Fearing Tighter US Visa Regime, Indian IT Firms Rush To Hire (moneycontrol.com) 184
From a report on Reuters: Anticipating a more protectionist US technology visa programme under a Donald Trump administration, India's $150 billion IT services sector will speed up acquisitions in the United States and recruit more heavily from college campuses there. Indian companies including Tata Consultancy Services, Infosys, and Wipro have long used H1-B skilled worker visas to fly computer engineers to the US, their largest overseas market, temporarily to service clients. Staff from those three companies accounted for around 86,000 new H1-B workers in 2005-14. The US currently issues close to that number of H1-B visas each year. President-elect Trump's campaign rhetoric, and his pick for Attorney General of Senator Jeff Sessions, a long-time critic of the visa programme, have many expecting a tighter regime.
"H1-B skilled worker visas" (Score:5, Insightful)
H1-B skilled worker visas
Depends on your definition of "skilled".
Re:"H1-B skilled worker visas" (Score:4, Insightful)
H1-B skilled worker visas
Depends on your definition of "skilled".
At 1/3 of the cost, it's rather irrelevant to those who do nothing but stare at the bottom line all damn day long.
With those kinds of demonstrated cost savings measures, even system outages perpetuated by a lack of skills are somehow justified.
Re:"H1-B skilled worker visas" (Score:5, Informative)
At 1/3 of the cost, it's rather irrelevant to those who do nothing but stare at the bottom line all damn day long.
With those kinds of demonstrated cost savings measures, even system outages perpetuated by a lack of skills are somehow justified.
This is the BS part of the H1B Fraud that is going on. If you look up the rules around H1-B one of them is:
You must be paid at least the actual or prevailing wage for your occupation, whichever is higher. [uscis.gov]
If this was being done legally, there would be no advantage to displacing the US workers; it would only be used for skills in short supply as it was intended. This law is being totally subverted by Infosys, Tata, WiPro and everyone of their customers that uses such replacements. I think that they would qualify for prosecution under RICO statutes.
Re:"H1-B skilled worker visas" (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't even need any changes. They just need to vigorously enforce that rule and the one about the skills not being available locally.
That's "available" without any qualifier or modifier, not "available at the wage they're prepared to pay".
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Already debunked. In theory at least - see Requirement 4.
https://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa... [uscis.gov]
As I said before, there's no need for any new rules - they just need to enforce the existing ones properly.
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No, it needs refinement. No fixed rate for minimum rate. Always a percentage above prevailing industry rate for the geographical area.
Also no Contracting or Staffing agencies will be allowed H1B visa applicants, only the company sponsoring them. No third party payment processing for the applicant to eliminate the slave labor practice that is going on now.
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The only way you even have a chance of ending H1B abuse is to guarantee it will never provide a cost saving measure vs existing or local talent.
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Re:"H1-B skilled worker visas" (Score:4, Interesting)
Doesn't even need any changes. They just need to vigorously enforce that rule
Sounds like you're talking about immigration law in general, that everyone is freaking out about on the left with our president-elect. The laws already exist, but what has been happening is "legislation" by the executive branch, by not enforcing law. Another example is the legalization of marijuana at the state level, when it's illegal at the federal level. I'm not attempting to open a debate on whether or not it is right or wrong that the federal government regulates it in the way it does (I am pretty adamant across the board that the Federal government has gotten way too strong and usurped too much power from the states), but what I'm saying is the inaction and lack of enforcement by the executive branch of laws passed by the legislative branch is a misuse of power and an imbalance in the three branches. This has been a problem with previous presidents, but Obama has taken lack of enforcement of law to another level. The judicial branch only gets to rule on cases brought before it, thus if the executive branch does not prosecute in the first place, the judicial branch is also totally removed from the picture.
So in other words, the left has been flipping out over the mere enforcement of existing laws, and the H1-B enforcement is just another example.
