Makers of Plant-Based Meat Alternatives Respond To Criticism of Healthfulness (bloomberg.com) 129
Last week NBC News ran an opinion piece by a certified nutritionist arguing that plant-based/meat-free alternatives at major fast food chains "aren't actually any healthier."
Bloomberg got a response from two of the major meat-substitute companies: According to Impossible, the attacks are all part of a "smear campaign to sow fear and doubt about plant-based meat." The company said its burgers and other offerings are better for people than animal products, delivering as much protein and bioavailable iron as beef without the associated downsides. And "processed" criticism doesn't fly, it said in a statement, given that all food involves some kind of processing. Beyond makes similar claims about its foods. "We know that consumers are increasingly pulling away from red and processed meat because of the levels of cholesterol and associated health baggage," said Will Schafer, vice president of marketing. The company also touts what it calls a simple production process that's more humane and sustainable than livestock production.
There's a lot of competition out there and on its way for Beyond and Impossible, including from Kellogg Co. and Tyson Foods Inc., which sold its stake in Beyond before that company went public. The Native Foods vegan chain and Ted's Montana Grill, co-founded by Ted Turner, are making their own veggie burgers, emphasizing what they call "whole" ingredients. "It just seems to go against the grain to me if you want to eat healthier that you would choose manufactured, chemically-produced products," said George McKerrow, Ted's chief executive officer and co-founder... Gene Grabowski, a partner at the communications firm kglobal, predicted a long fight between the real-meat and fake-meat forces. Much is at stake. A Barclays reports estimates the plant-based sector could reach $140 billion in sales globally in the next decade.
The director of nutrition at the nonprofit consumer advocacy group the Center for Science in the Public Interest, told Bloomberg that it's not any healthier to order an Impossible or Beyond burger when eating out.
"The bottom line is that all burgers at restaurants are too high in calories, saturated fat, and sodium, whether beef or plant-based..."
Bloomberg got a response from two of the major meat-substitute companies: According to Impossible, the attacks are all part of a "smear campaign to sow fear and doubt about plant-based meat." The company said its burgers and other offerings are better for people than animal products, delivering as much protein and bioavailable iron as beef without the associated downsides. And "processed" criticism doesn't fly, it said in a statement, given that all food involves some kind of processing. Beyond makes similar claims about its foods. "We know that consumers are increasingly pulling away from red and processed meat because of the levels of cholesterol and associated health baggage," said Will Schafer, vice president of marketing. The company also touts what it calls a simple production process that's more humane and sustainable than livestock production.
There's a lot of competition out there and on its way for Beyond and Impossible, including from Kellogg Co. and Tyson Foods Inc., which sold its stake in Beyond before that company went public. The Native Foods vegan chain and Ted's Montana Grill, co-founded by Ted Turner, are making their own veggie burgers, emphasizing what they call "whole" ingredients. "It just seems to go against the grain to me if you want to eat healthier that you would choose manufactured, chemically-produced products," said George McKerrow, Ted's chief executive officer and co-founder... Gene Grabowski, a partner at the communications firm kglobal, predicted a long fight between the real-meat and fake-meat forces. Much is at stake. A Barclays reports estimates the plant-based sector could reach $140 billion in sales globally in the next decade.
The director of nutrition at the nonprofit consumer advocacy group the Center for Science in the Public Interest, told Bloomberg that it's not any healthier to order an Impossible or Beyond burger when eating out.
"The bottom line is that all burgers at restaurants are too high in calories, saturated fat, and sodium, whether beef or plant-based..."
Biting off more than they can chew (Score:5, Insightful)
Good luck with that. Personally I think demanding that meat alternatives fix all its downsides all at once is not realistic.
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My understanding is that processed meat is terrible for you because it involves heating nitrates and protein together. If this is the case, these veggie burgers are likely far worse than walmart hot dogs for your health.
https://www.healthline.com/nut... [healthline.com]
"processed meat" != meat (Score:4)
Let's not try to conflate a heathy piece of meat like a steak or salmon fllet or ground beef with processed meat like salted lunch meat or spam or hot dogs. No argument that high processing is bad for you, but many meats are not processed in the sense of chemical modification and manipulation.
