Bank of America CEO: 'We Want a Cashless Society' (yahoo.com) 234
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Yahoo Finance: Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan embraced the digital money movement on Wednesday, saying his firm has "more to gain than anybody" from the booming trend of non-cash transactions. "We want a cashless society," Moynihan, who heads up the second largest U.S. bank, told attendees at Fortune's Brainstorm Finance conference. He pointed out that more than half of all money transactions are already processed electronically, with the rise of cryptocurrencies, and payment systems like PayPal, Zelle, and digital wallets. The banking sector has "already digitized," Moynihan said on Wednesday. "The business has moved digitally and it will continue to move that way. It's just figuring out how to add the value."
they like the fees! (Score:5, Insightful)
they like the fees!
Re:they like the fees! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:they like the fees! (Score:5, Insightful)
That .. .. and they can obtain granular analysis and track every single transaction everyone makes, and - the obvious one - ascend to absolutely controlling the economic activity of every one. A Beijing wet dream of sorts.
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and - the obvious one - ascend to absolutely controlling the economic activity of every one. A Beijing wet dream of sorts.
Banks would never do that! Or if they did, the government would stop them!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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They don't have to buy and maintain ATMs
ATM networks in the UK are free to use, as the inter-bank fees generate a profit to the ATM provider.
I guess the interesting question is whether it's cheaper for a bank to pay the ATM provider to dispense cash to their account holders or to pay the transaction fees at retail.
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"It costs us less AND we can charge bigger fees for it" = ka-ching!
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Oh true -- there are other minor benefits to curtailing people's independence in spending money without fees and interest charges.
But Joe_Dragon is right .. "Here's Why Bank of America Loves the Credit Card Business" [fool.com].
10 billion in card fees and interest income per quarter is nothing to sneeze at. A cashless society would only grow that pot of money more. And the income selling purchase transaction data is a sweet side revenue stream [forbes.com].
One of the best things I did was reduce my credit limit.
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They probably like the reduced costs:
Plus, when cash isn't an option, they get a cut of every single transaction you make and get to raise the percentage they take (currently between 1 and 5% for credit cards) and there is Sweet Fuck All you can do about it because your option to use cash is gone. Of course banks want a cashless society, its free money to them.
That's why I'm glad the UK govt has forced banks to give free access to cash. I only use it for small transactions, but I'll sure as hell miss it once it's gone.
Re: they like the fees! (Score:4, Insightful)
... but that would never happen.
Re:they like the fees! (Score:5, Insightful)
they like the fees!
Just look at the fees they charge if you're not one of them and use one of their ATMs.
Not only that, they can sell your information to get even more money. If all the transactions are digital, and thus recorded, they can aggregate their customer's data. If your bank balance is between $5,000 and $25,000, you are more likely to purchase x, y, and z. The average customer between ages 25 - 35 spends X dollars on each grocery purchase. Ten percent of our clients use their credit card to buy beer weekly.
Re:they like the fees! (Score:5, Insightful)
They can also cut you off and by cabal agreements, I mean cut you off from all payments and all receipts, you will basically be bankrupt, until the corporate cabal decides you are allowed to ask permission to access the resources of your country. Of course the psychopathic cunts at the top want a cashless society, a percentage on ALL payments, basically a corporate tax and they can declare you a non person, not allowed to access any of the resources of your society.
A cash capitalist society is a SLAVE SOCIETY, you buy nothing, your ask your master's permission to have it.
Re:they like the fees! (Score:4, Interesting)
A cash capitalist society is a SLAVE SOCIETY, you buy nothing, your ask your master's permission to have it.
While there is some truth to this there is also the flip side of enabling even the smallest would-be merchant to accept payment safely. On a recent trip to China of all places, street vendors with nothing but a propane hot plate and some ingredients were selling breakfasts as fast as they could cook them while customers paid by scanning a QR code dangling from the carts. The vendors didn't have to worry about safeguarding collected cash, and it was even more sanitary since they didn't have to handle bills to make change while cooking, etc. So there are ups and downs to cashless, not just downs.
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So there are ups and downs to cashless, not just downs.
Since the downs include supporting a hydraulic empire [wikipedia.org], I do not care about the ups. We live in a hydraulic empire anyway, but it is not something I will encourage.
