Amazon Will No Longer Use Tips To Pay Delivery Drivers' Base Salaries (theverge.com) 88
Amazon is ending its practice of using customer tips to pay its Flex drivers' wages, according to a report by the Los Angeles Times and confirmed by The Verge. From the report: The practice came under fire when it was revealed back in February that Amazon (along with other delivery services like Instacart and DoorDash) were using customer tips to pay delivery drivers their base pay, letting the corporations in question save money at the expense of compensating their workers. Now, Amazon confirms that the initial minimum payment for each delivery will come entirely from Amazon, with driver's tips going directly to the driver on top of that -- i.e., the almost universally understood intent of how tips should work in the first place, where they're a bonus for a specific person on top of their base pay from the company for which they work.
"Amazon will always contribute at least $15 per scheduled hour to driver pay, and often more, based on location and demand," says Amazon spokesperson Rena Lunak. "As always, for deliveries with tipping opportunities, drivers will receive 100% of the tips." The difference now is that the tips will be in addition to that base pay, instead of being part of it. The new payment policy is set to start today, the company confirmed. In an email to The Verge, Amazon clarified that it would be contributing a minimum of "at least $15-$19 per scheduled hour, depending on location," -- seemingly down from the original promise of $18 to $25 that Amazon Flex's site used to offer, although it's unclear how much of that old number came from Amazon and how much was from worker's tips. For its part, Amazon does say that it's "raising" its minimum contribution to those new numbers, which would imply that it previously contributed less than $15 an hour before -- again, depending on the location. Amazon declined to say what its minimum contribution was previously. The news comes after DoorDash is still pocketing workers' tips almost a month after it promised to stop.
"Amazon will always contribute at least $15 per scheduled hour to driver pay, and often more, based on location and demand," says Amazon spokesperson Rena Lunak. "As always, for deliveries with tipping opportunities, drivers will receive 100% of the tips." The difference now is that the tips will be in addition to that base pay, instead of being part of it. The new payment policy is set to start today, the company confirmed. In an email to The Verge, Amazon clarified that it would be contributing a minimum of "at least $15-$19 per scheduled hour, depending on location," -- seemingly down from the original promise of $18 to $25 that Amazon Flex's site used to offer, although it's unclear how much of that old number came from Amazon and how much was from worker's tips. For its part, Amazon does say that it's "raising" its minimum contribution to those new numbers, which would imply that it previously contributed less than $15 an hour before -- again, depending on the location. Amazon declined to say what its minimum contribution was previously. The news comes after DoorDash is still pocketing workers' tips almost a month after it promised to stop.
Amazon drivers get tips? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:1)
Now, there's a job that's begging to be automated, or get done by drones.
Re:Amazon drivers get tips? (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Amazon drivers get tips? (Score:4, Interesting)
Thaqt's way most UPS, FedEx, and USPS deliveries are done (minus the picture) unless it's something that requires a signature.
THe Amazon pic actually can come in handy. One time they delivered a package of ours to the wrong address (the address was right on the package, and UPS and USPS have both done the same thing with either packages or mail). THe Amzon delivery pic helped find the house they delivered it to. (same mix up each time, apparently 86 and 66 look alike to a lot of folks in the delivery industry...)
Re: (Score:2)
Right and since those aren't tipped services why would Amazon drivers be tipped either?
Re: (Score:2)
Never heard of these pictures. Where do they go, Facebook? Is this one of those hipster prime benefits or something, so people have a picture to reshare? I have found myself several times re-delivering packages to neighbors that were dumped on my step instead.
Re: Amazon drivers get tips? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Then don't tip those drivers. Tip the ones that do put in some extra effort.
Re: (Score:3)
Why would you tip a package delivery service at all?
Re: (Score:2)
If you were going to tip a package delivery service... wouldn't those be the ones you tip? The ones who don't bother you?
Re:Amazon drivers get tips? (Score:5, Interesting)
Driver's for what? None of the Amazon delivery drivers here even ring the doorbell. Drop the package on the porch, snap a pic and off.
