Amazon Picks New York, Northern Virginia For HQ2 [Update: Confirmed] (washingtonpost.com) 224
The Washington Post is reporting that Amazon has picked New York's Long Island City and Arlington County's Crystal City neighborhoods as the company's second headquarters (Warning: source paywalled; alternative source). The two locations will split the duty and will reportedly bring the cities an infusion of jobs and tax revenue. From the report: Amazon will open major new outposts in Northern Virginia's Crystal City and New York City, splitting its much-sought investment of up to 50,000 jobs between the two East Coast sites. The choice of Crystal City in Arlington County as one of the winners would cement Northern Virginia's reputation as a magnet for business and potentially reshape the Washington region into an East Coast outpost of Silicon Valley over the next decade.
It also represents a victory for New York Mayor Bill de Blasio (D) and Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo (D), who had joked that he would change his name to "Amazon Cuomo" if necessary to land the prize. Amazon's decision to split the project rather than open a second headquarters on par with its Seattle campus has angered some who said the company had ginned up competition among cities only to change the rules midstream. Some said it was unfair that the company seemed to be considering only sites in more affluent communities. Updated on November 13, 15:10 GMT: Amazon on Tuesday confirmed that it had selected New York City and Northern Virginia for new headquarters. In a statement, Jeff Bezos said, "We are excited to build new headquarters in New York City and Northern Virginia. These two locations will allow us to attract world-class talent that will help us to continue inventing for customers for years to come. The team did a great job selecting these sites, and we look forward to becoming an even bigger part of these communities."
It also represents a victory for New York Mayor Bill de Blasio (D) and Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo (D), who had joked that he would change his name to "Amazon Cuomo" if necessary to land the prize. Amazon's decision to split the project rather than open a second headquarters on par with its Seattle campus has angered some who said the company had ginned up competition among cities only to change the rules midstream. Some said it was unfair that the company seemed to be considering only sites in more affluent communities. Updated on November 13, 15:10 GMT: Amazon on Tuesday confirmed that it had selected New York City and Northern Virginia for new headquarters. In a statement, Jeff Bezos said, "We are excited to build new headquarters in New York City and Northern Virginia. These two locations will allow us to attract world-class talent that will help us to continue inventing for customers for years to come. The team did a great job selecting these sites, and we look forward to becoming an even bigger part of these communities."
You'd think (Score:5, Insightful)
if you were planning on more than one location, you wouldn't pick the same coast, because of hurricanes and similar electrical grids.
Re: (Score:3)
To be fair this is their 2nd and 3rd location. Their 1st location is on the west coast.
Re: (Score:2)
Also, Northern Virginia and Long Island are nearly 300 miles apart. They are not both going to be hit by one storm.
Re:You'd think (Score:5, Insightful)
300 miles apart, last hurricane that hit the area was what 450-500mi across? Yep, not going to be hit by one storm at all. Or those 750-1300mi long rain/snow/ice/freezing rain storms that are common through the plains-texas-georgia then smashing up along the east coast because of all that warm tropical air. Just think a little bit, a winter storm in the US can knock out electricity from Ontario Canada through to Georgia to Kentucky, dump 3' of snow all along the east coast along I75, and you can have another day or two of it still coming at you with a complete mixed bag including a few inches of freezing rain, and the tail end of it is spawning t-storms in Florida.
Storms (Score:2)
Also, Northern Virginia and Long Island are nearly 300 miles apart. They are not both going to be hit by one storm.
Not true. Hurricanes are routinely wide enough [ucar.edu] to hit both locations at the same time. Average diameter of a hurricane is around 300 miles. And it would be quite possible for a storm to hit DC and then move north to NYC.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
no, to stay close to wall street as they push their cloud offerings to the execs and traders there.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:You'd think (Score:5, Insightful)
Might also be that Bezos has houses in both cities and both planned locations are within something like 6 miles of his places...
Almost seems like this was some big con doesn't it?
yes but that's okay (Score:2)
It's perfectly legitimate for an employee to negotiate a raise when they have offers from other companies. Likewise it's perfectly fine for Amazon to ask for tax breaks and to shop around for a better deal before accepting the offer of the city they most prefer.