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Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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"Also forbidden us to analyze data for marketing purposes"
I can think of about a billion ways around this one.
Re: they like the fees! (Score:3)
Typically, ATM fees go to who owns the machine and who owns the property where the machine sits.
In many - if not most - cases, this isn't a bank.
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true, which is when your bank slaps another couple of bucks on the transaction itself. ("This atm charges 3 bucks. This is in addition to whatever fees your bank may impose. Proceed?")
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they like the fees!
That's how they add the value.
Big surprise... NOT (Score:4, Insightful)
Its not surprising that a company that gets rich off things other than cash (credit cards, bank accounts, debit cards etc) wants to see cash go away.
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Misdirected comment. It's fine getting rich of other things, but they actively get poor due to cash. Handling cash costs money in the time and effort sense.
There are plenty of places (such as shops) who don't get rich of things other than cash who would gladly see them go away for the same reasons.
Re: There is nothing easier than printing money (Score:2)
"Raising the debt ceiling" is another way of saying "not defaulting on the loans we already took out".
I can understand where your confusion comes from though. You believed Mitch McConnel's misinformation campaign during the Obama years.
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"Raising the debt ceiling" is another way of saying "not defaulting on the loans we already took out".
Let's say a government reaches its debt ceiling. Then it reacts to having reached its debt ceiling by not spending any more money on anything but debt service. How would that constitute a default?
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Let's say a government reaches its debt ceiling.
"A government" means the US. Almost no other country in the world has a debt ceiling that they might reach. To a lot of people outside the US, it's a confusing idea that a government can decide to spend money knowing that they won't be able to pay those bills.
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Congratulations, you've just shut down the military
Those outside big military-industrial complex districts would argue that the United States overspends on defense anyway.
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Perhaps we should spend money better?
That's like me saying " But you can't stop me from charging up my cards, I need dinner, and my car!" - all the while spending half my income on crack.
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Yeah, they do (Score:5, Informative)
We don't...
Or do I stand alone?
Re:Yeah, they do (Score:5, Insightful)
We don't...
Or do I stand alone?
I'm with you.
I am sure I do not want every time I loan my sister $100 before payday tracked. I really don't want some tax drone trying to say it is income when she finally repays me 6 months later, then tries to tax me on it. Or tax her on it for that matter.
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I am sure I do not want every time I loan my sister $100 before payday tracked. I really don't want some tax drone trying to say it is income when she finally repays me 6 months later, then tries to tax me on it. Or tax her on it for that matter.
Lending money to a relative in need without permission is a sin and should be taxed.
Re:Yeah, they do (Score:5, Informative)
To the existing list of a thousand reasons why 'cashless' is a terrible idea, I'll add #1001 - Because Bank of America wants it.
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> Or do I stand alone?
That's why we need cryptocurrencies, or anything that's out of control of these cock suckers and the government. Right now, it appears that's cryptocurrencies.
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> We don't... > Or do I stand alone? That's why we need cryptocurrencies, or anything that's out of control of these cock suckers and the government. Right now, it appears that's cryptocurrencies.
No, it doesn't appear that way at all. Moving from "govt and few corps holding all control of currency" to "shady and uneducated idiots holding all control" is not an improvement.
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We don't...
Or do I stand alone?
You don't stand alone, but in the wider world you may stand split with your side. I for one basically live in a cashless society. The only time I use cash is to go to another country and then I realise what a pain it actually is. Back home if I need to go to a bank teller or make a deposit I get charged.
But then the varying acceptance by countries is quite dependent on how banking and society works in that country. We have strict data protection laws which alleviates a lot of the privacy concerns about bank
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Data protection laws will only protect you as long as they are not broken, and your data is not getting leaked or stolen. ... which (if have been keeping attention on this site you should know), happens much too frequently.
The only effectual way to prevent data about you from being spread around and traded is to not allow data about yourself to be collected in the first place.
This and other reasons (which you can read about in the comment section) is why digital professionals (who are in the know) want cash
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And yet they work very well. Data protection laws in the EU include how data is collected and handled, and European companies (especially banks) put quite a bit more effort in that say. .. Target.