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What is "high" processing, exactly?
All of the food you eat is processed, except maybe whole fresh fruits and vegetables. Some kinds of processing actually enhance healthfulness of foods, such as steaming or boiling of vegetables.
So vendors with something to sell try to distinguish between "light" and "high" processing, and they name examples, but they can't really define what those terms mean, or how to apply them beyond the few examples they list.
Is processing good or bad for you? It all depends, and it's
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Interesting factoid only 5% of nitrates in the average European diet comes from processed meat, 80% come from vegetables. Oh dear, or dear, dear bad news for vegetarians and vegans then.
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It wasn't, but the established players will be busy paying for news stories to diss new products that might take away their profits.
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So it has to be meat-free, AND it has to taste just like meat, AND is has to have no additives, AND it has to be as healthy as eating vegetables. (Oh, and make it cheaper than meat!)
Good luck with that. Personally I think demanding that meat alternatives fix all its downsides all at once is not realistic.
Personally I have no interest in ending my life long habit of being an omnivore.but I do think that if people want to go vegetarian or vegan they should go all the way right off the bat. They might want to ease into it during the transition because you can start feeling quite nauseous and uncomfortable if you transition abruptly from being an omnivore to being a strict vegan but the eventual goal has to be to quit meat (and animal products if you go vegan) as cold turkey as possible and not piss about with
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Personally I have no interest in ending my life long habit of being an omnivore...
And nobody is asking you to either.
So what was your point?
Plants have cell walls (Score:2)
The difference between animal cells and plant cells is the (indigestible) cell walls. So either you have to process these to oblivion or have something that is planty not meaty. Arguing that all food is processed is minimizing the the degree of processing. This makes one want to pull the thread on this bogus(?) claim that it's not highly processed food. Where did the indigestible cellulose go?
Vegetables pretending to be meat (Score:5, Insightful)
makes no sense to me. Why not just enjoy them for what they are? There are tons of good vegetable dishes out there without any need to try and pass them off as anything else.
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You're quite correct. You are also so wrong I think you should get your head examined.
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You are also so wrong I think you should get your head examined.
Explain?
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When it comes down to it plant based meat *is* just another veggie recipe and if some people enjoy that, why not? The joy of food is in all the variety.
Also the marketing material is not pretending it's meat, it's the entire selling point that it's veggies that can pass for being meat (well, almost). If that can get the wider population at least partly shifted towards food with less environmental impact that's a win.
Re: Vegetables pretending to be meat (Score:1)
the marketing material is not pretending it's meat, it's the entire selling point that it's veggies that can pass for being meat
You're contradicting yourself. The entire point of this is to pretend it's meat, they're stocking it in the Meat section, and doing "blind taste tests" against actual meat.
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They're also claiming it's healthy and it's not, Beyond Beef has something like 4x the sodium, 20% more saturated fats and at least as much calories. It's also not using table salt for its sodium, it's using massive amounts of potassium chloride (which has unhappy side effects on your gastrointestinal system) and methylcellulose as glue (a laxative).
Additionally, it's much more energy intensive to produce a beyond meat burger vs a locally sourced beef source, about 3x as much energy (based on the cost), if
Re:Vegetables pretending to be meat (Score:5, Informative)
They're also claiming it's healthy and it's not, Beyond Beef has something like 4x the sodium, 20% more saturated fats and at least as much calories. It's also not using table salt for its sodium, it's using massive amounts of potassium chloride
First off, you are going to need to explain how this food gets it's Sodium content from Potassium. Is this like alchemic transmutation or something? Sodium is an element, Potassium is an element, and the twain are not the same.
As to your claim that Potassium Chloride is some sort of stomach irritant, well, it's part of some life critical electrolytes. Your heart health depends on it. Use your powers of Google-fu to check it out. As well, I take potassium Chloride every day for leg cramps.
Anyhow, my wife and I enjoy Veggie burgers pretty often. A nice Veggie burger topped with Cheese, and several slices of my home made bacon rounds it out. Yummy!
Eat what ya like in moderation, folks. None of us get out of this place alive. Although a vegan diet might make it seem like forever.
