Half of US Uber Drivers Make Less Than $10 An Hour After Vehicle Expenses, Study Says (recode.net) 156
Echoing a similar study by the JPMorgan Chase Institute, a new study finds the median hourly pay with tip for Uber drivers in the U.S. is $14.73, which includes tips and excludes expenses like insurance, gas and car depreciation incurred while working. The study was conducted by Ridester, a publication that focuses on the ride-hail industry. Recode reports: Using Ridester's low-end estimate of $5 per hour in vehicle costs, drivers would bring in $9.73 per hour and potentially much less. That implies a driver working 40 hours per week would make an annual salary of almost $31,000 before vehicle expenses, and about $20,000 after expenses (but still before taxes). That's below the poverty threshold for a family of three. It's also a far cry from the $70,000 to $90,000 Uber once claimed its drivers made in major markets.
The study, which was conducted this summer, asked drivers for a screenshot of their Uber app's earnings page from their last full day driving. The 719 valid screenshots they used show how many hours the drivers worked and how much they were paid after Uber's cut. It doesn't factor in other costs like taxes or healthcare. And -- worth noting -- the study only represents drivers who were motivated enough to send in their data and isn't necessarily representative of the geographical distribution of Uber drivers.
The study, which was conducted this summer, asked drivers for a screenshot of their Uber app's earnings page from their last full day driving. The 719 valid screenshots they used show how many hours the drivers worked and how much they were paid after Uber's cut. It doesn't factor in other costs like taxes or healthcare. And -- worth noting -- the study only represents drivers who were motivated enough to send in their data and isn't necessarily representative of the geographical distribution of Uber drivers.
Go to Amazon (Score:2)
They should go to Amazon. They are paying $15 now.
A lot will (Score:3)
Re:A lot will (Score:5, Interesting)
Amazon wasn't forced to pay $15/hr. They decided to freely do so ... which i'll admit comes ahead of an eventual bill that would have cost them significantly more.
Still, they do set a new standard which will drag up a lot of other companies around them. I still wonder what happened to uber. Their rates have gone up, not down, yet drivers seem to be making substantially less than just a few years ago. Too many cars idling and not getting rides? Uber increased their cut? Something else?
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I still wonder what happened to uber. Their rates have gone up, not down, yet drivers seem to be making substantially less than just a few years ago.
They figured out how to squeeze more out of their drivers while paying them less. This is Uber we're talking about here, not Facebook or Google. If they could drive their empl^H^H^H^Hindependent contractors pay down to zero while they took the remaining 100%, they would.
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I still wonder what happened to uber. Their rates have gone up, not down, yet drivers seem to be making substantially less than just a few years ago.
They figured out how to squeeze more out of their drivers while paying them less.
This answer begs the question. How did they squeeze more out of the drivers while paying them less?
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"This answer begs the question. How did they squeeze more out of the drivers while paying them less?"
No better job to go to?
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Amazon wasn't forced to pay $15/hr. They decided to freely do so ... which i'll admit comes ahead of an eventual bill that would have cost them significantly more.
Still, they do set a new standard which will drag up a lot of other companies around them. I still wonder what happened to uber. Their rates have gone up, not down, yet drivers seem to be making substantially less than just a few years ago. Too many cars idling and not getting rides? Uber increased their cut? Something else?
Uber is already dead, it's just that they don't know it.
No-one involved in Uber is making any money, not the drivers, not Uber, not anyone. It seems the business model of "illegally undercut taxis" isn't a sustainable one because we're quickly finding out that the costs of taxi fares barely covers the costs of running a taxi.
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Uber's rates have actually gone down, but they are taking a higher percentage of the overall charge to the customer and giving less to the driver. The per-trip fees have increased even though the per mile fee has decreased. The driver gets the per-mile fee.
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Re:A lot will (Score:4, Insightful)
Any fair analysis would tag the vehicle as a business expense, because it is a necessity for the business.
A few things.
Does "fair analysis" as used here mean roughly what the IRS considers a 'business' and what it does *not* consider a 'business'? In order to be considered a 'business' it must clear some hurdles.
For example, would someone, let's say a musician/singer, who plays at the local coffee shop for two hours once a month for $75 be a 'business'? Because the IRS would call it a 'hobby enterprise' at best where you simply file a 1099 with your normal return.
