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The Almighty Buck

Why the Swiss Still Love Cash (bbc.com) 327

gollum123 shares a report from the BBC: Last month, the Swiss unveiled a smart new banknote to stash in their wallets. The purple 1,000 franc bill was the latest in the Swiss National Bank (SNB) series to undergo a revamp. But this revamp comes as other nations are phasing out their high-value notes and as cash usage declines in European nations, albeit at greatly differing rates. In Switzerland, cash remains the dominant payment method. Here, there's an assumption everyone carries cash, even in an increasingly digital economy. Most don't get caught out buying a sandwich or paying for a haircut when the card payment machine is out of order. If you have to pay for a coffee with a 100 franc note, no need to apologize -- no one will ask if you have something smaller. And for those big-ticket items, some banks even allow you to withdraw up to 5,000 francs per day (or 10,000 a month) at the cash machine without advance notice. Buying a car that costs tens of thousands with cash is also not that unusual.

Why then do the Swiss prefer cash? Two simple reasons are that cash is widely considered to be part of their culture and people believe that using it allows them to track their spending more easily. In Basel, 53-year-old Chris Troiani confirmed this, saying many people she knows still prefer the reassurance of carrying big bills in their wallet. There's also the identity factor: the Swiss identify with cash in part because of how they see themselves. This is a nation which values privacy and doesn't like being told what to do. They see themselves as different to their European neighbors and closely guard those traditions which set them apart, such as languages, political system and currency.

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Why the Swiss Still Love Cash

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  • Swiss banking (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @10:42PM (#58452342)

    Privacy is great, but it also allows corrupt billionaire's from China and USA to store money secretly to avoid corruption and taxies. Positives and negatives of everything.

    • Re:Swiss banking (Score:5, Insightful)

      by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @10:46PM (#58452352)
      This is overblown -- the top countries for money laundering are probably the USA and Canada at this point. Who do you think is buying condos in NYC and Vancouver for tens of millions of dollars and leaving them vacant? Nah, the Swiss just respect their own citizens' privacy and have a culture of privacy that other countries would do well to emulate.
      • Re:Swiss banking (Score:4, Interesting)

        by monkeyxpress ( 4016725 ) on Thursday April 18, 2019 @02:51AM (#58452868)

        You could be right, but I don't get this whole 'everything bad is because of money laundering' argument. I have no doubt money laundering is widespread, but has it become any more widespread now compared to the days when drug dealers were hiding suitcases of cash around the place? The world did not fall apart then, as it will apparently do now if we don't crack down on all these money launderers.

        The thing that has changed over the last couple of decades is that people are working/living internationally. It is not at all uncommon these days for a rich american to buy a holiday apartment in Paris or London, or a rich hong kong person to buy a flat in NYC as a 'safe place' for some of their savings - and so leave it empty. Or for a bunch of chinese speculators to buy a whole block of flats in London on credit and leave them empty so they can benefit from rampant price increases. It is really just a product of globalisation and low interest rates. But that is not money laundering. Even chinese people evading capital controls in China and buying in the west is not money laundering (of the drug dealer kind). If they have made the money from a legitimate business trade, then since when did the west care about enforcing domestic CCP capital control laws?

        It has become ridiculously hard to deal with even smallish (10's thousand) sums of money internationally these days. I run an international business and have to regularly justify to my bank what I'm doing. Every time I deal with a professional or financial service I have to prove where my funds have come from. The whole system seems to be based on guity until you can prove innocence (they could easily spend 10 mins googling my business and figure out it is legitimate). I find it hard to believe this is not more about the govt putting in place future capital controls and wanting to track everything I do rather than a sudden moral panic causing govts to crack down on evil launderers.

        The same argument goes with the move to cashless. In my view this will just enable them to continue their monetary policy games once we get to the point where real interest rates are negative 3% or more.

        • Money laundering (Score:5, Interesting)

          by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Thursday April 18, 2019 @06:57AM (#58453518)

          You could be right, but I don't get this whole 'everything bad is because of money laundering' argument.

          That's because you probably are a nice person who doesn't really spend much time thinking about how to screw your fellow human beings for monetary gain. Unfortunately enough people do spend time doing this that it's a VERY serious problem.

          I have no doubt money laundering is widespread, but has it become any more widespread now compared to the days when drug dealers were hiding suitcases of cash around the place?

          Accountant speaking here. TLDR version is yes it has become more common because technology has made it easier that ever. Why do you think technology like bitcoin is so popular for illegal goods transactions? Money laundering is nothing more than any series of transactions that makes it difficult to trace the origin of the cash. Think of it a bit like encryption - you can often crack it with enough time and resources but the point is to make it so much work that it isn't worth the bother in most cases. Cryptocurrencies are almost a wet dream for people wanting to launder money. You don't have to have untraceable transactions to launder money - you just need enough transactions of the right type to make tracing cash flows challenging.

