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Businesses The Almighty Buck

'Quit Your Day Job Is Garbage Advice' (cnbc.com) 227

Posted by msmash from the do-the-smart-thing dept.
An anonymous reader shares an article: While Daymond John was building his clothing line FUBU, which would evolve into a $6 billion brand, the entrepreneur was living on the tips he made waiting tables at Red Lobster. "I was working at Red Lobster for five years as a waiter as I was running this business," the Shark Tank star said at the iConic conference in New York City on Wednesday. At first "it was 40 hours at Red Lobster and six hours at FUBU. Then it was 30 hours at Red Lobster and 20 hours at FUBU, because money started to come in." Even after FUBU started to take off, John continued waiting tables. He wouldn't do things any differently if he could, he told the audience on Wednesday: "Don't quit your day job. [...] Let's say I was making an average of $40,000 a year," he continued. "After five years, that's $200,000 of salary. I would have had to sell $1 million more worth of FUBU product to bring home the $200,000, but I didn't have to do that. I just had to sacrifice time."
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'Quit Your Day Job Is Garbage Advice'

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  • Good advice if you work at Red Lobster (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mykepredko ( 40154 ) on Friday June 09, 2017 @02:06PM (#54586355) Homepage

    Anywhere else... not so much.

    A few points why bringing up a start up at Red Lobster works over basically any other kind of job:
    1. You can pick your hours and change them on a moment's notice.
    2. It's not brain heavy work. You can keep the start up as your primary focus.
    3. You don't have to worry about your employer accusing you of using their resources (and IP) to start a business.

    It actually makes a lot of sense to get a job working at Starbucks/Red Lobster/serving food anywhere when doing a start up to ensure that the rent isn't something you're worried about and you can put that extra focus on the startup.

    • But if your day job is coding, you can work on your startup code at your day job. Even if your boss walks by, he is just going to see a screen full of code, and assume you are working hard. I did this for six months, and then right before I quit I got a glowing performance review and a raise. They never realized what was actually going on.

      • Re:Good advice if you work at Red Lobster (Score:4, Insightful)

        by farble1670 ( 803356 ) on Friday June 09, 2017 @03:35PM (#54587007)

        But if your day job is coding, you can work on your startup code at your day job. Even if your boss walks by, he is just going to see a screen full of code, and assume you are working hard. I did this for six months, and then right before I quit I got a glowing performance review and a raise. They never realized what was actually going on.

        So basically you were stealing from your employer for 6 months. Bravo!

        Maybe your mommy never taught you this, but rule as to whether an action is moral is not whether you can get away with it.

        • But if your day job is coding, you can work on your startup code at your day job. Even if your boss walks by, he is just going to see a screen full of code, and assume you are working hard. I did this for six months, and then right before I quit I got a glowing performance review and a raise. They never realized what was actually going on.

          So basically you were stealing from your employer for 6 months. Bravo!

          Maybe your mommy never taught you this, but rule as to whether an action is moral is not whether you can get away with it.

          You are abusing the word "stealing" much like the MPAA/RIA do. Was he being underproductive? Absolutely! Was he stealing? Not without stretching the definition into extra-dimensions, twisted loops

    • It may make sense to hang on to your day job. But first of all, this guy wan't successful because he stayed at his job. If your startup isn't of the variety that you can slowly grow while revenue starts trickling in (like his); if it's more like the usual startup that requires a lot of hard work and attention up front, and a lot of time spent greasing palms to bring in some capital, then the statement "quit your day job is garbage advice" is garbage advice. To be honest I've seen more startup fail becaus

    • Re:Good advice if you work at Red Lobster (Score:5, Informative)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 ) on Friday June 09, 2017 @03:01PM (#54586729)

      1. You can pick your hours and change them on a moment's notice.

      I'm guessing you never worked in food service if you are saying this. While it's true these types of jobs offer some scheduling flexibility, they certainly don't let you pick your own hours or change them at a moment's notice. At most restaurants shifts are usually scheduled a week or so out and if you don't like it you better find someone to trade shifts with or you are most likely SOL.

      • I got yelled at because the manager didn't understand me when I told her what day I was quitting, to go to college.

        I basically told her, "I can work until next Friday, but then I'm done." She thought I meant two Friday's from then. So, on my last day, I got yelled at when I told her I wouldn't be there for the scheduled shift on Saturday.

