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Bitcoin The Almighty Buck

Bitcoin Nears $17,000 After Climbing About $4,000 in Less Than a Day 464

As economists attempt to make sense of Bitcoin, the cryptocurrency rocketed above $17,000 for the first time moments ago, adding about $4,000 to its price in fewer than 24 hours. Security reporter Brian Krebs tweeted on Thursday, "Closing in on $17k per bitcoin now (mind you, it was almost at $16k less than an hour ago. This is totally fine." Late Wednesday, finance author Ben Carlson wrote: Bitcoin has achieved something I've always wanted to see in the stock mkt - a reverse 1987 (20% gain in a single day)

Bitcoin Nears $17,000 After Climbing About $4,000 in Less Than a Day

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  • by Luthair ( 847766 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @10:59AM (#55695387)
    "Rational"? Really? I do not think it means what you think it means.
  • So... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Kierthos ( 225954 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:00AM (#55695397) Homepage

    This is going to crash hard, and probably fairly soon, and people will react with "We could not have foreseen this at all!"

    And I will be over here, laughing at them.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by MouseR ( 3264 )

      I still dont understand how anyone gives any value to that.

      Is there a CryptoFraud For Dummies available?

    • This is going to crash hard, and probably fairly soon, and people will react with "We could not have foreseen this at all!" And I will be over here, laughing at them.

      The Winklevoss twins won't be fooled again!

    • Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by devman ( 1163205 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:19AM (#55695535)
      Knowing it will crash, and knowing when it will crash are two very different feats. Saying it will crash is practically axiomatic, and in the mean time if your sitting on the sidelines you may have missed opportunities that may have led to profits even if you held through a crash.
      • I don't have 17 large handy and free to spend on a cryptocurrency today. I didn't have 12.5 large handy and free yesterday, to buy that same one Bitcoin.

        So, I'm going to sit back and laugh. Because someone out there (likely more than one someone) is gambling foolishly on continued value jumps. Yes, some people stand to make a tidy profit on this. Some people are going to stay on this a little too long. Sure, that's a danger with the stock market too, but the stock market typically does not fluctuate this mu

        • by MrDozR ( 1476411 )
          You can buy any fraction of a Bitcoin on most exchanges, you don't have to go all in and buy ONE.
        • by devman ( 1163205 )
          You can buy in at any fraction of a BTC, you don't have to buy/sell a whole bitcoins. Just watching the ticker on GDAX you can see there are a lot of trades sized less than 0.1 BTC.
          • Re: So... (Score:2, Troll)

            by Khyber ( 864651 )

            Plenty of exchanges have a minimum buy in. Trades are not buy-ins. Please retake basic stock market classes.

            • Please retake basic stock market classes.

              Why ? Bitcoin is not a stock, and the Bitcoin exchanges don't function like stock markets.

              • by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @12:46PM (#55696409)

                Why ? Bitcoin is not a stock, and the Bitcoin exchanges don't function like stock markets.

                If you are buying bitcoin hoping it will appreciate in value relative to the dollar then it is a secondary market and as such it functions almost identically to a stock market as a practical matter. Bitcoin is just an asset like gold or beenie babies or pork bellies or frozen concentrated orange juice. Any discussion about the "value" of bitcoin is by definition in relation to how many dollars you can get for it which is no different than asking what the current price of a stock is in dollars. Stocks are assets and so is bitcoin.

            • I don't know of any minimum for Coinbase. I know you can buy a lot less than 0.1 BTC (because I did). Assuming CB hasn't crumbled under the traffic.

              • by mysidia ( 191772 )

                It doesn't make sense to buy so little that the amount you get is dwarfed by whatever the fees are.
                Minimum buy is a POLICY of whatever service you are using AND your own good sense to
                buy at least enough that you have a useful transaction that the fees aren't a significant fraction of.

            • Re: So... (Score:5, Informative)

              by devman ( 1163205 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @12:17PM (#55696105)

              Incorrect.

              You can literally deposit $170 to GDAX (coinbase) right now (if it were not crashing) and buy 0.01 BTC, there is no minimum to open a trading account on coinbase.

              To trade on equity markets you could go open an account with Fidelity, Schwab, or Robinhood (if app only is your thing) right now with no minimum and go trading to your hearts content.

        • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

          It's like any other investment or gambling, some people win and some people lose.
          If you'd bought yesterday and sold today you'd have made a decent profit, who knows where the price will go tomorrow. It's fun to watch.