It's not a scam. It's negotiating from strength.
Re:yes but that's NOT okay (Score:5, Interesting)
But it's not perfectly fine for Cuomo and de Blasio to give said tax breaks.
NYC is if not the highest, then close to the highest taxed city in the nation.
We have a federal, a state, and a city graduated income tax. And believe you me, everything else has a tax or a fee here.
Amazon is going to put significant load on the city. Rents are going to go up, the MTA will be further overloaded.
They want to be at the center of the financial world, fine. Let them pay the taxes everybody else pays.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure NYC acted in it's own best interests. It's a complex set of things to balance.
Re: (Score:3)
Well - certainly the politicians acted in their own best interests. NYC politicians are really, really good at that.
Re: (Score:2)
Even if true this doesn't seem like it would be a deciding factor for a person who could buy a house adjacent to any piece of property pretty much anywhere. Oh, you want $10M for a $400k house, but it shaves my commute from an hour to 5 minutes, and I make close to $2.5M an hour. Seems like a good deal.
Re: You'd think (Score:5, Interesting)
50,000 jobs weren't all going to be 'new to the company', maybe not even mostly. Surely a number would be high level transfers from other locations, including DC and NY. Executives avoid moving as much as anyone, while some will make the jump to a new city, most will stay 'closer to home' (often family) and resist moving power to a new complex. So there might have been very real internal forces pulling them 'home'.
Also, while Amazon called it a search for HQ2, it's not uncommon for a company to have divisional HQs. The division which would easily be likely to gain its own HQ would be AWS. However, AWS has a growth problem in that many retailers (and some other companies) while they like the platform, don't like adding to a competitor's bottom line. Add to a market cap which is creating its own weather (e.g. disproportionately affecting it) in the stock market and regulators sniffing around a forced breakup and you could understand the wisdom of Amazon doing it on their own terms. So I think that this has always been a search for a home of a spit off AWS and there is also a decent chance that they'll spit into a third company (perhaps software), with a choice of two HQ2s this seems likely.
have a long shot guess that the reason why it took so long is that Amazon will announce both the HQs and the split up at the same time.
Worst possible places IMHO (Score:5, Insightful)
massively overcrowded, horrific traffic, insane cost of living.
Unless someone likes living in an over crowded over priced city with a pile of east coasters.....No thanks!
Re:Worst possible places IMHO (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're driving in either of these places you're doing it wrong. Find the nearest park and ride, take train, profit.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Worst possible places IMHO (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
NYC has its advantages...
(a) culture, theater, etc
(b) public university is cheap, like cheaper than the UC system and great. Many of the CUNY schools have affiliations with research institutions, so it's easy for undergrads to do research
(c) you can walk or take public transit most places. Your kids can be independent, not dependent on a car or having someone to pick them up
(d) a lot of really interesting people -- diversity is a good thing.
Re: (Score:2)
Aren't (a) and (d) the same thing? Also you described most major cities in most states and small towns in lots of states.
Re: (Score:3)
You can find all of that with a reasonable commute in a city 10% the size of NYC. Hell, even 5% the size of NYC. And the cost of living will be something like 50% less.
Visit NCY to see some of the best theater and museums in the US. But live somewhere reasonable so you can be happy and prosperous.
NYC is fine but so are other places (Score:3)
NYC has its advantages...
Of course it does. That many people don't live there by accident.
(a) culture, theater, etc
You think these things don't exist elsewhere? NYC has great options to be sure but so do pretty much every other large city in the US. Folks from NYC like to imagine they have options nobody else has which simply isn't true. I live in the midwest and can be in a world class art museum within 60 minutes of leaving my house. My metro area has opera, playhouses, excellent museums, major universities, outstanding restaurants,
(b) public university is cheap, like cheaper than the UC system and great. Many of the CUNY schools have affiliations with research institutions, so it's easy for undergrads to do research
There are public u
Re: (Score:2)
Not needing a car is a HUGE increase in independence for YOUR KIDS, who can't drive, though. They can walk themselves to school after age 10 or so, take public transit to/from high school and after-school events.