There are also other hurdles and tests it must meet to be a business. An Uber driver who met those hurdles would likely be considered a personal transportation contractor.
Back to the music scene, if that coffee shop musician played a couple hours 5 nights a week, would that make him an employee due minimum wage and company benefits?
If he only wants to play a few hours a month and is fine with making less than $10/hr because he does it for fun and publicity along with a little extra guitar-string money and makes less than $10/hr, should the government stop him? If an Uber driver just wants to drive a few hours here and there and is fine with netting less than $10/hr after expenses, should the government stop him?
These are some of the questions that must be answered.
Strat
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"If an Uber driver just wants to drive a few hours here and there and is fine with netting less than $10/hr after expenses, should the government stop him? These are some of the questions that must be answered."
Why would the gov stop him?
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Why would the gov stop him?
Labor laws including but not limited to minimum-wage laws if they are considered employees rather than independent contract workers.
Of course the government would not go after him as that would look bad, so they go after the business he contracts for. Same with the musician, they'd go after the coffee shop owners which, if they haven't the money to pay employee wages for a part-time one-man singer/guitarist act, means they effectively stop him by removing the option to choose to do it.
Strat
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"if they are considered employees rather than independent contract workers."
Do labor laws in the US consider uber drivers or coffee shop musicians the same no matter how many hours they work ?
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Do labor laws in the US consider uber drivers or coffee shop musicians the same no matter how many hours they work ?
Well, in the US the individual has (had?) the right to work as a free agent, to enter into a contract with another for his or her labor as long as it was not breaking the law in any way.
It seems that, more and more, it's been determined by the more Left-leaning in the US that people are not the best arbiters of their own best interests and that government should insert itself into any & every contractual agreement and set arbitrary preconditions, boundaries, and limits. While many are implemented with g
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"If an Uber driver just wants to drive a few hours here and there and is fine with netting less than $10/hr after expenses, should the government stop him? These are some of the questions that must be answered."
Why would the gov stop him?
Honestly, I don't care too much for the plight of the uber driver. They knowingly work for a corrupt and immoral company. They're the 21st Century equivalent of the 20th Century telemarketer. You work for evil- I don't care if someone pretends to only speak French with a smattering of English to you- or alternates between whispering and shouting when talking to you. I also don't care how little you get paid whilst supporting evil.
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You are right, "$5 per hour in expenses" is a ridiculous metric. Which is why no one else uses it.
More typical is a mileage rate. That is ~ 50 cents per mile.
Now imagine driving at Lyft / Uber customer at 60 mph. In one hour your vehicle will have incurred $30 worth of cost, not $5.
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Doesn't matter. The wear and tear on city streets is likely substantially greater -- brakes, tires, suspension, transmission all take vastly more damage in stop and go, even if you save on fewer oil changes that cost near nothing.
So, yeah, a flat per mile number is probably wrong, but it is not wrong in a way that counters justthinkit's point -- probably it makes his/her point even stronger.
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Which isn't going to happen. Other countries have much higher minimum wages without higher inflation, so find a new corporatist talking point.
Re:Go to Amazon (Score:5, Insightful)
So you can sneer at them a second time for taking on student loans they couldn't afford?
Ciaco CCNA: $400, Masters degree: $5,600 (Score:2)
Taking on student loans you can't afford and won't be able to afford is pretty silly, especially if you get a degree in Iranian History or Women's Studies at a private university for $60,000.
My Cisco CCNA cost me $400. ($300 for the exam, $100 for study materials, YouTube study videos free). The payback period from the salary increase was well less than a year. I've now quadrupled my income after earning six certifications.
My masters degree in computer science from Georgia Tech will cost $5,600. That's $7,
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pretty silly, especially if you get a degree in Iranian History or Women's Studies at a private university for $60,000.
Your anecdote covers .01% of the degrees. Most people are studying very common things. Trying to make practical choices within the bounds of their skill set. Kudos to you for being a GA Tech Grad. You will probably make one third the amount that someone with school connections and a C in Business Administration is going to make -- you know, your boss. You may have the math and programming chops to make a good living like a few other people -- or you could end up in tech support in a few years because everyo
so which one is yours? (Score:2)
So is your excuse that you're bad at math, or you think your Business Adminstration degree is going to earn hundreds or thousands more than my masters in Comp Sci?
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Because all poor people have $400, an internet connection, leisure time and more importantly, a job waiting for them. Make as many rehashes of the bootstrap cliche, but people can't make employment materialize through sheer force of will.
