals (consumerist.com) 161
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Consumerist: A new report claims that some Office Depot employees are falsely claiming computers are infected with viruses in order to meet sales goals. According to KIRO-TV in Seattle, employees of the office supply retailer allege that pressure to sell protection plans and other services has led store staffers to misdiagnose computers with viruses. To investigate the claims, the station took six computers to various Office Depot stores in Washington and Oregon for PC Health Checks. There technicians determined that four out of the six computers showed symptoms of malware. To fix the issues, the employees attempted to sell services costing up to $200. The only problem? The computers were out of the box new. A second test by a unaffiliated computer security firm found no symptoms of malware and no needs for repair. The employee tells KIRO that workers selling the services are just following corporate mandates. To make matters worse, he says, the company posts sales goals and current employee sales in the break room for all to see. This, he claims, creates more aggressive associates to push harder when selling the protection plans for nonexistent programs.
Used to work here, and... (Score:5, Informative)
... yeah. Not surprised at all. The encouragement to flat-out lie to meet unrealistic sales goals (for the extended warranties and services) is about 90% of the reason I quit back when they started offering these services.
Re:Used to work here, and... (Score:5, Interesting)
They are basically all the same, with some worse than others but still in the same range.
Seriously, would you go to Office Depot to get your computer "fixed" ?
I still buy from such stores if the price is good and I know the product I am buying.
-never buy extended warranty
-don't go there if you experience problems except catastrophic failure which luckily never occurred to me yet.
Basically, I consider myself more or less on my own.
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Me personally? No. Others though, especially when they're less-computer-literate business travelers (or tourists) and need a quick turnaround? I'm not saying it's smart, but it's understandable why they'd do it.
If they'd actually hired people on the ground who knew what they were doing (or let existing employees who knew what they were doing actually DO something,) it might have actually been a worthwhile service. As it was when I worked there though, if anything needed to be done, you connected it up to a
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Me personally? No. Others though,
The solution is to educate people, period. Send them to this thread and start educating them. Whining didn't pay off before and I don't see when it is going to.
Act!
Cheers ;-)
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Oh, I'm way the hell removed from retail now. They started offering these services back in... 2008, I think? And I was out of there by 2009. Now I've got a small userbase that I keep nicely in line. Now, if only I could get some budget...
Re: Used to work here, and... (Score:2)
Re: Used to work here, and... (Score:5, Funny)
FutureShop was like that too in Canada and we see how well that went for them.
What's FutureShop?
Oh. I see your point.
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For a long time - maybe almost a decade - they've been "Best Buy" in practice. The last couple years they've become so in name as well.
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More like "I used to work at one of the stores shown in the video."
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CompUSA was amazingly badly managed. (Score:2)
Of course they have malware (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes they have malware.
That's part of the package that comes on every new computer.
And that is not counting Win 10 - the king of malware.
Re:Of course they have malware (Score:5, Informative)
Ever take a Lenovo Windows 8 machine out of the box? The shovelware that encumbers it boggles the mind. It took me three hours to scrape that crap from my sister's brand new machine. Given the performance of the machine before and after, I'd go to court today and testify it was legitimately infected with malware.
Ironically, for that much work at my rates, Office Depot would be undercharging.
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When I set out to help her make it run faster, I didn't anticipate that it would be that difficult, or take that long. I thought I could just uninstall one or two things and she'd be fine; but the machine was running so badly that each thing I uninstalled was followed by an equally slow reboot in hopes that would fix the problem. The worst offender turned out to be the free McAfee "security" suite. Learning that I needed to download a McAfee Consumer Product Removal Tool, wading through their equally fru
Bad job market + impossible sales goals (Score:5, Insightful)
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If most people woke up and realized that they could walk into a bank and rob it with no real consequence to themselves, how long do you think it would take before they were all hit? I personall
Re:Bad job market + impossible sales goals (Score:5, Insightful)
Mod parent up (Score:2, Insightful)
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"this is what happens when you put people in charge of gov't that don't believe gov't can do anything."
