Robinhood Users Say Accounts Were Looted, No One to Call (bloomberg.com) 56
An anonymous reader shares a report: It took Soraya Bagheri a day to learn that 450 shares of Moderna had been liquidated in her Robinhood account and that $10,000 in withdrawals were pending. But after alerting the online brokerage to what she believed was a theft in progress, she received a frustrating email. The firm wrote it would investigate and respond within "a few weeks." Now her money is gone. Bagheri is among five Robinhood customers who recounted similar experiences to Bloomberg News, saying they've been left in limbo in recent weeks after someone sold their investments and withdrew funds. Because the wildly popular app has no emergency phone number, some said they tried in vain to intervene, only to watch helplessly as their money vanished.
"A limited number of customers appear to have had their Robinhood account targeted by cyber criminals because of their personal email account (that which is associated with their Robinhood account) being compromised outside of Robinhood," a spokesman for the company said in an email. "We're actively working with those impacted to secure their accounts." The issue didn't stem from a breach of Robinhood's systems, the spokesman said.
"A limited number of customers appear to have had their Robinhood account targeted by cyber criminals because of their personal email account (that which is associated with their Robinhood account) being compromised outside of Robinhood," a spokesman for the company said in an email. "We're actively working with those impacted to secure their accounts." The issue didn't stem from a breach of Robinhood's systems, the spokesman said.
Robinhood again.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, it can't be because of their security, I mean they didn't admit they stored some passwords in cleartext [slashdot.org] last year, and they are not known for glitches generally [slashdot.org]... There are other discount brokers that don't show up in the news that often, I'd stay clear...
Re:Robinhood again.... (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah, it can't be because of their security, I mean they didn't admit they stored some passwords in cleartext [slashdot.org] last year, and they are not known for glitches generally [slashdot.org]... There are other discount brokers that don't show up in the news that often, I'd stay clear...
As a broker, Robinhood provides a very low friction UI compared to the more established online brokers. This should generally be a good thing.
I've been trying it for a few weeks and some of the features are compelling - Trade with money the moment you started the transfer from your bank, rather than waiting a week. A good UI for trading in dollars rather than number of shares, compare with fidelity where you bring up this clunky calculator thing, then transfer the result back to the number of shared to trade box. They don't futz with what shared you can trade. Fidelity randomly tell me I'm not permitted to trade some stock and I need to call them E.G. NNDM recently. Of course calling them takes time and as a short term dip trader, the moment is gone if you waste 10 minutes calling them, no such problems with Robinhood.
Tying security to the customer's email security is clearly a bad idea though. They need to fix that.
Re:Robinhood again.... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Apparently the support is low friction as well. Slamming into a brick wall isn't really friction, after all.
Re: Robinhood again.... (Score:2)
A brick wall would be comforting in comparison. Their supports sound more like freefalling in empty space.
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True, and it seems to be in a vacuum, so still no friction, at least until your wealth burns up on re-entry.
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With your fiscal parachute long gone.
Robin Hood... [Re:Robinhood again....] (Score:3)
These people do know that Robin Hood was a thief, right?
Right?
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Schwab does all of the things you list, though their UI for trading in dollars or fractional shares wouldn't be good for someone for whom seconds count. It is aimed at traders who want a fixed dollar value split across multiple stocks, and does a good job of that.
It works well for me, trading my fictional shares
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Gambling at a casino is a losing game.
Gambling on the market is on average a winning game.
Calling investing gambling is just applying value judgements to trading styles.
I play the hand I know well - entropy and time series analysis. It works for me. I'll be able to retire based on competent trading.
You trade how you want to, but there is zero moral or legal difference between trading a stock on Fidelity vs. trading a stock on Robinhood. They are both brokers. They both present a UI. One of them does it bett
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"You trade how you want to, but there is zero moral or legal difference between trading a stock on Fidelity vs. trading a stock on Robinhood. They are both brokers. They both present a UI. One of them does it better."
And the one that does it better would be the one who makes it more difficult for hackers to steal your account and gives some form of support to help if that should happen.
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"You trade how you want to, but there is zero moral or legal difference between trading a stock on Fidelity vs. trading a stock on Robinhood. They are both brokers. They both present a UI. One of them does it better."
And the one that does it better would be the one who makes it more difficult for hackers to steal your account and gives some form of support to help if that should happen.
That's why I didn't state which. People's priorities differ.
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there is zero moral or legal difference between trading a stock on Fidelity vs. trading a stock on Robinhood. They are both brokers. They both present a UI. One of them does it better.
I use Fidelity.
They are both brokers, true. Both present a UI.
One of them does it better because losing your money isn't a good investment choice.
There is nothing "better" about having less security. Pretty icons, or whatever the fuck about the "interface" that you're talking about, has nothing to do with trading stocks.
