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Education The Almighty Buck

Nevada Department of Education Has No Direct Say In Who Gets Tesla's $37.5 Million K-12 Donation (nevadacurrent.com) 69

theodp writes: The Nevada Legislature in 2014 approved a $1.3 billion tax break -- the largest tax break in the history of the state -- to woo Tesla into locating its battery factory in Northern NV. In return, Tesla made a $37.5 million pledge to support K-12 education ($7.5M annually, for 5 years, beginning in 2018). Lawmakers are now expressing surprise after learning that the NV Dept. of Education has no direct role in deciding which organizations receive the $37.5 million in donations pledged by Tesla.

Last month, the state's deputy superintendent for business and support services, informed lawmakers that Tesla "identifies the entities and the amounts those entities will receive." She described the NV Dept. of Education and its Education Gift Fund as merely an intermediary, raising eyebrows among some lawmakers who questioned the process used to determine what organizations received money. "To me it's symptomatic of how the state exists -- as an appendage to corporate affairs," said Bob Fulkerson, who heads the Progressive Leadership Alliance of Nevada. "That's the reason for Nevada to exist. For corporations to make as much money as they can and pay as little as they can in taxes."

In 2019, Governor Steve Sisolak announced that Tesla would invest $1 million to support Nevada's computer science education initiatives as part of the company's statewide education investment. Sisolak made the announcement at The Mirage in Las Vegas during CSEdCon, a CS education conference hosted by the tech-bankrolled nonprofit Code.org. According to a spreadsheet provided to the Nevada Current by the NV Dept. of Education, Code.org received $761,540 from the initial two years of Tesla donations, while another $200,000 went to Girls Who Code.

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Nevada Department of Education Has No Direct Say In Who Gets Tesla's $37.5 Million K-12 Donation

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  • Morons (Score:5, Informative)

    by superdave80 ( 1226592 ) on Friday February 12, 2021 @07:49PM (#61057964)

    The $37.5 million pledge to support K-12 education wasn’t codified into any bill (because a state can’t legally make a corporation donate money, said officials at the time).

    YES THEY CAN! THEY'RE CALLED TAXES YOU NIMRODS! THE THING YOU TOLD THEM THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY!!!

    Sorry for the caps, but, damn, government can be stupid sometimes.

    • Re:Morons (Score:5, Insightful)

      by djinn6 ( 1868030 ) on Friday February 12, 2021 @07:57PM (#61057980)

      Not to mention:

      Lawmakers are now expressing surprise after learning that the NV Dept. of Education has no direct role in deciding which organizations receive the $37.5 million in donations pledged by Tesla.

      Brought to you by the same lawmakers who voted to pass this bill.

      If they had no idea what was in it, maybe... just maybe... they shouldn't have passed it.

      • Re:Morons (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Rockoon ( 1252108 ) on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:09PM (#61058008)

        Brought to you by the same lawmakers who voted to pass this bill.

        Also the statement is fallacious once de-obfuscated. The lawmakers did have control over what Tesla did with the money, and they decided that with their control that they would restrict the money to funding only K-12 education.

        The honest headline should read:

        LAWMAKERS ARE TRYING TO REOPEN THE CASE OF THEIR PREVIOUS USE OF POWER - HAVING POWER IS FUN SOME THEORIZE

        • by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Friday February 12, 2021 @09:12PM (#61058160) Journal

          I find it interesting that nobody is saying Tesla isn't funding k-12 education, just like they promised.

          The complaint is that some bureaucrats don't get control over a few billion dollars. They don't get to play "I'll direct Tesla's money to you if you do what I want. Don't play ball with me and you don't get funded". That's the complaint, that bureaucrats don't get to play "you scratch my back and I'll not scratch yours". No complaints about how the money is being spent.

          • by XXongo ( 3986865 ) on Friday February 12, 2021 @09:58PM (#61058250) Homepage

            The complaint is that some bureaucrats don't get control over a few billion dollars.

            The amount was "$37.5 million... $7.5M annually, for 5 years."

            Sounds like some of that money should have gone to improve teaching in whatever school district failed to teach you arithmetic.

