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The Almighty Buck Twitter United States

Jack Dorsey Donates $3 Million To US Mayors For Universal Basic Income Pilot Programs In 15 Cities (forbes.com) 216

Jack Dorsey, the billionaire CEO of Twitter and Square, is donating $3 million to help fund Mayors for a Guaranteed Income (MGI), a new coalition of 15 mayors across the country who want to explore the idea of universal basic income -- a recurring payment to residents -- in their cities. Forbes reports: The coalition was created on June 29 by Michael Tubbs, the 29 year-old mayor of Stockton, California, who has been running a guaranteed income pilot program in his city since the winter of 2018. The majority of the gift will help the mayors create pilot programs for universal basic income (UBI) in their cities, which include Newark, Atlanta, Seattle, Los Angeles, Compton, Long Beach, Pittsburgh, Oakland and more. The rest of the money will go to a new pilot program in Stockton, which Tubbs will announce in the fall.

For now, the roster of mayors in MGI are moderate to liberal-leaning, but that will soon change. Dorsey is making the donation from #startsmall, his philanthropic limited liability company, which he launched on April 7 by transferring $1 billion worth of Square shares -- then 28% of his net worth -- to the LLC. Dorsey said he would primarily focus his charitable efforts on Covid-19 relief, and also fund efforts to improve girl's health and education, as well as UBI experimentation. Tubbs hopes that with more successful experiments of guaranteed income around the country, the federal government will follow with a national guaranteed income program that will extend beyond the pandemic.

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Jack Dorsey Donates $3 Million To US Mayors For Universal Basic Income Pilot Programs In 15 Cities

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  • In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by x0ra ( 1249540 ) on Friday July 10, 2020 @02:10AM (#60282106)
    Jack Dorsey drops a glass of water in the Aral Sea trying to fill it up...
  • Here is your guaranteed income penny. Now shut up and go away.

    {O,o} Just how stupid does this critter think our people are?

    • Depends. Are we talking about a penny per day or a penny per second? I don't know about you, but I'd gladly take 315K dollars per year, forever.

  • by Kokuyo ( 549451 ) on Friday July 10, 2020 @02:48AM (#60282138) Journal

    3 Million for a Billionaire...

    Yeah, he must really have confidence in the project...

    As someone who has been getting rather conservative from being pretty liberal at some point what fascinates me about the UBI is that for once it isn't just "throw money at the problem" although I have no doubt that if we let politicians at this, it will end up like that anyhow.

    It is imperative that people feel they are contributing to society. Welfare states usually produce very unhappy and often useless people. With the UBI, the original intention is that you don't have to be afraid for your existence, nothing more, nothing less.

    The idea seems to strike a balance and THAT is something I can get behind.

    The major issue to me is that I've been following the idea for a decade and I keep hearing "Oh, the money is no problem. There are professors of economy who have calculated the whole thing" but when I ask to see the calculation, it's alwys behind some kind of hurdle to get at. My prefered one is "Just google it, man!" which obviously leads to nothing.

    The most dickish one was by a German professor I wrote to via email whose lectures consist of a lot of "We absolutely need this or else mankind is doomed, DOOMED I TELL YOU!" who told me to go buy his book.
    Yeah.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      To be fair you don't start by just throwing billions at some brand new, untested project. You give them enough money to get started and if it seems to be working and non-fraudulent you can follow it up with more.

      That's how it works in business, unless you have a proven track record you don't get billions in your first round of funding.

    • It is imperative that people feel they are contributing to society.

      This. People need to feel some purpose in their lives. Whether this is a career, volunteer work, family, religion, whatever - it varies from person to person. Excepting a few mentally ill individuals, there is something wired into our brains that needs us to have some purpose, some role to fill.

      I remember an interview where some politician from Africa was touring British social housing. The British politicians thought he would be impressed.

      • US inner-city blacks were arguably better off before they were "helped" by the Great Society programs of the 1960s.

        What's the argument to make for that? The arguments I've heard about a lost black Renaissance point to communities like the Gullah that were decidedly rural. I've heard of the Greenwood "black Wall Street" in Tulsa, but white people burned it to the ground in 1921.

        The problem of motivation and purpose could be an issue for people on UBI. But never would I call it the "fundamental problem". Not that I think Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs [wikipedia.org] is an infallible and totally linear journey - but there's a rough accuracy

    • Tend to agree, people need purpose. I'd propose instead of UBI we go back to funding people who cannot afford college to go if they want with the caveat, B or better or no more funding. What is the old proverb, Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime. UBI is giving the man a fish.
      • What is the old proverb, Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

        I prefer the Terry Pratchett version: "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."

    • It is imperative that people feel they are contributing to society.

      You mean you feel it's an imperative that people contribute to society. Otherwise you will be against them getting money "for free" for "doing nothing".

      The major issue to me is that I've been following the idea for a decade and I keep hearing "Oh, the money is no problem. There are professors of economy who have calculated the whole thing" but when I ask to see the calculation, it's alwys behind some kind of hurdle to get at. My prefered one is "Just google it, man!" which obviously leads to nothing.