Fair point about limitations of public transit in the US: also one of the reasons why I'd probably want to live somewhere outside the US if not in NYC.
As far as parkland, if you're talking about a 10-15 miles radius of NYC, we probably do have 16,000 acres of parkland. NYC isn't only Manhattan, an
Public transit vs independence (Score:3)
Not needing a car is a HUGE increase in independence for YOUR KIDS, who can't drive, though.
It really isn't. Where I live children can walk to their friends houses, quite a few can walk to school, they can walk most areas of our town, the movie theater, and they can easily get rides places even if I'm not there to provide them. I'm not really sure how you think they are being limited without the sort of public transit available in NYC. Sure they need cars sometimes too but this is hardly some huge crimp on their lifestyle. I went to college on the east coast not far from NYC and I've spent l
Re: (Score:2)
Carpool/bus = still dependent on a vehicle, and not getting the exercise/independence that they'd get from making their own way to/from school. The opportunity and flexibility created by a public transit system are great -- many HS kids actually can get to things like after-school research jobs at universities, tech firms, or hospitals without a car.
Similar parks? I'll raise you South Mountain Reservation in NJ, within the 20-mile radius of which you speak. Also, Palisades Park goes up the Hudson directl
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
re: commuter rail (Score:3)
This is the truth! I live in Brunswick, MD (origin point for the "Brunswick line" for the MARC commuter rail line in Maryland). CSX constantly does anything in its power to disrupt the MARC and make it appear the lines are overcrowded. Since I live about a block from the train yard, I can tell when pretty much every train passes through. And it's quite common that there will be no train coming through for hours at a time, but during the time window when the MARC runs? Mysteriously, they have all of this fr
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Robots don't commute, never sleep and don't worry about "cost of living". Amazon is planning for the future of fulfillment, not today's fulfillment.
Re: (Score:2)
I live in one of the finalist cities, and I am nothing but relieved that we weren't chosen.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Virginia has one of the lower tax burdens in the country, though you may be right for NY.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"Functional public transit" - for a given definition of functional.
Albany let the MTA rot for years, relying on the fact that it was specced out and designed during the depression era, and massively over engineered to withstand years of neglect. The folks who built it said, "We just went through this, it could happen again, let's make sure that it it does, it doesn't wipe out the trains." But the politicians looked at this during times of prosperity, and said, "Hey, the train's will keep running. Why bot
Re: (Score:2)
The subway exists and covers extensive parts of the city. Which is more that can be said for most American sprawled-out excuses for cities.
But yes, NYC would be a better place without upstate hayseeds from Albany controlling its purse strings. NY state should really be split in two, with anything below Poughkeepsie and east of the Hudson being its own state.
Re: (Score:2)
Unless someone likes living in an over crowded over priced city
If people didn't like living there, it wouldn't be overcrowded, would it?
It seems to me that the Northern Virginia location, aside from being near Bezos' DC house, makes sense - the DC area has (one of, at least) the highest percent of college grads in the country. If you want to hire a bunch of smart/educated people, it's clearly one of the areas you'd look at.
Re: Worst possible places IMHO (Score:2)
Turns out there's like almost 100 million people who want to to live in crowded East coast cities.
Re: (Score:2)
Want to, or think they have to to get ahead?
I've been to a lot of small and medium sized cities in the US, and most of them would make a great place to settle down and have a nice life. No, you're not going to work for a megacorp there and make six figures, but you're going to do decently well, and will own a nice house for less than a one bedroom rental on the coasts.
The folks I meet on business in their coastal cities love to show them off almost as much as they love to bitch about them. When I ask why th
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
For employees, yes, for company, no (Score:2)
Yes those are indeed horrible places to live.
However what they are is very good lobbying positions so Amazon can grow unchecked, regardless of whatever theater mask rests atop the massive all-consuming blob that is government.
Glad I didn't bet against Amazon!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
massively overcrowded, horrific traffic, insane cost of living.
