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The Almighty Buck Businesses Communications Software

Business Messaging Service Slack Says It's Going To Replace Email and is as Necessary as Electricity in Its Pitch To Investors (cnbc.com) 200

Business messaging service Slack briefed investors on Monday, as the company expects to go public with a direct listing on the New York Stock Exchange later this year. From a report: The service, which primarily caters to businesses, said it has more than 10 million users as of January. Stewart Butterfield, co-founder and CEO of Slack, made the case to investors that replacing email with Slack changes the way employees of a company communicate. "This shift is inevitable. We believe every organization will switch to Slack or something like it," Butterfield said in a presentation. He also pitched Slack as a software-focused company that believes the world is "only at the beginning" of its reliance on software. In that essence, Butterfield likened Slack as eventually becoming a utility, similar to the internet or electricity.
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Business Messaging Service Slack Says It's Going To Replace Email and is as Necessary as Electricity in Its Pitch To Investors

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  • ROFL (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Shaitan ( 22585 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @09:44AM (#58583436)

    Slack, aka a new web based IRC where all your data are belong to them. Oh AND belonging to the producer of every integration. Oh yes, businesses love sharing private client data willy nilly all over the internet.

    What is disturbing is the possibility of business people believing this nonsense and not realizing what a steaming pile of security nightmare slack is.

    • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      Why is that disturbing? It seems to me like an excellent way to weed out businesses run by idiots.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          I'm not sure it would be all of a sudden. If Slack ceased to exist, people are reasonably clever and would figure out how to talk to each other. If Slack started (continued?) leaking business secrets, we'd just end up with more competition. Presumably the businesses not run by idiots would gain a competitive advantage and take over.

          Now, Slack as a public utility, that's a bit scary. Imagine you had to use Slack to file your taxes.

        • Probably because most businesses appear to be run at some level by idiots, ...

          And ... s/businesses/countries/g -- some, notably, at the top level(s).

    • I thought Slack XMPP wrapper, not IRC wrapper.

    • Slack, aka a new web based IRC where all your data are belong to them. Oh AND belonging to the producer of every integration. Oh yes, businesses love sharing private client data willy nilly all over the internet.

      What is disturbing is the possibility of business people believing this nonsense and not realizing what a steaming pile of security nightmare slack is.

      Yeah, the defense contractor I work for would be thrilled with Slack...

    • Re:ROFL (Score:4, Interesting)

      by gtall ( 79522 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:47AM (#58583932)

      The security implications aside, email is a nice way to communicate. You send a note, go off and do something and if you get a response, you can either pick it up at the mail beep, or if you turned your mailer off to get some peace, the next day.

      Slack, near as I can make out, is for people with the attention span of gnat who simply cannot believe they aren't in a meeting to fill any dead air with their intellectual musings they think are such gems that everyone should enjoy them.

      It's a shame we cannot use social media masquerading as "business tools" for a game of whack-a-mole. Hell, we could even make it an electronic game. Turn the game on during lunch and when the mole bounces, representing some precious note, bounces around your screen and you get to shoot a electronic pistol at it. When you hit the bouncing meme, a note gets sent back to the sender explaining in precise terms what you thought of them...and that their message will remain unread until the day after eternity.

      • It's a shame we cannot use social media masquerading as "business tools" for a game of whack-a-mole. Hell, we could even make it an electronic game.

        Somebody, somewhere is almost certainly playing buzzword bingo [wikipedia.org] based on interoffice communications even as we type. They just have to be smart about not actually keeping score where the bosses can see it.

    • by mysidia ( 191772 )

      I guess Slack is like "Discord for businesses".

      I wonder why is Slack even a thing anymore, when Matrix [matrix.org] with the Riot.IM [about.riot.im] client....
      provides such similar communication and chat history capabilities, but in addition there is End to End encryption.. Protocol bridge capabilities to other Chat systems and servers And Matrix is decentralized, so users don't depend on a single entity's business policies [sfweekly.com] --- people can have your own Synapse nodes on premise or in the cloud, since thats open source with Deb [github.com]

      • by piojo ( 995934 )

        I only tried the Riot web UI, so forgive me if that's not a representative example of the system's full features, but it failed the first test I threw at it: Riot won't let users edit sent messages.