You forgot to mention the DeLorean and traveling ba
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https://www.omscs.gatech.edu/p... [gatech.edu]
Again, you can spend $50,000 if you want to, or you can keep working at 7 Eleven if you choose. I'm getting my masters in a high-paying field for $5,000. What you do is your choice.
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Your $5000 buys you ten credit hours according to your own link. Not including fees. No one offers a masters degree for ten credits. You gonna put down the shovel, or do you want to keep digging into this fantasy you've constructed of the world?
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Err, 30 credits. Which is about half what you need from a tech school for an AS diploma. Not a bachelors degree, much less a masters.
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http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/pr... [gatech.edu]
"You gonna put down the shovel, or do you want to keep digging"
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So you're just gonna leave out the previous $40,000+ for the undergrad degree, because masters fall from trees in your world.
No, I don't think you should - as massively full of shit as you are, you'll need some place to put it all.
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> So you're just gonna leave out the previous $40,000+ for the undergrad degree
https://www.wgu.edu/financial-... [wgu.edu]
Average cost of $15,000 minus $3,000 tax credit = $12,00
Want to dig some more, or maybe now you know that some of us found a way to a six-figure salary without any student loan debt at all, you could consider that you could do the same. You could trade in your excuses for a $100,000 / year X 10 years = $1 million. Which would you rather have, a million dollars, or your excuse? Your choice.
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Says the guy with the only connection between his self-taught CCNA certification and a master's degree being $5k and the excrement between his ears. According to the guy's own wording.
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It's more fun to laugh at them for picking the wrong career or stock investment.
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Suuuuure. And when you graduate with five figures in student loan debt - just in time for the second dot com bubble to pop? When the new BA's are competing for entry level jobs with people who have masters degrees and fifteen years of experience? And that's before we even get to the offshoring and H1B's....
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this is how you get a website full of james damores
Re: Go to Amazon (Score:2)
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If any one of us had made better life choices, we wouldn't be posting on Slashdot.
Hey look at these poor people, if only they made similar decisions that I did, they wouldn't be as poor.
Hey look at these middle class people, if only they didn't spend their money on luxuries for the first 20 years of their adult life, they would be wealthy now!
For a lot of poor people, they grew up in an environment where succeeding in education isn't an option. Home life isn't suited for sitting down and studying, and schoo
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"Provided you have the will power, no one needs to live a life of misery teetering on the edge of poverty."
So like if your tall you can reach higher ?
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Amazon cut their workers pay.
Amazon workers used to make more than $15 when total compensation is taken into account. Amazon has switched to a flat $15 which is a cut in pay.
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And after factoring in the car needed to get them to the job site every morning and back at night, how much of that do you think is left?
Had my eyes dilated (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, $20k is below the poverty threshold for a family of one. Screw the gov't for not raising it. I don't think it's been raised significantly since I was a wee lad.
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$20k is below the poverty threshold for a family of one.
Not every job should be required to pay enough to let you afford your own place. Find a roommate while you work on your skillset.
Most Uber drivers have another job that is their main income. 80% are part time drivers. 20% drive less than 10 hours per week.
Re:Had my eyes dilated (Score:5, Insightful)
To anyone who wants everyone to earn a living wage, find something that you can pay them to do that will afford them that living. The sad truth is that there are some people who lack the skills, aptitude, or desire to be able to earn a living. It's not a mater of personal failing either, unless you think people choose to be born mentally retarded or otherwise disabled that prohibits work. I suspect that most people are more than willing to help the truly incapable, but there are lot of people who are in that situation entirely by choice, either a refusal to work jobs they're capable of (but somehow they think are beneath them) or through a history a poor decisions that have left them with nothing.
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The sad truth is that there are some people who lack the skills, aptitude, or desire to be able to earn a living.
Ask anyone that employs entry-level service people (cashiers, short order cooks, dish washers, stocking, etc..) and you will find its neither skill nor aptitude that is lacking, and obviously desire is meaningless here. The people in the endless entry-level cycle are skilled enough to do the job, and of course want a better job and better pay, but they lack responsibility. The primary qualification for service industry jobs is showing up to work when you are scheduled to show up and these people habitually
Re: Had my eyes dilated (Score:2)
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PHD is the new High school and US people have 250K (Score:2)
PHD is the new High school and US people have 250K loans vs others with no loans and much lower costs.
