'Black Friday Is Dying' (fastcompany.com) 290
A reader shares a report: For years, Black Friday signaled the beginning of Christmas shopping. The day after Thanksgiving was a frantic day of driving to the store at the crack of dawn to fight off other shoppers for great deals. For people who truly hated the ritual, I have some good news for you: Black Friday is going away. That's according to data from GPShopper, which tracks consumer behavior. It turns out, customers are really not into Black Friday. A full 81% of us feel stress surrounding the notion of Black Friday, and 45% of us believe it is the most stressful time of the year. And with online shopping, consumers are increasingly realizing they don't need to do all their shopping on one day. The majority would prefer to shop in the second week of December. Weirdly, a full 12% of consumers would prefer to shop after Christmas, to capitalize on the post-holiday sales, even though their recipients would get their presents a little late.
We are going to celebrate Festivus (Score:5, Funny)
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Some christian cultures, celibate Christmas on January 6th, as it is traditionally considered the Epiphany (the time where the 3 Magi had offered the gifts of Gold, Incense and Muir) so the aspect of sharing gifts during this time seems more appropriate.
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>celibate Christmas
Admittedly it's mostly a cheery-but-sombre holiday and usually focused on the kids... but if it's going celibate I'm not going to observe Christmas any longer!
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Pretty sure the song 'Oh cum all ye faithful' has that covered.
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(the time where the 3 Magi had offered the gifts of Gold, Incense and Muir)
The scripture does not specify a number of Magi, it only specifies a number of gifts. It is implied that there were more than one, but how many more is not stated. Could one Magi have brought multiple gifts? Could multiple Magi have brought the same gift?
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Maybe they pooled resources and several kicked-in money to buy one gift.
Re:We are going to celebrate Festivus (Score:4, Funny)
Then there was that one Magi who said "Hey, can I sign my name on the card and say that myrrh is from me too?"
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(the time where the 3 Magi had offered the gifts of Gold, Incense and Muir)
The scripture does not specify a number of Magi, it only specifies a number of gifts. It is implied that there were more than one, but how many more is not stated. Could one Magi have brought multiple gifts? Could multiple Magi have brought the same gift?
There are 3 in the nativity, it has to be true. It's right there in the Town Square!
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(the time where the 3 Magi had offered the gifts of Gold, Incense and Muir)
The scripture does not specify a number of Magi, it only specifies a number of gifts. It is implied that there were more than one, but how many more is not stated. Could one Magi have brought multiple gifts? Could multiple Magi have brought the same gift?
There are 3 in the nativity, it has to be true. It's right there in the Town Square!
Someone should ask Santa, he was there. On December 24th of the year 1, he delivered the baby Jesus. Then they rode away on the back of a dinosaur I'm told.
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Some christian cultures, celibate Christmas on January 6th
It's mostly Armenians. I thought it was all Orthodox Christians that celebrated it on that day due to sticking with the Julian instead of Gregorian calendar. It turns out Dec. 25 on the Julian Calendar is Jan. 7, and it's only Copts & Ethiopian Orothodox that celebrate it on that day. Most other Orthodox churches have moved to the Gregorian calendar and celebrate on Dec. 25 now.
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Russian Orthodox as well.
I always thought there were advantages to living in a multi cultural environment - Regular Christmas, Russian / Eastern Orthodox Christmas, Hanukah, Solstice and probably a couple of others.
Be sure and collect them all!
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Honestly, the only reason Chanukah is such a big deal for Jews is that Christmas is around the same time and Jewish kids wanted to get presents also. So the "8 days of presents" was invented. You're not really supposed to give gifts on Chanukah. Actually, our gift giving holiday is Purim (around March) where we dress in costumes, give gifts, and are religiously commanded to get drunk.
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(around March) where we dress in costumes....and are religiously commanded to get drunk.
I thought that was an Irish Catholic holiday.
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Actually, our gift giving holiday is Purim (around March) where we dress in costumes, give gifts, and are religiously commanded to get drunk.
I didn't know about this but I'm going to start doing this with my girlfriend. We can take the day off, get drunk, and exchange little gifts. March needs a holiday badly and I love drinking.
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Actually, our gift giving holiday is Purim (around March) where we dress in costumes, give gifts, and are religiously commanded to get drunk.