        FYI, here is the list of feature requirements I use when evaluating chat software for work:

        - can send code without it being parsed to smileys
        - can attach files to a message (and can paste an image from the clipboard) and have an attachment preview visible in the chat client
        - being able to edit sent messages for a

        • by mysidia ( 191772 )

          Riot won't let users edit sent messages.

          Well.. changing a message once sent into a conversation is a shenanigan that amounts to
          rewriting history or changing evidence that ought to never be allowed.
          By design cannot do that with a Slashdot comment, E-mail message, IRC, or MOST chat systems either.

          Although in Matrix it is possible to send a new message and for the previous one to be redacted from the history through
          moderation / message removal.

    • by Teckla ( 630646 )

      Slack, aka a new web based IRC...

      As a very long time -- and current -- user of IRC (and Slack), I'm always disappointed to see this attitude.

      Slack has some killer features IRC doesn't have that strongly differentiates it. The main killer feature, in my opinion, is server-side history, so that you can connect and disconnect to your heart's content, using a different device each time if desired, and you still won't miss any important conversation while you're offline. And, no, znc is not a good solution, because it requires you to run your o

  • by RonVNX ( 55322 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @09:45AM (#58583448)

    Whatever it is good for, it is a particularly poor substitute for email. The Slack groups I'm in seem to spend most of their time discussing what time to try and get everyone in Slack at the same time. Real communication used to happen when the group used email. Not anymore.

    • by edi_guy ( 2225738 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @01:13PM (#58585178)

      We don't use Slack, but another IM-ish tool. However most of the folks in IT at my company with real skill (devs, DBA's, ERP gurus, and so on) end up turning off IM because they, like myself, find it being used by end-users and managers as a way to short-cut the line.

      With email you can properly sort and prioritize responding. Some emails get immediate responses, others can wait until later in the day, or often after work and at home. Some emails require some careful researching of code before you can give an answer, and some require a cooling off period so you don't fire off a termination-worthy response.

      With IM people think that their one quick question isn't a big deal, not caring about the 999 questions from other folks that I am getting, or the costs of context switching etc. One of the best people I used to work with went a step further and did all of his 'real' work in the morning, and only answered emails after lunch. I wish I had that sort discipline, but fear of increasing email counts keeps me on the Pavlovian schedule. Funny thing is, by waiting many of the stupid questions were resolved by the sender in the interim so he actually had less to do, at least so he said. And uniquely, for actual urgent tasks, he was available by (gasp) phone. My hero.

  • by ilsaloving ( 1534307 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @09:49AM (#58583472)

    They clearly need to put less vodka in all that Kool-aid they're drinking. There is so much wrong with the assumptions behind that statement I don't know where to begin.

    If they arn't careful Microsoft is going to eat their lunch with Teams. And that's just one bit of competition they didn't have before. On the OSS side RocketChat is looking pretty good.

    Also throw in that massive screw-up of theirs last year, their reputation isn't nearly as stellar as they think it is.

  • by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @09:49AM (#58583480)
    If you run your business like series of recurring fire drills, don't bother to document or learn from your past actions, and have crappy management who don't know how to optimize processes or get people into the best positions to succeed...then Slack is perfect for you. (Kind of like how agile can make anyone into a mediocre manager.) Unfortunately, this applies to many businesses, so I predict it will be a monumental success.
  • by ranton ( 36917 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @09:50AM (#58583484)

    The first thing I thought when I read the headline was how ridiculous the claims were. My second thought was that the journalists were merely sensationalizing what was actually said. At least I only had to read the summary to realize that was the case. Believing Slack will replace email is not the same thing as believing software such as Slack will start replacing email for corporate communication.

    It isn't that absurd to believe the industry will start moving away from email. Moving business processes away from email is a big part of many of the operational efficiency projects I have in my project pipeline right now. Email will stick around for a long time, perhaps "forever", but I sure hope it isn't as integral to communication in the near future as it is today.

    • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

      "It isn't that absurd to believe the industry will start moving away from email. Moving business processes away from email is a big part of many of the operational efficiency projects I have in my project pipeline right now."

      Yes, but how many decades has that been the case for? The problem isn't that email does something fantastic, you can whip up a protocol/application that does the same job and does it better effortlessly and slack wouldn't be what it looks like. The problem is every company you interact

      • True every company is using email, and slack or something like it won't replace email by itself.

        The real replacement will be a unified open source communications that can spend and connect email, text, (slack like groups too) voice and Video chat. It will need full calendar intergration.

        My biggest issues revolve around intergrating email, calendar, and project status. Heck email still hasn't come up with a decent group inbox and task assignment method. You have to use 3rd party tools that work medicore at

        • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

          In order for such a platform to rule the world it has to work for both users and business which have a very direct conflict. Specifically, encryption. Anything that works for users prevents man in the middle decryption while business wants to snoop on the communications that go through the platform.

    • Believing Slack will replace email is not the same thing as believing software such as Slack will start replacing email for corporate communication.

      Yes it is. Slack will be used my a small minority of companies for which it makes practical sense. These companies will continue to use email as well because EVERYONE uses email and there is no chance that everyone uses slack. My company does not use slack. None of our vendors, sales reps, customers, or distributors use slack nor are they likely to start. Slack does not solve the sorts of problems we deal with. (we're in manufacturing) I'm sure it works great for some companies and I have nothing aga

    • Email will stick around for a long time, perhaps "forever", but I sure hope it isn't as integral to communication in the near future as it is today.

      Asynchronous text messages sent over a network where an instant response is not expected (but I repeat myself) turned out to be a great idea.

      I doubt it will go away, even if technical implementation details and nomenclature change.

      • by es330td ( 964170 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @11:51AM (#58584390)
        IMHO, the answering machine is one of the most significant advancements in technology. The telephone gave us instant communication but unless the person was available at the exact moment communication was needed the only way to send a message to be received "when available" was snail mail. The answering machine changed all of that and decreased the communications round trip time by orders of magnitude.

        Email is the text equivalent of the answering machine. Now a person eight time zones away can send a message during their waking hours and the recipient can receive it in theirs.

        "E-mail" will go away only when it is supplanted by something that incorporates its utility and ALL of its features. As one of those features is "controllable by the owner" anything that requires a 3rd party message storage automatically fails.
      • by mlyle ( 148697 )

        Sure would be nice to have more (optional) workflow built into it, though, for how it's used today. Instead we have clumsy systems on the endpoint that try and do issue tracking, and stupid machine-learning and rules-based things that try to prioritize stuff.

    • Email will stick around for a long time, perhaps "forever", but I sure hope it isn't as integral to communication in the near future as it is today.

      Why?

    • by mysidia ( 191772 )

      Moving business processes away from email is a big part of many of the operational efficiency projects I have in my project pipeline right now.

      This makes sense. Use e-mail for generalized communications. Don't use e-mail as Ad-Hoc LOB software for organizing and managing business processes.. For example: if you are in IT, then your Inbox/Outbox is not the ticketing system.

  • Email Is Eternal (Score:4, Interesting)

    by resistant ( 221968 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @09:50AM (#58583492) Homepage Journal

    Slack won't actually replace email but rather provide functionality somewhere in its software suite that's so close to classic email as makes no real difference. A longer-form textual communications format that sits quietly in a virtual box without bothering you unless and until you damn well feel like looking at it will always have its place in the sun. Integrating classic email functionality into a wider suite that offers easy search and indexing is still useful, though, provided that Slack doesn't unnecessarily clutter up the user experience for simply reading a block of text.

    Honestly, I now feel like Captain Obvious. Did this really need to be said? Probably not. -_-

  • ...and works in the email "industry":

    hahahahahahahahaha, LOLs & roffle.

    No. Slack will be replaced by some other must have web-based thing decades before email is retired.
  • by QuietLagoon ( 813062 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @09:55AM (#58583528)
    ... is an astoundingly bad move. Putting all the communications of an enterprise in the basket of one upstart company's shiny object du jour is, imo, an egregiously irresponsible move.
    • Google docs, dropbox, OneDrive, not to mention half of the world's government infra either already on, or planning to migrate to AWS/Azure?