Amazon drivers are overworked and underpaid. If they called every recipient and waited until they came home to take delivery they'd never be able to finish their package quota. But why even bother with front-door delivery? It's fine for businesses where there is always somebody on site during business hours but it sucks for regular people. I absolutely loathe front-door delivery since I'm usually never at home when they show up which means either delivery delays when they take the package back and try again the next day or a stolen package when they leave it on your doorstep. Here in Europe some of these courier services offer the option of delivering packages via automated mail boxes situated in supermarkets, malls and other reasonably secure locations. These things even send you an e-mail and SMS with a pass-code when you package is ready. I've made this my default preferred delivery option wherever possible. I can't imagine you don't have this sort of system in the US.
Re: (Score:2)
Also, WHY are we still building houses that don't have some place for delivery drivers to lock up packages on the porch?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
"Here in Europe some of these courier services offer the option of delivering packages via automated mail boxes situated in supermarkets, malls and other reasonably secure locations. These things even send you an e-mail and SMS with a pass-code when you package is ready. I've made this my default preferred delivery option wherever possible. I can't imagine you don't have this sort of system in the US."
Amazon has delivery lockers here in the USA. The one next to me is named Quinoa. I walk up to it, input my
Re: (Score:2)
Amazon has delivery lockers here in the USA. The one next to me is named Quinoa. I walk up to it, input my password which was sent to my phone, and take my delivery.
Your imagination sucks really badly.
I know of 1 place in my city that has Amazon lockers. It's an easy 30-40 minutes away in the middle of downtown with no conveniently located public parking. It's clearly intended for use only by the students at the nearby university. And I'm in a big city.
Re: (Score:2)
Amazon has delivery lockers here in the USA. The one next to me is named Quinoa. I walk up to it, input my password which was sent to my phone, and take my delivery.
Your imagination sucks really badly.
That's kind of what I said isn't it? I can not imagine that deliver lockers do not exist in America and if you do you should sign up for it in stead of having shit delivered to and stolen from your front porch. You really need to work on your reading comprehension.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A lot of neighborhoods in the US are very nice and have no problem with packages being left outside, but there are also plenty of options like what you described. Amazon also will deliver packages to your garage or car trunk if you give them electronic access.
Why? If they have these lockers in a convenient location for you, mark them as your preferred delivery option. If they don't, set up a locker like that at your house. My local Bauhaus store sells these things for at pretty reasonable prices and most of them would require an angle grinder and a crowbar to get into in anything less than 20 minutes if you bolt the thing to a stone wall. That wold deter about 99.8% of all normal package thieves.
Re:Amazon drivers get tips? (Score:5, Informative)
This is probably about the ones that do piece work (Score:2)
Also, it's incredibly fucked up that we've returned to 1920s style piece work.
Re: (Score:2)
To me, if they dump the package on the step and leave it unguarded all day long, then they should be paying me extra. I'd rather pick up at the UPS store than have missing packages or packages soaked in rainwater.
Re: (Score:2)
What "almost universally understood intent"? (Score:5, Interesting)
For tipped positions in the US, the law and practice has almost exclusively been that tips make up a large fraction of the minimum wage. For example, the federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour. The employer must pay at least $2.13/hour, or enough to make the employer-plus-tips total wage at least $7.25/hour, whichever is greater. This rule applies to any position that typically receives more than $30/month in tips.
In the last few years, some states have adopted different rules, but that basic scheme was how it worked for decades across the country, and how it still works in most of the country. Whoever wrote "almost universally understood intent" is either deeply ignorant or lying.
Re:What "almost universally understood intent"? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
it is. That's the reason why I dont consider tipping optional for vocations that have it. (and really would prefer if such positions were paid a living base wage to start.)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:What "almost universally understood intent"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's the deal though;
In the US, there's this situation where people dont realize that the person working your table gets paid between 2$/hr and 3$/hr, with the EXPECTATION that any difference between that an min wage will be made up for in tips.
As such, there people who routinely never tip. As in, NEVER. They erroneously believe that the server is being paid sufficiently, and does not need any extra.