Fidelity you can trade fractional shares on the app just the same as regular shares, you just select "dollars" instead of "shares" for the quantity. There is nothing to improve that would
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A good UI for trading in dollars rather than number of shares, compare with fidelity where you bring up this clunky calculator thing
I honestly dont understand how any stock trading software isnt doing these things for you... kinda crazy on the buy side not to be doing this, since everyone, all the time, buys dollar amounts of a stock, rounded to.
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A good UI for trading in dollars rather than number of shares, compare with fidelity where you bring up this clunky calculator thing
I honestly dont understand how any stock trading software isnt doing these things for you... kinda crazy on the buy side not to be doing this, since everyone, all the time, buys dollar amounts of a stock, rounded to.
They do it, just in really clunky ways. I suspect RH has some competent UI people and incompetent security people.
Re: Robinhood again.... (Score:2)
Or some competent UI people who think they are competent security people.
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I think you may have hit one something there.
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A good UI for trading in dollars rather than number of shares, compare with fidelity where you bring up this clunky calculator thing
I honestly dont understand how any stock trading software isnt doing these things for you
Basically, the person doesn't know that Fidelity supports fractional trading and is talking about the regular non-fractional interface.
They don't know you just toggle the units between "dollars" and "shares." The calculator thing is when you're on "shares" which is normal investing.
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I've been trying it for a few weeks and some of the features are compelling - Trade with money the moment you started the transfer from your bank, rather than waiting a week.
I never did complete my setup with them and haven't bothered to login again since.
The problem I saw is that for both banks I use they do *NOT* support oauth with, even though my banks actually do. You must directly turn over your online banking credentials to these people so their software can login to your account and do god knows what while claiming to check your balance.
Fuck that noise.
Your email account security is the least of your problems when (not if, only when) they are hacked and everyones banki
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You must directly turn over your online banking credentials to these people so their software can login to your account
Fucking hell. If that's the case then it's reasonable to suggest that every single one of their users is an idiot.
How to piss off your bank and lose all protections for your money: Step 1.
Re: Robinhood again.... (Score:2)
ACH transfers don't need to authenticate with your bank. You can probably setup a temporary password, link it to RH, then change the password.
Re: Robinhood again.... (Score:2)
It seems the same "low friction" is being used to drain compromised accounts. There always needs to be a good balance between security and "low friction". After all, passwords, two factor authentation and other access control methods are also just friction, right?
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Done right it need not be. But done right usually involves physical tokens, which cost money and time to set up. Once set up, it's fine.
The RH on my phone uses the phone fingerprint reader, which I have my doubts about, but if you keep your phone about your person, it's probably ok and it's certainly convenient.
Being a security type, I doubt my passwords are crackable and they aren't shared, but that's not a safe assumption to make for a whole user base. That's where the criticism of RH is entirely valid. T
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Time to setup token = friction
Having to remember to bring the hardware token with you = friction
Fingerprint authentication = friction (what if you want to make quick trade but your hands are covered in dirt, or worse, you have glue on your hands as you were fixing something).
Least friction would be to just have a voice interface, where you can say "Robinhood, buy 10 TSLA shares" anywhere in the vicinity of your phone, smart watch, or smart speaker, and tada - instant trade. No voiceprint either in case you
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They screwed up their user security model.
You can't contact them to report problems. They are unable to stop an attack after informed that it is in progress.
That is not the "user security model" that is basic matters of business and being responsible with their client's money. If they're told about a problem and they refuse to fix it, or even look at it, for weeks, that has nothing to do with the "user security model" that has to do with gross negligence that may make them entirely responsible for the losses, and in violation of numerous financia
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They screwed up their user security model.
You can't contact them to report problems. They are unable to stop an attack after informed that it is in progress.
That is not the "user security model" that is basic matters of business and being responsible with their client's money. If they're told about a problem and they refuse to fix it, or even look at it, for weeks, that has nothing to do with the "user security model" that has to do with gross negligence that may make them entirely responsible for the losses, and in violation of numerous financial regulations.
Well yes, but I'm less given to histrionics than you.
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Well yes, but I'm less given to histrionics than you.
When you admit it is true but still have to try to insult the speaker and minimize what was said, it just means you're a dishonest asshole. That's all it means.
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As a broker, Robinhood provides a very low friction UI compared to the more established online brokers. This should generally be a good thing.
Why would being slippery make a user interface better? Why would that be good?
It is less secure, is all you mean. That's 100% of what you mean.
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I don't even understand the point of a "discount" broker, since all the major firms stopped charging commissions on trades.
Um, it's right in the name (Score:5, Funny)
The money's on its way to the poor as we speak.
Robinhood account targeted by cyber criminals
I bet it's that rascally Sheriff of Nottingham. No wait -- which one is the criminal here? I sense the possibility of a modern-day reboot with morally equivocal antagonists.
modern investing (Score:5, Funny)
Raeganomics (Score:2)
The Sheriff of Nottingham again (Score:2)
Who else?
Silver lining (Score:2)
I am sure it will be evenly distributed to the poor.
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Except what they keep for expenses.
