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Businesses The Almighty Buck United States News

As More Retailers Ban Paper Money, It's Making Things Awkward For Customers Without Plastic (wsj.com) 698

An anonymous reader shared a report: Sam Schreiber was mid-shampoo at a Drybar blow-dry salon in Los Angeles when someone from the front desk approached her stylist with an emergency: a woman was trying to pay for her blow-out with cash. "There was this beat of silence," says Ms. Schreiber, 33 years old. "She literally brought $40." More and more businesses like Drybar don't want your money -- the paper kind at least. It's making things awkward for those who come ill prepared. After all, you can't give back a hairdo, an already dressed salad or the two beers you already drank. The salad chain Sweetgreen has stopped accepting cash in nearly all its locations.

Most Dig Inns -- which serve locally sourced, healthy fast food -- won't take your bills either. Starbucks went cashless at a Seattle location in January, and at some pubs in the U.K., you can no longer get a pint with pound notes. The practice of not accepting cash has become popular enough to catch the attention of American lawmakers. [...] Despite the popularity of debit- and credit-card transactions, plenty of people do still pay for things with actual money. Cash represented 30% of all transactions and 55% of those under $10, according to a Federal Reserve survey of 2,800 people conducted in October 2017.


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As More Retailers Ban Paper Money, It's Making Things Awkward For Customers Without Plastic

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  • Legal Tender (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:03PM (#57879708)

    For all debts, public and private.

    Leave it on the counter and walk out.

    • Re:Legal Tender (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:13PM (#57879752)

      There are two reasons that a business can reject cash even if it is “legal tender for all debts public and private.”

      First, this statement means that the only circumstance when someone must accept the bill is when a person owes the business a debt. If no debt has been incurred, a person or business is not legally required to take U.S. currency.

      Let us say it is very late at night and you need gasoline for your car. Many gas stations in the U.S. do not take large bills late at night to prevent robberies and theft. If the gas station requires customers to pay for gas before pumping it into their car, they have the legal right to refuse US$50 and $100 bills. They do not have to accept large bills because until the customer has put gas into the car, the customer does not owe the station owner anything. However, if the customer is allowed to pump gasoline into the car first and then pay, the owner must accept all types of U.S. bills because the customer has a debt to pay.

      http://theconversation.com/if-... [theconversation.com]

      • Re:Legal Tender (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:15PM (#57879768)

        I'm the OP, and I absolutely agree with you. However, TFS posited a situation in which the debt is already incurred.

    • Re:Legal Tender (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jwhyche ( 6192 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:26PM (#57879840) Homepage

      I have yet to see a single physical retailer turn down cash.

      • Re:Legal Tender (Score:4, Interesting)

        by jwymanm ( 627857 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:32PM (#57879888) Homepage
        Especially a Salon. That is insane... they live off of cash tips. Read: avoid taxes.
      • I have yet to see a single physical retailer turn down cash.

        Not in America. But some other countries are nearly cashless. Sweden and China are the furthest along.

        I spent two months in Shanghai last fall. Number of times I touched cash: 0.

        Even the panhandlers accept electronic payments via QR stickers on their signs.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Back when staying at the Playboy Club in NJ in the 1970's, I went to pay with cash. They said credit cards only. I offered a check, and they said no checks. I told them thankyou, my girlfriend and I had a wonderful weekend...at which point they got a manager and decided I could pay cash. BTW, that girlfriend is now my wife.

      • I have yet to see a single physical retailer turn down cash.

        UHaul, Hillsboro, Oregon, across from the airport.
        Would not take cash for a strapping set.

      • I have yet to see a single physical retailer turn down cash.

        Visit Stockholm sometime. I was there for an academic conference. The main university canteen refused cash and even a mobile food wagon was credit card only and refused cash. I've not seen that before or since but I have encountered it now. The problem with this is that credit cards charge a percentage fee for foreign currency transactions and some have a minimum on this fee which can make it really expensive for small value transactions.

    • Re:Legal Tender (Score:5, Informative)

      by dfenstrate ( 202098 ) <dfenstrate.gmail@com> on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:33PM (#57879908)

      For all debts, public and private.