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Doesn't even need any changes. They just need to vigorously enforce that rule
Sounds like you're talking about immigration law in general, that everyone is freaking out about on the left with our president-elect. The laws already exist, but what has been happening is "legislation" by the executive branch, by not enforcing law. Another example is the legalization of marijuana at the state level, when it's illegal at the federal level. I'm not attempting to open a debate on whether or not it is right or wrong that the federal government regulates it in the way it does (I am pretty adamant across the board that the Federal government has gotten way too strong and usurped too much power from the states), but what I'm saying is the inaction and lack of enforcement by the executive branch of laws passed by the legislative branch is a misuse of power and an imbalance in the three branches. This has been a problem with previous presidents, but Obama has taken lack of enforcement of law to another level. The judicial branch only gets to rule on cases brought before it, thus if the executive branch does not prosecute in the first place, the judicial branch is also totally removed from the picture.
So in other words, the left has been flipping out over the mere enforcement of existing laws, and the H1-B enforcement is just another example.
It's hardly just the left. The right has big advantage with illegals being here too, as it is the business owners who are profiting from cheap labor. But really, the main culprit in both illegal aliens and marijuana examples will probably be budgets. Deporting all those people would take something like 20 years and half a trillion dollars. Trumps wall is estimated at 200 billion and that is just for a fence like one fifth the border already has, and doesn't include the cost of watching and maintaining said
Re:"H1-B skilled worker visas" (Score:5, Insightful)
These companies, and the companies that hire them, are performing an end run around the restrictions of the law that completely subverts the intent. Specifically, they do this by acting as a middleman, so that a company like Disney (http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/25/technology/disney-h1b-workers/) or SoCal Edison (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-edison-layoffs-20150211-story.html) doesn't actually 'replace' a US worker with an H-1B. Instead, they simply subcontract out the positions (or the entire department) to a company like one of these, who just happens to employ H-1B visa holders working at a cheaper rate.
This is the loophole that needs to be closed. These companies constitute the lion's share of H-1Bs, and make a mockery of the ones who are actually higher-paid expert workers in critical demand.
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There's plenty of other loopholes.
You post that you are looking for a "Software Developer II". With typical requirements for a Software Developer II. You then magically fail to find any qualified candidates by doing things like only contacting people who do not live in your state. So you hire an H1B visa worker at the going rate for a Software Developer II.
But a miracle occurred! The guy you hired happens to be qualified to be a Software Developer V. So you give him those additional duties. Yet he's p
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Re:"H1-B skilled worker visas" (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you even read?
From the link above:
"The prevailing wage is determined based on the position in which you will be employed and the geographic location where you will be working (among other factors)."
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They are not breaking the law. They look at a position advertised as needing 4-8 years experience with salary 70-90K as the prevailing wages. They will hire someone from India with 8 years experience at 70K. Over a period of 4 years his salary will rise to 90K. At that point he will probably have a GC EAD and move to a product company to do more valuable work and get paid more. The consulting companies are based on the precept that the work which is outsourced out does not increase in complexity every year
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HR does not have to recruit for every position. HR simply has to file an LCA which describes the needed position and the wage being offered. If the wage matches the prevailing wages the company can go ahead and file an H1B. There is no requirement to recruit locally. it would not work. If you need someone in October you have to file the H1 in April which means you have to do the hiring in February. Noone local will interview in February and then wait 8 months to join a job. H1s are filed for general positio
Which round are we one now? (Score:2)
Oooo, this discussion thread is going to be really amusing. Globalist vs Nationalist Debate Round Number ???
Quick get more popcorn!!!
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Maybe in general that is true, but when I was at UCLA, the Indians were the most badass as far as grades and ability to learn. It probably helped them that they came largely (exclusively?) from their top universities like IIT. US born Indian guys were more-or-less like everyone else, largely slackers :-). Yeah, I said guys, I can't recall any Indian females either native or Indian born in any of my classes.
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You might not like this, but IIT is only considered a top tier university in India. It has little to no reputation in North America / Europe. Most respected world university rankings rank it in the middle of the pack, along the lines of Iowa State and Oregon State.
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I don't mind, I guess having three of their campuses in the top 50 in the world makes them "middle of the pack" (#36 and #42). I know this, they are top tier in India, and presumably their top students made it to UCLA, thus they were more than competitive. Interestingly UCLA placed #16, which is nice considering we suck so bad at the football. This data was 2008 which is ok since I graduated almost two decades ago and so am talking about students in the past though not this exact year, obviously.
https://w [iitbombay.org]
Re: "H1-B skilled worker visas" (Score:4, Interesting)
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Exactly. were, not are.