      If they can print trillions for war for oil, they can print trillions for basic human life.

      • "Math is hard! Let's do UBI!" --drinkypoo who doesn't understand inflation, basic human psychology, or how wars are different from paying people to sit at home getting stone and having more babies.

        "Sir! We have a Baby Daddy Gap! We must implement the More Free Shit For Nothing Program!"

    • The most dickish one was by a German professor I wrote to via email whose lectures consist of a lot of "We absolutely need this or else mankind is doomed, DOOMED I TELL YOU!" who told me to go buy his book.

      Ah yes, UBI. Universal Book Income.

    • "Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing." - Ron Swanson

    • Welfare states usually produce very unhappy and often useless people.

      The United States seems to have a lot of unhappy and useless people as it is. How many jobs, and not just in "services", boil down to contactless dick-sucking? I think people underestimate the portion of a modern economy that is busy-work. Everyone lives like a king today, yes - and they all need their jesters and attendant grape-feeders. Then there's the whole automation thing that's become so cliche, that it's easy to ignore intellectually - but that doesn't make it incorrect.

      I've heard people describe th

  • by dsanfte ( 443781 ) on Friday July 10, 2020 @03:06AM (#60282164) Journal

    Right now, most money in the economy is created by private banks when they make loans.

    UBI could replace this bank-led money creation by creating it at the point of use - right in people's pockets, and not tied to private debt.

    This also solves the funding problem.

    • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Friday July 10, 2020 @03:53AM (#60282252)
      Incurring debt when creating new money is necessary to guarantee that the money is used in a productive manner. i.e. The recipient of the loan money uses it in a way which helps him make money (productivity) to repay the debt. This is important because the whole point of creating new money is to try to keep the amount of available money in the economy proportional to the size of the economy (that is the whole point of having a fiat currency). So you create new money via a loan, and the loan recipient increases the size of the economy by using that money to generate business which makes at least the same amount of money back (so he can repay the loan).

      If you created new money uncoupled from any incentive to use it productively, people could use it on less- or non-productive stuff. e.g. You could blow it on gold toilet seats, or on illicit drugs (which actually decrease your productivity). The amount of money in the economy increases by $x, but the size of the economy increases by less than $x. The amount of money increases more than the economy, which is equivalent to the government printing too much money, and the currency devalues (we suffer accelerated inflation).

      What you're proposing basically amounts to what Venezuela did. The government used to offer a certain amount of services for free, paid for by oil exports. When their oil revenue crashed, they were offering more value in services than their economy was producing. This is impossible because productivity is conserved - everything that's consumed must first be first be produced. Venezuela tried to violate this rule of conservation of productivity by creating more money to pay for those additional services. The economy then reacted the only way it could to make the value of offered services (consumption) equal to the value the economy produced (production) - it devalued the Bolivar so the value of the offered services matched the value the economy was producing. That devaluation caused inflation. The Venezuelan government kept doubling-down on this, creating more money to offer the desired amount of services, which since it kept exceeding their production drove the inflation into hyper-inflation.
      • by Ichijo ( 607641 )

        Incurring debt when creating new money is necessary to guarantee that the money is used in a productive manner.

        Do you have a source for your claim that debt guarantees productivity?

    • That makes no sense because loans will still be required. People on a $30,000 annual UBI wont be paying cash for a house, a car, or any other big expense.

      • by dsanfte ( 443781 )

        And loans are still possible. Just not via money creation.

        Banks would return to their old business model: paying interest on deposits and lending out those deposits to make money. Instead of just printing it.

        • by guruevi ( 827432 )

          It isn't possible to give loans to people on UBI, they only get the 'basic' income, which means they do not have nor create any excess value and thus cannot repay any additional value the loan generates. If you give people more than the 'basics' to cover these additional expenses, it's no longer considered basic and simply 'just take whatever you want without paying for it'

          It's a negative feedback loop, you loan out to the person with UBI and want to collect interest, he can probably pay back the loan amoun

    • Banks do not create anything. It is the ingenuity and hard work of the people borrowing the money and creating wealth to pay it bank.
      So just to hit the point again banks do not create wealth. Banks loan money to hard "working" individuals who create the wealth to pay the loan bank.
      UBI is a lefty dream, but UBi is something for nothing. Someone has to work and create the wealth, which is taken away so others can get it for sitting on their couch playing video games.

      Just my 2 cents ;)
    • I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word 'created'?

      Or economics, really.

  • by bobstreo ( 1320787 ) on Friday July 10, 2020 @03:29AM (#60282200)

    and needed some quick deductions he could backdate to last year.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Someone modded this flamebait. Judging by the meltdown he had on Twitter yesterday and the general reaction from Trumpies I think this is going to be hilarious.

  • by Jarwulf ( 530523 ) on Friday July 10, 2020 @04:02AM (#60282268)
    The end goal is to automate things to the point that eventually people don't have to work and are free from dependence on corporations and the government. Why would we want to hook people on the dole from the government forever?
  • by Erik Hensema ( 12898 ) on Friday July 10, 2020 @04:40AM (#60282306) Homepage

    Please do a proper trial. One where all residents will receive the UBI and all working residents pay for it. It's pointless to only give UBI to residents without a job. That's just welfare and bound to be a great succes.