These are all within a few miles of Bezos's other two houses - that's why they're the best possible locations.
The Golden Ticket Contest was just to get those places to give Amazon tax breaks or whatever - there wasn't really ever a competition. Some people will call it clever, some will call it devilishly clever.
Re: (Score:2)
As a transplant to the DC Metro area for my job, I largely agree.
There are a couple things to consider though:
1. The Crystal City, VA location for the new Amazon HQ really only replaces the number of people who used to work there before government made some cutbacks and changes. Crystal City is pretty much a city full of tall office buildings from the 1970's and 80's, with a whole set of underground tunnels connecting them together with strip mall type food places, shoe shine people, and the like inside the
Re: (Score:2)
But these two locations just happen to be close to places where Jeff Bezos owns houses.
Must just be an amazing coincidence.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And nothing has changed (Score:5, Interesting)
I had been hoping that Amazon would choose a city that could handle to have a large company like Amazon show up; instead, Amazon picked two cities/regions that already have ridiculous issues with real estate. NYC at least has a semi-functional public transit system, but my understanding with DC is that the metro doesn't stretch out far enough to accommodate most people living in the suburbs, resulting in long commutes. There are a number of cities that would have been a better choice and probably handled Amazon's impact on real estate much better (Atlanta, Austin, Dallas, Miami).
Re:And nothing has changed (Score:5, Informative)
The HQ2 contest was a scam all along, Bezels has already decided where he wanted to put the new HQs and indeed Bozos already had residences at those 2 new cities not far from where the new HQs will be. It was a ploy by Beelze' to reduce taxes as much as possible and of course it worked.
Re:And nothing has changed (Score:5, Informative)
PS
https://www.charlotteobserver.... [charlotteobserver.com]
"Amazon.com this month narrowed down 238 applicants for its second headquarters to 20 cities, but experts say it got something even from the losing bidders: A rich trove of information that can benefit the company for years to come."
"To dozens of cities across the United States, Amazonâ(TM)s widely publicized search for a âoesecond headquartersâ looked like thousands of new jobs, up for grabs. To Pivot co-host Scott Galloway, it now looks like a âoeruse.â
https://www.recode.net/2018/11... [recode.net]
"I lease office space all the time for my businesses and I always tell my real estate agent, âWe can lease any office in the world as long as I can walk there from where I live,â(TM)â Galloway said on the latest episode. âoeAmazon is now talking about having three headquarters, Seattle, Crystal City and Long Island City. The Bezosâ(TM)s also own three homes, and the average distance from those three homes to a headquarters is 6.4 miles."
Re: (Score:3)
The idea that he wasted everyone's time is non-trivial.
I wonder if there's a reasonably-obvious case for fraud here - with penalties at least for the time / cost of all the various cities and staffs, and (best) if it resulted in a federal block on whatever tax giveaways were offered at those new locations? (Or would that be a Bill of Attainder?)
I mean, does anyone really believe it's COINCIDENCE his houses are 6 miles from the new locations? Does he have a lot of other houses in other candidate cities?
And Bezels should be Charged (Score:2)
I'm guessing that your device changed "Bezos" to "Bezels" - stupid autocorrect.
As for the idea that the location(s) were predetermined, shouldn't this be investigated by state/federal authorities for offering a deceptive tender? A lot of people went through a lot of work to put in bids that would never have been considered seriously.
Re: (Score:2)
The level of concrete evidence would need to be higher, doesn't matter if it's blindingly obvious.
Re: (Score:3)
The HQ2 contest was a scam all along, Bezels has already decided where he wanted to put the new HQs and indeed Bozos already had residences at those 2 new cities not far from where the new HQs will be. It was a ploy by Beelze' to reduce taxes as much as possible and of course it worked.
My thoughts exactly! The choice of NY and DC as your headquarters was clearly a foregone conclusion. They obviously knew before the contest started that these were the locations. You don't move into NY or DC for a tax reasons or for good employees, you do it because you want the influence that comes in having a presence in those areas.
You want to conquer the world, these locations are your venue.
