London Launches World's First Contactless Payment Scheme For Street Performers (theverge.com) 162
An anonymous reader shares a report: Here's a casualty of the cashless society you might not have previously thought of: the humble street performer. After all, if more of us are paying our way with smartphones and contactless cards, how can we give spare change to musicians on the subway? London has one solution: a new scheme that outfits performers with contactless payment terminals. The project was launched this weekend by the city's mayor, Sadiq Khan, and is a collaboration with Busk In London (a professional body for buskers) and the Swedish payments firm iZettle (which was bought this month by PayPal for $2.2 billion). A select few performers have been testing iZettle's contactless readers on the streets for the past few weeks, and Khan now says the scheme will be rolled out across London's 32 boroughs.
Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Informative)
Except this is not the first. WeChat and AliPay can be used to pay street performers, beggars, homeless bums, etc., and unlike this scheme, they don't require an expensive reader. Just a QR sticker that can be printed out for about 2 cents, and placed on the performer's sign.
Now "Sorry, I don't carry cash" is no excuse.
You can claim that your cell battery is dead.
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You can claim that your cell battery is dead.
Thanks for the...tip?
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Now "Sorry, I don't carry cash" is no excuse.
You can claim that your cell battery is dead.
Or you could just say no. Works just as well. Mind you if lying because you feel you would otherwise be a bad person makes you feel better about yourself then by all means.
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No you don't (Score:2)
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If you stop for more than a minute, you owe them.
By reading this post the reader hereby declares they will send $1 via paypal to the author to compensate the time spent disputing this stupid arguement.
I'll be waiting for my payment.
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It's just a point-of-sales terminal. Use Apple Pay and relax. And the London mayor is really not part of "the government"
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You don't have to sign up for an app. The performers are being given contactless payment readers. These work with any contactless credit card.
You can also use Apple Pay or Google Pay if you choose.
The point is to make it as easy as possible to give money. Making people download apps is not the way to do that. Whether you trust a card reader from a random street performer is another matter...
Incidentally, and off topic, the app aspect is a factor with parking. Many UK councils are implementing app methods to
Re:You've never thrown a coin in a hat? (Score:5, Insightful)
It depends on the performed...
I don't like being approached and harassed, not only when i walk down the street but also in my own home.
However most of these street performers don't harass anyone, they sit in one location and perform, you are free to walk around and ignore them, or you can choose to stop and watch. Some of them are good, some of them suck, but it's no different than a bar or shop which has music or video playing in the window.
If they passively perform and are good i will happily give them money sometimes...
If they aggressively approach me demanding money, disturbing my day or intentionally blocking my path they will get nothing but a hostile stare from me. This applies not only to buskers, but anyone trying to get something from me either for free or in exchange for something.
If your goods are on display and i like the look of them and/or ask about them thats great, if you aggressively try to sell to me i'm not interested.
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I once put my goods on display in the street. Then I got arrested for frightening the children.
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Yes that's a good point, they should choose a location that doesn't hinder the flow of pedestrians.
Otherwise it's no problem.
Re:Picard: Who the fuck (Score:5, Insightful)
has ever been dumb enough to give money to a street performer?
I have, many times, and in many cities. If they put on a good show, and make me laugh, I am happy to contribute a few bucks to their livelihood and keep street culture alive.
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Of course, because you're not a jerk. And you never know who the person with his instrument case open on the ground might someday become. The list of famous musicians who were once buskers is very long.
Rod Steward, B.B. King, Steve Martin, Janis Joplin and Robin Williams were all street performers at one time. Busking is an honorable livelihood.
People who say they would never give money to a busker simply do not have any soul whatsoever.
An
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Busking is an honorable livelihood.
Busking & other street entertainment can be an honorable livelihood.
It can also be thinly disguised begging / harassment, e.g. those people who board a subway train and play a song to a captive audience whether they want to hear it or not. Or costumed characters who mill around tourist spots (e.g. people dressed as Romans around the Colluseum in Rome), causing trouble for tourists or each other on a regular basis.
The only way to separate legitimate performers from the rest is to require them to hold
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Incidentally, London implements a licensing scheme for its public transport. [tfl.gov.uk] I presume plenty of other cities do the same.
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e.g. people dressed as Romans around the Colluseum in Rome
Of course the people who live in Rome dress like Romans. Pretty much by definition. People in Albuquerque dress like Albuquerquians.