      So long Open Source, and thanks for all the fish :/

  • "I like my hair long, so just fuck off already!"
    --
    Me, to a barber.

  • I quick a quick search for SLACK on RFC-Editor and found zero results.
    SMTP, on the other hand shows 81 results and is used by every internet enabled human to some degree.
    Slapping together IRC and Collaboration Web Sites isn't going replace the simplicity or adoption of email.

    Should companies use email to track projects? Probably not for anything even mildly complex, but then state that as your scope. Claiming to replace the utility of email just makes it sound like you don't understand the landscape.

  • My university has adopted Slack for its employees. You can create your own channels, but there are plenty of people in the General channel and that's where a lot of idiocy happens. I've seen people talking shit on other university employees in that general channel. I've seen people sharing of privileged communications like they're talking with their buddies in a private chat client. And everyone has to use their real names!

    People here treat Slack as if it's their own little chat service with little acknowledgment that EVERYONE can see what they type... not to mention to the channel maintaining a fully searchable history.

  • by godrik ( 1287354 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:17AM (#58583704)

    I think the main problem these new fancy communication systems have is that they are way too fragmented with no interoperability. That is why email keeps on sticking around.

    I work in a university so I have colleagues in my department, in my college, in other colleges, in other universities, or in labs, or in the industry. And everyone one is part of a team where the workflow and communication flow is different. Adding one more only enables me to reuse the classic xkcd https://xkcd.com/927/ [xkcd.com]

    I have colleagues who want me to ping them on skype, I have colleagues who want me to ping them on hangout, I have colleagues want me to call them on bluejeans, some use webex. I have colleagues whose team work of basecamp. Some only work out of slack. An other group of colleagues do work out of github. Some are on piazza. And classes are run on canvas. You end up having teams who put todos in a google calendar, some are putting them on trello, some are github issues.

    It's all over the place. I can not check 10 different systems regularly. But all these people use email as a backup communication system. And that's why I think email is not going away anytime soon.

    • by pz ( 113803 )

      Where I work there is a very rigid formalism to submit proposals and have them approved up and down the chain.

      We originally did this on paper. That was some years ago.

      Then it was Word DOC files. This was about the time that email became popular, and each application had its informal email chain ferrying it about the approval process.

      Then it was the worst software I have ever used, hands down. It was a plug-in based web application. It was supposed to make the email chain go away. The software was so ba

  • by rockmuelle ( 575982 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:23AM (#58583740)

    ...have all served exactly the same purpose: quick, real time communication between colleagues. It's always been a useful communication method in addition to email. But, any one service has never been essential, only the fact that such services exist.

    Having used every one of those in the past (dating back to 1992, and CompuServe's version before that), the only reason we seem to switch is because one service gets too noisy or starts to get unreliable or there's just a trendier new one.

    So, maybe the idea of real time interaction is as useful as electricity, but no one service is indispensable and will be replaced by another at some point.

    -Chris

    • Slack does more than just simple text chat. It also allows: video chat, audio chat, group chat, sharing desktops, sharing files, sharing images in chat, sending formatted code with syntax highlighting, block quotes, searching chat history. It also has a reasonably clean and easy to use interface. Older chat clients have some of these things but probably not all (which is why Slack became so popular).

      Is it revolutionary? No. Is the marketing pitch overhyped? Yes.

      But all that being said it's still probably th

      • by es330td ( 964170 )
        When I had a computer consulting business in the 90's I told people that whatever MS release as 1.0, look at it to see *what* they were trying to accomplish but don't plan to use it. Large corporate customers will start using it and after reporting back the problems version 2.0 will be a substantial improvement.
  • by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:27AM (#58583776)

    replacing email with Slack changes the way employees of a company communicate.

    While that might be true, we do not use slack and precisely zero of our customers or vendors use slack. I think email is pretty safe for the foreseeable future.