          I hold a small number of bitcoins, had them for a long time and didn't pay anything for them so i'm waiting to see where the price goes, but even if it crashes i won't make an overall loss.

      • This is a good point. If you had bought two weeks ago, you could cash out now and be quite ahead. Even if you had bought at 9K you'd be doing well. The problem is that most of us don't have that sort of money sitting around. And at this point, it seems like quite the gamble to try and buy in. However I thought that when it hit 9K as well, so what do I know.
        • Re:So... (Score:4, Informative)

          by religionofpeas ( 4511805 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:40AM (#55695759)

          The problem is that most of us don't have that sort of money sitting around

          1 Bitcoin is internally represented as 100 million basic units (the "Satoshi"). You can buy any number of Satoshis, so it's possible to buy 0.001 coins for instance.

        • You don't need "that sort" of money. I don't have anywhere near 1 bitcoin, and at this rate probably never will, but what I do have is worth a lot more than when I bought it. Whether that will still be true by the time I get home this evening is anyone's guess. :p

      • It will crash before that Parabola goes to Infinity. And the "missed opportunity" logic you present if why the Greater Fool Theory is governing it. Are 4 Surges enough to cause it like a rat plague? If so then it'll happen soo. But if not it'll happen as it approaches Infinite for obvious reasons.
      • Except when you look at how it can crash.

        What happens when the value drops x%? Transaction volume goes up. How quickly will those transactions be added to the blockchain? Who controls that process? Currently the blockchain is at just under 500k transactions per day, and appears to have a significant backlog in confirming transactions.

        The hype looks like it is posed to last a bit longer, but some people are really going to get caught with their pants down the way I see it; there is no easy de-escalation

        • by devman ( 1163205 )
          Exchange transactions occur off chain. Only when you take BTC off the exchange does go to the block chain for recording.
    • Re:So... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by MikeDataLink ( 536925 ) <mike@mur[ ]net.net ['ray' in gap]> on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:25AM (#55695605) Homepage Journal

      Every market will crash. Event the best investment will go south if you wait long enough. There are no horse and buggy companies anymore. Eventually grows and then fades.

      The only thing that matters is getting in and out at the right time.

    • 3 to 6 months maximum. The higher it gets before the crash the more painful it will be. I just hope it's not big enough to hurt outside of its ecosystem.
    • Re:So... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:46AM (#55695815)

      Or bitcoin could go to $1,000,000. I am a financial advisor and given how technologically amazing bitcoin is and how it is the future of all money, I'm betting on it hitting $1,000,000 before the end of 2018 and selling ALL my gold bullion, penny stocks, and tulip futures to put into bitcoin and I am now advising all my clients to do the same.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by syn3rg ( 530741 )
      "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future."
      --Yogi Berra
    • It's crashed loads of times but the underlying trend, underneath all the booms and crashes, still appears so far to be exponential.
    • It has a Tulip-Bulby feel to it, doesn't it?

      LK

    • Re:So... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Hal_Porter ( 817932 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @12:35PM (#55696291)

      People complain [slashdot.org] when I mention Tulip Mania, so instead I will tell a joke

      Jeremy Sloan asked his son Michael what he'd like for his upcoming sixth birthday. Michael said he wanted a hamster, so Jeremy visited the local pet shop and found the perfect hamster. The little guy was in the peak of health, so he bought it on the spot. He also bought a cage with a wheel, some food and a water bottle. As he was paying for the birthday present, the store owner said, "Any problems whatsoever, just come back here. I live right above the shop and I'll help you out any time you want."

      Jeremy put the hamster and cage in his car and drove home. He left them in there until his son had gone to bed so that he wouldn't see them when he brought them in. Michael's birthday was the next day, so Jeremy got up early to wrap the presents and to check on the hamster. He was horrified to see the hamster was dead at the bottom of the cage; it's legs stiff in the air. He knew his son would be distraught as the boy had talked about nothing else for weeks. Quickly, Jeremy put on his coat and drove round to the pet shop and knocked on the owner's door. He explained the problem and the owner was quite understanding and gave Jeremy a new hamster, refusing payment for it

      Jeremy asked, "What can I do with the old one? I don't want to bury it as the cat may dig it up and I don't want to throw it away in case my son sees it in the bin"

      The shop owner replied, "What I do is mix up a strong sugar solution - about 1.5 kg of sugar to a litre of water. Bring that to a boil and then add the hamster. Simmer it about two hours, stirring periodically. It makes quite a nice jam."