      • Worked at a bar through University. Never a problem swapping shifts - just don't be a dick and be willing to help other people out when they want to swap.

    • From the article and the post, it seems better idea to get a Night job for IT Guys working helpdesk from 5-1 sleep from 2-10 your business from 11-4, and work on your business during the day. You won't have free time, but 5 hours a week to get your company going can be good until you can justify yourself working full time.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by farble1670 ( 803356 )

      1. You can pick your hours and change them on a moment's notice.

      Ah, so you've never worked in a restaurant (or probably in the service industry at all).

      You don't get to pick your hours. Restaurants need staffing at particular hours. If you decide not to work at your scheduled time, they are screwed and you won't be around for long. Clearly he didn't do that if we worked there for 5 years.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Shotgun ( 30919 )

      A better job is a night time security guard position. For the most part, you are required to sit at a desk, and most jobs allow you to read.

      • For that very reason I sometimes really miss my old night shift security job. Being able to read a book for 75% of my working hours was very nice.

    • Spoken like someone who never worked in a restaurant in their life.

      Unless you know of waitresses that get done with their 8+ hour shift of walking for miles and carrying the equivalent of a bag of cement half the time, who then smile and put on their dancing shoes.

  • "I just had to sacrifice time." (Score:4, Funny)

    by Immerman ( 2627577 ) on Friday June 09, 2017 @02:08PM (#54586365)

    Because everyone knows money is far more valuable than time...

    • Time is money.

      It's fairly easy to convert time to money, provided you have a job, of course.

      It's pretty hard to do it the other way 'round. And the few times you can, it tends to be expensive. Ask Steve Jobs how it worked out for him.

      In other words, when you have the choice, sacrifice money instead. It's cheaper.

      • Time is money.

        But, I learned in Volunteers [wikipedia.org] that money is money [imdb.com]:

        Chung Mee: Speed is important in business. Time is money.
        Lawrence Bourne III: You said opium was money.
        Chung Mee: Money is Money.
        Lawrence Bourne III: Well then, what is time again?

      • The advice is obvious anyway. You can't work for your startup if you don't have money, and you won't have the money without a day job or a mentally deficient venture capitalist. The day job is easier and more honest.

      • It's dismaying how few people really make the connection - can't tell you how many times I've had variations on the conversation of "Would you work X hours at your job in trade for thing Y? No? Then why would you pay X hours worth of paycheck for it?"

  • And free food. (Score:3, Funny)

    by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Friday June 09, 2017 @02:10PM (#54586375) Journal
    He probably got to eat for free, and take home left overs and feed rest of his family too. Saved money definitely. Only compromise is having to agree that what Red Lobster dishes out is food then have the gumption to eat it.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 )

      He probably got to eat for free, and take home left overs and feed rest of his family too. Saved money definitely. Only compromise is having to agree that what Red Lobster dishes out is food then have the gumption to eat it.

      Yes, because that's totally how it works at big chain restaurants...

  • Suvivor Bias (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FFOMelchior ( 979131 ) on Friday June 09, 2017 @02:10PM (#54586379)
    Most billionaires probably have garbage advice, once you separate out the survivor bias. That said, this tidbit makes more sense than most.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Never listen to advice from billionaires. They hate competition.

      • Arnold Schwarzenegger use to give bad advise (Score:5, Informative)

        by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday June 09, 2017 @03:44PM (#54587067)
        to his competitors. When he was competing the competitions were pretty friendly and it didn't occur to anyone he'd lie to them. He gave them a routine that was massive overwork. They tried to stick to it and of course burned themselves out.

        What's the old saying? Never ask a man how he made his first million. Odds are if someone didn't inherit it or win the lottery they did something awful to get it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kjella ( 173770 )

      Most billionaires probably have garbage advice, once you separate out the survivor bias. That said, this tidbit makes more sense than most.

      Well, if you can work you day job and run your own side business successfully and still have time for friends, family, love interests, hobbies etc. because it's still 24 hours a day. I mean it's great if you can kick start it that way without making a leap of faith, but I think a lot of successful college dropouts would say the dedication was necessary. It's hard to say in retrospect that it wasn't, it's easy to say in retrospect that you just built brick upon brick for the few who manage to do it that way.