    We believe every organization will switch to Slack or something like it

    Never underestimate the power of an installed base and a lowest common denominator. Fax machines are still a thing even today despite them being wildly obsolete for all but the craziest of corner cases. EVERYONE has email and like it or not it works. Email is approximately free. Slack isn't nor is it particularly useful to a huge array of businesses. Even if people use slack they would have to basically replicate email within slack anyway. I'm sure it works great for some groups but the rest of us are going to happily continue to exist without it.

    • Never underestimate the power of an installed base and a lowest common denominator. Fax machines are still a thing even today despite them being wildly obsolete for all but the craziest of corner cases. EVERYONE has email and like it or not it works. Email is approximately free.

      Doesn't match my experience in the industry. Fax is still a thing because it provides a roll that email doesn't, which is showing a receipt of arrival. By far, the vast majority of fax I see is fax server to fax server from people's computers. It is basically email with (legal) proof that somebody got your email. Which makes your "craziest of corner cases" a great deal of legal and healthcare paperwork. While fax software is usually proprietary (and bundled with the associated software that uses it), I doub

  • slack observations (Score:5, Insightful)

    by citylivin ( 1250770 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:40AM (#58583874)

    Yeah we have been using slack as a corporate communications tool for the last few years. here are my observations:

    1) management types and workaholics LOVE slack, because they can get instant communication with whatever idle thought they have. Are you the type of person who likes to feel important by being CONSTANTLY NOTIFIED of things? well then slack is great for your workflow!

    2) "slacker" employees love slack. Its like facebook, but you actually look like you are doing work. After all, it is a sanctioned work tool, unlike all the other social platforms. Many people have slack open all day, just chatting. I doubt even half of it is work related based on the chat histories i catch glimpses of.

    3) People who actually have to do work that requires more concentration than collaboration HATE slack. It interrupts your flow if you dont turn notifications off. If you do turn them off, slack will helpfully email you, bothering you there, that you are not checking your slack enough. Fun.

    4) You can put slack on your phone! so you can work all the time! and your boss can instantly reach you with whatever garbage he dreams up while drunk at 1130pm on a saturday night. yay work life balance!

    In conclusion, its great for people for whom email is not annoying and instant enough. You know, the people that send you 4 emails about the same thing, 3 minutes apart and if you dont respond in the next 15 minutes, come by to talk to you about them.

    Its great for social employees to pretend to be working while chatting. It IS just a slick mIRC client after all...
    Everyone else, finds it a distraction that we all have to now put up with to appease the workaholics and chatterboxes. Is it here to stay? probably, until the next fad rolls in. Maybe one where you can play games instead of doing actual work.

    Everything that you can do in slack, you can do in email. So I have never personally seen the point. The ads that they have in magazines always stress how FAST it is to connect with people over email. But the best part of email is that you can let it sit there and read it on your own schedule. This is the "problem" that slack endeavors to fix, making us all into neurotics that cant stay on the same task for more than 5 minutes.

    • Everything that you can do in slack, you can do in email. So I have never personally seen the point.

      Please. I get entirely too many emails, most of them are informational. Many times I will get an email, then 2 minutes later whoever sent me that email will come over to see if I had read it. IM-tools have their place, as does email. I don't think they serve the same purpose.

      Not talking about Slack per se, but in my career I have seen a lot of benefit in IM-tools on occasions.

      At a startup in 2005, we had our own IRC server. We used it all the time even in the office when we sat within earshot. You cou

  • The worse the financials are.
  • They'll succeed and take over take over the planet just like ride sharing has.

    HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

  • The Church of the SubGenius _must_ have Slack! (Yeah, that's probably what it was named after.)
  • We use slack, but we argue about whether to use threads or not.

    Some folks like threads as it hides the discussion behind a post.

    Others hate threads because they can't find and follow multiple concurrent discussions.

    So either it becomes an ongoing flow of everyone's consciousness (ala IRC) or it becomes a really bad live forum implementation.