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Now that is a deep cut.
https://youtu.be/YO2Viv8dQJ4 [youtu.be]
Meme company has meme security? (Score:2)
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I thought I was being picky when I rejected Schwab because it didn't work with my browser and all my security extensions!
If they were saving money on something it would make more sense, but this idea of the "UI" being more important than... if they're a legit financial services company that can handle problems that come up, I just don't get this. Trades are commissionless everywhere. I pay 1 to 3 cents per 1000 dollars when I sell. That's the only thing that I pay at all for the services.
Who is the target audience for Robinhood (Score:2)
Never used Robinhood, but based on the news reports and a few of the posts above it seems aimed at a version of day trader that I'm not familiar with.
I don't day trade anymore, but when I did my set-up was pretty comprehensive, and I paid for data feeds, paid for a trading account, etc. For that money I got, what was for the time, really fast responses for trades and market info. I spent a lot of time working on trades and strategies. I am out of that game,
now I buy and sell infrequently, seconds (nor m
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Interactive brokers. Tough to beat.
Robinhood... LOL. My advice is to close that account, never look back. Dealing with them is like dealing with a guy in an alley in San Francisco. You're rich, he's poor... Score!
Re:Who is the target audience for Robinhood (Score:4)
For everyone else there are the more established reputable brokerages, many of which now have free trades as well. I just got into stocks 6 months ago (thanks fed for making savings accounts lose money), and chose a brokerage that actually has a brick and mortar presence about 20 miles north of me, so if something goes wrong I feel better knowing I can storm the building to complain; obviously you will need to make an appointment first with today's pandemic - but it still makes me feel better than dealing with a faceless entity.
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It cracks me up, my brokerage account literally has a checking account as the basket where my uninvested money sits (I don't let them put it in a money market pool) and it earns more interest (multiple cents!!!) per month than my "savings" account earns all year.
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They don't know that Fidelity is commissionless, with no account fee, and supports fractional trading in the app? (That's the one downside if you like fractional trading; it doesn't work in the web browser)
Bank transfers take 2 days to complete, but I can trade on the money right away.
The only things to pay for are services like data feeds if you have some use for by-the-second data, but they don't get that from "robinhood" anyway.
I'm exceptionally clueless though; I don't even understand the point of fract
This is why... (Score:4, Insightful)
This is why when you're dealing with your money, track record, reputation, and physical presence actually matter. Where's your nearest Robin Hood branch office? Who's the PoC for security issues? How do you reach them if there's an emergency? How do they verify your identity? What, if any major class-actions have been brought against them, and why? These are the questions that most of their customers probably fail to ask.
And note, fintech companies like RH aren't the only ones that would fail an interrogation like this. I'm looking at you, Wells Fargo, Bank of America--both, I'd never deal with them.
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I realize they have a very bad reputation, but I had received very good service from Wells Fargo when someone tried to take over my account. I received emails warning me that account information had been changed, and I was able to get a real person on the phone fast enough to keep my account from being drained. If Robinhood had that kind of support those people would still have their money.
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I can't figure out why BofA is so popular for business checking; they only have one branch in my city and there is always a long line outside, it seems incredibly time consuming and inconvenient if you have some important business.
I do business banking at a popular bank with higher customer service ratings, and nothing routine even costs anything. And I only wait if it is rush hour, and even then only a couple minutes. It shocks me how willing people are to choose crappy services for no apparent benefit.
I'm sorry, what? (Score:2)
If yoi take my money, and somebody steals it from you, you still owe me that money!
Nobody cares what reasons you give for "Aand it's gone!". Unless you can show me the thief, YOU are the thief!
And every business has to register somewhere, to do business, even in the US, no? So there is always somebody who had to walk up to.some government adinistration in person. And leave his registeded address. So that is where you send the court order and then cops..
The same thing is happening with Cash App (Score:4)
Users have trusted this cash transfer app in the past because it's by Square, the company that makes those miniature credit card readers attached to a tablet that you see in every independent small retail business these days. Recently a scam has proliferated that is suddenly draining the bank accounts of Cash App users. Then they find out there is no customer support line for this app. You can only watch helplessly as your bank account heads off to Nigeria.
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Sounds almost like you need a legally required complaints procedure, and an statutory ombudsman to oversee the whole process, enforced by law, and make it part of the banking licensing requirements so you can't handle people's money without it, and without paying for appropriate insurance and appropriately partitioning customer's funds such that you can offer compensation no matter what should anything get broken into.
Like any sensible country already has.
If you have a complaint, you file it against the com
Isn't Robinhood a financial instutition? (Score:2)
Somehow they seem to be able to skim through security requirements. Everything about them seems to be very lax compared to established institutions. Just a while ago a 20 year old had committed suicide for their irresponsible behavior.
Investment is about patience, and knowing what you are doing. Using the modern adrenaline inducing tricks to have people play this as a game ends in disaster.
Somehow I think as a society we should put some restrictions on it. Maybe a commission on exchange of securities? We co