Aventus Blockchain-Based Ticketing System Aims To Wipe Out Ticket Touts (theguardian.com) 94
umafuckit writes: The Guardian reports on Aventus, an open-source protocol designed to eliminate fraud and touting for large events. The Aventus Protocol "would allow event organizers to give each ticket a unique identity that is tied to its owner. Since each ticket is a linked list of records, where each new one contains an encrypted version of the previous one, they cannot be faked. The software also allows event promoters to keep an easy record of who owns the ticket, which means they can control the prices. The protocol was launched at Imperial College London last week and will be trialed at this year's world cup, where it will handle 10,000 ticket sales.
Re:Useful for software bug report tickets, too? (Score:4, Insightful)
"Thing which already exists, except implemented using blockchain instead" is only a good idea if you're a contractor looking to generate billable hours out of buzzwords.
Re: (Score:2)
It sounds like someone doesn't understand blockchain technology, yes. But that someone is you.
If you look at the summary, almost all the benefits of this comes from giving each ticket a unique ID, not from using blockchain. And the rest come from encryption, which works just fine without blockchain.
The whole value of blockchain here is that the buzzword means people are more likely to tolerate the change.
Tickets benefit from being individually identifiable, and they benefit from being kept track of; but tha
Re: (Score:3)
Automatically setting a flag on a web form submission is trivial, but only the most oblivious of PHB's would ever think of doing so. Sure Mozilla will sometimes refuse to address a complaint a user had, but a few points for you to ponder:
1)Mozilla is doing this essentially free for the user community. They are fortunate to have funding and revenue streams that allow them to do that. But it does require that they focus very carefully on wh
Re: (Score:2)
Found the Google employee...
Re: (Score:2)
They also put care and intelligence into designing Chrome's architecture
LMFAO if that was true, they wouldn't be thrashing their features back and forth.
There might also be other reasons it is popular; they didn't switch from firefox to chrome, they mostly switched from ie to chrome. Maybe they're mostly simple people who want to choose something from some big company, and they would never have used firefox unless they had to? Maybe they'd heard that ie sucks, and they didn't even know why they wanted to change, they just knew that now there was a browser that their friend with
Re: (Score:2)
A few governments (e.g. Inida) use this to ledger land ownership, which cuts down on the type of fraud that involves switching around records or directly altering the database.
But for the use of selling tickets, blockchain is technically overkill and doesn't help the problem of "giving" tickets to another person (who could then claim to be the first purchaser). They're better off using optical scanners, printing the name of the owner on the ticket alon
Re: (Score:1)
Either:
1) AI is impossible
2) it will happen from learning
3) it will happen from programming.
Option two seems most likely of the three, even if not in my lifetime.
Aside from the octopus, pretty much every intelligent animal gets it from learning.
Re: (Score:1)
The Octopus is not raised by parents, and is not social, and yet as far as animals go seems quite smart.
It is (I believe) unique in this way. Other "smart" animals are social and learn from each other, and/or their parents, the Octopus is just born smart, it's all instinct.
Re: (Score:2)
A few governments (e.g. Inida) use this to ledger land ownership, which cuts down on the type of fraud that involves switching around records or directly altering the database.
A blockchain isn't immune to alterations. You just have to redo all the work from the point where you make the change.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you understand the concept of a cryptographically verified ledger, verified by a distributed network, not a central point of failure?
Yes, I do. I understand that the safety against malicious rewrite is based on total proof-of-work from the entire distributed network. Now, tell me, what will be the total size of the distributed network that is going to run these ticket sales ? For example, how many graphics cards will you donate to running your part of this network ?
Re: (Score:2)
Doesn't have to be immune, just resistant enough to interfere with casual attacks.
If one simply alters the raw data early in the chain, that gets detected as the various other nodes have to backtrack about ~100+ blocks to accept the new content. Still doesn't prevent someone with a few supercomputer clusters from remaking these blocks, but a random clerk won't get far.
Not that it's the best system to use, but it's their decision to implement it.
For those of us who are Yanks (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I _do_ see this helping outright counterfeit tickets. But at the end of the day this won't stop scalping.
Literally the only things you need to stop outright counterfeits are a centralized registry and a good RNG. There is absolutely zero need for blockchain.