The guys who did all that stuff are mostly dead or retired.
Re:"H1-B skilled worker visas" (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not the same regimen as 8 years of medical school, 4 years of residency, $300,000 in student loans and years of practicing before you earn that much. I know IT pros who legitimately make more than the salaries of senators, and still bitch about how much everything costs and how they deserve to earn more. The market is sorting itself out. There are others out there who can come in and offer a better value, so a better value will end up winning. To have the delusion that it's always because some asshole manager is trying to earn a bonus or pocket from a deal is just not a reasonable view of reality.
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... who expect to earn $200k a year when that isn't really feasible most of the time. The education requirements to become decent DBA will be a few years in a robust environment, plus a few months of courses, and voila!
It's not the same regimen as 8 years of medical school, 4 years of residency, $300,000 in student loans and years of practicing before you earn that much....
So you are saying that the only thing that should matter with pay is how hard it is to get "qualified" and years of experience (ie barriers to entry), not market demand, nor skill, ... that is a really screwed up world view.
What about the people who are naturally good at something. Some people will have more skill/intelligence/... than others several years their senior.
Under capitalism (even one as heavily distorted as we have), you are paid what you are "worth". If writing a good database can bring $200K/
Rushing to hire? (Score:5, Funny)
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Beat me to it, damn you. Mod parent up.
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true true, i guess US will just have to deal with the dregs of unskilled IT workers without qualifications other than a hastily procured certificate.
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bullshit... tell that to all the IT people at Edison Electric in California that got laid off, and forced to train their H1-B replacements.
"They're just doing the jobs that americans dont wan't to do"
Bullshit...
the actual quote is "They're just doing the jobs that Americans don't want to do at 40% of its valued wages"
go take an 60% paycut and come back to me with that crap you're sputtering. The people pushing for this shit is HP, Google, and Facebook. They don't think YOU should make $120k a year. They wou
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.... and yet you'd probably be the first to complain if we elected someone who wanted to tax the rich bastards at a 50% tax rate, which would benefit everyone.
That money could be used to feed the hungry, rebuild roads and bridges, pay for basic research that corporations no longer do, and help us pay off the crushing debt we are already under.
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... tax the rich bastards
Careful, you're revealing your ulterior motives (envy and greed).
... at a 50% tax rate
Golden rule: how would you like to be taxed at 50%?
... which would benefit everyone.
The fact that you are included in the "everyone" group did not escape my notice.
That money could be used to feed the hungry, rebuild roads and bridges ...
You're so altruistic when planning how to spend other people's money.
... pay for basic research that corporations no longer do...
Because IBM (just to name a single example) isn't filing huge numbers of patents and innovations every year, right?
Also, I like how vague and condescending your term "basic research" is.
... and help us pay off the crushing debt we are already under.
Or we could stop giving money to foreign governments, s
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Re:Rushing to hire? (Score:5, Informative)
The people pushing for this shit is HP, Google, and Facebook. They don't think YOU should make $120k a year. They would rather pay an H1-B $40k/yr.
Lacking identifiable sarcasm in the parent's post, this fact is not lost upon a single American IT worker today.
Meanwhile they make 7 and 8 figure salaries. Make THEM take an 60% paycut if you're going to fucking cut someone's pay.
Uh, you DO realize the reason they can pay themselves 7 and 8 figure salaries is due to the fact they've demonstrated considerable "cost savings" by outsourcing the shit out of the IT department, right?
In other words, fat fucking chance of them stopping the very activities that feed and justify their obscene salaries and bonuses.
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Dillards corporate headquarters only hires H1-B visa workers for their IT dept. CEO salary last year was $500,000,000.
One would think he could have gotten by on only$498,000,000 and kept the American jobs, but nooooooo. Somebody like that has no conscience.
Exactly the reason legalities need to come into play.
We sure as hell can't rely on morals or ethics to keep this shit in check.
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There is no moral obligation to pay someone more than someone else who is willing to do the same work for less.