            • Obviously I wasn't paying attention. :)

              • Here is a wild thought. Just maybe the lawmakers care because their benefactors are meant to be teachers unions as opposed to organizations that actually help students. Girls who code, code.org, and computer classes sound like a great way to spend it. Elon is a lot of things. An idiot he is not. Let them decide where the money goes, and take the win that money is flowing to teach your kids.
          • The complaint is that some bureaucrats don't get control over a few billion dollars.

            Those bureaucrats probably know that 7.5 million a year for five years is 37.5 million - which is far closer to zero than to a few billion.

          • No, it is exactly what has always happened. It is only a few people expressing surprise.

            It is no different from the various states that brought in lotteries saying "all the money will go to education".

            Sure, the money gets earmarked for education. But whatever amount gets added, the other contributions from taxes are reduced, and the net effect is zero. The people feel like they did something, and legislators spend the money on projects they want.

            No matter how much was earmarked for it, bottom line for total

        • I stopped

      • Somehow I don't trust that the politicians would do a significantly better job allocating these money than Tesla would. I mean these people apparently don't read what they are voting for. You could probably let a random number generator make decisions and the outcome would probably be better.

      • If they had no idea what was in it, maybe... just maybe... they shouldn't have passed it.

        Is that ... a principle? Because if it is, it applies to Obamacare, and about a zillion other bills.

        • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

          Is that ... a principle?

          I know those are hard to come by nowadays, but some people still have them.

          it applies to Obamacare, and about a zillion other bills.

          Yes it does. Is there a problem?

    • Re:Morons (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:31PM (#61058058)

      When people here tout companies leaving California this is the real reason. The sucker here is Nevada for racing to the bottom.

  • Tesla filled a bunch of otherwise worthless desert with a factory. Independent of the tax deduction, NV will still collect income and property taxes (assuming they do property tax, not all states do, too lazy to research). Net/net, NV is ahead on the deal, independent of how educational fund commitments are directed.
    • Re:So what? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Friday February 12, 2021 @07:58PM (#61057982)

      Tesla filled a bunch of otherwise worthless desert with a factory. Independent of the tax deduction, NV will still collect income and property taxes (assuming they do property tax, not all states do, too lazy to research). Net/net, NV is ahead on the deal, independent of how educational fund commitments are directed.

      Don't you think "net/net" Nevada would be in a LOT better position financially, with 1.3 billion in tax revenue, vs. the $37 million they actually received?

      Nothing against Tesla, but one would think Nevada would know a thing or two about gambling.

      • by quall ( 1441799 )

        Of coarse they would.

        But then Tesla would be building their factory in a state who IS offering them a tax break.

      • Don't you think "net/net" Nevada would be in a LOT better position financially, with 1.3 billion in tax revenue

        "That's the reason for Nevada to exist. For corporations to make as much money as they can and pay as little as they can in taxes."

        If Nevada wants to be a barren wasteland of dirt between inhabited states of the US then no they would not be better off financially.

        Nevada shouldn't exist. It doesn't have enough water. It doesn't have industry. There is no reason to pick Nevada... except for the fact that you can do whatever the fuck you want and not pay taxes.

        Charging Taxes in Nevada would be like banning g

        • "That's the reason for Nevada to exist. For corporations to make as much money as they can and pay as little as they can in taxes."

          I thought Nevada was a corporate construct created by Amazon because they needed a large regional distribution center in the area?

          Does this mean there's some sort of Amazon-Tesla partnership now?

      • Tht 1.3 billion is a bit like the estimated losses of record companies due to piracy. Realistically they could probably give Tesla a lower tax break and Tesla would still go there because the land in NV is way cheaper than in CA.

      • by msauve ( 701917 )
        >Don't you think "net/net" Nevada would be in a LOT better position financially, with 1.3 billion in tax revenue, vs. the $37 million they actually received?

        Whooooshh. False dichotomy. It's not 1.3 billion vs 37 million, it's 37 million plus income taxes, plus property taxes, plus increased economic activity vs $0, because the plant would have been built elsewhere.

        You really don't understand how this stuff works.
    • Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:43PM (#61058102)

      Tesla filled a bunch of otherwise worthless desert with a factory.