Re:For those of us who are Yanks (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, they could do all that with just a regular database that links a unique ticket serial number to the ticket's purchaser or intended user at the original sale with no block chain required, but that wouldn't have quite the same effect at generating hype and (more importantly) investment money, would it?
Re: (Score:2)
Of course, they could do all that with just a regular database that links a unique ticket serial number to the ticket's purchaser or intended user at the original sale with no block chain required, but that wouldn't have quite the same effect at generating hype and (more importantly) investment money, would it?
The main issue with current database methods is they only work with the initial purchaser. Blockchain allows you to maintain a robust ledger throughout multiple transactions, and I'm guessing will be used to prevent the same people (touts) from abusing the system. It would be possible to ban offenders from participating in ticket buying and selling and void tickets immediately if they do, as well as off an easy validation systems of real tickets versus fakes for any potential buyers.
In theory it could be d
Re: (Score:2)
The main issue with current database methods is they only work with the initial purchaser. Blockchain allows you to maintain a robust ledger throughout multiple transactions,
You can simply take all the data from the blockchain ledger, and put it in a database.
Re: (Score:1)
The main issue with current database methods is they only work with the initial purchaser. Blockchain allows you to maintain a robust ledger throughout multiple transactions,
You can simply take all the data from the blockchain ledger, and put it in a database.
Which means all stakeholders rely on a single source of truth and single point of failure. Distributed Ledgers are cheaper and more robust which is why blockchain is gaining popularity
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
ID is a fallback in case of refusal at gate (Score:2)
The way I've seen it implemented, ID is used as a fallback.
When the QR-code / Barcode is rejected at the gate, two scenarios :
- some con artist used that code to generate a false ticket and managed to enter first into the premise, and the ticket S/N is marked as "already used". Too late to find out who's the cheater, but at least you can use the ID and verify the legitimate customer and let them in.
- the legitimate customer already went in with this barcode/QR-code first. The person refused
Re: (Score:2)
And blockchain is typically the kind of technology that can do decentralized ownership tracking - so no infrastructure but a distributed ledger.
Most likely point of failure is the local internet connection at the venue, not the server. And if you're worried about the server, it's easy enough to get a few extra servers from cloud providers, plus some redundant network access. That should be more reliable than depending on anonymous parties pitching in on maintaining a distributed ledger.
Just a hypothesis (Score:2)
Most likely point of failure is the local internet connection at the venue, not the server.
I'm merely pointing at what I'm hypothesizing is the invoked reason (so they can slap "Blockchain" to their idea and attract VCs).
Of course it's blindly simple to make a robust and mostly offline system for a music festival. (With a fall back to "customer service" queue).
And the most likely point of failure in practice is the actual physical processing of guests at the gate (bags checks, pat downs, depending on the local culture).
The personnel at the gate will start complaining not being able to process gue
Concert tickets vs Airline tickets (Score:2)
There have been airlines that shut down all flights because their ticketing systems had issues. {...} For most cases, I don't see any real benefit from this product that can't already be done via existing and simpler methods at the same or greater speed and cost...
Yup indeed, we're talking about concert tickets here and as you point out they are much more simple to implement in a robust.
Not a system where even the Internal Affairs Dept. of the Democratic Republic of Bannanistan should be able to append suspected terrorist to "no-fly" lists and send requests to your Airline Company to deny boarding to that suspect in almost real-time.
More a system where in worst case you can dump the whole list of currently valid S/N on the checking devices themselves
(but most often,
Re: (Score:2)
Traditional database (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't it possible to implement this using a traditional, centralized database, instead of a blockchain?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
No. In 2018 definitely not. If it ain't got many AIs and is not very blockchain, nobody will use it nor will mention it in the news.
P.S. It makes sense to use digital signatures with public key cryptography to allow offline verification without lookups into the centralized DB, but there is absolutely no point in chaining the tickets together, nor using any distributed voting mechanisms.
Re: (Score:1)
but there is absolutely no point in chaining the tickets together, nor using any distributed voting mechanisms.
The chain also allows you to validate legit tickets from counterfeit ones, which is an issue.
