Nevada Department of Education Has No Direct Say In Who Gets Tesla's $37.5 Million K-12 Donation (nevadacurrent.com) 69
theodp writes: The Nevada Legislature in 2014 approved a $1.3 billion tax break -- the largest tax break in the history of the state -- to woo Tesla into locating its battery factory in Northern NV. In return, Tesla made a $37.5 million pledge to support K-12 education ($7.5M annually, for 5 years, beginning in 2018). Lawmakers are now expressing surprise after learning that the NV Dept. of Education has no direct role in deciding which organizations receive the $37.5 million in donations pledged by Tesla.
Last month, the state's deputy superintendent for business and support services, informed lawmakers that Tesla "identifies the entities and the amounts those entities will receive." She described the NV Dept. of Education and its Education Gift Fund as merely an intermediary, raising eyebrows among some lawmakers who questioned the process used to determine what organizations received money. "To me it's symptomatic of how the state exists -- as an appendage to corporate affairs," said Bob Fulkerson, who heads the Progressive Leadership Alliance of Nevada. "That's the reason for Nevada to exist. For corporations to make as much money as they can and pay as little as they can in taxes."
In 2019, Governor Steve Sisolak announced that Tesla would invest $1 million to support Nevada's computer science education initiatives as part of the company's statewide education investment. Sisolak made the announcement at The Mirage in Las Vegas during CSEdCon, a CS education conference hosted by the tech-bankrolled nonprofit Code.org. According to a spreadsheet provided to the Nevada Current by the NV Dept. of Education, Code.org received $761,540 from the initial two years of Tesla donations, while another $200,000 went to Girls Who Code.
Last month, the state's deputy superintendent for business and support services, informed lawmakers that Tesla "identifies the entities and the amounts those entities will receive." She described the NV Dept. of Education and its Education Gift Fund as merely an intermediary, raising eyebrows among some lawmakers who questioned the process used to determine what organizations received money. "To me it's symptomatic of how the state exists -- as an appendage to corporate affairs," said Bob Fulkerson, who heads the Progressive Leadership Alliance of Nevada. "That's the reason for Nevada to exist. For corporations to make as much money as they can and pay as little as they can in taxes."
In 2019, Governor Steve Sisolak announced that Tesla would invest $1 million to support Nevada's computer science education initiatives as part of the company's statewide education investment. Sisolak made the announcement at The Mirage in Las Vegas during CSEdCon, a CS education conference hosted by the tech-bankrolled nonprofit Code.org. According to a spreadsheet provided to the Nevada Current by the NV Dept. of Education, Code.org received $761,540 from the initial two years of Tesla donations, while another $200,000 went to Girls Who Code.
Morons (Score:5, Informative)
The $37.5 million pledge to support K-12 education wasn’t codified into any bill (because a state can’t legally make a corporation donate money, said officials at the time).
YES THEY CAN! THEY'RE CALLED TAXES YOU NIMRODS! THE THING YOU TOLD THEM THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY!!!
Sorry for the caps, but, damn, government can be stupid sometimes.
Re:Morons (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to mention:
Lawmakers are now expressing surprise after learning that the NV Dept. of Education has no direct role in deciding which organizations receive the $37.5 million in donations pledged by Tesla.
Brought to you by the same lawmakers who voted to pass this bill.
If they had no idea what was in it, maybe... just maybe... they shouldn't have passed it.
Re:Morons (Score:4, Insightful)
Brought to you by the same lawmakers who voted to pass this bill.
Also the statement is fallacious once de-obfuscated. The lawmakers did have control over what Tesla did with the money, and they decided that with their control that they would restrict the money to funding only K-12 education.
The honest headline should read:
LAWMAKERS ARE TRYING TO REOPEN THE CASE OF THEIR PREVIOUS USE OF POWER - HAVING POWER IS FUN SOME THEORIZE
Odd thing to complain about too (Score:5, Informative)
I find it interesting that nobody is saying Tesla isn't funding k-12 education, just like they promised.
The complaint is that some bureaucrats don't get control over a few billion dollars. They don't get to play "I'll direct Tesla's money to you if you do what I want. Don't play ball with me and you don't get funded". That's the complaint, that bureaucrats don't get to play "you scratch my back and I'll not scratch yours". No complaints about how the money is being spent.
millions, billions... whatever (Score:4, Insightful)
The complaint is that some bureaucrats don't get control over a few billion dollars.
The amount was "$37.5 million... $7.5M annually, for 5 years."
Sounds like some of that money should have gone to improve teaching in whatever school district failed to teach you arithmetic.
Re: (Score:2)
Obviously I wasn't paying attention. :)
Re: millions, billions... whatever (Score:1)
One thing those bureaucrats would know.... (Score:2)
Those bureaucrats probably know that 7.5 million a year for five years is 37.5 million - which is far closer to zero than to a few billion.
