A Community-Run ISP Is the Highest Rated Broadband Company In America (vice.com) 102
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: A new survey by Consumer Reports once again highlights how consumers are responding positively to [community-run broadband networks]. The organization surveyed 176,000 Consumer Reports readers on their experience with their pay TV and broadband providers, and found that the lion's share of Americans remain completely disgusted with most large, incumbent operators. The full ratings are paywalled but available here to those with a Consumer Reports subscription. All the usual suspects including Comcast, Charter (Spectrum), AT&T, Verizon, and Optimum once again fell toward the bottom of the barrel in terms of overall satisfaction, reliability, and value, largely mirroring similar studies from the American Customer Satisfaction Index.
One of the lone bright spots for broadband providers was Chattanooga's EPB, a city-owned and utility operated broadband provider we profiled several years back as an example of community broadband done well. The outfit, which Comcast attempted unsuccessfully to sue into oblivion, was the only ISP included in the study that received positive ratings for value. "EPB was the top internet service provider in our telecom ratings two times in the past three years," Christopher Raymond, electronics editor at Consumer Reports told Motherboard. "Consumer Reports members have given it high marks for not only reliability and speed, but also overall value -- and that's a rare distinction in an arena dominated by the major cable companies," he said.
One of the lone bright spots for broadband providers was Chattanooga's EPB, a city-owned and utility operated broadband provider we profiled several years back as an example of community broadband done well. The outfit, which Comcast attempted unsuccessfully to sue into oblivion, was the only ISP included in the study that received positive ratings for value. "EPB was the top internet service provider in our telecom ratings two times in the past three years," Christopher Raymond, electronics editor at Consumer Reports told Motherboard. "Consumer Reports members have given it high marks for not only reliability and speed, but also overall value -- and that's a rare distinction in an arena dominated by the major cable companies," he said.
Community, commune, communism. (Score:5, Funny)
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I'm sure cayenne8 will be along shortly to explain how this is the result of commie indoctrination of the young.
Gee, no kidding? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Easy when someone else is footing the bill (Score:5, Insightful)
We've been paying hundreds of billions to the telecoms through a Universal Subscriber Fee for decades, and NO ONE (except the telecom shareholders) has ever gotten anything for that money.
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How is it going to be more unsustainable to cut out useless middlemen? ISPs are basically the only companies that the public trusts less than the government, even the most unpopular parts of the government. It's like saying that we can't replace Kevorkian and Dahmer as babysitters.
Also, it seems like those numbers might be bullshit or in some way deceptive. Already, we are seeing sourced replies that the recent they aren't serving other areas is because AT&T and Comcast banned it.
Comcast sucks. F
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Probably true, but unless you can provide numbers like he just did
Here is a number: 5.
Just like his numbers it isn't backed up by a source and is just propaganda invented to push my agenda.
If you want something more substantial you could read through this document:
$200 Billion Broadband Scandal [doc.gov]
It refers to some 528 sources so it might take some time to verify everything but at least it proves his point.
unless we all like shelling out huge amounts of money to things we can't have.
Well, you already did.
It's not like socialized infrastructure is a new thing.
While privatized infrastructure can work, no-one have been able to make it work better than com
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USF was a fee that was only collected by telecoms who provided qualified buildouts to rural areas.
Which is all telecoms in the US.
And while it may have indeed added up to your claimed numbers, it represented a fraction of overall build costs, and was only collected from subscribers.
Subscribers who overwhelmingly did not live in those rural areas - that was the point, for the people with existing phone service to subsidize the installation and maintenance of phone service for other people.
Especially from all the people who got a monthly charge and didn't have, and couldn't get the service.
There are exactly zero people in this situation.
The ISP got government subsidies to build out their network. These subsidies were available to anyone, they were not a specific program for Chattanooga. Further, the spending from those subsidies is done. The only peopl
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Ah ... so that Universal Service Fund is being looked after by the FCC. Well, we know there are no worries about THAT, right?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/d... [forbes.com]
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We've been paying hundreds of billions to the telecoms through a Universal Subscriber Fee for decades, and NO ONE (except the telecom shareholders) has ever gotten anything for that money.