Nah, this is what happens when you put people in charge of gov't that don't WANT the gov't to do anything to protect consumers, only increase the wealth of the already wealthy....
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The USPS is self-supporting, and NASA has a tiny slice of the budget.
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When you have an entire poltical party claiming 'government is bad; regulation is evil' and winning because of it, why would you expect any other result?
And furthermore, the bad evil government isn't doing anything to help me get a job!!
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Gee folks, can we all say "WELLS FARGO" ? -lol-
Uhhh... (Score:5, Insightful)
"The only problem? The computers were out of the box new."
That's not a guarantee they were malware free. There are many reports of Malware being installed on new systems - even on Slashdot!
"A second test by a unaffiliated computer security firm found no symptoms of malware and no needs for repair."
But that's proper proof!
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Possible interpretations of that sentence:
1. The report appeared on slashdot as a story ;-)
2. Slashdot serves malware
3. Slashdot makes infected PC's (Do they install duplicate software?
#1 would seem the most likely, but appearing on slashdot doesn't give an article enough extra cred to deserve the explanation point.
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Oh! Crap! No! Redo!
Thanks!
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I was sort of thinking the same thing. But realistically... Occam's razor leads me to the same probable conclusion as the Consumerist report.
It's not that this is new, either. I'm not sure if you're old enough to remember the Sears auto repair scandal quite a few years ago [nytimes.com]? Same thing really.
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"The only problem? The computers were out of the box new."
Ah, Lenovo...
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Most people in my circle would refer to anything McAfee or Norton as malware.
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Fixing software issues is like witchcraft. So who are you gonna trust, the dork at Staples trying to get you to swap out the piece of shit you have for another piece of shit in a box, or the wizard down the street that works on that sort of stuff every day who probably doesn't sell new machines because he fixes them instead?
Given your parameters, a witch.
Double, double, toil and trouble.
Firmware burn and water cooling bubble.
Re:I bet this happens a LOT (Score:4, Interesting)
My step-father frequently thinks he has a virus... most of the time it's not. Last time it was yet another anti-virus that best buy up sold to him telling him that his subscription was about to expire and yes they installed it for him even though he already had a current subscription to symantec that they sold him when he bought the thing. His dsl subscription also came with a subscription to Mcafee and he had all three installed.
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machine likely ran worse than if there really was a virus, what with three separate on-access scanners running, and three packet sniffers slowing down internet traffic...
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I used to work for a big name dsl, I was constantly seeing two or more anti-virus suites installed. They would let one subscription expire and install a new anti-virus without removing the old one instead of just renewing it.
We need fewer regulations on business (Score:2, Funny)
Re: We need fewer regulations on business (Score:1)
Tip of the iceberg (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm pretty sure cheating-to-reach-sales-goals is quite common and inflicts lots of industries. The techniques, psychology, and practices used by Wells Fargo and Office Depot are common to corporations.
Ghost services and their fees have "accidentally" been added to our telecom bills on multiple occasions, for example.
I've even worked for companies that have paid me to lie to clients (not consumers). The body language of managers pushing to do such suggested it was common and expected. It was either really good acting to convince me it's normal and risk-free, or it is indeed common and expected to them. Either of those scenarios is evil.
It's one reason why talk of deregulation makes me nervous. It's not just trickle-down, but slime-down.
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>Remove all the rules and see what happens.
Ultimate Frisbee, of course.
Re: Tip of the iceberg (Score:2)
No Jail = Problems [Re: Tip of the iceberg] (Score:3, Insightful)
I worked at a place where a clerk in accounting manipulated the bills to trick customers to send refunds to her own bank. The clerk got away with about $10k (in current dollars) before caught. She lost about the same in pension when fired, but was NOT turned over to law enforcement.
She seemed like a nice person, but grew quiet during the period she was cheating.
A similar crime happened about 2 years later by somebody else in the same accounting department. That's what happens when they are not jailed: you s
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Thanks. By the way, can you recommend a good Firefox grammer chekker?