          The world did not fall apart then, as it will apparently do now if we don't crack down on all these money launderers.

          I think you don't really understand the scope of the problems money laundering facilitates. Money laundering is critical to financing, among other things drug dealers, terrorist organizations, dictatorships, illegal trade, circumvention of sanctions, human trafficking (slavery), theft, fraud, extortion, racketeering, and the list goes on for some time. The drug dealers you use as an example are merely one case among many. It's quite clear that lack of controls for money laundering would result in substantially worse world to live in.

          If they have made the money from a legitimate business trade, then since when did the west care about enforcing domestic CCP capital control laws?

          Those statements have nothing to do with each other. First, there is a LOT of trade that looks like legitimate honest trade on the surface but really isn't. Ever heard of a front organization [wikipedia.org]? Those are super common and they rarely exist for reasons positive to society as a whole. No the west doesn't care about Chinese capital controls except insofar as they affect the west but they don't need to to have a legitimate interest in combating money laundering. You can't stop money laundering completely but like many things it's not a good idea to just sit back and ignore it altogether either.

          It has become ridiculously hard to deal with even smallish (10's thousand) sums of money internationally these days. I run an international business and have to regularly justify to my bank what I'm doing. Every time I deal with a professional or financial service I have to prove where my funds have come from.

          Assuming for the sake of argument that that is true, then you are probably doing it wrong. Yes banks are required by law under know your customers [wikipedia.org] laws to understand the nature of the transactions banking customers are conducting and this is entirely reasonable. That said, I'm among other things a certified accountant and I do a lot of international trade for the manufacturing company I work for today. It's not nearly as challenging as you are making it out to be. If you are being asked a lot about your business then you need to get a better relationship with your bank and learn how to actually do things properly. When I hear people complaining about it, it's almost always because they don't understand what they are doing adequately.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            I've worked for an investment bank and am quite familiar with the KYC and AML rules and how they're intended to combat money laundering, terrorist financing, etc.

            Money laundering is critical to financing, among other things drug dealers, terrorist organizations, dictatorships, illegal trade, circumvention of sanctions, human trafficking (slavery), theft, fraud, extortion, racketeering, and the list goes on for some time.

            That may be true, but shouldn't the individual have a right to financial privacy? If I'm not accused of any crime, then why should I have to prove the source of my money? We don't allow the government into our homes to make sure we're not doing anything nefarious, why should we allow them into our bank accounts?

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        In London a lot of the empty property is speculators who are waiting for it to go up in value before selling. Many of them are foreign, because the people building the property go to Dubai and China where the money is to market them. They are also popular with Russians looking to hide wealth from the Russian state.

      • by dcw3 ( 649211 )

        This is overblown -- the top countries for money laundering are probably the USA and Canada at this point. Who do you think is buying condos in NYC and Vancouver for tens of millions of dollars and leaving them vacant?

        Pure speculation on your part. It could also be drug lords laundering money. It could also be Chinese, Russian, or some other nationality billionaires hiding money from their own governments. It would be a lot of things, but if you're going to lay a claim, please point to some evidence.

    • You can do this very simply and legally no need for privacy. Ever hear of a Tax haven, it works like this. You setup a company in Tax haven then you don't pay taxes.

      Not only that but can move your current tax bill there with perfectly legal tricks and measures.

      Just a game which is why the socialist agenda will never work, you have to have low taxes or the profits will be elsewhere.

      Google sells you a phone from local US company then pays Alphabet International (registered in Ireland) a license fee fo
    • by dcw3 ( 649211 )

      Privacy is great, but it also allows corrupt billionaire's from China and USA to store money secretly to avoid corruption and taxies. Positives and negatives of everything.

      Clearly, the AC is a corrupt billionaire from Russia.

    • Corrupt billionaires from Europe use the Caymans? or where? It seems like Switzerland would be the best place for them, too.
  • by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @10:44PM (#58452344)
    Because despite being known for banking, Switzerland hasn't been infected with the viruses of monetization and "big pig data," pushed by Wall Street filth. The Swiss actually know to mind their own fucking business, whether it's by maintaining neutrality or by not prying into the private affairs of their own citizens too much. A lesson that nations around the world would do good to follow.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @11:37PM (#58452454)

      EU (and Swiss via EEA) handed all the banking data over to the USA for "investigating terrorim". The USA in turn promised it would only be used under supervision by the US Treasury.