There are others that think the traditional 15-20% tip is outrageous, and only top a few dollars, or in some cases, cents.
The intention of a tip should not, nor should it ever be, to be the primary means by which a person makes enough money to live. Yet that is what the situation in the US is like
I would much rather that the servers get paid at least minimum wage, and that tips then be counted as "extra income" on their yearly W2 tax form.
The argument of "Oh, but the prices of everythng on menus will skyrocket!" is not compelling to me. All I see when somebody puts that is "I am in denial about the actual costs of the things I buy or use, and expect other people to eat the difference for me."
Re: (Score:2)
Restaurant owners would possibly object as increased prices of menu item would likely affect selection made by customers - physiology of .99 pricing at work.
Re: (Score:2)
I liked this about Europe. Everything got rounded to the nearest 0.05 or 0.10 in many countries. This includes rounding in the customer's favor! Trying to collect a Euro cent can be hard. Further, in some places the goods are priced such that rounding isn't necessary (either tax is included in the listed price, or the price is set such that adding the tax results in a nice round number).
Re: (Score:2)
We have tried in some restaurants to not have tips and instead increase the prices slightly to compensate. The customers for some reason HATED this. Many Americans consider tips their way to influence the servers, which is frankly, absurd. They want to be able to punish the bad waiter (even though almost no one does) and reward the good servers (who get the standard 15-20%). Losing that fictitious control annoys a lot of customers for some reason, although it's no different from if you want to Burger Ki
Re: (Score:3)
In Belgium and probably all over Europe
In Belgium and probably all over Europe, it is not the custom to tip. But if somebody does tip (and yes, sometimes people do even in Europe) then indeed it is the almost universally understood that the intent is for the tip to go to the person being tipped, and is not intended to be free money donated to the business.
Re: (Score:2)
... and that intention is being met by Amazon in this case, presumably with the legally required withholding for anticipated income tax.
I live in the suburbs of Washington, DC. Last year, DC passed a ballot initiative prohibiting employers from being able to credit tips towards salaries. Restaurant workers opposed the law by a large majority, because they get a lot more income from tips than from a higher base salary in a tip-free system. It was so unpopular that the city council eventually repealed the law
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In Belgium and probably all over Europe. What they did when TVA started was to say that it would be simpeler for the customer if all prices would be included. This means both service and TVA.
The calculation would be 16% service and 21% TVA. And it was done to make it easier for the customer.
Imagene how much easier it would be that you can look in a menu and see a price of 15.00 USD for something and then 2.00 USD for a drink and you know that you will pay 17.00 USD. Instead now. Instead now you see:
10.99 for the one item and 1.49 for the other. So now you have to calculate how much that will be. So first you need to be aware of all the taxes all over the country to know how much is added in taxes. Then you need to do an evaluation of the staff. Next you need to do the calculation of how much you need to pay.
So you end up with paying 17.00 USD as well. You pay the same amount.
And what to do if the person is a bad waiter? You do not come back or let the owner know. The person will either get fired or the place goes bust. Or perhaps enough people like the way the waiter does the service. e.g. I personally hate it when they come by my table every 10 seconds to ask if I need anything. I am old enough to aks if I want something.
I am there with others. If I want to pay people to pay attention to me, I go to a brothel.
In Canada and in many countries, All prepared (restaurant style) food is taxed at 15%. Other groceries / foods are not taxed. The hamburger and soda are taxed equally at 14.9% (rate where I live)
Re: (Score:1)
I envy the kind of privilege that has allowed you to never encounter this fact before. I can only assume none of your friends or other acquaintances had to work in a job as declasse as waitstaff or, even worse, busboy.
Re:What "almost universally understood intent"? (Score:5, Insightful)
it's possible he lives in a country with sensible labor laws. (and is thus, confused and confounded by the antics in our country that lacks them.)
Re: (Score:2)
Which means workers get paid less, not more and less likely to be paid according to their effort leading to sub-par customer service. Pro's and cons everywhere, but I'd much rather go to an American restaurant for service than to a European restaurant and having worked both, I'd much rather like working at an American system too - much more opportunity to get money.