And you may be better off not working vs working at min wage with no benefits and a big loan to pay back.
Re:Had my eyes dilated (Score:4, Insightful)
If a business doesn't pay a living wage, that business doesn't deserve to exist.
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I don't think these two sentiments are at odds.
It's perfectly fair to say that sharing a house is a livable condition.
It'd be a struggle to do that (or even impossible) on 20k year where I live (and cover any unexpected costs and save for retirement), but I'd say living in an unshared life is a luxury pretty far up the list.
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If a business doesn't pay a living wage, that business doesn't deserve to exist.
Your ideals are naive. Good luck on making Wal-Mart not exist. :)
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Walmart is paying $20 billion to shareholders. With that money, it could boost hourly wages to over $15. [vox.com]
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And then people like you wonder why they end up in the gulag, spending a couple decades thinking about their priorities while digging ditches.
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Uh, yeah, people who place their boot on the necks of the poor and working class are surprised when those people have enough and come for their necks. What was your point again?
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Uh, yeah, people who place their boot on the necks of the poor and working class ...
Most people that died in the Soviet Gulags were poor and working class. The biggest determinant of who died was not class, but ethnicity, with Ukrainian peasants getting the worst of it.
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You mean Tartars, not Ukrainians. ... because: they are the same.
Ukrainians are by ethnicity indistinguishable from Russians
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The poor and the working class were the revolution. The people who went to the gulag were the aristocrats and their lackeys, the bourgeois shitbags.
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A common conservative refrain - but like all conservative refrains, it's bullshit. Labor is a cost, one that all companies will try to minimize whether the minimum wage is 20 cents or 20 dollars an hour. No company hires extra workers out of the goodness of their capitalist hearts.
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Because workers can just materialize a decent wage with a decent boss through sheer force of will, asshat.
Re: Had my eyes dilated (Score:3)
"Not every job should be required to pay enough to let you afford your own place."
It's a race to the bottom - and we're gonna WIN!
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Not every job should be required to pay enough to let you afford your own place.
Actually it should. Especially if it is a 50h - 60h per week job.
Find a roommate while you work on your skillset. ... or sleeping in a SUV with a room mate?
In a single room, haha
Most Uber drivers have another job that is their main income. 80% are part time drivers. 20% drive less than 10 hours per week.
Why do you claim that? How many Uber drivers do you know in person?
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"Also, $20k is below the poverty threshold for a family of one."
Really?
2018 Poverty Guidelines for the 48 Contiguous States and the District of Columbia [federalregister.gov]
Persons in family/household Poverty guideline
1 $12,140
2 16,460
3 20,780
4 25,100
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Then they don't have to work the fucking job.
Seriously.
If someone said "I'll pay you $7/hour to dig a ditch" I'd simply say no thanks and get a job at McDonalds (or, as of recently Amazon) who easily pays $15+ or more.
Why do people think people are ENTITLED to do what they want and just demand they get paid a living wage in complete disregard for the economics of the work?
Re:Pffff (Score:5, Interesting)
It's downright sad to be sure but they're trading capital in their vehicle for income. When that capital is gone due to wear & tear they lose their income. Taxis were priced as they were for a reason - and it wasn't to become rich.
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Uber and Lyft both are now offering "rent to drive" options, where driver does not even own a car. They "rent" a vehicle from Lyft/Uber and then drive it. So, no wear and tear on their own vehicle, although of course their take home pay is even less and they are basically a completely hired employees (except for any benefits).
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Taxis never cost more than Uber/Lyft where I live.
They also would never show up when called. Uber/Lyft made a huge difference here. I don't really know what the appeal was in bigger cities with a functional cab market, but in my little city (Wilmington, DE) the appeal was a ride within 20 minutes at 2am or 6am both. I saw someone wait over 2 hours for a cab that they scheduled where I work. They pretty much onky show up for airport runs, and you can get them at the train station, maybe a hotel if they have
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Taxis never cost more than Uber/Lyft where I live.
They also would never show up when called. Uber/Lyft made a huge difference here. I don't really know what the appeal was in bigger cities with a functional cab market, but in my little city (Wilmington, DE) the appeal was a ride within 20 minutes at 2am or 6am both. I saw someone wait over 2 hours for a cab that they scheduled where I work. They pretty much onky show up for airport runs, and you can get them at the train station, maybe a hotel if they have a good relationship with a driver.