      The still doesn't justify a special deal. If building a factory in the desert is such a good deal for Nevada, then the tax incentives should be put into law and available to any company that wants to do the same.

      The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution mandates equal treatment. Special sweetheart deals should be illegal.

    • NV will still collect income and property taxes

      What makes you think that? Sure, Tesla is deducting taxes from employees for state taxes, but as I understand it, it's keeping that cash too. And I know of no state that collects property taxes, although many have counties that do.

      • Nevada is one of four states that have neither a corporate income tax nor a personal income tax. Nevada's property tax rates are among the lowest in the U.S. The state's average effective property tax rate is just 0.53%, which is well below the national average of 1.07%.

        You might be confused because most counties assess the value of your property and collect the state taxes in that area. I guess technically you're correct because the State doesn't collect the tax directly.

        --
        • You're right, I was confused. Nevada does have payroll taxes, but those are directly paid by the company and not withheld from the employee. NV is allowing Tesla to keep several hundred millions in payroll taxes.

    • Worthless desert ?

      As opposed to pretend zeros in a banks computer.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • The Nevada politicians cannot complain about this if the agreement from Tesla did not include the specifics of how the money was to be distributed. It is nearly certain that Tesla will do a better job distributing the money than the bureaucrats would, anyway. Tesla is likely to spend the money on computer facilities, basic supplies, and physical improvements. The bureaucrats would pour the money into the general school funds, where the teachers' union would demand most of it and the school sports program

    • by Tailhook ( 98486 )

      It is nearly certain that Tesla will do a better job distributing the money than the bureaucrats would, anyway.

      The bureaucrats will use it to pad bureaucrat pensions and benefits. I don't know how Telsa will earmark it but I'm 100% certain that whatever Tesla comes up with will indeed be better than that.

    • by dryeo ( 100693 )

      Do you really believe that big business is not full of bureaucrats?

      • Do you really believe that big business is not full of bureaucrats?

        Big business is full of bureaucrats... who can be fired.

        So inherently even the most incompetent at a big business are about 100% more capable than the average government bureaucrat...

        Except at one thing; government officials are miles better at graft.

        • by dryeo ( 100693 )

          I can vote out my government, unlike lets say my ISP. Too many businesses I'm stuck with due to lack of choice, which makes them only responsible to their shareholders, unlike my government who has to go to the polls every 4 years or so, more often if enough people demand it.
          Democracy means being able to fire the government, unlike various businesses that due to high entry costs, I'm stuck with.

          • I can vote out my government

            We aren't talking about elected officials. We are talking about government bureaucrats. That cannot be voted out.

            You can vote for someone who says they will get rid of them - but 99% of the time they are lying. The 1% of the time they were not lying, they find they can actually only get rid of a few at the top most level, the rest of them stay forever and you cannot do anything about it whatsoever.

            The rest of your argument I did not read since your central premise was DOA.

            • by dryeo ( 100693 )

              Bureaucrats are appointed by the government, who can fire them. Generally they're good appointments and here the last election, back in October, was mainly about the bureaucrat who was running the pandemic, due to the government letting the bureaucrat run the pandemic, they had a record win, even with people really pissed off at them calling an election during a pandemic.
              There's something wrong with your system if citizens don't have a say about bureaucrats, and if your bureaucrats are that crappy, probably

    • It is nearly certain that Tesla will do a better job distributing the money than the bureaucrats would

      The same company that doesn't match its employees 401ks, keeps violating OSHA requirements and kept reopening during COVID lockdowns? That's whose judgment you trust? Instead of the people elected to lead the state of Nevada's education department?

  • by AlexHilbertRyan ( 7255798 ) on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:37PM (#61058084)
    How many billions in gifts from all forms of gov is Musk up to now ?
    • The free market at work, even our hallowed political process has a price tag.

      TANSTAAFL. Free means zero money changes hands, and that never happens because in the real world people pay Elon Musk to have lunch with him.

      • Of course, just discussing for America and its bullshit about free market, and yet many of the big tech companies are not free at all, they are all recipients of billions some tens of billions.

        They are more communist than the communist crony companies.
        • We operate a unique system of pork and lemon socialism [wikipedia.org]. There are two key goals in our system; keep the money flowing to those with money, and let them pretend they've earned it fairly.