      Leave it on the counter and walk out.

      Bingo. If you deliver services prior to obtaining payment, you must accept cash. Refusing to accept a cash payment after-the-fact would leave you without much recourse to collect in other ways. You're basically depending on the customer's kindness and patience with you.

      Starbucks is another matter because they collect when you place your order. They can go cashless because there is never a 'debt' involved with 'pay first.'

    • Re:Legal Tender (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anubis IV ( 1279820 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:35PM (#57879922)

      Exactly this. Already got a hairdo? Already had your salad dressed? Already drank two beers? You’re in their debt and they are legally required to accept cash as payment for that debt.

      The only way to go cashless is by charging up front, before any goods or services are rendered. I.e. They can refuse the business of anyone who will pay with cash, but they can’t refuse to accept cash for any business already done. That’s why a place like Starbucks can legally go cashless, and also why a typical sit-down restaurant can’t or won’t.

    • by mark-t ( 151149 )
      That would be stealing. Note it says for all *debts*. You don't owe them anything until they have either already offered you a service in advance of payment or given you a product on credit.
    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @02:16PM (#57880192)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @04:02PM (#57880824)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • by DogDude ( 805747 )
          Plastic is cheaper for us to process, even with the transaction fees because we don't have to handle cash, and all of the security / paperwork that goes along with it. we save a pile of money just in reduced accounting costs: No one has to go and manually tally up the til, We don't have to track which purchases were received on which days, and for what

          As somebody who has been in retail for more than a decade and a half, I have to say that whatever company you work for is either horribly managed, or just
        • You realize you just accused someone of being a thief and a vagrant as a response to someone making a strong opinion on a legal responsibility of a business being avoided?

          And then you explain how your business avoided modernizing and leapt right onto a single payment platform without making an effort to grow into a system that could easily handle all methods of payment easily. You even seem proud of this which is really odd.

          Your position is even stranger since many small businesses refuse credit cards to av

  • Why can't one of the hair stylists or other customers take the cash and pay with their credit card?

  • by ebcdic ( 39948 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:08PM (#57879724)

    "At some pubs in the U.K., you can no longer get a pint with pound notes." I'd be surprised if you can find any that accept them. Pound notes were withdrawn 30 years ago.

    • by Calydor ( 739835 )

      Semantics, the 1 Pound Note was withdrawn, but the rest of the paper money in Britain is still various numerations of pounds.

      • "Pound note" means a one pound note. If you're talking about a five pound note, there's a different name for that.

  • I have an idea: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fredrated ( 639554 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:09PM (#57879730) Journal

    accept cash or your services are free.

    • by mark-t ( 151149 )
      And unless you get a receipt, you can't prove you ever gave them cash. If they refuse to give you a receipt for a cash payment what do you do, right then and right there?
      • by DogDude ( 805747 )
        If they refuse to give you a receipt for a cash payment what do you do, right then and right there?

        Call the police.
  • really? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Hugh Jorgen ( 4906427 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:18PM (#57879788)
    Bringing legal cash tender is hardly ill prepared! Fuck this business and others like it. Though paying 40 bucks for someone to dry your hair is a serous first world problem to start with!
  • Power shifting (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lenski ( 96498 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:19PM (#57879796)

    Though cash can be stolen, it is way more difficult for "authorities" or whoever to revoke remotely. Plastic, charge cards, debit cards are all revocable. I am *very* wary of a shift to mechanisms that can produce financial disability by remote control.

    It's been increasingly true for large purchases, but this changeover to plastic for small purchases (as in "food", etc.) is comfortably convenient and OK until it's not.

    These issues are separate from the question of how many entities get to "participate in", as in "charge a fee for" all transactions, outside the ability of the actual paying customers to affect those decisions.

  • Discrimination (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DanielRavenNest ( 107550 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:21PM (#57879806)

    This discriminates against the "unbanked". About a third of US adults (including my long-term tenant), don't have a bank account, much less a credit card. There are many reasons for this - bounced a check/overdrew an account in the past, medical or job problems, etc. And for low income people, bank accounts can be expensive. BoA charges a service fee of $12 a month for balances below $1500. So my tenant just gets a money order to pay the rent, cause it is cheaper.