      Jeremy looked a little bewildered, but says thank you and raced back home. He gave the new hamster to Michael who was absolutely thrilled with it. He dashed off to play with it the rest of the day. Jeremy decided it was a good time to get rid of the dead hamster, so he tries the pet shop owner's recipe. He finds the sugar in the pantry and brings the water to a boil. After a couple hours, the mixture has become jam-like so Jeremy takes a spoonful, blows on it till it's cooler, and tastes it. It's absolutely disgusting. He's so revolted that he throws the rest of it out the kitchen window, into the flower bed below

      A couple days later, Jeremy noticed that daffodils were springing up under his kitchen window, right where he tossed that awful concoction. "That's odd", he thinks to himself, "I've never had daffodils before"

      Next day, his son asks him to take him to the pet shop to get some more food for his hamster. So Jeremy and Michael go to the store, and while Michael is looking at new hamster toys, the owner asks Jeremy, "Did you try that recipe I gave you?"

      "Yes, but it tasted so awful that I threw it out the window. Odd thing is, I've got daffodils springing up there now."

      "Daffodils?" asked the store owner, "Are you sure? You usually get tulips from hamster jam.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • In 3...2...1. Then, watch the currency go into free fall.
  • will doop when some trys to cash out a big chunk also even just 1 coin will trigger lot's of IRS paper work.

  • Ah, the old Cliffhanger game. [youtube.com]
  • by xavdeman ( 946931 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:04AM (#55695433)
    I'm buying popcorn stocks. Everybody's going to want to grab some when Bitcoin crashes.
  • by houghi ( 78078 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:05AM (#55695445)

    As the increase is exponential, the moment I am going in is now. Just put all my belongings into it as well as maxed out my cards and took several loans. This is my ticked to become rich.

    With my calculations it will reach 150.000USD in two weeks. There is no way I can lose money. Right?

    • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:16AM (#55695503)

      Your scenario is unlikely, but possible. It would not surprise me if you were destitute in two weeks, and it would not surprise me that you are going to wish you actually did this. It would surprise me if nothing happened at all though.

    • It would by no means surprise me if a lot of people already did that.

      Consider: Loan interests are at an all time low, reaching 1% in some cases. Per anno. Here you can get 20% interest. Per day.

      You think there aren't already people who started gambling everything they have and then some with the idea "just a few days and I'll have enough..."

  • by mikeabbott420 ( 744514 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:06AM (#55695447) Journal
    it seems the expense of transactions is making them useless for their actual purpose. for the hundredth time I'm declaring that the end is nigh :)
    • Well, yeah. I mean, according to https://www.coindesk.com/price/ [coindesk.com] it's gained over $2000 in value today. But it could just as easily drop $2000 in value tomorrow.

      When it fluctuates that much in the short term, there's much less incentive for businesses to use it.

      "Oh, I accepted this fraction of a Bitcoin as payment, but it just dropped so much that I lost money."

      - or for the holders of Bitcoins -

      "Oh, I just spent that fraction of a Bitcoin as a payment for this product, but it just jumped so much that I effe

      • No there isn't. Businesses mostly use payment gateways that sell the BTC immediately. There's no risk of price fluctuation to the business.

        • He's not talking about in the second it takes to run the transaction. A volatile currency isn't very good for a stable economy because it becomes very hard to make long term predictions and plan/budget accordingly.
        • by spire3661 ( 1038968 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:52AM (#55695857) Journal
          Valve cited this yesterday as the reason they are no longer accepting Bitcoins as a payment option.

          "As of today, Steam will no longer support Bitcoin as a payment method on our platform due to high fees and volatility in the value of Bitcoin."

          http://steamcommunity.com/game... [steamcommunity.com]
        • >. Businesses mostly use payment gateways that sell the BTC immediately

          The last time I saw this model, it was where you'd give USD to a gateway and get a credit measured in Bitcoin at the current exchange rate. Then you'd find an online store to buy something, also measured in Bitcoin (though really a USD amount converted using the current exchange rate). Then the gateway would pay the online store in USD.