Sounds like being Jewish is more fun. So can just anyone sign up?
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In all seriousness, when it comes to conversion, Judaism is the exact opposite of evangelical Christianity. Where evangelicals will go out and try to convert all non-believers, Jews push potential converts away. (This comes from the story of Ruth where Naomi was heading back to Israel after the death of her sons. Her non-Israelite daughters-in-law wanted to come but she refused three times. One daughter-in-law returned to her parents, but Ruth persisted and stayed with Naomi.) We will turn potential convert
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Not sure I'm ready for that much commitment. I think I'll just get drunk that day and call it good.
On another note, I just picked up the 3 books of yours I could find on Amazon. Look forward to reading them. From the plot summery they look interesting.
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I looked up your book and clicked on the Author name and the top 3 books are by "Jason Levine." Oh well. I've added all 3 to my to be read pile. All 3 of them look interesting.
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Some christian cultures, celibate Christmas on January 6th
It's mostly Armenians. I thought it was all Orthodox Christians that celebrated it on that day due to sticking with the Julian instead of Gregorian calendar. It turns out Dec. 25 on the Julian Calendar is Jan. 7, and it's only Copts & Ethiopian Orothodox that celebrate it on that day. Most other Orthodox churches have moved to the Gregorian calendar and celebrate on Dec. 25 now.
In Spain they celebrate Christmas on the 25th and Epiphany on the 6th, the latter being the more important date, it seems. Epiphany is also celebrated in Austria, Colombia, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland, Ethiopia (but on different date that varies annually), parts of Germany, Greece, Italy, Slovakia, Spain, and Uruguay with national holidays.
Other countries actually celebrate Christmas itself on Jan. 7th (sometimes starting on Jan 6th with Christmas Eve), and Epiphany (if they celebrate it) 12 days later, on J
Re:We are going to celebrate Festivus (Score:5, Funny)
No idea but I'm pretty sure it will be integrated into the next version of systemd.
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on January 6. Problem solved.
I have very close Ukrainian friends with whom I've spent Xmas several times which is on Jan 7th. So anything I buy for them is at a discount.
Good. (Score:3)
SSIA.
Not a very good poll (Score:5, Informative)
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Black Friday was never a majority event.
It always seemed like some kind of marketing gimmick that someone invented. As far as I can remember, it wasn't really a thing when I was a kid.
I mean, the day existed. It's not like after Thanksgiving Thursday went straight to Saturday. People sometimes referred to it as "Black Friday", but it was more of a bit of trivia that some people were aware of. A lot of people happened to spend the day after Thanksgiving doing their Christmas shopping, since, for a lot of people, it was going to be their last
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The one and only time I stood in a Black Friday sale line was in 1998. Zelda:OOT had been released on Tuesday for pre-orders, but wasn't available to walk-ins until Friday. The local Target store had 17 copies in stock. I showed up at 6:00 AM for a store-opening of 7:00 AM. There were maybe a dozen people in line, and I took my place. Everyone else was hyped up about winning a car or something. The first 25 people would get a key that might (but probably wouldn't) start that car! By the time the doors opene
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I went once...we were spending Turkey Day with family in Vegas, and since we don't have Fry's at home I decided to hit the one there.
It was out at the far end of the Strip, past the airport, and they were using the desert as overflow parking. There was a line to get INTO the store...noped out of there in a heartbeat.
Re:Not a very good poll (Score:5, Interesting)
You are off by decades. The term 'black Friday' was used starting in the 60s. It was used not by the retailers, but the police, who used it to describe the incredible traffic jams and crowds that occurred on that day. The day after Thanksgiving crowds were already a thing in the 1950s. It was indeed 'a whole big thing' way back then. I don't know when the special sales started, but they were certainly in place when I worked at a department store in the 70s. We had to be there at 4AM to retag all the merchandise before the store opened at 6AM (instead of the usual 10AM),
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The sales themselves were around for a long time. But it wasn't until the late 90s that I heard the term used to advertise them.
I never heard that about the police though. I always heard it was a term the retailers used internally as it was the day the majority of them turned a profit on sales for the year. Going from being in the red to being in the black.