    Paper money states "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private". Once you have accepted a service, such as from a hair salon or restaurant, you now owe a debt until it is paid. So they should have to take cash, even though it may upset their business methods.

    • Good point. I'm surprised this is going on in California of all places. Then again, maybe CA gives out debit cards to low-income residents (they're already trying to figure out how to fund free cell service [slashdot.org]).

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 )
        California also tends to be highly segregated and classist. The cashless/privacy-less businesses are deliberately set up as such, to keep people like the poor, recent immigrants, etc out. It's a form of class discrimination disguised as convenience.
    • There are many reasons for this - bounced a check/overdrew an account in the past

      Banks will not close your account because of bounced checks or overdrafts. In fact, they LOVE these irresponsible customers since they get to charge lots of fees.

      Most banks offer a "no-checking" account that only allows payments via a debit card, and then only if enough money is in the account. These accounts are usually free.

      medical or job problems, etc.

      What does this have to do with having a bank account?

      BoA charges a service fee of $12 a month for balances below $1500.

      Only for "normal" checking accounts. Who needs that? I haven't written a paper check in years.

    • It isn’t just them— some people like to use cash for certain things because that is how they manage their spending. There are plenty of good reasons to prefer cash over cards, especially for transactions under $100. I like using cash where I think it may go unreported as income (a black economy is a good thing), and if it wasn’t for credit card points, I would go back to using it exclusively.

      • Re:Discrimination (Score:4, Insightful)

        by dryeo ( 100693 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @03:37PM (#57880672)

        It isn’t just them— some people like to use cash for certain things because that is how they manage their spending. There are plenty of good reasons to prefer cash over cards, especially for transactions under $100.

        Studies, namely observing peoples brain activity, show that using cash has close to equal parts of disgust and pleasure whereas using plastic gets rid of the disgust part of the equation.
        For the average person, using cash automatically makes it easier to manage their money. They see it going and feel disgust.
        For the average business, it is the opposite, they want you to spend money without disgust by using plastic as you're more likely to spend.

    • Re:Discrimination (Score:5, Insightful)

      by vadim_t ( 324782 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @02:01PM (#57880108) Homepage

      Also children. It's perfectly reasonable for a child to go to a store or a hairdresser on their own.

    • Re:Discrimination (Score:5, Interesting)

      by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Sunday December 30, 2018 @04:08PM (#57880854) Homepage Journal

      Yeah - that's intentional. These businesses don't want "their kind" in their establishments. Requiring cards is a low-pass filter on the people they feel are beneath them. "The trash can take itself out", etc.

      "No cash" at s brick-and-mortar is a label that says "an elitist asshole runs this place".

  • by short ( 66530 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:25PM (#57879828) Homepage
    There is a real reason why to use cash - as for the card payment the card company + bank charge 2-5% of the amount to the shop. Therefore the shop has to raise their prices by 2-5% which in the end is always paid by the customer - by me.

    Now handling cash is also not for free but at least with bigger shops it is not 2-5%. Anyone has an idea how much does the cash handling and transfers cost?

    • Most merchant accounts are going to pay 2% or less. A small merchant that takes in ~$1500/day is generally going to be better off paying the $30 in credit card fees compared to the hassles of managing cash.

      I would guess they would end up paying about $3 per cashier drawer to count cash, and another $10 per day to break down the cash for new drawers, and maybe $10/day for going to the bank. When you add back the risks of handling cash, it might not be worth it. As you work with more cash, the costs likely

    • A retailer answers (Score:5, Informative)

      by DogDude ( 805747 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @02:12PM (#57880178)
      Handling cash is not expensive. It's much less than 1%. A big store spends about one man hour a day counting, and about another two man hours a week re-counting and going to the bank. We much, much, much prefer cash to cards. We do have to account for an extra 3% in our prices to pay for the cards that most people use.

      When I'm out and about spending money, I always use cash.
      • by guruevi ( 827432 )

        About 7% of average business revenue is lost in theft, the majority of which is employee theft. For small coffee/food shops/chains and restaurants this number is a lot higher. Going cashless prevents the majority of theft, even if they have to pay 1-2% for the credit card fees.

        • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Monday December 31, 2018 @07:53AM (#57883350) Homepage Journal

          The majority of employee theft is of goods, not cash

        • by kenh ( 9056 )

          About 7% of average business revenue is lost in theft, the majority of which is employee theft.

          Sounds made-up, but OK, let's go with your numbers.

          For small coffee/food shops/chains and restaurants this number is a lot higher.

          What? You mean the folks behind the counter at my local non-starbucks coffee shop are eating/drinking (stealing) 7% of sales?

          Going cashless prevents the majority of theft, even if they have to pay 1-2% for the credit card fees.

          They pay 3%, plus 15-30 cents/transaction:

          • On a $1 transaction, that is as much as 33%.
          • On a $2 transaction, that is as much as 18%.
          • On a $3 transaction that is as much as 13%.
          • On a $4 transaction, that is as much as 11%.
          • On a $5 transaction, that is as much as 9%.
          • On a $10 transaction it is as much as 6%.
          • On a $20 transaction, that is as m
    • by dissy ( 172727 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @03:49PM (#57880744)

      Anyone has an idea how much does the cash handling and transfers cost?

      I can answer that for the case of very small companies, in our case a 6 person ISP at the time, as I was the person handling the monthly billing cycle.

      Basically the costs were so insignificant they weren't even taken into account.

      We had one of those cash register drawer lock boxes, about $20-30 one time expense, that was kept in a locked desk drawer in a locked office.
      Once every two weeks, assuming we had anything in it, I would leave work on Friday about 30 minutes early but still "on the clock", drive to the bank on my way home, and despot the cash in the ATM, bringing the receipt back with me Monday.

      For the most part the ATM was on my way, so didn't cost any more in gas or wear and tear on my car than compared to say stopping for fast food on the way home.
      Like I said we literally didn't even factor that in, because from my point of view I got to leave 30 minutes early for a 10 minute task and beat out rush hour traffic. So I felt no reason to complain.

      Even the company I work for now of about 200 employees uses this same method, although I'm not involved in billing. The plant controller handles the petty cash, which as far as I know is the only reason for having cash there.
      We do however have expense forms to report millage on for any personal vehicle usage for work purposes.

      10-15 minutes of time plus what, 0.05 miles of gas, are variables so inexpensive that I never bothered mathing that out since, as you can see, they are so very insignificant.

      The only one potential factor I have no experience with is for frequent and larger cash amount runs. One may make the argument that the safety of the person doing the ATM run should come into play.

      Once you hit that point however, at least in the late 90's, Dunbar armored car services were around $60/visit to do that for you.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Bring cash, because dispensaries take nothing else.

  • by Dan East ( 318230 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:28PM (#57879858) Journal

    This is just businesses (IE the corporate level that makes decisions) being lazy and cheap. If you don't accept cash...

    You don't have to worry about your employees stealing it, so you don't have to audit it to make sure tills balance out and that deposits match sales receipts.
    You don't have to train your managers to make sure they have proper cash and change on hand when the business opens daily.
    You don't have to pay employees for the overhead time of counting cash when shifts start or end.
    You don't have to pay managers for making trips to banks to get change or make deposits (yes, I know, many businesses already don't pay them for their time while doing this).
    You don't have to have a special safe or procedures in place for when too much cash accumulates.
    You don't have to have local bank accounts for deposit.
    You no longer have to make sure your employees can count or do simple math.
    Insurance is likely cheaper since cash doesn't have to be insured and the risk of robbery is decreased.

    None of this has anything to do with what the customers want, or what is convenient to them. It is about saving money and reducing the responsibility you entrust to managers and employees and consolidating control.

    • You call it lazy and cheap, others would likely call it innovative and efficient.

      For what good reason should your hairdressers be accountants, security guards, and couriers? Back in the day businesses had a cashier, but as time goes on, it's clear that that's not a required position.