Quite true. So how much do Indian CEOs cost these days?
Salaries should be determined by the free market.
How ironic we label the market that somehow justifies a $500 million-dollar CEO salary as "free".
The government should only step in on salary regulation if there is some greater good served by said regulation (like, for example, ensuring that the country has a solid supply of internal top-tier technical talent, so as to avoid being left behind in the tech race).
The greater good in this case would be the qualified and skilled American IT workforce.
Nobody is ever morally entitled to a high salary. Not the CEO, and not you.
Now that we've beat a horse named Moral to death, perhaps we could focus on his twin brother Ethics. As an US employee, my company certainly seems to demand I do...
Re: Rushing to hire? (Score:4, Insightful)
But as long as you want the superior conditions found in the US to exist, if for no other reason so that you can benefit from the economic power of selling to the fat US market, you'll need to pay US level salaries to the workers in your US level market. You believe in the free market? The free market is ethic and moral free leverage, squeeze, blackmail do whatever it takes to gain no matter who you burn. Well, the US is an organization with massive economic power and it is just as free to leverage it to the benefit of local workers as companies are to leverage their size and ability to absorb the impact of any one worker being fired to take advantage of staff in employment term negotiations.
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Dillards corporate headquarters only hires H1-B visa workers for their IT dept. CEO salary last year was $500,000,000.
One would think he could have gotten by on only$498,000,000 and kept the American jobs, but nooooooo. Somebody like that has no conscience.
Did you just go all Donald on us? 500 million US dollars?
Yes, he makes more than the rest of us combined, but give the hyperbole a break [morningstar.com], shall we?
40K is under the H1B min but there are ways (Score:2)
40K is under the H1B min but there are ways around that. We need to enforce the laws on the books and have away for workers to reports abuses with out being kicked out or being fired.
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They should have to pay more than the market wage for an H1B. That would kill off the abuse of the program fairly quickly.
I'd mod this up if I had points. This is exactly the issue. My proposal: tariff the H1B so the sponsor pays 120% of US landed resource rate and see how many H1Bs are actually required. This isn't about skill. This is about skill at the rate companies think they should have to pay for it and it artificially skews the pay rate downward. I'm all for H1B in its intended form but right now it's an easy ticket to cheap, indentured labor.
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They should have to pay more than the market wage for an H1B. That would kill off the abuse of the program fairly quickly.
Only if you could find a way to actually enforce it. I make about 30% more than at least one coworker with the same title as me. And if I look at coworkers without a Senior or AVP prefix to their title, the discrepancy grows. It would certainly not be easy to craft legislation which stops workers from being hired for intermediate software developer positions with software architect level responsibilities. If my company hired an H1B employee to replace me at $100k, they would save a lot of money but still ap
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Take Trump seriously, not literally. The sky isn't falling Democrats.
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And his apostrophe usage.
Re:Rushing to hire? (Score:4, Informative)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
Dude I wish we could dual mod you as funny and informative! ;-) LOL!
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No jobs were outsourced. A function was outsourced to a company and it was upto TCS to decide what kind of staffing to use to execute the program. Those Disney workers could have applied for jobs with TCS. They preferred not to and instead preferred to make it an issue of foreigners taking our jobs. The only way to make them happy would be to specify that anytime a company outsources a function the vendor needs to hire all the employees doing the job currently. Of course there would not be any cost savings
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No the H1-B should be revoked because there was no shortage of US workers at the site when the H1-B was granted. IE in two states at the same time.
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While that may be one of the drivers, the whole idea behind outsourcing is that a company let out something that is not a core function of the company, but is needed for its operations. Like Acme Capital, Inc. could have Burger King run their cafeteria, or have PwC audit their books. In other words, they outsource those operations to those companies, so that they don't have to deal w/ the headaches. Saving money is a bonus that they expect as a result of it.
In the above case, it is illegal to hire some
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shocking. its basically a criminal conspiracy.
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Except qualifications can include pay level.
I don't know about "can include"... it seems apparent that accepting a ridiculously low salary is the main qualification.
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Except qualifications can include pay level. Importing labor when there is a shortage artificially deflates the cost of labor, keeping wages down.