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Black Friday is for the extroverts, who wants to feel the rush of the season hit them like a brick, be around people and come up with what seems to be interesting stories to tell people.
Still even before the days of online shopping, a lot of people would do their shopping after a couple of weeks after black Friday where the stock has been replenished, and the crowds are more festive, and less aggressive.
I think part of the problem today, is that the stores have been aggressive in their sales and marketing,
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Because the #1 American sin is to purchase something that isn't the best value. Why do you think people are so angry at the $1000 iPhone, it is because they want it or something similar to it, but cannot justify the cost especially compared to its competition, they can afford it, but it isn't the best deal. And if they get it then they have made a bad purchasing decision. Which is really Bad! Even though the product may bring enjoyment to their lives for a good deal of time.
I understand what you are saying, but "best value" is an interesting turn of phrase because, for example, you are suggesting that a $1000 is the best "value."
These people don't care about value, they care about impressing their friends with the latest gadgets from the top name brands.... impressing their friends is more important than value; elevating themselves in their own mind is the priority... the psychology is that owning something better somehow makes them better. The short term elation is more impo
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Which brings up the point. I am not suggesting that the $1000 iPhone is the best value. Because Value is very personal. There is value in impressing your friends, especially if you are a teenager, where their social status is very important to them, if they have the fancy iPhone X while their friends have the less impressive iPhone 8. It puts them one notch in their social status, because they have the better thing. Now if their friends were solid Android Users, the iPhone would outcast them, but if they ha
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he said it had to be an iPad model because that's what her friend had.
Unless you want to be on the hook supporting it, go for the iPad and let her ask her friend for help. This is worth the extra money.
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Pretty sure the OP meant "minority" the mathematical sense - "the smaller part or number; a number, part, or amount forming less than half of the whole" rather than referring to the standard US understanding of racial minorities.
Good job going off half-cocked, though!
Was that an attempted pun? (Score:2)
Pretty sure the OP meant "minority" the mathematical sense - "the smaller part or number; a number, part, or amount forming less than half of the whole" rather than referring to the standard US understanding of racial minorities.
I think the poster may have been trying to make a pun on "black" Friday = "African-American" Friday.
It's kinda hard to tell, though
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Re:"dedicated minority" meaning African Americans? (Score:5, Informative)
I'm pretty certain he meant uninformed tight-arses, not a specific race.
The kind of people who don't realise two things.
1. There is a time cost. Spending 6 hours to save 20% often isn't worth it. Not to mention the cost of fuel.
2. Prices are raised in preparation for the holiday sales, then dropped less than that amount for black Friday.
Savvy people buy this stuff off peak when meaningful discounts are offered to keep stock moving (January or just before the end of the financial year in your nation). Many of us have just given up on stores entirely because we get better prices online. Especially for stuff that goes into stupid prices around Christmas like toys and games, what little of this I had to buy for relatives, I bought months ago.
Fairly certain a savvy black or Latino would have done the same thing. I'm not smart because I'm white, I'm smart because I actually thought about things and planned ahead.
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Not to mention available stock and buying other items not on your list. "I'm going to the store to get $100 off this TV. Oh, wait, there were only 5 in stock and I was the 10th person. I guess I'll buy this other TV instead since it says it's $50 off. Oh and might as well grab these things also."
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SHHHHHHH,
No-one tell him it was just basic comprehension and common sense. Any reading of the GP's post that is indistinguishable from telepathy is insufficiently competent.
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I'm pretty certain he meant uninformed tight-arses, not a specific race.
Wow, your telepathy is amazing. Tell us how you can read minds like that! Judging by your weird nonstandard spelling, you come from a country without the legacy of Jim Crow, and thus have no idea what you're talking about. Pro TIP: shut the fuck up when you want to say anything about racial issues you have no idea about.
At the risk of unveiling my awesome lexical abilities to the unwary, "black" day is typically associated with a catastrophe, not a race. Looking around it seems it was first used to describe bad traffic conditions in start of the Christmas shopping season. [wikipedia.org]
the terms "Black Friday" and "Black Saturday" came to be used by the police in Philadelphia and Rochester to describe the crowds and traffic congestion accompanying the start of the Christmas shopping season.