          So you give USD to someone who gives USD to someone, but you PRETEND that you're using Bitcoin. A

        • In the sense of "They're not going to not get their money's worth", you're correct that there's no risk. Steam are reporting, however, that the fluctuations are causing direct problems in terms of clawing back the right amount from customers:

          Historically, the value of Bitcoin has been volatile, but the degree of volatility has become extreme in the last few months, losing as much as 25% in value over a period of days. This creates a problem for customers trying to purchase games with Bitcoin. When checkin

    • Yesterday, we saw the first successful test of the Lightning network built on top of Bitcoin. This layer largely addresses the transaction price and scaling issues. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the news that kicked off this rally acceleration.

      • by Luthair ( 847766 )
        Classic part of a bubble is people fearing they missed out and buying high.
  • Idiot commentator (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:18AM (#55695523)

    Late Wednesday, finance author Ben Carlson wrote:
    Bitcoin has achieved something I've always wanted to see in the stock mkt - a reverse 1987 (20% gain in a single day)

    Whoever wrote that is an idiot. No we do not want to see that kind of volatility in the market, positive or negative. That is NOT a good thing. Any time something skyrockets that fast in price it is pretty much invariably because something weapons grade irrational and/or criminal is going on. This is what happens with pump and dump [wikipedia.org] schemes and those rarely end happily.

  • I guess my question is this...how much of the increase is driven by people trying to throw money at anything that will get them a huge return? Or, when do financial advisors start recommending Bitcoin futures for Grandma's lump-sum pension payment?

    I can't see this ending well because all it is is a speculative bubble. There's real money tied up in it, that's for sure, but in the end you don't even own stock in a company or a valuable commodity. All the cheerleaders are saying that the stock market is a casi

    • All the cheerleaders are saying that the stock market is a casino anyway, but even if the market drops 30%, you still own stock. If Bitcoin drops 30%, you'll have to hope that it comes back so you can get your money out.

      If you put your actual money into an investment and it drops 30%, you have to hope that it comes back up so you can recoup your original investment. That applies to any investment, no matter what it is.

      It's all a damn casino. At the end of the day, a company crashing vs. bitcoin crashing can create the same end result; a pile of worthless shit.

    • but even if the market drops 30%, you still own stock.

      Stock prices have gone to zero before.

  • With the inordinately low volume of bitcoin and its inherent instability, I can't see it gaining a foothold anywhere significant. Its value is fluctuating so widely, any major business would be crazy to accept it now. How are you supposed to budget and forecast against a currency that fluctuated 65% in a week?

    To big businesses, it might as well be monopoly money. Trying to work that against cost of goods sold, operating expenses, etc is in now way worth the effort.
  • *insert gif of MJ eating popcorn*
  • Sell NOW!!! It's useless as currency at this price with high transaction fees. This bubble is going to pop hard and fast and probably before Christmas.

    • Of course, it's going to pop. The question is at what price, and what happens after that. In 2013, it popped from $1300 to $200.

  • Tulips baby. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by darthsilun ( 3993753 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:54AM (#55695867)
    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana
  • Last I checked it was over 19,000 dollars. Come on now guys.
  • by BlueCoder ( 223005 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @02:30PM (#55697257)

    There is no basis for the inflated price. It's like junk bonds now; no rational thinking. I wouldn't be surprised if a government was behind it. The price will obvious self destruct and go down below market at witch time I probably will buy some for shits and giggles. I wouldn't be surprised if it went down to $200 per coin. The true value of bitcoin is in the number of people that hold onto them and won't sell them.

  • by dhaen ( 892570 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @02:56PM (#55697437)
    I had some residual left in Bitcoin from early 2016 (note I use the singular). I'd forgotten about this until the recent boom publicity and realised that just like Tulip Fever, it is based on nothing and may not climb much further. Anyway, I'm a happy bunny with the payout (x34). It will probably climb a bit further but many will lose in the crash.
  • by trevc ( 1471197 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @03:04PM (#55697481)
    Is it possible to short bitcoin so I can make money when it does crash?
  • by sizzzzlerz ( 714878 ) on Thursday December 07, 2017 @04:11PM (#55697947)

    Companies typically have tangible assests and sales to support their stock prices. What is supporting bitcoin's valuation. I suppose one could argue that it's price is whatever somebody is willing to pay for it but that seems awfully close to being a Ponzi scheme. This feels like the dot com bubble that blew up at the beginning of the century when internet companies had ridiculously high prices without having any sales. Pets.com anyone?

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