Re:And nothing has changed (Score:5, Informative)
I had been hoping that Amazon would choose a city that could handle to have a large company like Amazon show up; instead, Amazon picked two cities/regions that already have ridiculous issues with real estate. NYC at least has a semi-functional public transit system, but my understanding with DC is that the metro doesn't stretch out far enough to accommodate most people living in the suburbs, resulting in long commutes. There are a number of cities that would have been a better choice and probably handled Amazon's impact on real estate much better (Atlanta, Austin, Dallas, Miami).
I see you have never been to Atlanta, Austin, Dallas, or Miami. None of those places have adequate transit, already have terrible traffic, and, in the case of Miami, incredibly expensive real estate. I'm just really glad that my city did not get chosen.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Crystal City has historically high vacancy rates (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
NYC at least has a semi-functional public transit system,
It's overcrowded, and it's already getting worse without Amazon. That's not a good argument, either.
There are a number of cities that would have been a better choice and probably handled Amazon's impact on real estate much better (Atlanta, Austin, Dallas, Miami).
HaHAHA you're talking about transportation issues and then suggesting Austin? You have no idea what you're on about. Commute traffic there is beyond abominable.
Re: (Score:2)
I was really hoping they would go to Newark, NJ. You still get access to the NYC talent market. Newark is a town that always seems on the cusp of being reborn, but its been rocky at best. If anything would push it forward, Amazon would. There is tons of under utilized space available there (though I heard they wanted 500k sq ft, newly built and ready to occupy ASAP). I don't know long term how many people would commute from NYC to Newark, but the trains are pretty much empty going in the opposite direction
Maybe Just Make their own city. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
eh, the whole of the US will be an Amazon company town soon enough. I don't think it's much hyperbole to suggest that if people could pay mortgage/rent in Amazon gift cards, many people wouldn't need the normal financial system at all. Work at Amazon, get paid in gift cards. Shop only at Whole Foods (just stick to the 360-brand), live in Amazon Apartments that are heated in the winter with the excess heat pumped out of AWS data centers. I mean, why not, right?
It used to be about every six months I get hit
Re: (Score:2)
With Blackjack! And Hookers! [youtube.com]
Walking distance to Bezos' homes (Score:3, Informative)
The fix was in. Ha ha if you thought there was an actual competition for the HQ. Should have sold him a new residence first...
I bet the recipients gave out the full set of perks even though the site was split so they get only half the jobs if that. Tricked again. No wonder that he has billions and they have to lean on the taxpayers again.
In my own case, a VP moved the whole division 25 miles so he could be closer to his hockey rink. Though in that case, he happened to shorten my commute to 3 miles.
Re: Walking distance to Bezos' homes (Score:2)
Crystal City = Pentagon (Score:5, Interesting)
Going after military money, makes sense to me.
Lucky them (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Amazon changed the terms of the deal. I would revoke the incentives entirely... Jeff offered to take 50% of the offers.. how nice of him.
One thing is for sure... (Score:2)
New York Mayor Bill de Blasio (D) and Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo (D), who had joked that he would change his name to "Amazon Cuomo" if necessary to land the prize.
deBlasio would have been safe making that joke- I'm pretty sure Amazon would leave him with the Bill.
Missed opportunity: Riker's Island (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Just put a door desk in every cell. Perfect fit for Amazon culture!
Dear Jeff, (Score:3)
Go fuck yourself.
Thanks.
I'm actually surprised (Score:2)
I live outside of NYC and I'm totally shocked. I'm sure they had to give the store away (ha ha) in terms of tax abatements and other giveaways, and that isn't New York's strong suit. From my experience, NY loses large corporate headquarters to North Carolina, Texas, Georgia and other states because those states will do anything to attract them. Even if the executive HQ doesn't move there, they'll make a deal to move the "support campus" to Dallas or Atlanta and suck out thousands of decent mid-level jobs. T
Amazon's Decision Tree (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
5,000 Corporate jobs in Nashville (Score:3)
"In addition, Amazon announced that it has selected Nashville for a new Center of Excellence for its Operations business, which is responsible for the companyâ(TM)s customer fulfillment, transportation, supply chain, and other similar activities. The Operations Center of Excellence in Nashville will create more than 5,000 jobs with an average wage of over $150,000."