You forgot telecom executives, who continue to bring home multi-million dollar bonuses. Our tax money is buying their yachts.
Re: Easy when someone else is footing the bill (Score:1)
Youâ(TM)re of course leaving out that EPB tried to run the network outside of Chattanooga but Comcast did get that prevented, and the funding they got was to run the fiber for their smart power grid, not for the broadband side. So youâ(TM)re technically right, but not entirely.
Do they want me, a Texan, to pay for it again? (Score:1)
I live in Texas. I paid for the Chattanooga fiber network.
Do they want me to also pay for running fiber to rural areas of Tennessee? I'm not interested in paying for that. If people in those areas want fiber, they can pay the cost instead of forcing me to pay for their internet service.
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Again, of the $300 million spent to build the Chattanooga fiber, only 10% was paid by the customers receiving the service. $111 million, almost half, was paid with your and mine federal tax dollars. I'd rather have that money back to pay for me own internet, wouldn't you?
Re: Do they want me, a Texan, to pay for it again (Score:3)
Not really.
I don't like morons. Easy way to not have morons is to help pay for other people's schools.
I don't like rotting food. Best way to avoid it is to help pay for other people's infrastructure.
The ongoing costs are negligible per person, per consumer. The initial cost is the only significant quantity and even that, diluted over 340 million people over several years, isn't much.
Actually, it's effectively more people than that, as the Feds get taxes other than income but you're treating all tax as incom
So you want to do more of it? I'll email you. (Score:2)
So you want to do more of the same type of thing?
That's great, because I'd like to receive it gigabit internet paid for by someone else. You can pay for my fiber. I'll email you.
Why ME, why should you pay for MY gigabit? Well, why Chattanooga? Why should everyone in the entire country to forced to buy gigabit for a few people in Chattanooga? Is my family less deserving than the people in Chattanooga? My family includes two *black* *women*, so you also get to virtue signal about helping minorities.
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Find me the interstate that is yours and yours alone and you'll have an argument. Until then, you've not offered an argument. I have no problem paying 33 cents per city in America, as a one-off fee, provided it's not all of them at once.
Is your family less deserving? No. Get your local authority to duplicate the effort, performance and reliability. I'll pay the 33 cents for it. It's still not YOUR internet, any more than that's your telephone system or your water mains. It's your community's. And I'll pay 3
That'll be $16,478 please (Score:2)
> I have no problem paying 33 cents per city in America
There are 19,354 cities in the US (census.gov).
At 33 cents per person per city, that's $6,386.82 per person.
At 2.58 people per family, your family's bill is $16,478
I don't know about you, but I don't have an extra $16,478 that I want to spend on that. I have more important things to pay for, like my wife's surgeries. You really have $16,478 laying around that yoy have no better use for? You also see no problem with FORCING every other family in co
Re: Do they want me, a Texan, to pay for it again (Score:4, Informative)
And let's see. $111 million divided by 340 million... 33 cents, on average.
The highest paid person in the US earns something like $23 million a year before bonuses, although I did hear of someone earning $54 million before bonuses.
Somehow, I doubt you paid even the 33 cents.
You probably lose more than that in a year from defective vending machines and misplaced change.
Instead, you could have invested it in a stronger America with (gasp) jobs and stuff.
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So bad X 100 = good? (Score:2)
> but since many industries and companies received money
So you're thinking that if you do a LOT of $something_bad, that makes it good?
No, GP reposted one of my numbers (Score:2)
No, the $111 million number GP mentioned was over of the numbers I posted. GP simply said that taxpayer money has also been spent on other questionable things, and then then implied that this particular stupidness is "not relevant" because there have also been other bad things.
GP simply ignored the other $160 million taken from people who don't get the service.
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I live in Texas. I paid for the Chattanooga fiber network.