Blockchain is good for reputation validation, it will make it easy to see who are the casual ticket buyers and who are the scalpers and act accordingly. If you are buying 20+ tickets each week, you could be invited to join the authorised reseller program and follow the rules, or be banned from buying tickets in future.
The technology exist to solve this problem, let's see if the marketing people will use it appropr
Re: (Score:2)
The chain also allows you to validate legit tickets from counterfeit ones, which is an issue.
The post you replied to already had the answer for that. Legit tickets can be signed by official issuer, and everybody can verify them using the posted public key.
Re: (Score:1)
The chain also allows you to validate legit tickets from counterfeit ones, which is an issue.
The post you replied to already had the answer for that. Legit tickets can be signed by official issuer, and everybody can verify them using the posted public key.
Unless that single supplier is having an outage or being attacked. Distributed ledgers are more robust.
Re: (Score:2)
You would still need a physical ticket in case the computers or network go down.
Re: (Score:1)
You would still need a physical ticket in case the computers or network go down.
So some sort of device that converts digital bits to microscopic dots of ink on a piece or paper that make it readable outside of the computer? I believe I've heard of such a device....
Re: (Score:1)
Is that really enough of a risk to really worry about (if we buy the premise that reaold tickets suck, I don't).
It'd only be relevant in the situation that the computer doesn't work AND the enough of the venue's systems work for the show to go on. That seems like it'd be a rather rare occurrence.
If that did come to pass, they could probably pretend they're checking and just let everyone in. If a problem arises, then check against a printed copy of the list and check thouroughly.
Scalping (Score:2)
If this just allows the source to charge scalping prices, I know where they can shove some explosive devices
Does this mean the end (Score:2)
of Ticketmaster?
Re: (Score:2)
That would be awesome, but no.
I swear the Tickmaster fees are are approaching the same level of pain as the scalper markup. (That was an inadvertent typo, but I left it on purpose.)
Re:Did you mean wipe out Capitalism and Free Marke (Score:4, Interesting)
Scalpers are a solved problem. Been done by many bands.
Add shows until the last one doesn't sellout. If all bands did that for 3 months, all scalpers would be broke.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Or you just do not care that people re-sell something that is theirs. If I buy a phone, I should be able to resell it. If I buy a ticket to a concert, I should be able to sell it.
Scalpers are speculators, not resellers. They are no different from the scum that drive up oil prices on speculation of potential "unrest" in Iran and Venezuela or general dislike of Russia among the masses. How did you like that nice housing bubble recession in 2008? Speculators from banks to appraisers to buyers all got caught with their dicks hanging out when it was no longer sustainable and guess who got to suffer for it? Don't confuse scalpers with regular ticket holders who find out they can't - o
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
To me it is that if you own something, you should be able to sell it.
I completely agree. But what do you actually own here? A piece of paper with your name on it? Even that might remain the property of the issuer; in any case, giving or selling your ticket to someone else does not imply that they have permission from the owner of the venue to enter and participate in the event. That permission was granted to you alone, and is not transferable, regardless of who holds the ticket.
Purporting to sell access to an event when one does not have the right to grant such access is fra
Re: (Score:2)
Wait a second, I know that answer: The banks and speculators lost their asses.
The problems were: 1. the government set insane underwriting standards, allowing anybody to buy a house they couldn't possibly afford, and 2. the government bailed some of them out, banks owning corrupt politicians (e.g. Bush, Bush2, Obama, Clinton, Pelosi) is the problem.
As to oil, that's a zero sum game. The futures price at delivery date is the commodity price. That's how it works for a consumable. If doesn't matter what y
Re: (Score:2)
Prince was one of the ones that added shows to fuck the scalpers.
I don't have a problem with scalping as a concept, but I also don't have a problem with bands adding shows to deliberately fuck the scalpers.
Re: (Score:2)
Or you just do not care that people re-sell something that is theirs. If I buy a phone, I should be able to resell it. If I buy a ticket to a concert, I should be able to sell it.
No one cares about people reselling things. Everyone cares about computers reselling things, and you'd be the first one on here complaining if the entire world's supply of iPhone got sucked up on day one by a computer and trickle fed to consumers at twice the price.