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Managers don't leave a documentation trail. They use "goal" pressure and implication to get low-level employees to cheat. When discovered, they blame everything on the low-level employees.
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Fraud is still fraud, and lying to customers in order to swindle money out of them is fraud. What irritates me the most is even though this is now known to be going on no perps are being fined, jailed, or even investigated.
Sending people to jail is a form of regulation, and regulation in any form is bad.
Re: Sounds like RadioShack (Score:2)
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RadioShack was: "You've got questions, we've got blank stares".
*sigh* They used to be a good company, even if a bit expensive, for components and such. I remember having their "free battery of the month club" cards and going to different stores with different cards to get enough batteries for my projects.
Then they abandoned the hobbiest market. Went out of business shortly thereafter.
-nB
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The hobbyist market most places is too dispersed for the catchment area of a physical store.
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Re: Sounds like RadioShack (Score:1)
In a sane job market, (Score:4, Insightful)
workers forced into this type of a situation by management would say "F___ you" and walk out. Maybe get a job in manufacturing.
Except we don't have a sane job market, manufacturing jobs have been decimated in the name of profit (management calls it "globalism" and "free trade"). Other manual jobs are equally hard to come by, due to the large scale importation of low-cost laborers (management calls it "open borders" and "dreamers").
Let's be honest here, sales associates at Office Depot or Wells Fargo aren't exactly MIT material. They can't retrain and become doctors or aerospace engineers. Manufacturing used to be one place where non-rocket scientists could go and make a decent living, and now that''s gone.
Re:In a sane job market, (Score:4, Interesting)
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I agree with you to an extent. But UBI and open borders do not mix well. At all.
The one country on earth currently rich enough and organizationally sane enough to make a success of UBI, Switzerland, just voted it down... even though majority of the people polled agreed with the concept. Reason for voting no? They felt that UBI would make Switzerland a magnet for immigrants from poorer countries.
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Even with open borders and a global economy I think UBI is inevitable; the real question is whether we get there through carefully crafted laws and human compassion, or whether we get there kicking and screaming through half-measures and bureaucratic red tape.
Throughout history there was always a way to use additional labor productively (more farmers more factory workers more whatever), so we based our method of divvying up our resources by how much you contributed. Well with robots and drones, and self
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Compassion? There are enough psychopaths at the top that the answer will be population reduction via war. Not only cheaper... likely profitable.
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Actually, I'm enough of a cynical bastard to think we'll arrive at it through rioting and other social unrest.
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UBI can not be enforced at the current level of consumption and, for honesty's sake, waste produced by developed countries.
UNIVERSAL basic income means what it means, "universal." It should be a basic income that allows to have a "universal" lifestyle. Certainly not a 1st world country lifestyle. Otherwise, that just means the income is stolen from poorer/undeveloped countries and their workers.
You probably fail at understanding the consequences. UBI is revolutionary if and only if it gets applied to everyo
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UBI will be implemented one country at a time. It will provide a satisfactory but not lavish lifestyle for the community, more or less. It will not mean we're all equal financially, since people will have ways to earn more money. The revolutionary effects in employment is that workers will have the option to just quit at any time. This will remove a wide range of exploitation possibilities. Employers would have to pay extra to get people to do distasteful or dangerous jobs. They will have to maintain
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I would say "F___ you" and then *NOT* walk out. I would *MAKE* them fire me. Don't let Management think that this is a good idea. They will have to write down the reason for firing, and then they can be audited.
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"sales associates at Office Depot or Wells Fargo aren't exactly MIT material. They can't retrain and become doctors or aerospace engineers. "
Even if they were that smart, that isn't something you can do overnight. It can take 4-10 years to "become doctors or aerospace engineers" even for the MIT crowd. They still have to eat in the meantime, and not everyone has mommy and daddy to cover the bills.
Define malware first (Score:3)
If these tools (the dumb techs, not the software) are anything like geek squad, then they define "malware" to include tracking cookies and other mundane data.
Re: Define malware first (Score:1)
Not new.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow- again?