But the point of the data here is not that it necessarily needs complete protection. Having someone know a few expenses isn't inherently anything that would affect me especially when those companies are heavily restricted on what they can and can't do with it. Having it sold without recourse or care to someone unkn
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Reminds me of an old joke:
Yard sale (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's say you're buying something for 50 cents at a yard sale. How many yard sales have you been to where the seller accepts an electronic payment for your 50 cent total?
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I'm waiting for the day the guy with the cardboard sign at the end of the freeway ramp takes Apple Pay.
Go to China. I've heard that even the bums there have a QR code on their signs that people can use to give them money through Alipay. https://www.asiaone.com/china/no-loose-change-beggars-china-now-accepting-mobile-payments [asiaone.com]
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Social cooling ... (Score:5, Insightful)
... is what it's called [socialcooling.com].
People are starting to realize that this 'digital reputation' could limit their opportunities.
(And that these algorithms are often biased, and built on bad data.)
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... is what it's called [socialcooling.com] [socialcooling.com].
No mod points so I'll comment instead. That's a fantastic website (bonus: and works perfectly without Javascript). It will be handy to share with the Eric Schmidt "if you don't do anything wrong then what's the problem" crowd. Thanks for sharing.
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Clearly just because they're not out to get you, doesn't mean you're not paranoid.
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Well, I’ll ignore the bank industry for a bit...
How much of your income do you spend at the liquor store down the street? A perspective employer doing a background check might want to know and judge you based on that. Do you buy things from the marijuana dispensary? I don’t want to hire some pot-head. Or if you’re using it for medical reasons, that might imply you have a bad medical condition. I’d rather not deal with that in a perspective employee...
Remember that if information
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Or if you’re using it for medical reasons, that might imply you have a bad medical condition. I’d rather not deal with that in a perspective employee...
If the medical condition is severe enough, it might be considered a disability. There are longstanding laws against discriminating against candidates for employment with disabilities.
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Remember that if information exists, it can be subpoenaed...
That information has already existed for a long time for what is in many countries a clear majority of people who choose to use credit/debit cards rather than cash. If you can point me to the wave of subpoenas for them from any source (much less from prospective employers as in your examples), I might start to share your concern.
yeah (Score:3, Informative)
We want a transaction fee-free society.
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How does that work for Linux kernel, or libreoffice? How am I the product of those, for example?
No, those you pay for with labor, making them work well enough to be useful in larger contexts than the very small context in which they were developed.
Bank of America Free Society (Score:2)
And we want a BoA free society.
Let's stick it to them (Score:2)
Freedom lovers be like (Score:5, Insightful)
How to render an idea unpopular (Score:4, Interesting)
It must be getting on for three months since I did a cashless transaction.
Dollar is For All Debts Public Or Private (Score:3)
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The credit card is irrelevant. Handling cash costs money for banks and businesses. They aren't looking to their profit centres with this comment, they are looking to eliminate expenses.
As for your comment title, I will wager the only "Debt" (in the legal financial sense) you ever have been in is buying a house and a car. You don't magically incur debt in a legal sense without a written financial contract. And no you're not in debt in the time between when you eat dinner and settle the bill.
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If you eat at a restaurant with table service, you are in debt from when the food is served until you pay.
Value (Score:5, Interesting)
Bank of America CEO: 'We Want a Cashless Society' "
I am sure you do. Well, I think your objectivity might be a bit tainted and you might have a conflict of interest. Many of us value the option of transactions that:
1) Don't spy on us
2) Don't restrict us
3) Don't fee us to death
4) Don't rely on technology having to always work
5) Can't fail due to technology
6) Can't be "hacked"
So, I want a "CHOICE" society, where we can individually choose to use what method of payment we want to use. Not a society where banks decide this for us.
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Thank you for writing such a succinct so I don't have to post a wall-of-text rant.
I'll happy go 100% cashless if all of that were guaranteed to be true. And we know it won't be.
It's all about control (Score:4, Insightful)
Once cash goes away, anonymous, untrackable transactions will be a thing of the past.
They'll be able to track everything everyone does, always. Want to sell something on ebay? You didn't pay tax on that. Want to do some extra work on the side? You don't have a tax number. Want to buy drugs? Transactions with known drug dealers will be restricted. Want to donate money to a political undesirable? Marks you as an undesirable, too. Want to buy a bunch of booze for a party? That much alcohol is unhealthy, transaction declined. Buy too much fast food? Bad for you, you can only buy so much in a month. Don't buy enough fruit? You'll receive constant nags to push you in the right direction.