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The list of famous musicians who were once buskers is very long.
While not famous, I saw the best guitar player at our school who has gone to do great things in the local musical scene busking long after he was able to afford to live as a musician without a second job to support him.
I asked him why, and he just said, why not. The difference between playing at home on the couch and playing here in the subway station is that I get free dinner doing it here.
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has ever been dumb enough to give money to a street performer?
What has dumb got to do with appreciating some dirt cheap entertainment?
Oh yeah, the same people who will happily charge 2 pounds...oops...decimal point...200 pounds to a random person on the street.
Just because someone is a street performer doesn't mean they are automatically criminals or arsehats. The same can not be said for some Slashdot posters.
oh no (Score:1)
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When you said "a specific pitch", my mind first went to music. What a boring song that would be...
Let's hope... (Score:4, Interesting)
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I was thinking *almost* that. More like a dancer dancing among the crowd and waving her arm close to people's back pockets. Either way, same idea, different implementation.
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Apps connected to the card are extremely popular in London, and they immediately warn the user of an expense. If something like that were to happen you'd see a lot of unhappy bystanders!
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That'll help if you get surreptitiously charged while standing and watching a street performer. But given a bit of latency, you'll never figure out who skimmed your card after you get bumped by a few hobos on the sidewalk.
Re:Let's hope... (Score:5, Interesting)
Which is why I have a NFC jammer in my pocket. It's just a little card that's powered by NFC and just jams the signal by responding. (Basically, in NFC, you send a clock and the card pulses to indicate a 1 or 0. The cards listen as well and if they detect a pulse they didn't send, it means a collision and the card will temporarily disable further responses until inquired again. The card that responds continue to do so unless it detects a collision from a third card. A card that successfully transmits disables itself for further inquiries while still powered).
So this card continues to send pulses out which prevents all the other cards from responding. NFC readers don't even acknowledge something is happening - they just fail to read anything.
Attempts to "tap" my wallet result in nothing being read.
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A wallet, being ungrounded, is never a perfect Faraday cage. You just have to turn up the gain a bit to defeat it.
This NFC jammer sounds like a solution for that problem.
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The end result will be hundreds of errors on his screen typically that his tap didn't work (because despite what you may think the contactless payment system needs very close proximity held sustained for a second or two, ... in which case you'd be checking that he doesn't have your wallet in the first place,) and because you need to identify the single card, which means if you go up to a random person in the street and try it you'll just get an error, likely from their credit card, or their oyster card, or
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Maybe. People in Seattle often use Orca cards (transit payment) by briefly tapping their wallet against the reader.
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Ditto for Presto Cards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] in southern Ontario for several regional transit systems.
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Maybe. People in Seattle often use Orca cards (transit payment) by briefly tapping their wallet against the reader.
I used to do that too until bank card went contact and it all started interfereing.
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...that some enterprising busker does not put the reader at waist height in a crowded area and gain hundreds of "taps" from unsuspecting passersby.
Yep,
Headline says "London Launches World's First Contactless Payment Scheme For Street Performers" but what they really mean is "Thousands of Londoners are about to have their cards compromised". Glad I've disabled contactless on all of my cards (as in a hard disable, using a Stanley knife to cut the induction loop whilst keeping the chip intact)
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Ebenezer! When did you start posting on Slashdot?
Queue the taxman (Score:5, Insightful)
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So their modest income is now trackable by the government
I assume it is taxable now, too.
matter of time until even the oldest profession in the world is monitored by governments for taxes due.
I believe it is already taxed -- in countries where this profession is legal, anyway.
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It’s only a matter of time until even the oldest profession in the world is monitored by governments for taxes due.
In civilized countries it already is. Why wouldn't it be? Income is liable for income tax, no matter how it was gained.
It is only hypocritical countries, dominated by religious nuts that continue to outlaw prostitutes.
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Why shouldn't they pay tax on that money? In the UK the first £11,850 you make in this tax year is tax free. If they make a lot of money busking, good for them, but pay tax like everyone else.
Those in the "oldest profession" can be self-employed (I'm still not sure what they write their business is about on the tax return form) and pay taxes and get social benefits like every other worker too. Individual prostitution is legal in the UK (kerb crawling, soliciting in the street, brothels aren't though).