      If you don't need to store cash, as you point out, you don't need procedures, audits, staff training, specialized hardware and software, daily (or at least weekly) trips to the local bank, insurance, concerns about embezzlement

    • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @02:15PM (#57880188)
      I worked at a fast food joint when I was a kid that kept being robbed. It's a minor miracle I wasn't. The owner kept the lobby open 24/7 until finally somebody got pistol whipped by a robber and the local cops told that owner "next time somebody gets hurt we're gonna hold you criminally liable". Only then did the owner close the lobbies after 10.

      I can tell you that if you're running a business that can be robbed doing away with cash is a huge boon to the employees. Though it's going to be interesting when we become cashless and petty crime just goes away. I guess you can mug me for my shoes and my cell phone. But as soon as I get home I'm going to lock the cell phone (and modern DRM means you can't even use it for parts) and my shoes cost $50 bucks on Amazon.
  • by torkus ( 1133985 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:32PM (#57879894)

    For all debts, public and private. It says so right on the bills.

    Now, someone can refuse to SELL you something as you haven't incurred a debt at that point. But if you've been rendered a service (or generally own someone money outside of an immediate transactional service like retail sale) then cash is, as it says, legal tender for that debt.

    It would make an interesting court case, but I highly doubt the US government would allow a court case saying it's OK to refuse US Legal Tender. If for no other reason than they have a very strong, vested interest in maintaining the $ as broadly accepted currency - it's a big part of the reason behind it's stability. If the country issuing it says it's OK to refuse it, that sets a very dangerous precedent.

    tl;dr: Currency says it's for all debts and US Gov't wouldn't undermine the $ value/stability by allowing it to be refused. Story is a non-story. They have to take it or forego payment.

  • Here in Humboldt County, ands other places where the pot economy is strong, cash is king. Very few businesses blink at a $50 or $100 bill. Most medium sized businesses have they own bill counting and banding machines in the back room. It isn't unusual to see signs stating no debit or credit cards for purchases under $X.00, but I've never seen one stating no cash.
  • by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:44PM (#57879994) Journal

    If you won't take my money, you won't get my money.

    I mean, aren't you in the business of getting money? Isn't that what the actual end-goal is?

    It's Business 101: get the money.

    But it's not a problem, I'll just shop elsewhere.

    I'll also vigorously shit-talk your hipster establishment non-stop, probably on Yelp as well as everywhere else I can think of.

  • by physicsphairy ( 720718 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @01:51PM (#57880062)

    Since ancient times we have had to deal with the problem of markets preferring one type of payment but having an influx of other kinds. Meant there was money to be made offering the service of converting to the preferred currency. Malls, airports, or anywhere with concentrated shops will have had ATMs available exactly so people can get their electronic holdings into a spendable format. Seems like we will start installing machines to accept deposits and put them on temporary credit cards, or something similar.

    But I do wonder if refusing cash is an actually business savvy phenomenon which will endure. Spend untold amounts on advertising for the one in a thousand chance someone who sees the ad will come to your shop, and then turn away guaranteed customers with payment in hand? When a competing shop shows up accepting cash, I will bet their mistake becomes evident.

  • Any of the workers can take that $40, and put it on their card. Can work in most situations. Stand in line, give the cash to the next one in line and order the coffee to be put on the card of another person. They get the brownie points and the benefits...
  • and at some pubs in the U.K., you can no longer get a pint with pound notes.

    You haven't been able to get a pint with pound notes since 1988, so that would be ALL the pubs in the U.K. You can still get pints with pound coins, although contactless is the norm these days. It will be a very sad day when physical currency is no longer legal tender, all anonymity of payment will be lost - which kinda makes the idea of cryptocurrency payments suddenly more relevant, except for that tricky issue of volatility ..

  • and then the system is down? and can they call the cops if you don't have a card and they will not take your cash?

  • So it's not really that they can't take cash. They can. They just can't make change. So if you give them exact change, you're probably OK. Just leave it and walk out, what they gonna call the cops or something?
  • Big mistake (Score:5, Insightful)

    by p51d007 ( 656414 ) on Sunday December 30, 2018 @03:36PM (#57880670)
    Once they take cold cash out of the equation, you have zero privacy in any transaction. Anything you purchase is recorded. The government is having an orgasm on how easy it has been to get rid of cash. Not just in the U.S., but globally.

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