This isn't tinfoil hat talk. Our elites have never before in human history had so much power over us. And you expect them to use their power to benefit us? LOL, how ridiculous. They're going to run our lives the way they see fit. Of course, if you play ball with them and be a good little toady and enjoy your open office plan, you'll do well under their system. Defy them and watch yourself be disconnected from the financial system, unable to buy or sell.
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What, you never heard of owing somebody a favor? Barter? Trade?
Those can be cashless, but they can also be quite untrackable.
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Capital gains requires that some specific monetary value can be agreed upon, but what if there is none?
One man's trash is another's treasure, after all.
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Want to donate money to a political undesirable? Marks you as an undesirable, too.
We already have that. [wikipedia.org]
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Defy them and watch yourself be disconnected from the financial system, unable to buy or sell.
I'm sorry, what? I can't hear you over all this shouting of "it's a private company they can do what they want" and "freedom of association" for when elites and their blue checkmarks exercise their power to kick anyone they don't like from social media.
Oh look, someone else just got deplatformed for "conspiracy theories", I can hardly keep track of them anymore. I wonder if they were talking about the global financial hegemony and the banking cartels? Guess I'll go jump onto the free speech platforms and..
VAT (Score:2)
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If the government did this, you'd be burying your AR-15s for the struggle. But because it's a shiny card and it's the fReE mArKeT, we're cool with that.
Because most people don't know what is actually going on.
So you cannot own your own money (Score:4, Interesting)
When society goes cashless you will not own even your own wealth, the banks will and there is a reason they want this.
BOA is already willing to try to control you with money... look at how they have run PayPal, cutting people off and messing with their money and lively hoods.
And besides, requiring people to have a bank account would likely be challenged on Constitutional grounds as well.
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When you have cash you don't own your wealth either. The government can chose to devalue it at its whim.
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Even better: They paid everyone $20/ounce for the gold then, and shortly afterwards ( Once the feds had it) revalued it at $35.
Of course he does (Score:3)
If they ever pull this off and cash is outlawed, you can bet your ass those transaction fees will only keep increasing due to " increased business costs ". :|
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ATMS were originally free. Nobody wanted to use them, the banks realized they saved them money.
Then, once everyone was accustomed to using them: fees arrive.
They want to charge negative interest rates (Score:4, Informative)
Nobody but the ATF, FBI and banking industry want a cashless society.
BTW, Venezuela is awash in US dollars. [yahoo.com].
Why aren't all the big bank CEOs in jail? (Score:5, Insightful)
After the 2008 collapse none of the perpetrators who engineered the policies causing the crash were prosecuted for their criminal activity. Most of them became even more wealthy in the bailout. There has been no general recovery and those in the lower 60% of the economy are worse off then they were before 2008. The current crop of banker-thieves are stealing money from the economy like the crash never happened.
The reason so many young people are embracing Democratic-Socialism is the direct result of the economic looting that has defined the system since 2000. I know this makes the libertards who dominate Slashdot crazy, but everyone who is not delusional-right sees the game is rigged.
Another, perhaps larger bust is coming before the end of 2020. Again there is shadow banking and the real estate bubble has reinflated. Trump's deranged tax and trade policies will make it even more toxic then the last time.
I personally look forward to a huge dose of schadenfreude over the collapse of all cryptocurrency. Unfortunately, like the flat earthers, I doubt cryptocurrency mania will ever truly die.
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The reason so many young people are embracing Democratic-Socialism is the direct result of the economic looting that has defined the system since 2000.
Wasn't the "economic looting" a direct result of Democrat-Socialism policies that more or less forced the evil banks to make loans to high-risk groups?
Also, I seem to recall that it was the democrats in power to decided to bailout the banks after 2008's crash.
Seriously, what planet did you just arrive from?
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Wasn't the "economic looting" a direct result of Democrat-Socialism policies that more or less forced the evil banks to make loans to high-risk groups?
No. The economic looting is a result of banks issuing those loans packaging them into complex financial instruments, and then blatantly lying about the risk factors of those instruments. The Community Reinvestment Act had existed since 1977, without any particular problems. It was only when the banks began engaging in massive debt ratings fraud that things fell apart.