Not to mention, last time I checked, Disney had a qualified IT department filled with American workers. they chose to lower costs by importing labor.
It's a scam designed to screw over workers in the country by using temporary, indentured labor.
Take a look at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] for more about how the scams are run.
Qualifications do not include pay level, or else, 2 laws would contradict each other. The H1B visas require that the imported worker work at prevailing wages pegs them at a level higher than that of the people who work offshore. If a company wants to pay its workers the Indian rate, they need to have them work remotely from Bangalore/Hyderabad/Gurgaon/Pune
What "Fresher" Means (Score:2)
A "fresher" is someone who is cheap to hire because they don't know sh*t.
Most of the Indians in my US-based grad program self identify as "freshers". The professors all but beg them not to cheat.
Uneven (Score:5, Insightful)
An article in the LA Times [latimes.com] describes how un-equal our trade deals are in terms of professions. Doctors and lawyers are protected from much offshoring & visa workers due to various laws and trade agreement exceptions, for example.
There's no reason law and medical schools couldn't be set up other countries to train remote and visa workers on US law and medical practices. But our rules arbitrary limit or exclude those schools.
You want cheaper ACA? make outsourcing and/or visa-ing doctors easier. Otherwise somebody who used to make $25/hr at a factory and now making $9 as a Walmart clerk has to pay $200 an hour for a doctor. One is zapped by globalization and one protected from it, creating a huge discrepancy between their service rates. Of course medical care goes up for such people. It's not ACA's direct fault.
If the impact of globalization is spread around more evenly, then perhaps life won't be so difficult for those subject to globalized careers: their wages may go down, but so will their cost of living as others' wages also go down.
Trump may be a babbling blowhard, but he has focused attention on this issue. Let's do it right this time: Spread the "love".
However, something tells me the heavy lobbying money of those professions will buy protection. Blue-collar workers don't have the equivalent counter-bribing force. Lawyers and doctors won't accept a cut without a heavy fight. The rich simply have more weapons.
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Blue-collar workers don't have the equivalent counter-bribing force.
They most certainly do, but it looks like they didn't choose the winners in the election this year:
https://www.opensecrets.org/or... [opensecrets.org]
Carpenters & Joiners Union : Democrats = $23,278,997, Republicans = $436,816
Laborers Union: Democrats = $21,409,886, Republicans = $459,250
Service Employees International Union*: Democrats = $12,645,476, Republicans= $1,600
Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers: Democrats = $10,507,556, Republicans = $159,818
AFL-CIO: Democrats = $10,634,478, Republicans= $187,200
Plu
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It could be that way first because most polls projected H would win. You want to influence the likely winner. Donations are not necessarily intended to finance campaigns, but to buy influence, and to do that you want to pay the likely winner.
Trump also baffled the political managers of such organizations who would make those decisions, being T is such a different (non) politician. He was a wild-card that many didn't know what to make of. He won mostly the angry/revenge vote, and those in management of such
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It could be that way first because most polls projected H would win. You want to influence the likely winner.
Fair enough, but the list doesn't look that much different for the 2012 and 2008 election cycles. The Unions have traditionally been heavily Blue since Reagan's first term.
https://www.opensecrets.org/or... [opensecrets.org]
https://www.opensecrets.org/or... [opensecrets.org]
User e432776 below posted that blue collar workers "have been leaving unions for decade". (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm). There are plenty of reasons for this, but part of it could be that the Union leaders aren't getting the message that their members d
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Republicans often threaten to limit unions, which is rare with Democrats. Maybe their actions differ than their words
I think the latter part is what's driving some of this. Union members don't feel as if the current administration has been doing enough to help (regardless if that's true or not). My father has been a member of the United Steel Workers for the larger part of his life. Earlier this year he was telling me about the amount of backlash he saw at their chapter meeting when the union representative recommended that they should all vote for Hillary.
I don't think they outright leave unions, but rather union-oriented industries are dying
This is one of the "plenty of other reasons" as well, and defin
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Except for service employees international most of the people represented by those unions make over 100K/yr and are solidly in the 10%ers.
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Re:Uneven (Score:5, Insightful)
Doctors and lawyers are protected from much offshoring & visa workers due to various laws and trade agreement exceptions, for example.