Do they want me to also pay for running fiber to rural areas of Tennessee? I'm not interested in paying for that. If people in those areas want fiber, they can pay the cost instead of forcing me to pay for their internet service.
So Texas gets no federal funds? Oh, you do. I hope you are saying thanks to all those people in Chattanooga that helped pay for your infrastructure.
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Judging by your talking points, I'm sure you're also aware that EPB is prohibited by a state law witten by Comcast and ATT lobbyists [slashdot.org] from expanding to service people and areas outside of Chattanooga, and that AT&T is receiving $156 million in government funding [stopthecap.com] to provide 10/4-gigabit service in those outlying areas EPB legally can't service. But by all means, keep up the spin and half-truths; the representative for AT&T is running for US Senate now and could surely use your help.
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It cost $300 million to build EPB's fiber network.
Of that, $111 million, almost half, came from taxpayers outside of Chattanooga - people who can't get the service, but are required to pay for it.
Wow, rebuilding the network every year sure is expensive!!
Oh wait....that's not what's going on....and those ebil tax thefts you describe were subsidies for broadband service available to anyone that wanted to apply for them. It wasn't some terrible plot by Chattanooga that only could benefit Chattanooga.
Well yeah it damn well better be aftee taxpayers already paid for the vast majority of the expense, building the fiber network.
So I have some bad news. There's this thing called the Interstate Highway system.....
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Re: Easy when someone else is footing the bill (Score:2)
Log on to a server there.
Next!
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The same way you use the Interstates thousands of miles away from you: you don’t.
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You, dumb, stupid, fucking, ignorant cunt. You fucking morons just can't be told, to remind you fuckwits, just because you don't drive on a road does not mean you shouldn't pay taxes for it because you might get deliveries by it, the fire brigade and police drive on it, the school bus drives on it, and all the teachers, but fuck all that, "I don't use the road, so I shouldn't pay taxes for it, is all that screams in you tiny pin heads", you fucking morons (I include those who modded this stupidity up). The
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YOU live and work in buildings built by "construction driving asshole friends". YOU eat food, wear clothes, use items (every single day) that were delivered by "semi-truck driving asshole friends". The key word here, is YOU. Build your own home, workplace, recreation buildings, and use items only you grew, chemically synthesized or mined and manufactured and then maybe we'll talk. Unless you're typing this on a potato that you grew yourself and are powering it with your own farts through plastic tubes y
Twelve full days of power outages per year? (Score:2)
$100 million due to power outages, eh?
So that would be a reduction of six full working days at the average business in their service area.
EPB claims the hours of power outages have been cut in half, so it would need to average twelve 8-hour days of blackouts.
If each customer has been having twelve full days of blackouts every year, perhaps the people running EPB should have been fired. If the current average is six full days of outages for each customer every year, perhaps they should still be fired.
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Taxpayers already footed the bill to create the internet backbone that the ISPs piggy-back off of. Why aren't you complaining about the deadbeat ISPs not paying us back?
I'm pretty sure I just did (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure I just did. Stamping the word "municipal" on it doesn't make it okay for the Chattanooga ISP to force you to buy gigabit fiber for the selected areas of their city.
Before you disagree, you should be aware this post is a community post, and it's green, so disagree with it at your peril.
Re:Gee, no kidding? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm the owner and creator of ViXiV Technologies in Chattanooga and am using EPB Fiber now... The minimum speed they offer is 100Mbit at $58/Month. It is extremely reliable, but it does occasionally suffers from some DHCPd issues and every now and then the Optical Termination Panel outside freezes. I've only experienced this around 5 times in around 6 years. The service is extremely reliable other than that and they solved the majority of bugs in the first year with the help of community feedback (some provided by myself). I'm extremely happy with the service although I wish it was a little less expensive per month for the 100Mbit. I really have no room to complain... It is a full dedicated 100Mbit, whereas cable services are limited to a shared pool of bandwidth between nodes of sometimes thousands of subscribers due to the design of DOCSIS networks. With EPB, most commercial routers can't even push the full 100Mbit, even the routers they provide can't push it to a full 100. A custom pfSense router on the other hand can push a 100Mbit connection to a max of 115-120Mbit Up/Down. EPB also offers Gigabit and 10-Gigabit Fiber Internet Connections, but you'll need some better hardware to fully benefit from these speeds, especially the 10-Gig. Gig is only $69.99 a Month, but the 10-Gigabit connections will cost you $300 a month, which in reality is insanely cheap and makes all other local ISP's inferior.