The problem is that people think these places have qualified techs. They don't (in my opinion). And they are not forced to have qualified techs because the customer has no idea how their appliances work. So they can get away with it, mostly, and not get caught unless someone actually looks.
The other (big) problem is that these companies engage in price competition so viciously that they cannot make money on what they sell- they have to make money on selling services that are essentially useless.
I saw this going on in the early 90s when CompUSA was petrified that Best Buy would be coming into their markets. First it was price match. Then it was sales goals (for non commissioned employees). Then it was selling extended service. Then is was in-house CompUSA credit.... Then PDAs... and right before they closed- phones....
Of course it didn't work. If you give up the profit on the main thing you sell, you cannot make it up with add-ons. So the company failed.
Best Buy took it to a new art form. Extended warranty, art of the up-sell, credit card sales in the isles, and finally the "Geek Squad". Best Buy is still limping along... not for long. I wonder if they are still doing jumping jacks before the store opening?
And Office Depot.... taking advantage of customers with fictitious computer problems and viruses. I bet they only arrived there after the extended warranty, in house credit-card, in-house tech services failed to make them a profit.
These kinds of happenings are rife in the brick and mortar retail tech industry. There are exceptions... but if all they do is compete on price- eventually add-ons fail to save the company.
Then the company puts pressure on it's staff.... then corruption starts.....it's predictable.
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Here is a nknown fact.. even the big places hire untrained idiots and do this. Best buy "geek squad" are some of the most inept people out there.
Re:Not new.... (Score:4, Informative)
How is this different from a mechanic? (Score:4, Interesting)
When I am forced to take my car for service, I take it to my mechanic friend. If he is busy, he will make time to come with me to the shop/dealer while dropping off and picking up. This keeps them a little bit honest, as he can call bullshit in a language I don't speak.
When my mechanic friend needs PC help he brings his computer to me, if I am to busy, I make time to go with him to the repair guys. I can call bullshit in a language he don't speak..
I live in a Seattle suburb. I actually saw this story on the local news a few days ago, we all got a big laugh out of it. My 11 year old boy laughed the loudest, he's been repairing neighborhood computers for the elderly for about a year. I'ts crazy that computer repair houses are still a thing. Your local teen can likely perform basic PC repair service in exchange for a couple of bucks, or a day off of chores. If not, he knows a guy that can.
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Your local teen can likely perform basic PC repair service in exchange for a couple of bucks, or a day off of chores. If not, he knows a guy that can.
Shhhhhh, let me keep my niche of the market a little bit longer.
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So, how many teens could do computer repair fifteen years ago? I'd suspect there are more now.
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Re: How is this different from a mechanic? (Score:1)
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I dont disagree with the gist of your post, but this is silly. Having a slightly older teen, I would say that neither he nor any of his friends disassembles PCs in any way. (They may be able to remove the cover and stare at it if it makes a weird noise, as most adults could too). I have obviously taught my son how to do it, but I think what a lot of people forget, is that we, the people who were there at the dawn of the computer age, had to fix ever
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For the elderly? Sure. You? Probably not a good idea. Better stick to 18 year olds, dingleberry.
What a suprise.... (Score:2)
Honestly ANYONE foolish enough to take their computer to an office supply is pretty touched. Do you take your car to get fixed at the Sandwich shop?
Daves auto repair and hair salon! Get your oil changes and a new hairdoo!
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Reminds me of Casey's Veterinarian Clinic and Taxidermy, whose motto was, "No matter what, you'll get your pet back."
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Do you take your car to get fixed at the Sandwich shop?
Totally. They don't do a very good job on the car, granted, but The Cajun shrimp is excellent. [amazon.com]
Of course they are (Score:2)
Of course they're doing this. I'd be more surprised if it turned out that they weren't.
And of course Best Buy's Geek Squad is famous (or should it be "infamous"?) for doing this too.
Who needs Office Depot? (Score:5, Funny)
I get all the tech support I need from helpful services that call me whenever my computer has a virus. Somehow they know! Sure, it's expensive, but all I have to do is answer the phone and follow simple directions. A bunch of smart people with foreign accents take care of everything!