Mostly it's because the regulatory bodies for those professions are made up of...wait for it...people in those professions, and they are often statutorily empowered to make rules and often adjudicate problems. So the medical board is run by doctors who, surprise, surprise, rig the rules in their favor and limit qualification for their trade which has the effect of limiting the labor pool.
In some ways it makes total rational sense, because why wouldn't you want doctors, who best understand the practice of medicine, setting the rules and standards for who can practice medicine?
On the other hand, the fox is in charge of the henhouse. I had a friend get horrible dental care. In so much pain, he pretty much randomly selected the closest dentist he could get into on short notice and dentist 2 was horrified at the work. Dentist 2 documented everything wrong and what he did to fix it, solving my friend's problems. He submitted a claim to the dental board against Dentist 1 -- only to have the claim rejected as unsubstantiated. And why not? If a bunch of dentists gets to decide what complaints are legitimate, why wouldn't they reject a claim against a fellow dentist, even if another dentist provides documented clinical proof?
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We already have professional regulation for engineers with the PE licensing system, requiring a PE to sign off on a lot of critical engineering.
I doubt it would be a panacea, I've worked with engineering companies on projects and most of the engineers, while degreed in engineering, were not PEs, and despite being actually college educated in the discipline often approached design issues worse than IT people with minimal formal education.
I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen PE-style requirements for compute
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trump is a republican (at least that's the party he belongs to) and those guys HATE workers and workers rights.
I expect nothing to change as long as rich guys who run things get all the say in this country. workers have not had a say in decades and with an ALL R set of 3 branches of government, nothing will improve for the working guy. nothing.
but the conservates had their 'stigginit' so there's that, I guess (deep sigh).
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you really have drank the coolaid if you think any member of congress is for workers and workers rights. Do yourself a huge favor and avoid the bullshit mantra that dems are somehow behind the working man. They just pander to get their money. In 2008 they controlled half the supreme court, the executive branch, and all of congress. If there was a chance to do ANYTHING for the constantly shrinking middle class that was 4 years they chose to sit on their asses and pretend everything including tropical storms
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So your solution to one group getting fucked by globalization and outsourcing is to fuck everyone else so we're all reduced to the same shitty level playing field?
Why don't we just stop everyone from getting fucked by globalization and outsourcing?
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I hear that's partially already happening. More foreign doctors are being hired. X-Rays are sent over the Internet to India for analysis. Even pharmacy workers are being replaced with H-1B visa workers.
This shit can't last.
Lots of foreign doctors have entered the US over the past 30 years. There is a dedicated pathway for this. Some of the are OK, lots of them are pretty marginal. The marginal ones tend to go into marginal residency (post doctoral) programs and turn out to be marginal docs. Some of them end up pretty competent. You'll find many MD / DO job postings that cater to FMG s (Foreign Medical Graduates) because they're in places that US trained docs don't want to go (downtown Baltimore, NE. S. Dakota) and even t
Trivial to stop the abuse (Score:5, Interesting)
It seems trivial to stop the abuse: Stop the lottery and replace it with a list ordered by salary and give the visas to the applicants with the highest salaries. This would make hiring H1Bs expensive and limit their use to hiring rare very talented foreigners.
At the moment H1Bs are broken: The lottery often prevents bringing in highly talented people, while it doesn't matter too much for companies that just want a random cheap semi-skilled person. They just fill a lot of extra applications to get enough H1Bs granted.
make the min 100K-120K on W2 and maybe X2 OT (Score:3)
Make the min 100K-120K on W2 and maybe X2 OT at 80 hours a week.
Also cap the number of them at on corp so they can't all be channeled thought some staffing place.
Re:Trivial to stop the abuse (Score:5, Interesting)
This is indeed a good solution, though it may have to be weighted depending on the area, otherwise Silicon Valley will get all the H1-Bs.
But yes, those three Indian IT companies are the one abusing the system, and it is their fault if H1-Bs are so hard to get. They prevent other companies from legitimately bringing foreign talents by flooding the system.
So of course they're fearing it won't work long, and I hope it will be the case. I don't really trust Trump to do this smartly, but if at least they can fix the H1-B system, that would be an interesting achievement.