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Meat doesn't have to be bad for the environment.
Being bad is unavoidable at the levels people are demanding.
I personally know people who raise chickens in their own backyard.
And how many that have cows...? Cows are the problem, not the chickens. And pigs.
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Cows aren't even remotely a problem. Some *methods* of cattle husbandry are, but that doesn't mean all cattle are raised in feed lots, on harvested grain....
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Uh, no.
You're confused. You're taking a worst case scenario (feeding methods that require fertilizer, and water), with those that do not. A *lot* of meat is produced without fertilizer, or water added. Free range cattle, for example, or New Zealand grass fed sheep. Further, the whole farting thing is nonsense, cattle have simply displaced bison and buffalo, herds of them so thick they were miles and miles in size.
Meat production is quite environmentally friendly. Ever try to grow a crop of potatoes? A
permaculture (Score:2)
Meat production is quite environmentally friendly.
Exactly like you said, it depends on the production method. A bunch of animal happily roaming around and grazing on the grass that was already there to begin with isn't indeed the same as a giant indoor agro-industrial complex of sickly animals locked into overcrowded cages.
I agree...
Ever try to grow a crop of potatoes? All the pesticides you need, and water, and as you say, fertilizer?
and again it depends on the method. Industrial farming is going to be much awful than the above source of meat.
On the other hand a small self-sustained farm following permaculture techniques is going to have a much lower impact
Re: Vegetables pretending to be meat (Score:2)
Actually it isn't. Due to the amount of certain plant based material, in high concentrations, they actually had to ask for approval from the FDA. Side effects are a possibility.
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If that can get the wider population at least partly shifted towards food with less environmental impact that's a win.
The vegans/vegetarians have latched onto environmentalism as a means to push their agenda. XKCD has this neat not-so-little graph of the Earth's climate history [xkcd.com], and it turns out domesticated cattle have been belching and farting since 8500 BC. Notice shit doesn't start hitting the proverbial fan until humanity starts burning fossil fuels with reckless abandon.
Yes, some farming practices are more harmful to the environment than others, but that applies equally to livestock and growing crops.
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If that can get the wider population at least partly shifted towards food with less environmental impact that's a win.
The vegans/vegetarians have latched onto environmentalism as a means to push their agenda.
I agree - although I'd note most Vegetarians I've known have been reasonable. Vegans on the other hand are about half a dB shy of full gain.
But to your point, Especially the vegans have latched on to the idea that what people eat is a moral choice, that eating "corpse meat" is a superior choice. Which is insane. That insinuates that anything that is a predator species is evil.
There is prey, and there is predator. Humans are a predator species, and the Vegans are attempting to turn us int a prey species.
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Indeed, not to mention that we've *removed* so many bison, buffalo, moose, deer and so on from North America, that we actually have *fewer* ruminants than before!
Hell, ever hear of the passenger pigeon? Yup, gone now... and in its place we raise loads of chicken. Passenger pigeons used to *darken the sky* for *hours* as they flew overhead. Environmental extremists are crazy. First they tell us that we've driven countless species to extinction, that there are all these missing birds, that we've removed c
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Vegetables pretending to be meat makes no sense to me. Why not just enjoy them for what they are?
Simple: people want to enjoy the taste of meat but not have all the baggage that comes with it. It's not like anyone is taking away vegetables.
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makes no sense to me. Why not just enjoy them for what they are? There are tons of good vegetable dishes out there without any need to try and pass them off as anything else.
Dubious.
But even if we allowed that assertion as a given, said (alleged) good vegetable dishes are part of what an omnivorous creature such as a human being seeks to eat to be satisfied. Vegetables masquerading as food (ie. meat) are intended to fool the part of the brain capable of thought into believing it occupies a body that ate something worth eating.
Re:Vegetables pretending to be meat (Score:4, Insightful)
makes no sense to me. Why not just enjoy them for what they are? There are tons of good vegetable dishes out there without any need to try and pass them off as anything else.
Dubious.
But even if we allowed that assertion as a given, said (alleged) good vegetable dishes are part of what an omnivorous creature such as a human being seeks to eat to be satisfied. Vegetables masquerading as food (ie. meat) are intended to fool the part of the brain capable of thought into believing it occupies a body that ate something worth eating.