And yes, I come from a country where institutionalised racism wasn't a thing in living memory. This isn't something I'm particularly ashamed of and maybe you should take your own advice when talking about things you clearly have no knowledge of.
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I thought it was called Black Friday because it was the day that the accounts of most retail companies would no longer be "in the red". Referring to accounting practice of marking losses/profits in ledgers in red/black ink.
Re:"dedicated minority" meaning African Americans? (Score:5, Interesting)
When you use the term "dedicated minority", are you referring to African Americans and Hispanic Americans?
No, we're referring to the dedicated idiots living in tent city outside a Best Buy for a week to get $150 off a TV. That kind of stupidity is not bound by race.
It's also rather disrespectful for you to say that they "have nothing better to do that day". They most likely would rather be working one or more of their multiple jobs, trying desperately to make ends meet.
Really? Most of the shit I see the Black Friday dedicated idiots standing in line for is not what poverty would define as "essential", so spare me the rhetoric about making ends meet. If they were that desperate, they wouldn't be giving up 3 days worth of income to stand in line for a fucking video game console.
Poverty means you're shopping at the second-hand store, garage sales, or goodwill, which will always beat the shit out of any store sale, and certainly doesn't require anyone to wait for Black Friday.
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It means that you can't just go out and buy clothing and other essential items whenever you want. It means that you need to budget, save your money, and buy when the price is right, even if that means waiting a long time.
I thought that in reality, it's exactly the opposite for poor people - for necessary items at least, you can't "wait until the price is right" since you can't save the money, there's always something to be paid ASAP.
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It doesn't matter that it's mostly(*) cheap crap. If a laptop is otherwise not affordable to someone, and they can find a full Windows laptop for $130 (that's an actual Dell deal on an existing model this year, not a made up cheap crap model) that their kids can do homework on, that they can do online banking and job searches on, then it's still worth it.
(*) It's true that the majority of offers, especially on electronics, seem to be for items that are not normally available at those stores from manufactur
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And all of those "poor" people don't seem to have any problem finding plenty of money to buy liquor, cigarettes, lottery tickets, crack, weed and other "necessities".
You seem to know a lot about "all of those 'poor' people." Don't believe everything you read on Breitbart.
Weirdly? (Score:5, Interesting)
>Weirdly, a full 12% of consumers would prefer to shop after Christmas, to capitalize on the post-holiday sales, even though their recipients would get their presents a little late.
That's not weird. The whole thing is stupidly inefficient - the stores have to stock up and get temporary workers for a month or so, customers have to cram into those stores during that month, and a premium is put on everything to cover the extra expenses plus the whole 'this could be it until next December' mentality.
On the other hand, I'm pretty much done with the whole 'consume consume consume' thing. Neither I nor any of my family or friends NEED anything, and we have everything we could reasonably want. None of us are starving. None of us lack a book to read or a game to play.
A gift is something I have to find space for in my house. A gift is something I'm going to think about how wasteful it was to have produced, shipped, and eventually recycled (or thrown in the dump).
At best (or worst?) I just want to get a little token trinket for someone, and fighting traffic and a crowded mall just to pay a premium for one doesn't appeal. And all the stores around here do 'Boxing Week' sales, with big bargain-hunting crowds pretty much fading in the first day. Damn right I'm going shopping after Christmas, at least for those I won't see until January anyway.
Re:Weirdly? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm fully on board with Christmas for adults being shared meals and drinks (especially for people you feel you don't see often enough), but a lot of supposed adults aren't all that sensible!
I know a lot of people who think gifts are mandatory, followed by endless rounds of 'who appreciated it more', and noses out of joint if enough thanks isn't received. Blech.
Re:Weirdly? (Score:5, Interesting)
Gifts can simply be food or wine or something like that. Most sensible adults give those type of gifts when giving to other adults.
This is why my wife and I are happy not giving each other gifts for events in the traditional sense. I may never buy her a piece of jewelry or clothing during our entire marriage, unless we are both shopping together. But we do get tickets to theater or sporting events near birthdays and anniversaries as a present to ourselves. This makes holidays and other special events far less stressful.
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Fuck you Dad, I want more stuff. Stop telling me what I need and don't need because you're fucking cheap.
Re:Weirdly? (Score:5, Funny)
Go to your damn room, and no backtalk or I'll take away your video games.