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Some weighting depending on area could be a good idea, but needs additional measures to prevent abuse. Otherwise consulting companies will apply for H1Bs in a cheap area with very low wages and then move people to silicon valley soon after the visa has been granted. It also seems a good idea to give more H1Bs to areas with higher wages as these often indicate real shortages. Stricter limits on working hours are also needed, otherwise companies will cheat the system by paying a high monthly salary that is ac
The Big Lie Exposed (Score:5, Informative)
Since they now are speeding up the hiring of skilled U.S. IT workers, there must not be a shortage to begin with. There by exposing the Big Lie.
How will Facebook, Apple, Microsoft now react?
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Honestly, they're so big that they'll likely just set up off-shore programming centers in India and not worry about the H1-B visa program. I really don't think it'll affect the corporations TOO much. It will affect the smaller/mid size IT groups that aren't prepared to deal with the hassle of off-shore.
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If there really were a shortage of skilled IT workers in the US, then companies including Tata Consultancy Services, Infosys, and Wipro would not be able to hire anyone and would need to import such workers. Since they now are speeding up the hiring of skilled U.S. IT workers, there must not be a shortage to begin with. There by exposing the Big Lie. How will Facebook, Apple, Microsoft now react?
Actually, those companies are now looking at college graduates, since that's the lowest cost workers they can get anywhere within the US. Since the H1Bs would be regulated in some way, they are looking at the cheapest US workers that they can find - entry level people who can be molded in the corporate culture.
Just that from now on, off-shoring IT would have to be done for logistic, rather than financial reasons
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and cisco and intel and juniper and and and ...
any company with its own building in the bay area is probably close to 90% h1b filled.
I was at cisco recently and english was rarely heard in the hallways. those that move here and live here usually speak english even if its their 2nd language. 'guest workers' could give a flying fuck and never even try to fit in to the local culture.
its not a good situation. as someone who was passed over for many jobs, for many years, I would love to see the h1b program fu
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Auction system (Score:5, Interesting)
An auction system may reduce riff-raff and "shortage" BS.
Have a base cap, such as 30,000 skilled visa positions a year, for example. Maybe have another 30,000 slots, but corporations have to bid against each other for them. If there is truly a shortage, they will pay a high wage for them, and select them for actual skill instead of for cheaper bodies who work long hours because they have no family etc. They wouldn't bid on actual people, just the salaries. And perhaps tax some of that to help pay down the national debt.
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Or you could just eliminate it. Besides there's another visa program (EB-1) that can be used.
The EB (employment based immigrant visa) program is basically one of the many ways to get a green card. Generally, before you get the a green card, you cannot work in the USA. Given the limits on the issuance EB green cards, the wait times are in the years so it makes this path pretty much intractable for companies hiring people (unless you are a big multinational company that is willing to employ someone in another country while you wait).
The H1 visa program started as a non--immigrant visa for people work
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Silicon Valley able to cope with Trump regime? (Score:3, Interesting)
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Anyway, as I see Apple being pressured to bring back jobs to US (yeah, lots of luck with that)
My understanding is that this is less to do with possible pressure from the next administration and more to do with the massive counter-fitting problem they're dealing with
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The 2 big issues is the massive number of illegals living here (probably a lot closer to 30 million, not 12 million; last time, stats got it all wrong)
And then the huge misuse of H1Bs.
The solution is to add more visas for position based, as opposed to family based, while solving the illegals and remove the H1Bs.
In addition, for the position based green card, the pay needs to be at least AVERAGE for that position (no less), while the taxes are do
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So you are worried about rich people in SV that attempted to bribe the candidate who would write the regulation in their favor in order to screw the US workers.
no, I was simply asking about what will happen with many of these companies. Regarding rich people, many SV residents that are getting pushed out because of high cost of living would be happy to see many such as Google, Apple, and FB leave the area.
I don't have such a jaded view of the visa program (Score:2)
I worked for about 9 years in one of the big banks, managing software testing teams.
We uses infosys and TCS quite a lot, about 75% of my teams were from there - either offshore (India), nearshore (Mexico), or onshore (US).