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They get mad at me when I tell them to call back when their software runs on Linux.
Add-on crapware (Score:1)
The only problem? The computers were out of the box new.
Okay, so maybe neither the tech nor the "PC Health Check" software knew the difference between a virus and the crapware that's on the system "out of the box" (and no, I don't mean the bare-bones Windows 10, I mean all the slow-your-system-down add-ons the manufacturers put on there). Why am I not surprised.
More likely, the software was dumb and the tech was pretending to be dumb to meet quota.
Windows 10 (Score:2)
The computers were out of the box new.
Just because a computer is out-of-the-box new, doesn't mean it can't contain malware -- and in fact a lot of people here will tell you that many new computers come with malware embedded at the OS level. Before it was limited to certain countries or companies, like a recent case where the manufacturer installed malware to intercept ads and replace them with their own, and to forge security certificates so they could do it with secure websites. Now the OS itself shows symptoms of malware, which will make it m
Came for the Wells Fargo jokes (Score:1)
stayed for the former employee stories.
Yet another example of misaligned incentives - short term profits over long term brand value
It's all of the stores (Score:2)
Office Depot, Best Buy, Staples, etc. are all guilty of this. I walk in with a system just to test them. 95% of the time, they get caught in an outright lie.
Malware on brand new PC with Windows OS (Score:1)
Just because (Score:2)
Just because a computer is new out of the box from the retailer doesn't mean it wasn't shipped with malware. I'm looking at you, Microsoft and Lenovo!
Hmmm, looks familiar (Score:1)
"Looks like you got the 'We11sFar60' virus. It'll be $200 to remove it."
Sorry, this is news? (Score:2)
I was under the impression everyone knew office depot ( and just about every other computer shop out there ) pulled this. The temptation to upsell is just too good when you have truly ignorant clients. This was previously ( and currently ) seen in the automotive repair industry.
I'd say that's just the tip of the iceberg too. Let's face it, normal customers are dirt poor, so you gotta scam a bunch of them to turn a penny. No, the real money is in the b2b sales; where you can fleece an entire company for
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A lot of different people actually do like having computers get serviced.
"FBI asks computer shops to help fight cybercrime" (Feb 5, 2004)
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.... [honoluluadvertiser.com]
"Each member of the computer crime squad is given a list of local businesses
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Well, I see they don't read the news (Score:2)
Orifice De Pot doesn't read the news I see. Otherwise they'd know what happened to Wells Fargo when they pulled the same crap. On the other hand, why on earth would anyone trust Office Depot with a computer? They didn't fill my paper order correctly so I stopped using them. Hey, if you can't get paper right, why on earth would you expect me to believe you can get a computer right?
Been saying this for a *long* time... (Score:2)
They're just crap-ware accidentally installed by the user.
The biggest offender is Anti-Virus applications that interrupt system functions and slow the machine to a halt.
I haven't used anti-virus since Windows NT 3.51, and have yet to get a virus. Of course, I don't run as Administrator either.
In other news (Score:1)
Wells Fargo and Office depot decide to merge
They cite 'cultural compatibility' as a reason.
This would be deliberate fraud in UK. (Score:1)
Customers could advise and ask for criminal action against store employee and all store directors in UK if this was to push sales targets. However it would need a witness and the technical proof as recorded. Better to have new computer tested first , approach shop for help get their result and then test again. Thus incompetence or deliberate fraud.
Fake Viruses Found (Score:2)
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I love Micro Center, and have received excellent help from its sales people.
Having said that, it is possible to find an occasional idiot sales person in any store.
BUT - at Micro Center, you can always peel off the sticker when the jerk walks away.
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It's been more than a decade since I've frequented that store, so maybe it's changed for the worse. It was always nice to visit back when I lived near there. Never saw anything like that. I do miss that place, though. I'm probably 300 miles from a decent electronics store now.
Re: Best Buy too (Score:1)