You are talking about reselling. The topic here is scalping.
Scope matters.
Re: (Score:3)
Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping (Score:4, Insightful)
The way I would eliminate scalping is to schedule a decreasing ticket price. Buy on the first day, and the prices are $1000. They drop $100 for each of the next four days. Then they drop $50 for the next 5 days. Then they drop more slowly as the event gets closer.
Or something like that.
The point is that if you buy them up early to scalp them, you'll have trouble making a profit. If the fans really want to pay $500 for front-row tickets, the artists (or their promoters) get the money, not the scalpers.
Re:Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping (Score:4, Interesting)
I still don't see why they don't just use an auction. Everyone registers with the price they want to pay and the week of the show it locks in. Highest prices get the best tickets. Venues get sold out even if people register at $5.
I stopped buying tickets except from scalpers because ticket site often release "blocks" of tickets and not the best ones. The more you pay and the early you buy, the better your seats should be. This was not true for many of the shows I went to and found that I could buy day of from scalpers for much less.
Re: (Score:3)
When I was a teenager, Metallica was popular, especially in Denver. They would sell out Mile High Stadium. So they scheduled a show on Friday, and another on Saturday. It takes a large crew all day to set up the stage, lighting, sound system, etc for a major concert, then the concert is couple hours, then all day taking everything down and packing it in trucks. The band and promoter made a lot more profit by selling twice as many tickets, with the same expense to transport everything, set it all up, and tak
Re: (Score:3)
Concerts sell out months is advance. Also, Sunday (Score:3)
> The problem is venues are booked months to in advance
Conveniently, concerts sell out months in advance. Ticketmaster is currently selling tickets for John Mayer and for Jimmy Page concerts in 2019. Even of they don't quite sell out in the first 24 hours, Ticketmaster et al have enough information within 24 hours of tickets going on sale to pretty much know whether it will sell out.
Secondly, I suspect large venues stay pretty booked on Saturdays, not so much on Sundays. So if you book a venue for Saturd
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Not necessarily. First, for the top acts, even the listed ticket price keeps a lot of people out. Using the reverse auction system, scalpers are less likely to jump in, as it's harder for them to catch the right price and profit, so the real fans are more likely to end up purchasing tickets directly at a lower price.
Re: (Score:1)
The way I would eliminate scalping is to schedule a decreasing ticket price. Buy on the first day, and the prices are $1000. They drop $100 for each of the next four days.
Also known as a reverse auction. I've heard a lot of people suggest it and I can't really see why it wouldn't work, yet here we are. Oh I know why, greed. Because scalping actually helps the marketing campaign by creating artificial supply issues, and contributes to hype which is what the promoter wants.
I'll be interested to see if they actually let this work.
Re: Better Ways to Eliminate Scalping (Score:2, Interesting)
Under what rule can "the public" not afford the ticket or does "the poor" deserve a ticket?
And I guarantee u if say Adele only sold to "verified poor people", rich people would still get the tickets as most of the poor would sell the ticket for stupid amounts of money, potentially to scalpers.
Why are u so against someone selling something they own for whatever price they can get?
Re: (Score:2)
You're just buying into the: rich people rather than dedicated people deserve entertainment.
You can eliminate scalping very easily: Record the name of the purchaser and check it against a photo ID. Now before you complain about the lack of the photo ID, remember that most of the western world doesn't have that issue as we get photo IDs easily from our government, even poor people and illegal immigrants.
Re: (Score:2)
The way I would eliminate scalping is to schedule a decreasing ticket price. Buy on the first day, and the prices are $1000. They drop $100 for each of the next four days. Then they drop $50 for the next 5 days. Then they drop more slowly as the event gets closer.
Or something like that.
The point is that if you buy them up early to scalp them, you'll have trouble making a profit. If the fans really want to pay $500 for front-row tickets, the artists (or their promoters) get the money, not the scalpers.
Solving the scalping problem means making sure that fans are getting tickets at fair prices. At best, your solution merely transfers the unfair gains from scalper to production company and at worst the scalpers will sell-out the tickets at the highest price-point anyways and force the fans to pay even higher prices
what utter crap (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Whew! (Score:2)
"Large events" (Score:2)