One of the reasons we used them was because they were flexible.
Our teams were dependent on what projects got funded and got put on our roadmap. So we could have a project that needed to be staffed up in a month, test for 3 or 4 months, then either dissipate or roll onto another project.
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So, you are saying that these big banks were unwilling to maintain adequate staff and due to decisions made at the beancounter level, you were left having to staff and destaff continuously. You talk as if these decisions were forces of nature but are in fact perfect examples of why US corporations are fundamentally evil. What they needed to do was staff up adequately and then phase the work in so the necessary crew got to the work when they scheduled it.
Your now small team is made up of work visa holders
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Yes, you pretty much summed it up.... the way money moved around internally based on projects/business need/unknown forces was staggering. It was a machine, and I don't really know who was driving it.
I am at a different company now, and my team is all non-visa employees. I am hiring and using the company recruiter, who basically posts the jobs, fields resumes, and seeks out local people on linkedin. We actually don't want to have to deal with hiring people on visas, but that seems to be the majority of p
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Not exactly.
1. it wasn't my decision, I was working within the system of the machine
2. we had some of these flexible contract workers there for many many years. That is the thing.. their jobs were actually more secure than some employees, because they worked for the consulting agencies. And the agreements were that we couldn't hire them as employees. (that's how those agencies survive)
Fsck 'em. (Score:2)
This is the IT version of sending manufacturing jobs overseas. While I was not a "rah rah buy 'Murican" I agree that certain things must be built here. Or in their country of origin. Seeing my projector from Panasonic say "Made in China" is as sad as seeing a "Made in China" on the back of my iphone, my monitor, and some of my speakers - Klipsch - which USED to be built in Hope, Arkansas. Some models still are, but not the affordable stuff.
So no... I will not shed a tear for these Indian companies, nor
They're not temps (Score:2)
What are great US graduates missing? (Score:3)
The students can get security clearances, know the USA well and work hard. They have a deep understanding of systems and networks.
What is missing from the mix of students the US educates every year? Are the top % of every year lacking something that every US university cant/won't teach and every US profession wants?
Have academic entry standards become so lax that very average students are been given top degrees for some reason? Making decades of US grades useless to any US profession?
Has US academic work drifted so far from what the best US brands and firms need? What are US students doing for a few years then?
Loans for a few years of campus in a holiday, party like setting? Scholarship not based on merit? Selected STEM but funding goes to arts and sport?
Why does the USA need to fly in, look after, hire and even grant citizenship later to very average workers from other nations?
What are other nations doing with education that can totally outclass every US student for generations?
Do other nations have some merit based Gymnasium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org], Institute of technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] schooling?
Do other nations have merit based public school exams, schooling that only helps the very best students for decades?
What has happened to US exams and merit based advancement that cant offer US brands and firms what they need?
Sessions' role (Score:2)
President-elect Trump's campaign rhetoric, and his pick for Attorney General of Senator Jeff Sessions, a long-time critic of the visa programme, have many expecting a tighter regime.
One concern is that one has is that Jeff Sessions has been made Attorney General, instead of Secretary of Homeland Security, which oversees ICE and USCIS. So whether the US will be strict or not will depend not on Sessions, but rather, on the guy who heads DHS
I wish Sessions had been given DHS, and someone else the AG.
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> One concern is that one has is that Jeff Sessions has been made Attorney General, instead
> of Secretary of Homeland Security, which oversees ICE and USCIS. So whether the US
> will be strict or not will depend not on Sessions, but rather, on the guy who heads DHS.
Doesn't the Attorney General have power to prosecute law-breakers? If there is hanky-panky going on with H1B workers, he would be able to make things tough for their employers.
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What I don't get is - what's the rush? It's legal to hire US students, or college graduates. Even if they are foreign students on F1 visas, they can use them for a year on OPT. This aspect is one where Trump does want them to stay on, unlike in the case of the import of foreign workers. So they can hire OPTs and then ask Trump to do something to make them permanent residents. Of course, students of US colleges - be they American or foreign - will have no reason to prefer them to other US employers who
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Is this the kind of text that sets off a bot-net that has been lying in wait somewhere?