The best veggie burgers I have eaten - bespoke house made patties at vegan restaurants - don't taste anything like beef, but are quite delicious in their own right. Granted there are some awful mass produced veggie patties out there as well, which is probably what turns so many people off the whole concept, but the idea a "good" veggie burger tastes like a beef burger seems counterproductive. If you want a really good veggie burger, Beyond and Impossible are not it. They fail both at being as good as beef, or as good as a veggie burger can be.
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The best veggie burgers I have eaten - bespoke house made patties at vegan restaurants - don't taste anything like beef, but are quite delicious in their own right.
Indeed. I've got a smoker and it's not uncommon to find a brisket or a pork shoulder in it on the weekend. But every month or two I swing by a local pub to get their chipotle black bean burger. Granted, I usually put bacon and cheddar on it, but god damn is that a good sandwich. Not trying to be meat at all. Onion, garlic, black beans, I think mushrooms...then they give it a good hard sear so there's a crunch on the outside, brioche bun with chipotle mayo, shredded iceberg, pico.....that thing is delicious.
Vegetables dishes (Score:2)
There are tons of good vegetable dishes out there without any need to try and pass them off as anything else.
Dubious.
Falafel, Hummus, Aubergine caviar, etc.
All very tasty. Don't try to pretend to be meat.
You know, not every single vegetable out there is that side dish of broccoli (that you hate) next to your steak.
And I say that as somebody who also enjoys eating real meat, every now an then. It's just that given the choice between eating "vegetables in the shape of meat" and "eating a traditional dish that was always been made out of vegetables" I'll always go for the latter, because in my experience it tastes better.
But even if we allowed that assertion as a given, said (alleged) good vegetable dishes are part of what an omnivorous creature such as a human being seeks to eat to be satisfied.
So
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Unless i get concentrated protein I feel tired, tend to eat more calories, and have trouble actually building muscle.
Myself as well. Desopite the vegans insisting that they get complete protein and are healthier than us corpse eaters, not everyone is cut out for it. Some people even go insane on a vegan diet. https://www.psychologytoday.co... [psychologytoday.com]. I can't find an internet reference, but Mark Vonnegut (son of Kurt) went psychotic in part because of his diet.
I tried vegetarianism years ago, and even though I followed a "healthy" regimen, I wrecked my metabolism. Bloating, gassy, and having to take like 6 small bowel movement
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Because their entire market niche is based upon the premise that they're an effective substitute for meat and can replace burgers and the like... they're not marketing themselves as another food product, they're marketing themselves as the replacement. Ipso facto, they're going to be compared to and judged upon that claim.
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Re: Vegetables pretending to be meat (Score:2)
Because chopped celery and carrots don't really pull a sandwich together, so why not make a patty instead.
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On the other side of things, I'm kind of intrigued by meat products that imitate plants. Arby's ran a spoof ad for "marrots"--"carrots" made of meat. I'd actually be interested in trying one. In real life, there are Dietz Nuts--meat-based nut-like snacks.
Plant based, eh... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll wait for real cultured meat. Then we can argue about something else more important, like baseball
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And yet you felt compelled to comment on something less important than baseball.
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Yes, isn't it wonderful?
The Cards could win it. Anything can happen.
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So do you think the Dodgers should move back to Brooklyn?
Red flag (Score:4, Informative)
Whenever someone writes something that says or implies or assumes that "saturated fat" is bad for you then I can pretty much guarantee they don't know what they are talking about. The same goes for high cholesterol although i didn't see it here.
Just sayin.
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I get a request for a "clinical source" which provides a link to wikipedia. Sorry but I don't think you will benefit from any work I can put into this. If you were really interested in the subject beyond just following authority you would have easily found not one buy many sources of information that shows why accepted authority is wrong.
There are a few good lay-reading sources around. Chris Masterjohn is one of the best. This article [westonaprice.org] is a few years old but still a good overview. And if you want "cl
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I get a request for a "clinical source" which provides a link to wikipedia.
And then you post a link to a guy who's been in the field less than a decade, who left academia and apparently doesn't do any peer reviewed research? Holy crap dude.