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So their modest income is now trackable by the government, if not now, very soon. It’s only a matter of time until even the oldest profession in the world is monitored by governments for taxes due.
And why wouldn't it be? It's taxes. If their income is that modest well that's why the tax system is progressive including a personal allowance for income which is completely untaxed.
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So their modest income is now trackable by the government, if not now, very soon. It’s only a matter of time until even the oldest profession in the world is monitored by governments for taxes due.
Erm... it already is.
Prostitution is not illegal here in the UK. We don't have ancient puritan hangups that force it underground permitting pimps to hold girls in virtual slavery.
The downside of this is that it's income that must be declared and taxed. Not sure about VAT (sales tax).
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Most professional ladies [and 'men'] in sex industry in UK report income for tax purposes, and deduct expenses. Some even make it into the very high tax bracket. Some such as remote video work act as limited companies and also collect VAT (sales tax). The Register had a report on this some years ago. So taxperson collected taxes both personal, sales tax and company tax. Quite normal for HMRC (Her Majesties Revenue & Customs) to tax the oldest profession.
This has been in China for at least 2 years alread (Score:5, Informative)
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100% digital cash is very useful for a dictatorship. Of course China is ahead.
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Ah, but it is not controlled, and more importantly tracked, by the local government (well, it is China, I'm sure they have back door access, but hey).
BTW, WeChat has spread a lot further than China, but not quite as commonly.
It is hard to see how people are thick enough to think that 'cashless society' is an advantage to them.
But people are always going out of their way to impress with their stupidity.
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Why do you assume buskers and panhandlers are homeless? In some cases, that can pay pretty well (and tax-free too, if you use cash). There's a guy who works a corner with a cardboard sign in my town. His Lexus is nicer than my car.
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Moving into a new tax bracket should only affect the money that bracket starts at. At least when speaking in regards to USA federal tax income, it's in tiers. The first 10k is at one rate, then 10,000.01-20k will be taxes at a higher rate, the next 10k at a 3rd rate.
Moving into a higher bracket just means that anything earned over the threshold will be taxes at the higher rate. Moving into a new bracket doesn't mean all your prior money is taxed at the highest possible rate.
Maybe things are different in you
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Meanwhile, when visiting China (Score:2)
Contactless pickpocketing (Score:2)
Looks like a great way to do contactless pickpocketing?
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Not as easy as you think. Use your phone? Doesn't work when the screen is on. Have more than one bank card, or a bank card and an oyster card, or even your swipe card for your building, or a parking ticket, the transaction fails.
Plus you need reasonably close contact sustained for a second or so meaning a quick brush against someone won't do it either.
Zelle and Venmo (Score:2)
Isn’t this the reason they exist?
Minimize street solicitation (Score:2)
I thought one of the advantages of a cashless society was the minimization of street solicitation via restriction of payment opportunities.
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Solicitation by homeless and entertainment by street performers are two different things. Few people see the loss of the latter as an "advantage".
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nah. They're homeless because houses cost too much, they're crazy, they're addicts, or they're just lazy. Or a combination of any of them. I've met people fitting into all these categories. Determining the percentage of each group is the tricky question.
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There's a significant difference between a street performer and a beggar.
One offers something before they ask for payment; the other just asks for payment. Some performers are crap. Some have heart but no talent. Others are superb. You get to judge the product before you pay.
I've stood in a queue while a busker up the street played several classical pieces on the flute. He was amazing and made the wait a pleasant one. I've waited for friends and stood on the street listening to some musicians jam. Not great
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Buskers are not leeches, they provide entertainment. It's no different to you attending a concert, or listening to the radio. If you like the performance you can make a donation, if you don't like it you can ignore it.
I do however totally agree on the leeches who tell you some bullshit story in an attempt to get free cash from you. Most of the ones that claim to be homeless and hungry will refuse food if you offer it to them, they only want cash.
I've offered perfectly good recently bought and unopened food
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A magnificently pointless idea (Score:2)
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You didn't even read the summary. The "point" is that fewer people are carrying cash of any kind, thus there's no coin to throw into the guitar case.
I don't think this is an advancement, as a hobo with a guitar is still a hobo.
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You've missed the point on several levels. One of the novel features of this setup is it just takes a straight £2 or whatever it is charge from the tap. THe performer doesn't need to enter a price.
I use contactless a lot, I can pay by phone, card or a keyfob. Neither really require very much fishing. I don't usually even remove my card to pay, just tap my wallet.