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Kind of a shame they don't have a lower priced tier for the less affluent. $58 isn't a bad price for what you're getting but for some people that's a lot of money. I know Comcast in my area has internet service plans for cheaper then that. The service sucks of course but it does reliably get you onto the internet every day,
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Google Fiber was ranked second... (Score:4, Insightful)
On the other hand, Comcast required more than 3 calls to bury the outside cable line after it was replaced (it was supposed to be buried automatically with a second crew after the tech left, but he didn't file the right paperwork), and when I called customer service, one representative told me he was going to "reset my modem to resolve the issue". Yeah, apparently resetting modems can bury cable lines underground now, folks...
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Its eye-opening to compare to Australian ISP (Score:2)
The huge gap between what we get here in Australia, to what Chattanooga has rolled out, is amazing.
Chattanooga is offering 1Gbps for $70/mo (I don't see a data cap!) or you can go nuts and get 10Gbp for $300/mo.
Here in Australia, if your area is lucky enough to have workable "high-speed" broadband, it'll cost you $70AUD/mo for 50Mbps (asymm) and that's likely to have a data cap, possibly metered in both directions. A 100Mbps connection will be around $100AUD/mo and depending on the technology behind it, y
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Here in Arendal Norway we get 250Mbps/250Mbpsfor ~USD 89/mounth (NOK 749/Mounth) with no caps an no tv package requiered, ironicly this is from Telenor the ftm state monopoly stability after completed rolloot had only been limited by the fact rgat I hav’nt yet put my fiber converter and other nerwork gear on s ups
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Ironically, Chattanooga itself is in appalachia.
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Many Australia ISPs offer plans on the NBN at the 50Mbps or 100Mbps speed tiers with genuinely unlimited data. TPG (just as one example) will give you unlimited data on the 50Mbps speed tier for AU$70/month or on the 100Mbps speed tier for AU$90/moth.
IINet, iPrimus, Optus, Belong, Dodo, Telstra and others all offer NBN plans with unlimited data on the 50Mbps speed tier, the 100Mbps speed tier or both.
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I have 101/40 MBps real-world speed on TPG fibre in Melbourne for $70/month. It just sucks that they cherry-pick buildings, and there's no choice of provider. It's TPG fibre, or shitty ADSL that barely gets 1Mbps down because the copper going up the hill is in terrible condition. And no NBN available.
customers vs shareholders (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, imagine that. Apparently when you are beholden to your customers rather than your shareholders, your customers think you do a better job at it.
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This is capitalism working (and a rare example of its defeating corporatism). This is allowing actual competition in an industry, aka the free market. Imagine if government- and law-sanctioned broadband monopolies disappeared and there were *more of this competition* and you would be imagining capitalism. I dare say folks might enjoy that (especially if there were a few more companies like this offering service in the region so that you could buy service that more suits your tastes and/or budget).
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Imagine if government- and law-sanctioned broadband monopolies disappeared and there were *more of this competition* and you would be imagining capitalism.
You can imagine it all you want, but when the barrier to entry is that high (building a fiber network that covers an entire city is expensive), how many competitors are you really going to get?
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I use EPB (Score:1)
I am in the EPB's service area, and I have their 1 Gbps service. It's almost never down. That's a major improvement over my last provider (Comcast). There's really nothing more to say than that. 100% customer satisfaction here.
I am disappointed that it took our local power company to do this. AT&T and Comcast had the rights-of-way and the technical know-how to roll out fibre and make a profit doing so (the EPB is making a profit, after all). They are constantly being subsidized by state government