If you were really interested in the subject beyond just following authority....
AKA if you're interested in conspiracy theories and quackery.....
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Re:Red flag (Score:5, Informative)
I get a request for a "clinical source" which provides a link to wikipedia.
You're missing the point. On the section I liked to, those numbers inside the brackets point to health guidelines and systematic reviews -- the creme de la creme of scientific evidence. Those are what I'm referring to.
Sorry but I don't think you will benefit from any work I can put into this. If you were really interested in the subject beyond just following authority you would have easily found not one buy many sources of information that shows why accepted authority is wrong.
There are a few good lay-reading sources around. Chris Masterjohn is one of the best. This article [westonaprice.org] is a few years old but still a good overview. And if you want "clinical sources" then the references are worth looking into.
I think you've been tricked. The Weston A. Price Foundation is a mishmash of pseudoscientific beliefs [quackwatch.org], where its authors, fully engaged in confirmation bias, set out to evangelize about the crank teachings [sciencebasedmedicine.org] of its old-timey dentist founder. Also note that the article you linked to references a bunch of single small and weak studies [wikipedia.org] -- I didn't see a single meta-analysis or systematic review, which are pretty vital if you're trying to construct a guideline. Chris Masterjohn is also plugging his own nutritional products [myshopify.com] and $1500 consultations [chrismasterjohnphd.com], making him incredibly biased.
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Whenever someone writes something that says or implies or assumes that "saturated fat" is bad for you then I can pretty much guarantee they don't know what they are talking about. ...you would have easily found not one but many sources of information that shows why accepted authority is wrong.
Do I understand you right, that you can pretty much guarantee that accepted authority doesn't know what they're talking about? (I'm combining your posts in what I think is the manner you intended, but I'm not sure I got it right). It makes me wonder what your definition of "accepted authority" is, and whether you can make this guarantee in many other areas beyond just saturated fat.
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To be fair, there isn't much evidence that saturated fats are bad for you, per se. Much of the older evidence didn't properly distinguish between saturated fats and trans-fats, and there are several levels of saturation (hence, e.g., the term mono-saturated, poly-unsaturated, etc.)
OTOH, I'm not aware of any evidence that claims saturated fats are good for you.
P.S.: When calculating whether it's the fats or not, remember that heme- molecules themselves are probably not good for you unless you are low on i
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"A 2017 systematic review by the American Heart Association of randomized controlled clinical trials showed that reducing intake of dietary saturated fat and replacing it with monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats could reduce cardiovascular disease by about 30%, similar to the reduction achieved by statin treatment for maintaining blood cholesterol within normal limits.[6]"
So they are talking about relative risk if they compare it to statins.
And the AHA are the same peopl
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We know more about cardiovascular health now than in the '60s. Science is a self-correcting process, and the current scientific consensus on trans-fats, saturated fats and certain types of cholesterol are that they should be kept to a minimum.
I'm not very familiar with the American Heart Association, but they at least have a transparent guide [heart.org] for why e.g. Cocoa Puffs could get the certification -- low levels of sodium, cholesterol, trans-fats, saturated fats, etc. The sugars are likely to have other ill hea
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Look up Ancel Keys, one of history's greatest villains. He basically made up the whole story that saturated fat is bad for you, published papers in made up journals and did a bunch of bad science to "prove" his point, and started this whole myth that broadly speaking, saturated fat is bad for you.
Science is not a personality cult. What someone did decades ago does not necessarily have any bearing on the current consensus.
There is now an enormous amount of debate on the role of saturated fat in diets and what it means to one's health, but it should no longer be taken for granted that it is bad for you in the amounts you are likely to be consuming.
Just like the "enormous amount of debate" on whether there's climate change or if vaccines cause autism? You can't just assert something so controversial without a decent reference. What does WHO say? What about regulatory agencies? Systematic reviews?
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They absolutely are, once they become cheaper than ground beef. And that will happen sooner rather than later.
Nobody goes to a fast food chain looking for a gourmet burger. They go to fill their cravings and to get full as fast as they can for a reasonable price.