Add this to public toilets (Score:2)
Put these readers at toilets in central London (and other places) so I can use my contactless to relieve myself when I don't have coins on me. Oyser users may also appreciate it if they can use their card for this purpose too.
Bums in SF will rejoice (Score:1)
The beggars and street bums in San Francisco already are equipped to take credit cards, but this will really step up their game. Thanks, tech industry!
I'm not liking this! (Score:2)
For years, my standard response to the panhandlers infesting our downtown area has been, "Do you take debit?"
If this catches on, I'll have to revert to my former practice of politely asking them to fuck off.
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the murder rate is astronomical and rising rapidly
Looking at the graph for homicide [wikipedia.org] it looks like there's a general downward trend dipping to the lowest point in 2012 and rising a little since. A note is made that the 9 people killed in the London Bridge and Finsey Park attacks are included in the 2017 figures.
In fact, the graphs of all violent crime show the same downward trend across the last couple of decades.
Do you have any source of information that shows differently? The wikipedia article cautions about the difficulty of obtaining information and tha
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Thank you, I appreciate the link.
The judge's comments seem deeply out of touch. More interesting was the the graph and some commentary around it further on in the article. Reported knife crime does seem to be making a marked climb from a recent low.
Below the graph, the following information is provided - fatalities per year from stabbing 186, 212, and 215, respectively for 2015, 2016 and 2017. It then mentions that in the first 100 days of 2018, 53 people have been killed, some by knife. Even if we assume a
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Que?
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Yeah you could see it like that. The other way of seeing it is jailing people who re-offend multiple times of being in contempt of court. Oh and fuck you for calling Tommy Robinson a journalist. He is as much of a journalist as Freddy Krueger is a surgeon. Just because you have a knife or a mic in your hand doesn't make you that profession.
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I identify myself as the pope. Are you going to bow down before me and kiss my ring?
Interestingly when you google his name, what do people in general identify him as? Oh that's right Political Activist. It's right there on his own wikipedia profile. Maybe if he identified himself as a journalist he would get that fixed.
Also you calling someone bigot is a bit pot calling the kettle black don't you think? I mean until you kiss my magical pope ring you have displayed just as much biggotry in this thread as I h
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This is a good lesson to you younger Slashdotters out there: racism makes you stupid. Look what's happened to poor Brett Buck (811747). He was probably just like you or me at one time, and could tell the difference between a National Front/Fox News fever
Re:This is what the Mayor is worried about? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a good lesson to you younger Slashdotters out there: racism makes you stupid.
Except that "muslim" isn't a race.
Who's stupid again?
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Racism itself doesn't make you stupid, the mental gyrations you have to go through to maintain it dull your ability to reason.
Though some on the other side blaming racism for everything seem to have a a similar, though more limited, problem.
Yes, and it succeeded. (Score:2)
While you do go to some effort to take your somewhat on target point too far, let me reply.
The WHOLE point of this is diversion.
The people who 'feel good' from the idea of the noble busker getting money are happy.
The people who are incensed at the local government putting its effort in to this are up in arms about this payment scheme, therefore diverting them from the things the local government would rather they did not focus on.
So, it is basically a win win for these people.
So yes, they consider it import
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London is fine, knife attacks are quite under control in a city of 8million, the vast majority of them never actually involve an attack, the murder rate is lower than it's been in the past and well below that of New York or Chicago, the city certainly isn't known as Londonistan to anyone other than racist fucks, and when you walk around there's no a Muslim extremist to be seen.
Speaking of being seen you can't see me giving you the finger right now for sharing such sheer and utter stupidity. You give the hum
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It would not be cheap, bitcoin has a limited blocksize, e.g. a finite number of transactions per block / unit time, so you need to bid a "tip" to the transactor (miner) to get your transaction included in the next block. That can be next to nothing if there's little competition for transactions, but if the rate of transactions goes up, the average tip needed also increases.
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ridiculous, Tommy broadcast about ongoing court proceedings. He filmed defendents entering court, livestreamed it and talked about the case. That's just contempt of court, and "perverting the course of justice" and is equivalent to things like jury tampering in seriousness. It's not valid "journalism" because doing stuff like that undermines the fairness of trials. He got what was coming to him.
The judge blocked people talking about Tommy's case, but only because reporting on that would further jeopardize t