And what the hell were we even thinking, naming you "Anonymous Coward"? It's at times like this I wish your mother swallowed.
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A few years back I told my friends not to get me anything for xmas. If they really must then a card is acceptable, but no gifts.
It's a big load off. No need to rush around buying extra stuff for people, trying to get through shops that are 50% seasonal crap. Not having to do that is actually the best possible gift they can give me.
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If you have any sort of salaried professional job, then "having everything you want" is mostly a matter of adjusting your wants. (Not to minimize the ruinous cost of Exchange health care plans in the states where there's only one provider left - those can screw anyone).
think for yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
Sour Grapes? (Score:2)
Black Friday shopping, going to the store to wait in line to stampede some store for sale items, isn't really going away. It's just changing form. Retailers have realized that online sales are the most cost effective way to go, so things are morphing to online "deals" and away from brick an mortar, break the doors down at 1AM.
BUT, at this point, I'm guessing the numbers being seen as evidence for this article's conclusions isn't fully understood for what it really means. Christmas spending has been large
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Agreed, I don't see any evidence it's "going away", in fact, the opposite: just in the past few years, we've seen the videos of massively overcrowded stores and malls opening at 4am or earlier where people are going apeshit and resorting to fistfights over limited items.
It's madness. I'd much rather shop from the comfort of home; namely Amazon, or in some cases, even eBay. Or, at least, wait a few days. I'm maybe lucky that there's almost nothing I really need to get on a Black Friday on sale that I can
Well yeah... we wait till Cyber Monday. (Score:5, Insightful)
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We have a general rule of no shopping in the mall after the second week of November (sometimes earlier). The crowds are just too much to deal with when we can just load Amazon.com, order things, and have them delivered in 2 days instead.
It's dying because the sales aren't very good (Score:2)
Re:It's dying because the sales aren't very good (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no room to slash prices anymore. Competition is so stiff that the margins are already razor thin. In the pre-internet times stores could easily afford slashing 20% because of their 40% profit margins, but today?
Which is GOOD. Instead of being gouged the whole year, you get a better price now all year long.
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What about the margin on thin razors?
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Dollar shave club showed the margins are high, but even they are getting pricier.
Good, it serves it right. . . (Score:2)
black-friday, never done it, never will (Score:2)
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'Black Friday is Dying' (Score:5, Insightful)
And nothing of value was lost.
Without Black Friday, (Score:2)
and all of those mob scene stories on the news, how will the rest of the world know that the Thanksmas season, (or is it Christgiving? I can never remember), has started in the US?
Skipping Christmas is not "weird" (Score:5, Informative)
It's sensible.
Who in their right mind would WANT to go buy stuff at the same time everyone else does? Whether that's Black Friday or Christmas in general. If anything, online shopping will do, but I will certainly NOT spend my time in a warehouse around this time of the year.
First, the obvious: It's a surefire way to get sick. And I'm not even talking about the thousands of people who can't be assed to cover their snouts when sneezing or coughing. It's the insane temperature differences that kill me. Outside it's freezing. So you dress appropriately. But shops feel that compelling urge to turn their sales floor into a Finnish sauna. So you're sweating like a pig. Only to go back outside to be frozen solid. Abso-fucking-lutely great for your health.
Then a billion people pushing carts and throwing stuff about. with at least as many tripping hazards in tow called children. But dare to punt one of those little pests out of the way. Loud, obnoxious and, not least for the aforementioned sweating, smelling like a rotten egg sandwich.
And finally, when you think you ALMOST made it to the end, the inevitable line before the cashiers. A million people lined up in front of ONE SINGLE DAMN checkout booth. Staffed with the trainee, of course, so you have plenty of time to decide you absolutely need one of the impulse buy items, accompanied by the sweet sound of whistle buys that throw tantrums because their parents refuse to buy said impulse items.
You really want to know why we are fed up with this? Are you seriously asking?
Speaking as someone who.... (Score:2)
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Ah yes, I remember it well. It was back in 1929. In those days, Black Friday fell on a Tuesday.
"45% of us believe" (Score:3)
That would be 90% of women, and 0% of men.
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I bet he was a trans-man. (Or woman; I keep forgetting which is which...)