Fake meats can scale in a way that real meat can't. They can remain fresh longer, they transport better, they're even easier to cook in volume because they produce less grease that has to be dealt with.
People making decent money are likely to contin
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Until about 2 years ago I lived on an 80% meat diet. I'm still probably 60%. Tried the Impossible Whopper and it was actually pretty good. If they tweaked the macros just a bit and eeked out a higher protein ratio where is was even a little better than the beef version I'd have no problem getting that instead of a Whopper.
It tastes 90% the same to me, I wouldn't be opposed. Oddly a pseudo-vegetarian I know did not like it because it tasted like meat and she prefers the normal veggie burger. Personally I alw
If you like salt (Score:1)
Then Beyond Burger patty is what you need 570mg of salt per serving versus a real burger patty having 380mg.
Sounds like a prescription for high BP to me.
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Oops my bad, I pulled the wrong sodium # off the website.
Impossible 570mg, Beyond Burger 380mg. Real beef, 74mg.
Same conclusion.
Re:If you like salt (Score:5, Informative)
That said, as with anything, moderation is probably warranted, but looking at every mg is probably more effort than it's worth.
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Fine, feel free to eat all the salt you like.
Myself I am an adherent to a Paleo Diet. I don't know any critters that are that salty. I suppose a sea creature I'm not aware of might be....
Have a great day
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All critters are salty, as we've all got salt in us. ISTR that red meat is the saltiest. However, more salt makes it taste even better. I can't remember the last time I cooked meat without putting any salt on it.
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I hate the effort it takes to brine chicken, but god damn does it make a world of difference. I kept hearing about it and I figured it would make some slight difference. I had the occasion to smoke two whole chickens, so I brined one of the two. Dried them both, dry rubbed, and smoked.
The difference was remarkable. The one I brined was twice as juicy and just tasted soooo much better. With later experimentation, even a couple of hours makes a difference. To me, about 12 hrs is ideal, and anything over 1 hr
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A Paleo Diet. The diet that keeps you as healthy as a stone age human.
Say, how old did they get on average?
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A Paleo Diet. The diet that keeps you as healthy as a stone age human.
Say, how old did they get on average?
Otzi was about 45 when he was murdered. Studies[1] seem to show that paleolithic man frequently lived to fifty and beyond.. Some Roman tombstones in Britain give ages of 100 or more at death, which is not paleolithic, but as far as diet goes, I bet it's not very different.
AFAIK diets like paleo, atkins, south beach, etc., are about controlling weight, not about achieving "good" health in general. No diet is going to save you, e.g., from cancer.
We also have a few things that paleo man didn't have: med
Who really thought it's healthier? (Score:2)
I've seen this all over the pl
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I think the non-meat spokesperson was missing the point. The nutritionist didn’t say that plant-based meat alternatives are less healthy or not healthy. The actual statement was that it wasn’t much healthier than meat at fast food places considering the amount of salt, fat, additives, etc that fast food has.
I don't understand (Score:1)
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It's simple really: 'artificial' food is almost exclusively designed to make you eat more of it and damn the consequences. In this case, it's an 'artificial' food that is a mitigation of the consequences of the original. If you still don't understand then you likely do not wish to understand.
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The problem is that there's no functional definition for "artificial", so your statement is meaningless.
Is tofu artificial? How about instant oatmeal? Orange juice? Tea? If I grind my own pork, season it, stuff it in an intestine, dry it, and then cook it, is that artificial? I mean, people have been doing that for a thousand years. Where does the artificial line get drawn between that and a Kraft hot dog?
Tofu is a great example. So you grow soybeans. Pick them. Soak them in water for day, drain, grind, coo
Much better for you but indirectly. (Score:4, Insightful)
Climate change is a serious health hazard and the use of livestock is far from insignificant in that regard. Cattle specifically emits significant amounts of methane but it's more than just that because there is an entire cycle in which they are involved. [oup.com] In addition to that, cattle is heavily subsidized [grist.org] indirectly which means the plant burger is really FAR cheaper.
The truth is that the entire cattle industry is terrified that they are soon to be displaced and doing everything in their power to stop the wheels of progress from crushing them.
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I didn't know the meat industry was subsidized for 75% of the total industry. Please cite some (credible) sources.