    • I've always liked comedian Bo Burnham's advice [youtube.com]. He clearly gets it.

  • it's not IF you quit your day job it's WHEN (Score:5, Informative)

    by green1 ( 322787 ) on Friday June 09, 2017 @02:19PM (#54586435)

    The summary says you shouldn't quit your day job, but obviously he did because he doesn't still wait tables at Red Lobster. It's about WHEN you quit your day job.

    This will be a fairly personal decision, but a bunch of factors come in to play. first of all, if you can't survive on the money your startup is providing, then obviously you need to keep your day job. And once you can make more money running your own company than spending that same time at your day job, it's a no-brainer to quit to focus on your startup. The real challenge is the in-between states, and that's going to depend on your opinion of your existing job. Is it something you enjoy? and does it provide you the flexibility to work on the other project that you're passionate about? in that case stick around. Is it something you despise? Do you absolutely detest going to work each morning? is it interfering with your passions? In that case it may be worth taking a pay cut to work on your startup.

  • Have a day job that pays the bills and work a side business that brings in cash flow.

  • also, Never follow your passion.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by slew ( 2918 ) on Friday June 09, 2017 @02:23PM (#54586453)

    Never follow your passion, but always bring it with you. -- Mike Rowe

    https://www.prageru.com/sites/... [prageru.com]

    There are only two things I can tell you today that come with absolutely no agenda. The first is “Congratulations.” The second is “Good luck.” Everything else is what I like to call, “The Dirty Truth,” which is just another way of saying, “It’s my opinion.”

    And in my opinion, you have all been given some terrible advice, and that advice, is this:

    Follow your passion.

    Every time I watch the Oscars, I cringe when some famous movie star—trophy in hand—starts to deconstruct the secret of their success. It’s always the same thing: “Don’t let anyone tell you that you don’t have what it takes, kid!”; and the ever popular, “Never give up on your dreams!”

    Look, I understand the importance of persistence, and the value of encouragement, but who tells a stranger to never give up on their dreams, without even knowing what it is they’re dreaming? How can Lady Gaga possibly know where your passion will lead you?

    Have these people never seen American Idol?

    Year after year, thousands of aspiring American Idols show up with great expectations, only to learn that they don’t possess the skills they thought they did. What’s really amazing though, is not their lack of talent—the world is full of people who can’t sing. It’s their genuine shock at being rejected—the incredible realization that their passion and their ability had nothing to
    do with each other.

    Look, if we’re talking about your hobby, by all means let your passion lead you. But when it comes to making a living, it’s easy to forget the dirty truth: just because you’re passionate about something doesn’t mean you won’t suck at it.

    And just because you’ve earned a degree in your chosen field, doesn’t mean you’re gonna find your “dream job.”

    Dream Jobs are usually just that—dreams. But their imaginary existence just might keep you from exploring careers that offer a legitimate chance to perform meaningful work and develop a genuine passion for the job you already have. Because here’s another Dirty Truth: your happiness on the job has very little to do with the work itself.

    On Dirty Jobs, I remember a very successful septic tank cleaner, a multi-millionaire, who told me the secret to his success:

    “I looked around to see where everyone else was headed,” he said, “And then I went the opposite way. Then I got good at my work. Then I began to prosper. And then one day, I realized I was passionate about other people’s crap.”

    I’ve heard that same basic story from welders, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, HVAC professionals, hundreds of other skilled tradesmen who followed opportunity—not passion— and prospered as a result.

    Consider the reality of the current job market.Right now, millions of people with degrees and diplomas are out there competing for a relatively narrow set of opportunities that polite society calls “good careers.” Meanwhile, employers are struggling to fill nearly 5.8 million jobs that nobody’s trained to do. This is the skills gap, it’s real, and its cause is actually very simple: when people follow their passion, they miss out on all kinds of opportunities they didn’t even know existed.

    When I was 16, I wanted to follow in my grandfather’s footsteps. He was a skilled tradesman who could build a house without a blueprint. That was my passion, and I followed it for years. I took all the shop classes at school, I did all I could to absorb the knowledge and skill that came so easily to my granddad.

    Unfortunately, the ha

    • Mike Rowe seems to be an all-around great thinker and explainer. Wish he were my neighbor or something.