Bull (Score:2)
"was a frantic day of driving to the store at the crack of dawn to fight off other shoppers for great deals. "
Just like the other 364 days, we now shop online on Black Friday.
No fights and we can sit on the couch in our underwear, just like any other shopping day.
Is it really dead? (Score:2)
Or does it just smell that way?
Of course it's dying (Score:2)
It's a hold-over from pre-IT revolution days (Score:2)
Now we have just in time sequence, just in time inventory. Before computers stores and chains built up inventory chains that were comparatively inflexible and communications were slow. Moreover feedback on pricing was slow. Now stores have their warehouses floating in containers at sea and overland via rail and trucks. Theres simply no big build up of stock.
Dead Since the 90s (Score:2)
Black Friday died in the mid 90s when the masses got their mitts on the world wide web.
There used to be actual deals (and freebies) worth getting, and you had a decent chance of getting them if you showed up when the store opened.
Today you have to fight to the death to get a chance at a "good deal" on last year's off brand TV model or $50 off a router that's fundamentally broken out of the box and is EoL so you'll never get firmware updates from the manufacturer, etc. And you have to do it all on Thanksgiv
Isn't there a rule, (Score:2)
Isn't there a rule for headlines that proclaim "X is dying"?
Like the rule for every article that asks a question means the answer is "No" ?
It's there own fault... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Weirdly? (Score:5, Insightful)
>Newsflash: most people are not Christians.
There are two Christmases - ecclesiastical and secular. One's about going to church to hear about Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, and the other is about telling kids a magic fat man is watching them and will sneak presents into their home if they're good, erecting a Christmas tree, putting lights up on your house, having a few lunch or dinner parties, and exchanging gifts.
I know atheists (hi there!), Jews, and Muslims who all celebrate the secular version of Christmas to varying degrees. It's just a winter solstice celebration, and in a northern climate you want one of those when things are grey and dreary.
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Re:Weirdly? (Score:4, Funny)
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You know, as a kid I didn't understand that Hanukkah and Christmas were different holidays. Then as I got older I came to understand the difference.
Then I got older still... it turns out kid me was onto something because yep, it's a celebration held close enough to the winter solstice. The supposed reason doesn't really matter when it boils down to the same time of year and underlying purpose (family / friend / clan /whatever bonding).
It's not what I meant when I said I knew Jews and Muslims who celebrate
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Well, that settles it then. Obviously your personal experience is representative of everyone else's and my friends are figments of my imagination.
Or you're an arrogant idiot; I'm going with that one.
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I'm Jewish and our "Christmas" celebration is seeing the latest Star Wars movie and then going out for Chinese food. Much better than any red-suited home invader any day!
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Baloney. I am Jewish and I don't know any Jews who celebrate Christmas. I doubt any Muslim or Hindu celebrates Christmas.
My Jewish sister-in-law celebrates Xmas. My Muslim wife does as well. You just need to expand the number of people you know.
Yaz
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Canada has some great boxing day sales.
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Newsflash: most people are not Christians.
Yeah -- some people are...Canadians.
Traditionally the big sale season in Canada has always been the Boxing Week Sales immediately after Xmas. This is the time to get next years wrapping paper and decorations ultra-cheap, and to pickup the stuff Santa didn't bring you for a discount. For many households, it was both the time to stock-up for next year, and to get some big ticket items when they were cheap.
For the last several years some chains have been trying to push "Black Friday" sales in order to compet
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From the constant complaints about Christmas, the shopping, lights, war on it, 33% feels about right.
Re: Black Friday is growing, not dying (Score:5, Funny)
#BlackFridaysMatter
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#AllFridaysMatter
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First yo!
*third
But it was the first "yo!"
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Free HDTV boxes? I'm going to Walmart right now!
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Buy them 100K Dogecoin each. Who knows what will happen within a decade?
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By treating workers like garbage
And let me add "treating customers like garbage."
Most customers don't want to bail on Thanksgiving early just to go shopping - but will anyway and resent it. But that's when the sales have moved to. Move them back to Friday morning and both customers and workers are happier about the whole thing.
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I bought my last TV about 5 years ago. And the best deal was about 2 weeks before Black Friday. At least $50 less than the Black Friday price.