      Look at Steven Mnuchin. He won't hand over the tax returns of Trump's companies to Congress IN DIRECT DEFIANCE OF US LAW, and yet a political player like that is supposed to a gatekeeper for European banking data.

      You see the problem here? You let a bad actor have all that private data!

      • Not that the EU cares. They have just signed a law (PSD2) that obliges banks to give 3rd parties access to their clients' financial transactions, if those clients give explicit permission. It means that anyone could write, say, a budget management app or offer a tax return service, and plug my financial data right into that. Why is that bad? Well, if you send me $10 and I gave my bank permission to share my data, whoever got that data now knows about you and your $10 as well. Not good. Worse: what if
    • Culture? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by hcs_$reboot ( 1536101 ) on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:09AM (#58452526)
      Like Japan, Swiss is a safe country of very disciplined people, who tend to be more conservative, i.e. repeat the pattern of their elders. And both countries do love cash.
      • Yep, culture. The same is true here in neighboring Austria. There's probably a quarter? a third? of countries that don't accept credit cards. It's just part of the culture - carry cash (sometimes a lot of it) with you everywhere. For larger items, do a bank transfer.

        .

        It's always a really weird juxtaposition when I read stories about Sweden (or other countries) going cashless: https://interestingengineering.com/sweden-how-to-live-in-the-worlds-first-cashless-society [interestin...eering.com] . It's neat, but it's so wildly different

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Japan is very big on stored value cards. You load them up, usually with cash since you can only use one or two debit/credit cards from specific banks, and then tap to pay. Widely accepted on public transport and in chain shops like convenience stores and electronics retailers.

        They don't seem to be as big on credit or debit cards. Credit cards work differently in Japan though, I'm not sure of the exact details but I think basically you state how many months you are going to pay it off in when you make the pu

    • Or maybe people just don't like the convenience over there? I mean it's not like anyone is forcing many western countries to go cashless, but fuck carrying cash around.

      I don't even take my wallet shopping anymore. I just pay with my phone.

    • >"Switzerland hasn't been infected with the viruses of monetization and "big pig data," pushed by Wall Street filth."

      I think you need to turn your ire just as much to the huge, expensive, ever-more-corrupt, out-of-control Federal government, which is at least as interested in tracking everything we do in the name of "safety" (control). AND has the power to do things far more dangerous with that data than just selling it to push the latest ads on you.

      You can't really have freedom when everything you buy,

  • by AJWM ( 19027 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @11:33PM (#58452448) Homepage

    For those wondering, since it didn't appear in TFS anywhere. The exact rate today is 1 SFr = $0.99, it's been sliding a bit over the past month.

    By comparison, the US $1000 bill hasn't been printed since 1945, and although technically still legal tender, was officially withdrawn in 1969 (which means the Fed started destroying such bills turned in by banks). They're worth more than face value to collectors.

    • True, but if the US was as expensive as Switzerland it might still have a $1,000 note.
  • by Snotnose ( 212196 ) on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:34AM (#58452568)
    Get paid on friday, get $100 cash. Come Wednesday, when you're out of cash you quit spending.
    or
    Get paid on friday, put it in the bank. Buy everything with your credit card. Come end of the month, you can't cover your bills, end up paying 27% interest on your Starbucks double cappuccino mocha mint grande.
    • And that's why the bankscum and corepirations are attempting to ram cashless bullshit down our raw gullets. It's easier to induce sheep to spend money if they aren't literally seeing it disappear from their hands.
    • by CrimsonAvenger ( 580665 ) on Thursday April 18, 2019 @06:02AM (#58453336)

      Get paid on friday, put it in the bank. Buy everything with your credit card. Come end of the month, you can't cover your bills, end up paying 27% interest on your Starbucks double cappuccino mocha mint grande.

      Or there's the technique I use - get paid on Friday, put it in the bank, buy everything with my credit card, pay the credit card at the end of the month.

      Yeppers, I use credit cards for everything, and it's been literally decades since I came up short at the end of the month and had to roll over my credit card balance till the next month....

      Here's the trick, by the way - know how much you can afford to spend, and don't spend more than that, even if you really, Really, REALLY want that neat new toy....

    • Get paid on friday, get $100 cash. Come Wednesday, when you're out of cash you quit spending. or Get paid on friday, put it in the bank. Buy everything with your credit card. Come end of the month, you can't cover your bills, end up paying 27% interest on your Starbucks double cappuccino mocha mint grande.

      So use debit, not credit.

      Put $X into savings and $Y into checking each month (easy to do with direct deposit). Make sure you don't agree to any of your bank's overdraft services.

      Or, you know, just budget and pay attention to what you spend.