    And I'm also surprised when colleagues want to IM me via slack instead of skype. When I tell them that the company doesn't have visibility on the skype messages but can

  • In my former job (in software) we used email all the time. We'd get 100-200 emails a day, and to succeed in your job (as PM or EM or senior IC) you'd have to stay on top of them -- it was hard to predict otherwise whether a message was going to be a pivotal cross-team communication or a dumb reply-all. Your personal email archive of all these messages was everything. Going on vacation was a disaster. It encouraged walled silos, because if you didn't have access to a different team's archive then you were an

    • so you don't work in a place where a hundred retards at once in chat try to get you to solve their little chickenshit issue while you're trying to get an system that brings in $3 million a day up...

      chat is good for some things, but email needs to be there. instant gratification retards need that boat anchor tied to their neck

    • by jrumney ( 197329 )
      So now instead of staying on top of 100-200 emails which you can personally sort and filter, you need to stay on top of a constant stream of 400-500 IMs a day where sorting and filtering is the sole responsibility of the same senders who make all those dumb reply-alls. And this is an improvement how?
      • by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

        So now instead of staying on top of 100-200 emails which you can personally sort and filter, you need to stay on top of a constant stream of 400-500 IMs a day where sorting and filtering is the sole responsibility of the same senders who make all those dumb reply-alls. And this is an improvement how?

        No, that's not how it works. The bottom line is that for me to be an informed senior architect/EM on top of cross-team issues, I used to be spending 1.5 hours/day on emails, and now it's down to 20mins/day for IMs+groups. It's interesting to ask why.

        Just to be clear, "personal sorting and filtering" is a tax. Sorting and filtering isn't where I add my best value. I add that by architecting, mentoring, guiding and coding.

        The key fact is that the division into (1) group-IMs, (2) 1:1 IMs, (3) group posts, (4)

  • .. wasn't Google Wave more advanced in the functionality it provided than Slack? What happened to that in the end?

  • Sounds like the pre-IPO pump is in full swing. Watch for immediate price collapse after IPO as employees cash out.

  • by nicolaiplum ( 169077 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @11:43AM (#58584296)

    Have they advanced to being present in more than one AWS availability zone? They weren't a year or so ago according to a presentation they gave to a conference I attended.

    I was pretty amazed at the lack of capability maturity for such a well-known product, it definitely came across as a trendy interface with hipster fans built on a shaky foundation.

    • Have they advanced to being present in more than one AWS availability zone?

      Do you think they could afford more than one?

  • At best, it is convenient. All too often, it is intrusive and annoying. As necessary as electricity? Investors who fall for this are those keen on buying bridges.
  • Am I the only one who thinks Slack is complete and utter garbage? I fucking hate it. (And all tools like it, including Cisco Teams and Microsoft Teams.) (And I think it's hysterical that *both* of those giants gave their Slack knock-off the same name.)

  • by mysidia ( 191772 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @12:40PM (#58584890)

    To be clear... We still need some kinds of Private, Length, Non-interruptable communications -- Documents, Etc.

    It is more than just being able to send and receive them, But it is also about BEING ABLE TO ORGANIZE communications.

    Last I check.... Slack is just a searchable timeline. You can't DRAG and DROP a conversation into a Folder and make a summarized thread object with a Subject line .

  • If you change the communication system at the office ... the way your employees communicate will change!!

  • I can honestly say Iâ€(TM)ve never seen Slack used for anything... well useful. I am sure there are some people that manage to use it, but itâ€(TM)s a very sloppy system. I know pretty much every company and team has tried it, but at least for what I work on, Gitter seems to be quite a bit better.

    Has anyone here managed to use Slack effectively? Do you actually use it instead of email? How do you keep it from just getting in the way?
  • Man, their IPO filing must have pages and pages of warnings in the SEC version.

  • Cisco Spark (now know as Webex Team) as well.

  • I struggle to see why businesses would use Slack when a similar product, Mattermost [mattermost.org], is available.

    Mattermost is:

    1. Free (Slack can be expensive if you have more than a handful of users).
    2. Open Source (so auditable for security issues).
    3. Self-hosted (important if you don't want your corp comms to be hosted outside of your org).

    GitLab even ships with Mattermost as well to integrate Slack-style dev comms into your org.

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