But wait, there's more. Only 6% of loans were CRA-related loans. The vast majority of loans had nothing to do with CRA.
But wait, there's
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Too big to fail should always mean "well, then we need to split you up".
Of course they do....Duh! (Score:2)
Subtract value (Score:2)
"It's just figuring out how to add the value."
They have no intention of adding value, only taking it away.
Reading all the post.....we need to ban together (Score:3)
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I'm starting a cryptocurrency called Fool's Gold. I bet you would jump at the chance to be an early investor.
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This is why cryptocurrency was invented. This is why people want it so bad.
I don't want it at all. Bitcoin keeps a public record of every transaction ever conducted forever.
We want to take money control away from the government and the banks.
Neither do I support total abdication responsibility to governance free anarchy protocols because good governance is "too hard".
We also do NOT want cryptocurrency from Facebook or any other public or private company. It needs to be completely anonymous.
Anonymous cryptocurrency is literally an oxymoron.
Everyone here that does not want big banks or a cashless system needs to support two or three of the top cryptocurrencies or the banks will win.
Personally I won't be supporting any. Would rather see consensus for a modern real-time federated transaction systems administered by government bureaucracy where it costs institutions nothing to participate and transactions are only
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of course they do (Score:2)
look at all the transaction and other fees they would get if society went cashless. they would make a killing.
Cash has a 0% interest rate (Score:3)
Banks can't have negative interest rates on normal accounts because people would just take their money out - cash has an interest rate of 0% which would be better than, say -0.5%.
A post on the IMF blog states it baldly: "In a cashless world, there would be no lower bound on interest rates". (https://blogs.imf.org/2019/02/05/cashing-in-how-to-make-negative-interest-rates-work/). So they could charge you anything they like as a non-governmental tax rate that goes straight to their profit. And you would have no choice; it would be harder to avoid than actual tax.
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Cash has a 0% interest rate
Ummm, no. Cash is designed to lose its value over time. It loses its value roughly in relation to the Prime Lending rate... about 4% right now I think. Cash has a negative interest rate. The longer you hold on to it, the less value that it has.
Response (Score:3)
We don't, fuck you BoA
Of course you do. (Score:2)
Thanks for at least being so honest to admit it. That's a first, I could imagine.
Not smart or possible (Score:3)
One reason: disasters.
After hurricane Maria ravaged Puerto Rico in 2017 the island was left without power and communications for weeks and months. The US government flew in planes with cash so that people could still do business since electronic payments were not possible. There is still a need for physical currency.
Getting their grubby mitts in every transaction .. (Score:2)
It's just figuring out how to add the value." (Score:2)
Translation = "It's just figuring out how to take more profit"
Well OF COURSE (Score:2)
Weird... (Score:2)
You'd almost think people would see this for what it was, a business levying a huge tax on it's users. They charge you to keep YOUR money with them, charge other people to use YOUR money that's with them, charge you to take your money back from them too. Nevermind that several have been caught intentionally fucking over their customers so they can charge them more fees.
What's weird is the OMGNOTAXESYOUMEANGOOBERMINT people are nowhere to be found in all of this. It's like those people don't actually care ab
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THIS THIS THIS!!!!
I just had a look at a $20 bill, and there it was:
"This Note Is Legal Tender For All Debts Public And Private"
The CEO of BoA can go fuck himself hard with a rough corncob, repeatedly, as far as I'm concerned.
What a world we live in...
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I could support something along those lines, or at least a corporationlessz society.
Have an actual person/people be actually responsible for a company's actions, none of this "shareholders" who can't be prosecuted for a company's actions crap.
You're paying for branches (Score:2)
Why does my bank charge a $7 per month "maintenance" fee for my savings account?
Why does that same account pay only about 0.1 per cent interest?
Because it has branches and ATMs. Instead, switch to an online-only bank with no branches and no ATMs. Some random examples in the United States are Ally Bank and American Express Personal Savings. I can think of a few drawbacks to online-only banking:
1. If you regularly use cash, such as at yard sales, you'll have to switch to withdrawing money using supermarkets' offer of cash back with debit card purchase.
2. If you regularly receive checks, such as birthday money or paychecks from an employer too small t