Questioning chemically extracted proteins is good! (Score:2)
The question is: Is this comparable to how soy proteins are extracted or do they go further?
As one who has never liked tofu much mostly because of the bland and artificial taste, the amount of processing needed for peas to become fake meat puts me off.
If you are what you eat... (Score:1)
I'ts a different market (Score:2)
I don't see these products as necessarily targeting the same market. We've had veggie burgers for ages. They're fine for what they are, but you'd never mistake them for beef. They're popular among vegetarians and health conscious people. But a lot of people prefer the taste of meat and don't care much whether it's healthy.
Impossible burger is targeting those people. It's for people who want a burger that tastes like meat, but is better for the environment. If it happens to be healthier that's a bonus,
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They *may* be popular among "health conscious people", but I suspect that those "health conscious people" are deceived. That much salt can't be good for you. And it's also not clear to me that the balance of amino acids is as good as with, e.g., eggs. (And I'm not going to take the maufacturer's word. This needs independent validation.)
P.S.: Given the recent level of government oversight exhibited in the Boeing case I don't think I'd trust the FDA's evaluation either.
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I think they're trying to win fast food chains away from meat more than anything else. Their relentless focus on efficiency and cost cutting is absolutely perfectly tailored to factory made meat replacements.
Beef (Score:2)
Alternatives That Are Almost Exactly Like Meat (Score:2)
Are also - surprise, surprise - no better for you than meat.
This product seeks to imitate beef as closely as possible, to make it indistinguishable if it can, which requires - as we see - having almost all of the same (un)healthy properties of processed beef products -- high calories, high saturated fat, high salt, high nitrites. No cholesterol, so there is that.
Being made from plants, without the low energy conversion rate of cattle, it will have a smaller environmental footprint. And if your dietary prefe
What next, Soylent Beef ? (Score:2)
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But what do religious leaders say? (Score:2)
I've always wondered this question. And haven't found a good bipartisan dialog on the subject.
If your religion says you don't eat beef or pork, then would a substitute like this be an acceptable replacement? If so, this would open up huge markets especially in countries other than the U.S.. What would the marketshare of McDonald's be in India if they started selling meatless burgers?
Also, look at lab grown meat. This wouldn't be hurting the animal at all, so would this be an acceptable replacement as well?
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I've always wondered this question. And haven't found a good bipartisan dialog on the subject.
If your religion says you don't eat beef or pork, then would a substitute like this be an acceptable replacement? If so, this would open up huge markets especially in countries other than the U.S.. What would the marketshare of McDonald's be in India if they started selling meatless burgers?
Also, look at lab grown meat. This wouldn't be hurting the animal at all, so would this be an acceptable replacement as well? (BTW, I thought about this issue for awhile. And laughed when an episode of the television series 'Castle' dealt with hit.)
These products could very well be an interesting marketing trend. I mean, come on. Most people who buy a burger at a fast food restaurant add so much other stuff to it that actually tasting the meat is secondary.
Wait until some 3-5 Star restaurant makes some award winning recipe and suddenly the stigma will go away.
Lab grown meat would be ambiguous but plant based meat substitutes.. no way anyone's barring that.
Healthfulness for whom? (Score:2)
If we're talking about the 'healthfulness' of any given individual, from a purely dietary perspective, then I can see that there might be some health advantage to either real meat or fake meat. But if we're talking about collective healthfulness, (i.e. the healthfulness of the planet and everyone on it), then I suspect fake meat is the clear winner. Producing 'natural' meat takes a tremendous toll on the environment and is a major cause of global warming. In the long run, I think this is a more important fa
Who cares? "Health" doesn't matter (Score:2)
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They don't need to be healthier if they have a smaller environmental impact. People avoid meat for many reasons, ethical, fiscal, environmental. Health is just one of many reasons. it's still not animal products and that matters to some people. Meatless pork will be VERY attractive to the Muslim population for instance.
Fake "bacon bits" have been around for ages and I don't see any big uptake among my Muslim or Jewish friends.
Too late (Score:2)
Once that crowd starts with the 'highly processed' claims you don't come back from that. It doesn't matter that all foods undergo a process of some kind, they want something to hate and fear and they will find it.