Re:What "almost universally understood intent"? (Score:4, Informative)
Which means workers get paid less, not more and less likely to be paid according to their effort leading to sub-par customer service. Pro's and cons everywhere, but I'd much rather go to an American restaurant for service than to a European restaurant and having worked both, I'd much rather like working at an American system too - much more opportunity to get money.
Dude, these American workers are being paid a bonus in the form of tips by their American customers for doing good work but because of crappy US labour laws their American employer seems to be legally entitled to confiscate their tips and pocket them for himself. In places who, unlike the US, have strict and sensible labour laws employers get punished for confiscating (i.e. stealing) tips from their employees.
Re: (Score:2)
Also another reason to avoid a cashless economy. If you tip in cash, it's much harder for employers to steal.
Re: (Score:2)
A lot of states have different limits, and some ban the practice entirely [dol.gov]. That's something most Europeans don't seem to understand about the U.S. The states are almost akin to the EU countries, while the Federal government is more like the EU. The Federal government sets some guidelines in law, but most laws of this nature are left up for each s
Re: (Score:2)
What? The story makes it clear that the employer wasn't pickering these tips. It was, in fact, passing the money along to the employees.
Re: (Score:2)
BS. Nobody gets paid according to their effort in the US. For an untipped job, the more sweat a job entails the less the pay. Sit behind a desk and you get paid more even if you just look at cat videos all day, but use a shovel on your job and your pay goes down. That's for jobs with and without unions alike.
As for European restaurants, I liked the service there for the most part. In some countries you have to get used to the different culture (yes, it's because of culture and not unionization). I liked
Re: (Score:2)
That commenter's unfamiliarity with a system does not make that system exploitative. Jumping to that kind of conclusion shows a provinciality that people should strive to avoid.
Re: (Score:3)
Where I live - Greece - we have a myriad of other problems, but despite the fa
Re: (Score:3)
Have you ever been in a restaurant and had a good meal and service and thought to yourself, "I think I'll leave some money on the table so the owner of this place can have a bigger profit margin this week"?
No?
Then you know damned well what the universally understood intent is; to give a little extra money to a workers who did good job.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, delivery driver is also not a position that people would normally expect to have tips make up part of their salary, unlike wait staff. It's pretty much generally understood that, outside of restaurants, tips given to people are on top of their regular base salary and not that the base salary given by the employer is reduced by the amount of the tip.
Re: (Score:3)
In other words that the employer pays well bellow minimum wage and the tips make up for it.
Why else would you be tipping?
It's also the reason I hate tipping since it feels like emotional extortion over there.
Re: (Score:2)
It's intended to be motivation for good work. If your wait staff doesn't do a good job, you don't tip or tip less accordingly and if they do a really good job, you tip more. Good waiters can make a bunch more, just calculate the tip you gave, multiply by the number of tables they cover and adjust for the portion of the hour you spent there to get an hourly wage... $10-15 tip is average for your party? They have 6 tables to do? You spent 45m there? Poor workers for sure.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Come on, lets me honest here.
Tipping is more or less exclusively in the food handling and preparation industry. And it is not because that is the only industry where quality matters.
We tip people because we don't want them spitting in our food.
Re: (Score:2)
We tip people because we don't want them spitting in our food.
In that case, shouldn't we be tipping before we get our food?
Re: (Score:3)
I'm not american, but I always assumed that in america all tips were treated the same.
In other words that the employer pays well bellow minimum wage and the tips make up for it.
Why else would you be tipping?
It's also the reason I hate tipping since it feels like emotional extortion over there.
Like I said, that's only for 1 or 2 different jobs. Things like waiters or maybe valets(for clarity since you aren't American: people who park your car for you). Outside those, it's expected that a tip is an addition, not a replacement, to their employer-provided wage.
But yeah, I'm not much of a tipping fan myself. I would rather have the cost baked into the cost of my food, and if the waiter does a really good job, toss them a couple extra bucks.
Re: (Score:2)
my biggest problem with valets is that a tiny sliver of them know how to drive a standard transmission vehicle, I've had to park my vehicle personally several times because the kid couldn't drive it, but still wanted a tip for holding my key.