  • it demands both your time and mental energy. You will never be able to put the time and energy you need to invest into that new enterprise if you are working 40-50 hour weeks at something unrelated. Making something new succeed take work, lots and lots of real, multiple hour per day work. Very few people are capable of spending 20 hours a day running at full speed. Those who can succeed by doing so are the outliers, not the standard.

    The only way you will ever have enough time and energy to put into a career

  • Hell, most entrepreneurs that I know are putting in a minimum of 60 a week and its usually closer to over 70 hours a week.

  • I wrote my first novel while working 60/week (Score:5, Funny)

    by netsavior ( 627338 ) on Friday June 09, 2017 @02:41PM (#54586567)
    I was working as a software developer on a very demanding project, pulling 60+ hours a week most weeks while I wrote my first novel.

    It was a long process, and it was very hard, and yes I had no free time between my money job and my passionate speculative job.
    As time went on I finally finished the book, and sold thousands of copies.

    I am proud to say that today I make 6 figures a year...





    ...as a software developer, because that's my real job and nearly every novelist who ever lived didn't make a living at it, and it is important to have realistic dreams.

    • That's an awesome achievement. You should link the book.

    • Hey, me, too! Work as an engineer during the day, get to pretend I'm an author at other times. I think I've sold 200 copies, total, of two different books self-published on Amazon.

      It's an avocation, not a vocation. I'll buy a copy of yours if you buy a copy of mine [amazon.com]... Life would be a lot different if I had to depend on the book income.

  • I've seen enough Shark Tank to notice that the other judges are always saying "I can't invest with you because you don't believe enough in your idea to quit your day job" or "you're not 100% committed to this when you're not doing this full time."

  • Bullshit advice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Friday June 09, 2017 @02:49PM (#54586619)

    Like any from anyone who "made it big". And it's not even that they try to deceive and mislead you because they don't want you to succeed.

    Any time one of those self-made billionaires tells you how he made it and what to do, you're essentially listening to someone who won the jackpot in the life lottery telling you the numbers he played. At the same time, you could ask a thousand people who didn't make it who will tell you exactly the same, but they just didn't have the luck to be at that right place at the right time that this guy was.

    That what he did worked for him at that time when he did it is obvious. Just like playing those numbers on that day worked for the lottery player. You will not reliably repeat this by doing the same, for this too many variables changed in the game. Even if there was no FUBU today, opening a chain like this today would fail simply because the market changed and there is no longer the amount of young people with expendable money, just to name one factor that makes or breaks this business.

    • Ignoring the idea that whatever these billionaires did might not work for anyone else, what they did actually worked out for them. The counterfactual is that if they didn't do these things they wouldn't have their success. Hard to say, but because the odds are very long, I suspect that these elements were important *to them* even if it tainted by selection bias. Call it a mini-anthropic principle of sorts... Isn't that what they say about the lottery. You can't win if you don't play.

      Of course the enviro

  • That's great if you can work 70-80 hours a week (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday June 09, 2017 @03:10PM (#54586801)
    Most can't, and then get told they're a failure as a human being when they can't. The worst thing is lots of them believe it. That's where the race to the bottom starts.
  • At the craps table, I only stand on my left foot, and I only talk in the third person, and I've won lots of money, so it should work for you too.
  • The end result is being a net worth of $300M [bankrate.com]. Who cares about a measly $200k for giving up that many hours of your life? 20 hours a week over how many years to increase your net worth by 0.06%? No thanks.

  • He's right... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I've been part of several failed startups, plus a couple of very successful ones. The ones which failed the most spectacularly were the ones which had very early injections of seed money. The ideas were certainly viable, but the problem was that the investment took the immediate focus off of making money. Of course that was partly the point of the investment, to focus on development, however it was a strategic and grave mistake. In all cases, whenever the investments dried up, the ventures had to go out

  • mykepredko speaks the truth! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    And I am not his mom or his best bud.

    Startups are simultaneously a lot of fun and as depressing as shit because most of you (99.9%) will fail and by the time you admit that you're burned out and lost all confidence. If you don't have something to put the breaks on you'll keep hacking even though your smarts and quality of work turns to shit and you don't realize it.

    In the morning your brain is fresh, but by late in the day your brain has turned to mush anyway. A job without much responsibility is a

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