  • They're only upset because they've realized they can't siphon that 40 million into their own little "charities" and "education funds" to skim 80% off the top for themselves.

    Maybe, just maybe, Tesla's money is going to be spent on actual education; something the company - and other companies - will benefit from in the long run. The political grifters, well, they only have themselves to blame for eying up Tesla's donations like a personal meal ticket without making sure they were lubing up their own pockets w

    • They're only upset because they've realized they can't siphon that 40 million into their own little "charities" and "education funds

      I came here to post a joke along those lines, but really it is not joke - that is exactly why there are so mad. Using reason and logic as to who should get all that cash? Madness!

    • by dryeo ( 100693 )

      How do you know that it won't all be spent on Musk's education?

  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Friday February 12, 2021 @09:11PM (#61058156)

    This sort of corporate-micromanaged agreement does seem very Musk-like. Regardless, looking at the list of recipients (which is in the linked article), it seems to be responsibly distributed. My only question is why parts of a "K-12" donation are going to university entities such as the Desert Research Institute and the UNLV foundation... perhaps scholarship funding?

    From TFA:

    Organization Amount received, as of January 2020
    Robotics Education and Competition (REC) Foundation $4,868,200
    Envirolution $1,416,290
    DRI $1,415,081
    FIRST Robotics $1,280,781
    Jobs for Nevada's Graduates (J4NG) $1,059,852
    Sierra Nevada Journeys $810,073
    Code.org $761,540
    Nevada Museum of Art $680,040
    SAE Foundation $625,000
    Truckee Meadows Community College Foundation $594,176
    Discovery Museum of Northern Nevada $397,887
    Solar Rollers - Energetics Education $305,193
    Washoe County School District $293,800
    Clark County School District $290,000
    Roadtrip Nation $276,000
    Carson City School District (+Green Schools National Network) $266,250
    UNLV Foundation $225,000

    • by godrik ( 1287354 )

      I don't know if UNLV does any of that. But there are plenty of university charities who are organization summer camps for kids, or science fairs, or stuff like that.

      DRI also has some K-12 education programs: https://www.dri.edu/education/ [dri.edu]

      So maybe that checks out.

  • Unelected bureaucrats should not be making these decisions. A state department of education should advise and carry out the directions of the Governor and Legislature.

    • Unelected bureaucrats should not be making these decisions.

      Strange, when I looked up at your subject it asked "why is this a problem" Are you advocating for Tesla's unelected bureaucrats to make those decisions or are you advocating for the education department (which was elected) to do so? Or are you saying you want the Governor to make the decisions even thought the dept. of education people were elected specifically to do that?

    • Sadly it is exactly what has always happened.

      It is no different from the states that brought in lotteries saying "all the money will go to education".

      Sure, the money gets earmarked for education. But whatever amount gets added, the other contributions from taxes are reduced, and the net effect is zero.

      The bottom line for education funding is unchanged, but the masses feel better because they "did something".

  • I'd rather have Tesla make the choices. The US educational system is sufficiently broken having Tesla make the call is likely wiser.

  • Brilliany, Elon! Train them early.
  • This is classic trickle down wealth politics, it doesn't work, we know this, when will the politicians accept it. You have to take the money off them or it just goes into board members bank accounts instead of into the local economy.
  • If the same tax money Nevada threw away had instead been used to give 4500 citizens $50K a year for the 6 years since the deal was made, to do whatever they liked, how many new businesses would have opened up in Nevada?

    • by hawk ( 1151 )

      exactly zero.

      The plant wouldn't have opened, and there wouldn't have been tax revenue.

      That said, I'm quite opposed to this kind of tax break existing. However, no state can unilaterally end it. It really does call for Congress to get involved.

  • > "To me it's symptomatic of how the state exists -- as an appendage to corporate affairs," said Bob Fulkerson, who heads the Progressive Leadership Alliance of Nevada.

    We have a proverb in Poland: "Hit the table and the scissors will speak up". I think that adjective "Progressive" in above sentence explains why Tesla prefers to allocate their money directly. Maybe there is a worry that it might be spend on some "progressive science"?

  • He who has the gold makes the rules.

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