Sounds like regulation forced taxi prices to an artificially-low level, resulting in an insufficient number of taxis. Uber/Lyft tune their prices to a more "natural" level, making them more available.
Personally, I'd like to see an Uber/Lyft competitor that doesn't set prices at all, but instead facilitates a real-time auction market between drivers and riders, so that prices are truly supply/demand driven -- and drivers are inarguably independent businesspeople.
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Also,
unlike a cab company, Uber allows for people to pick up busy times with cars that have other primary purposes.
Here there's sufficient demand about 2 hours in the morning, 2 in the afternoon during the week, and then 2 hours in the evening and 2 in the late night during the weekend.
It'd unlikely a sufficient number of cabs to meet demand could be cars with that as their only intent.
Or if they did, they'd be too expensive, having only 4 busy hours a day.
Well I if didn't count my business expenses (Score:2)
to run my shop I would be making twice as much. No forced them to be an Uberneer.
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Yeah no one, just starvation, living naked in the streets and being used as target practice by the local county mounties and if you survive it is off to the for profit prison and slave labour. Yep, absolutely no one forcing them at all :/.
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Congratulations on getting the point. Working is a necessity, not a choice. And if the work available is driving for Uber for less than minimum wage after gas and maintenance, people will do it for a roof or food.
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Maybe on Planet Rand, where there are a dozen open jobs for every unemployed worker, and people "choose" to work for minimum wage instead of a $60k a year starting compensation with benefits.
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Who said that happened on any planet? Methinks you missed the (obvious) point.
As much as you "chose" not to be a billionaire or own your favorite sports team, sure.
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Who implied they did, on any planet?
Not if there aren't any opportunities, clown shoes. They can't make jobs appear out of thin air through sheer force of will anymore than you can meditate and find yourself owning your favorite sports team the next morning.
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Serves you right for being a Canadian.
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Reminds me at the cartoon I lately saw somewhere on the web.
Imagine 50er style 4 colour print.
Mom is cooking and her son asks:
"Mom, what is a Canadian?"
"Oh, Dear, that is a north american with no guns and health insurance"
"Doh!"
Re: Well I if didn't count my business expenses (Score:2)
"rideshare"
Found the Uber shill!
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Never promised a minimum.... (Score:2)
The real scam is the rental agreements... (Score:2)
Nothing showed me the "bad at math" tax more than talking to a driver who was renting their car via Lyft... at $250/week with insurance. They looked at it as they just need to drive 12 hours per week and the car is free. I understand extenuating circumstances, but talk about indentured servitude...
I really appreciate the fact that it is half the price of a taxi-- it means I don't have to rent a car and drive myself nearly as often, so potentially it is better in economic terms. At 20% more though, I don'
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If they drive enough hours (I believe 40 hours of what Lyft determined to be "peak time"), it actually is free (paid by Lyft) that week. It rapidly approaches a regular job at that point, since if you supply enough peak rides, the car costs (car, insurance, maintenance) is covered. Not gas though...
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Buuuut... (Score:2)
Not any Better for Everyone Else (Score:2)
According to Google the average cost per year for a car is $8000-$9000 which brings a $15 and hour salary down to about $11.
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Of course you can.... look at Rembrant arranging paint, or the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Or the invention of the airplane.
It may not have been BG who won, but someone would
"I KNOW BEST" he yelled.... (Score:2)
Well, gee, we should just let Hallux run our economy and then only perfectly just economic decisions would get made. You are entirely capable of determining what is fair for everyone to get paid for what they know and are capable of, right?
And if someone wants to pay someone more than you'll allow... well I guess you could have either the willing buyer of services or the willing seller of services imprisoned for trying to perform an unjust transaction!
In a free society, however, prices aren't set by a thir
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Not bad! (Score:2)
No skill required besides driving that everyone does anyway, no job interviews, no fixed hours. Car depreciation only needs to be paid off years later, which is a good tradeoff if you need cash now. So the main complaint is that an entry level job is... an entry level job. If you learn to drive a bus or a luxury limo, or do something that requires more skill than just driving around, you can get more.
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Well, it's "ridesharing", right? (Score:2)
Is this ridesharing, where the title suggest that you're just sharing your vehicle on the way to a prescheduled event. Or are these people professional taxi drivers?
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