Re: (Score:3)
In the case of Amazon, Door Dash and whoever else, the companies were subtracting the value of the tip from the employees' pay. This is not the same as the case for tipped restaurant employees, whose base pay is allowed to be very low because tips will be received. Tips are always intended to be an addition to
Re: (Score:2)
IANL, but quoting the US Dept of Labor:
Retention of Tips: A tip is the sole property of the tipped employee regardless of whether the employer takes a tip credit. [1] The FLSA prohibits any arrangement between the employer and the tipped employee whereby any part of the tip received becomes the property of the employer. For example, even where a tipped employee receives at least $7.25 per hour in wages directly from the employer, the employee may not be required to turn over his or her tips to the employer.
Illegal, but a workaround [Re:What "almost uni...] (Score:2)
Thanks for the quote.
The businesses get around this, however, by calling their employees "independent contractors".
Re: What "almost universally understood intent"? (Score:3)
Universally understood, not universally practiced. The tipped wage in Canada is also allowed to be lower than minimum wage, but you would be surprised how few people know that. At least part of it is that most people don't WANT to know. I think it's basically criminal, and should be abolished.
Re: (Score:2)
"For tipped positions in the US, the law and practice has almost exclusively been that tips make up a large fraction of the minimum wage."
That is completely, totally, utterly, and in all other ways irrelevant to the point being made.
Employees paid a tipped wage still get their tips IN ADDITION TO their hourly wage.
When a customer gives a tip, their expectation is that it is IN ADDITION TO their wages.
This is not complicated. You are being disingenuous.
Re: (Score:2)
I will instead give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are simply ignorant.
The point is that most people are ignorant. Also, in the two most populous states, it doesn't work that way. In one of them, even tipped employees get a decent wage; in the other, tipped employees just have a super shitty minimum wage.
These probably aren't employees (Score:2)
None of those rules apply because we all looked the other way while companies tore down decades of minimum wage law because "Hey, it's an App!".
Remember kiddies, it's not a law if it's not enforced.
Re: (Score:2)
some states have adopted different rules
To be clear, it is a very mixed picture today. Using "Tipped Minimum Wage Laws by State 2019" [minimum-wage.org] as my source, I count 12 states with an estimated 2019 population of 99,439,783 that either do not allow the tips to contribute to the base minimum wage or have an employer cash contribution requirement that is greater than the $7.25 federal minimum wage but still allow tips to be utilized in meeting a much higher state minimum wage. There are only 16 states with a total population of 106,865,427 following the fede
Offtopic (Score:3, Insightful)
I come to Slashdot to read tech articles. Not articles about tipping and employee treatment.
It would be awesome if there was a way to down-moderate entire articles to give the editors more direct feedback.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Or just tip them like the cows they are. I remember when they used to be cowboys.
Re: (Score:2)
I come to Slashdot because someone said there would be cake.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, by posting here you have let the editors know that this type of article is of interest to you.
We're so sorry.. (Score:5, Insightful)
No that isn't the expectation (Score:2)
"i.e., the almost universally understood intent of how tips should work in the first place, where they're a bonus for a specific person on top of their base pay from the company for which they work"
The expectation is that someone who derives more than a certain percentage of their compensation via tips is paid a lower base wage. Those who give poor service can't afford the career which hopefully results in the rest being happy service people giving high quality service.
That said, the concept of tipping for
They'll have help on this policy change (Score:2)
DoorDash will be providing advice on how to implement it.
servers are next (Score:2)
soon you will see servers pushing to stop the restaurants from using tips to cover the federal minimum wage required by law. right now tip wages and tips must equal federal or state minimum wage, whichever is higher. If it doesn't, the restaurants must make up the difference. IMO, this needs to change too,
I sense weasles (Score:2)
Amazon will always contribute at least $15 per scheduled hour to driver pay
"Contribute"? Why not just "... will always pay at least ..."?
"When checking out my groceries, I always contribute the requested amount to store revenue."
Am I losing some nuance in translation here?