  • Swiss here... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bradley13 ( 1118935 ) on Thursday April 18, 2019 @12:54AM (#58452624) Homepage

    Swiss here. I typically carry cash for small purchases - why mess with anything else to buy your lunch? Cash is simpler. Second choice is a debit card from my bank (directly from the bank, not branded MasterCard or Visa), because this is free to me, and the transaction fee to the merchant is very small.

    Apparently loved in the US, but not used quite so much here are credit cards. Credit cards are, factually, expensive. Those great point systems, cash-back, or whatever? Ultimately, you pay for those through higher prices, because the merchants have to pay whopping fees on the transactions. Why do that to yourself? Why do that to a merchant whom you actually like? I only use credit cards in cases where the fraud protection is important, mainly online purchases with vendors I've never dealt with before, or else with vendors silly enough to insist on payment by credit card.

    Speaking of online purchases: most vendors here are happy to send you an invoice along with your purchase, rather than insisting on up-front payment. Just add it to the pile of other invoices you pay at the end of the month (via online banking). Cheaper for them (no credit card fees), simpler to order since you don't have to mess with a payment portal, and psychologically it's really nice gesture of trust. Of course, this only works in a society where most people really are that trustworthy, and will pay the invoice for goods they received.

    • Can you explain to me why the 1/2 Frank coin has the same size and outward appearance as the 10 Rappen coin?

      The cashiers in Zuerich always gave me dirty looks when I confused them .

    • by dcw3 ( 649211 )

      Swiss here. I typically carry cash for small purchases - why mess with anything else to buy your lunch? Cash is simpler.

      Yankee here. I also carry cash for small purchases, but I use my credit cards for virtually everything because I get airline points or cash back on every purchase. I'll normally leave cash for a tip, but that's about all. I pay off my credit card balance every month, so there are no fees involved for me.

    • Swiss here. I typically carry cash for small purchases - why mess with anything else to buy your lunch? Cash is simpler.

      Simpler than debit? Stick a card in, type a number code? Vs. fumble with bills and coins, and getting bills and coins back as change?

      Cash has many benefits and I don't want to see it go away, but "simpler" at the point of purchase is not one of them.

  • 20 years ago I always had a $100 note tucked away for emergencies. It is laughable just how much less that would do today than back then. While normally I use the credit card a lot, in the places cash is king the small notes start to get painful. Countries where the largest note is $30 can make it painful for big bills

  • and people believe that using it allows them to track their spending more easily [emphasis mine]

    Uh, that's a really weird thing to say. Unless you don't know how to use a computer/phone or your bank's website is absolute shit or something.

  • That's rich! (pun intended)

    We just recently voted in a new law that allows middle management at social security insurances like welfare, medical and invalid pension to have people receiving money put under surveillance by a private investigater. No judge necessary.

    And this all for small and unrealistic hope that the services will become a few bucks cheaper.

    No, no, no... we're not about privacy... we just do it because that's how it's always been done. Nothing more to it.

  • People in Germany will usually pay for their groceries either with debit card ("EC card") or in cash. Anything small, take-awayish is almost always paid with cash and people look at you funny if you ask if you can pay with credit card or other similar new fangled stuff. I don't know about the Swiss, but we Germany sure do love our cash way too much. I went on several business trips to Sweden and the difference in culture when it comes to paying for stuff is huge. A Swedish business contact related a story
  • They see themselves as different to their European neighbors and closely guard those traditions which set them apart, such as languages, political system and currency.

    Which is OK if the Swiss do it, but eeeeevil if Americans do it.

    • No, this is very much analogous to one stupid and evil American "cultural difference." Swiss "cash culture" will massively enable crime, just like American "gun culture." And just as in the US, the consequences the Swiss feel at home will be just the tip of the iceberg of international crime enabled by their "unique culture," and they will profit from it (international banking for white-collar criminals in Switzerland; and gun manufacture and the security services/products that make a weak attempt at addres

    • Only if it involves invading third world shitholes for a few trillion or so.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 18, 2019 @11:46AM (#58455002)

    The 1000 Frank note has some geographical info in silvery micro font. Yes, I have one, got it from a regular ATM last week.

    The 10 Frank note has swiss tunnels with their length.
    The 20 has distance in light seconds to heavenly bodies, Luna, mercury, venus, Sol, etc, ending with CMB at 430 000 000 000 000 000 s.
    The 50 has Swiss mountains, just listing them.

    Coolest/nerdiest is the micro writing on the 200 Frank note, it has the events after the big bang in scientific time notation. Planck epoch from t=0 until ~10^-43s, then inflationary epoch until "?", then Electroweak Symmetry Breaking until 10^-11s, then the quark epoch until 10^-6s,... It ends with 13.8x10^9 y Now.

    Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any link that shows it.

    aRTee

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