Any Questions???? (Score:2)
HQ:2 NYC - EMPIRE STATE holds most world corporate headquarters; capitalism capitol
HQ:2.1 DC - CAPITAL of US
Thankful they didn't pick Indy! (Score:2)
I'm glad that they're going someplace that's already ruined by coastal liberals so they won't "Californicate" anywhere else!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
No shit, sherlock! That's why Californicate is in quotes. You don't have to be from California to Californicate a nice place like Colorado or Arizona.
Re: (Score:2)
And since when is a wholesale/logistics company considered tech?
Amazon makes most of their profit on AWS. They are primarily a cloud-services company. The retailing is just a side business.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, my. This is hilarious!
We have three income taxes (city, state, federal), sales tax, property tax, fees on everything imaginable.
Rent control and stabilization has just become part of the cesspool of corruption that spans government and the housing/rental industry. The government sets the rent increases, controls how many buildings can be built - all to keep the prices high. Landlords get rich, politicians get re-elected. But don't even try to tell me that the free market is at work in this thing. N
Re: (Score:2)
No, government taxes, by any name - be it income tax or usage fee or levy or whatever - absolutely do tend to indicate a socialist system when everything that is done, traded, sold, observed, ate, drank, driven, lived on or in, or used in any way, has a fee or tax or levy associated with it.
The entire rent control system and borough rent control boards are as socialist as it gets. They actually wind up driving rents up artificially, as the market can't play.
Too, there is this concept here that the governme
Re: (Score:2)
You'll have to ask Governor Amazon Cuomo. Or Make Other People Pay the Bill de Blasio.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, the marijuana enforcement means that me, a non-smoker, has to deal with it in my apartment because there is nothing to stop the neighbors from hot boxing their apartment, which leads it to coming into mine. Great fun in the dead of winter!
And - I'm sure you'd have loved riding the trains in the 70's-90's. You might have a slightly different opinion of the NYPD if you had.
Re: (Score:2)
Same as with tobacco smoke, you have remedies in civil court and landlord-tenant court. Or with the co-op/condo board if you happen to own your apartment. It can even be legal and still be a nuisance under civil law.
I liked NYC in the 90s before Rudy fucked it up, to be honest. Cheaper cost of living, clubs open late, you could walk from one train car to another if someone was being an ass without risking having an NYPD swine give you a fine.
Re: (Score:2)
I've been waiting for this big "ho hum" of an announcement since that ridiculous "competition" began---(i.e., politicians debasing themselves to win the temporary favor of a megacorporation). This whole circus was akin to competing to host the Olympics. A lot of cities dodged a bullet.
The news this morning was reporting an average $104K for the new employees. That average is likely pretty heavily skewed to that level by the executives' salaries who'll be working in the new locations---no word on what the A
Re: (Score:2)
Seattle can kiss hundreds of millions of tax dollars and thousands of good jobs good bye thanks to their horrible city management.
While that's probably true, it has little to do with Amazon. Amazon was only offering a small handful of good jobs, and a bunch of crap ones. That's much of the point of their business model, they only need a relatively small number of skilled employees.
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, variant number 2 on the old "socialism hasn't ever worked because we've never done it right" argument.
Pro Tip: All the "real" socialists become de Blasio clones when they get some actual power. Has always gone that way, and always will.
Strange way to promote (Score:2)
It sounds like New York City and Crystal City actively worked to impress Amazon.
They accomplished this by being within a few miles of where Jeff Bezos already had purchased homes [time.com] apparently.
Re: (Score:3)
GNAA Post
You fail it. You will never troll as hard as Amazon trolled 20 cities with their HQ2 "selection" con game. It is the most epic troll of my lifetime. The cities were obviously chosen ahead of time.
If you doubt that, consider the following: JeffB has 3 houses. Amazon will have 3 HQs. The average distance between a HQ and a JeffB house will be 6-7 miles (depending on exact location). The whole thing was a con game to bilk the cities.