    The most interesting part is to have people pay a LOT of taxes in order to pay the UBI of everybody (and themselves receive UBI of course).

    It probably results in a 100% income tax for incomes below UBI level and close to 100% for just above UBI level. Higher incomes will have to accept a very steep income tax, but still earn above UBI level. The trial should prove if higher incomes are willing to pay up and lose some of their incomes. This is FAR more interesting than the part where people receive free money.

    • That's just welfare and bound to be a great succes

      You forgot the letter s for sarcasm

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      Higher incomes will have to accept a very steep income tax

      You clearly have no idea how 'the wealthy' work with money. Tax it too much and it simply disappears.

  • If Jack wants to experiment with UBI then he should invite his unproductive relatives to live in his basement and see how well that works out.

    BHN (Basic Human Nature) is: people squander and feel entitled when they are given free stuff.

    For an example of UBI just look at Indian reservations. Native Americans on reservations receive free housing, healthcare, education, and food; and government checks each month, and tax-free basic income. The rate of binge drinking among American Indians is 24 percent, the ra

    • by Evtim ( 1022085 )

      These rates you mention can be are higher in other societies on earth that have never been UBI-ied. Tobacco for example:

      Kiribati 52.2
      Nauru 47.5
      Greece 42.4
      Serbia 41.6
      Jordan 41.0
      Indonesia 39.8
      Russia 39.1
      Lebanon 38.3
      Bosnia and Herzegovina 38.3
      Chile 38.0
      ------------------
      USA 17.2

      The problem with native Americans IMO, is that their culture was destroyed (among with at least 100 000 different primitive societies as civilization marched through the globe in the last 10-15 thousand years.) and they never got a viab

  • If you give responsible people money, they will most likely use it wisely and carefully. If you give un-earned money to ignorant uneducated people, (many who have kids at young age), the money will be burned and they will just ask for more, and will have more and more children. the world is overpopulated. we need to reward people who have less children and more education, not unproductive people who don't even know how to educate and raise their children
    • by ledow ( 319597 )

      "If you give un-earned money to ignorant uneducated people, (many who have kids at young age), the money will be burned and they will just ask for more..."

      And you can say "You were given the same as everyone else. You squandered yours. Now you'll have to go our and earn some more. That's life. Deal with it."

      And then take their kids away and prosecute if they fail to provide for them.

      Giving everyone the same chance is not unfair. In fact it's far more fair than the current system where I have to work fo

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      If you give un-earned money to ignorant uneducated people

      I thought you were talking about the mayors for a moment there.

  • by WoodstockJeff ( 568111 ) on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:57AM (#60282646) Homepage

    from a political campaign finance violation?

  • by Somervillain ( 4719341 ) on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:58AM (#60283282)
    Everyone obsesses about how giving money away is bad and it will make people lazy. The point of UBI is not to make people comfortable, but to ensure their survival. It's to supplement a job. More importantly, for me,it means more money flowing into the economy, which benefits my company's customers. We do business with most major retailers....now with 12k/y, more people are buying things at their local grocery store, home improvement store, general retailer. They're buying more clothes, replacing shoes more often, etc. They're paying their phone/electric bills on time. My taxes go up, but so do my shares in my employer and other companies. My company is raking in tons of new revenue leading to raises and increased hiring.

    If you're a billionaire, sure, you pay more in taxes, but if you provide any real value to the economy, you will also get a significant boost in sales. It seems like a pretty good investment to me.

    If you're poor enough that UBI offsets the increased taxes, you're just going to spend that money right into the local economy...it's a win/win...reduced poverty...stimulus for local businesses....not to mention a reduction in crime and homelessness which is a huge drag on any urban economy....a reduced need for police and private security, etc.
  • by yassa2020 ( 6703044 ) on Friday July 10, 2020 @01:03PM (#60283858)

    It is worrying to see stuff like this. Such a small amount seems odd. Them saying they want to do experiments is odd.

    My mayor, from Los Angeles, recently signed into this. A week later he announced how $308 million will be used to house 15000 people, and then the next breath mentioned it would actually take an additional 800 million but 308 is coming from the federal government. If you do the math, it is a cost of 87200 per person. They are buying rundown old hotels. Instead of giving a shitty hotel room to 15k people, who will then still need food, clothing, and all other kinds of help if you ever want them to have hope of finding a job, they could give $1816 per month basic income for 30k people for 2 years. With that income they have shelter, food, clothing, and other basic necessities.

    There is 2 other programs announced in the last year totalling 3.5 billion. With all that money they could give basic income to all 150k currently homeless people. Immediate help. Instead, they have these bloated useless housing programs that will only house a tiny fraction and only after years of waiting. If he really cared about basic income, and really believed in it, wouldn't his actions be different?

    That's why I worry that the whole organization is astroturf designed to give political cover for some virtue signalling without ever actually helping anyone. Or even worse, they intend to make it look like basic income could never work, the opposite of what they claim.

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