They need better sources (Score:2)
Someone else already pointed out that "the AHA are the same people who were telling people to switch to margarine and trans-fats in the 60s, to limit cholesterol in foods then backed off recently without admitting they were wrong for 50 years". You can add the Center for Science in the Public Interest to that history.
CSPI is the organization that got all the fast food places to replace the beef tallow they were cooking their fries in with fully hydrogenated vegetable oil, despite a complete lack of scientif
Why all the Fake Meat products? (Score:2)
Ie they want to have NO MEAT (avoiding guilt over killing animals, avoiding guilt over killing the environment) but want to STILL ENJOY EATING "meat".
Did nobody ever tell them TANSTAAFL?
Did nobody every explain to them what SACRIFICE means? (ie if you want to SAVE THE ANIMALS/PLANET then you'll need to make some SACRIFICES)
But noooooo, they want to FEEL HOLIER THAN THOU..... AND they want to still enjoy all the pleasures of "eating meat".
stupid (Score:2)
i never understood why alternatives to meat need to taste like meat.
they are their own things, much like fish is sometimes a replacement for meat.
but nobody complains fish doesn't taste like meat.
there are people who don't like the taste of fish and as a result, they don't eat fish! (and the oposite is also true).
just take it for what they are, vegatable replacements for meat, with their own taste, different from meat.
there are so many choices and some are bad, some or good and some are even really excellen
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take them out of the meat products isles in the supermarkets.
That's a decision for supermarkets to make, free-market and all.
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Sorry, but they need the refrigeration just as the meat does, so that's the logical place to put them, until there are so many sold that they deserve their own section.
Why such a cynical asshole? (Score:3)
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Because they can't leave me be when I'm eating.
Yes, I know that a pound of meat needs the resources that 10 pounds of vegetables need. Yes, I know that this cow was raised in a barn with no light, wedged between hundreds of others and standing in its own filth until it was cattle-prodded to a transporter, driven around for thousands of miles without food or water, then cattle prodded back out into a narrow corridor where it gets stressed beyond belief while being prodded again and again to go towards the gu
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"Why are you so upset that some people want to do something to lessen their impact on the planet?"
Suicide and homicide also lessen people's impact on the planet... should we not be upset by that either? Operating under the presumption that this vague concept of lessening the impact to the planet is all that's required to validate something is one of the big issues with the climate change religion... first off, we don't know definitively that it does substantially lessen the impact to the planet because no o
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Why are you so upset that some people want to do something to lessen their impact on the planet?
Two points:
I have a problem with doing something to lessen the environmental impact on the planet when the proposed solution is of negligible benefit, or actually makes things worse. Daylight saving time is a great example. Also low-flush toilets which require at least 2 flushes to totally clear the bowl of TP. Those "ventless" gas cans which cause you to spill gasoline all over the place when attempting to fill something. etc.
I also have a problem with doing something to lessen the environmental impact
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No. Sorry, we outnumber you. Just like the rat-fucks who want to take away guns will probably soon outnumber me, people who give a shit about not breathing in poison (forget CO2, if you're a verminous climate denier just think about the shit you're breathing in that's giving you cancer and depleting your lung capacity) or completely wrecking entire ecosystems with plastics and poison will start outnumbering the "I'm a rugged individualist fuck the environment" crowd.
I'm 100% a meat eater but it's going to r
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Well, one reason would be that there's no evidence that this "lessens their impact on the planet". And I don't trust manufacturers claims about the virtues of their product, I want validated independent reviews. They've got reviews that say that at least some people like the taste just, or nearly, as much. Reviews that they are healthier or have less ecological impact, however, seem to be lacking. (True, those are harder to get and substantiate, but believing a PR flack instead isn't insightful.)
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What do you have to be such a cynical asshole? Why are you so upset that some people want to do something to lessen their impact on the planet?
I don't think we want to go there. We are already at unsustainable levels of humanity, and if people think they are helping the planet this way, at best, they are simply allowing more but less well nourished people to continue to delay the inevitible, and more likely making for an even worse outcome.
There ya go - not cynical, but an opinion that is likely to be quite accurate.