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They probably do.
https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]
Re: Odd thing to complain about too (Score:2)
No, it is exactly what has always happened. It is only a few people expressing surprise.
It is no different from the various states that brought in lotteries saying "all the money will go to education".
Sure, the money gets earmarked for education. But whatever amount gets added, the other contributions from taxes are reduced, and the net effect is zero. The people feel like they did something, and legislators spend the money on projects they want.
No matter how much was earmarked for it, bottom line for total
Re: Morons (Score:1)
I stopped
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Somehow I don't trust that the politicians would do a significantly better job allocating these money than Tesla would. I mean these people apparently don't read what they are voting for. You could probably let a random number generator make decisions and the outcome would probably be better.
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If they had no idea what was in it, maybe... just maybe... they shouldn't have passed it.
Is that ... a principle? Because if it is, it applies to Obamacare, and about a zillion other bills.
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Is that ... a principle?
I know those are hard to come by nowadays, but some people still have them.
it applies to Obamacare, and about a zillion other bills.
Yes it does. Is there a problem?
Re:Morons (Score:4, Insightful)
When people here tout companies leaving California this is the real reason. The sucker here is Nevada for racing to the bottom.
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Nevada allows non-compete clauses as well.
Also, hookers and blackjack.
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So what? (Score:1)
Re:So what? (Score:4, Insightful)
Tesla filled a bunch of otherwise worthless desert with a factory. Independent of the tax deduction, NV will still collect income and property taxes (assuming they do property tax, not all states do, too lazy to research). Net/net, NV is ahead on the deal, independent of how educational fund commitments are directed.
Don't you think "net/net" Nevada would be in a LOT better position financially, with 1.3 billion in tax revenue, vs. the $37 million they actually received?
Nothing against Tesla, but one would think Nevada would know a thing or two about gambling.
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Of coarse they would.
But then Tesla would be building their factory in a state who IS offering them a tax break.
Re: So what? (Score:1)
No, itâ(TM)s a race to the top. Itâ(TM)s zero tax revenue vs a non-zero amount of revenue. The tax break is an investment, it signifies the state is willing to cede the short term revenue of a property tax and wait for the income and business and the host of other taxes and fees the state is able to collect after the business is up and running.
Re: So what? (Score:4, Informative)
If tesla didnâ(TM)t build the factory in NV they would be way worse off. And they still get to collect taxes on all the money tesla employees spend in the state plus the taxes on all the homes they buy etc. The headline should read âoe NV politicians shocked they canâ(TM)t control where private company DONATES money. âoe Btw the 37 m in donations may do more net good than the 1 billion in taxes. The donations will not be going to waste in programs created to benefit teachers unions , police unions and prison unions.
$37 million vs. 1.3 billion. While I agree that the educational benefit may far exceed that some day, they have quite a long way to go on that gamble.
And the larger gamble, is continuing to allow every mega-corp to pull this game. New human factory jobs claims, can turn into crap faster than a politician's campaign promise, especially as we enter the era of factory automation. ($1.3 billion, buys a lot of robots.)
Tax breaks, are not exactly something companies worth hundreds of billions, need. Ireland is already floating on loopholed trillions. When might we actually start taxing mega-corps again? You realize that's hundreds of billions state and federal coffers look to the middle class to make up for, right? With proper taxation, we might actually be able to build a competitive public education system and pay teachers a much-deserved salary with that revenue (something they likely won't see even with this generous donation.)
Re: So what? (Score:1)
We already have the highest tax corporate tax rates in the world. The tax breaks prevent the further bleeding of capital and investment to places like Ireland. And our public school system is likewise well funded, itâ(TM)s just poorly ran. We spend sufficient amounts of money to provide every family of 2 children with a full time private tutor that would make more than the average teacher ($65k-85k/y). Go to your local school budget meetings and ask why a football field should cost $3M.
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We already have the highest tax corporate tax rates in the world.
And now we seem to think that giving it away for damn near free, under extortion of big business coming to your state, is somehow better?
Recall the dystopian world we now live in that turned the human into a product, because we started giving every damn thing away for free. What will "free" taxes for those who should be filling the overwhemling bulk of tax coffers provide? Enslavement for the middle class paying for every damn thing? Gee, how utterly fair in a world that riots for equality. I can see t
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Don't you think "net/net" Nevada would be in a LOT better position financially, with 1.3 billion in tax revenue
"That's the reason for Nevada to exist. For corporations to make as much money as they can and pay as little as they can in taxes."
If Nevada wants to be a barren wasteland of dirt between inhabited states of the US then no they would not be better off financially.
Nevada shouldn't exist. It doesn't have enough water. It doesn't have industry. There is no reason to pick Nevada... except for the fact that you can do whatever the fuck you want and not pay taxes.
Charging Taxes in Nevada would be like banning g
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"That's the reason for Nevada to exist. For corporations to make as much money as they can and pay as little as they can in taxes."
I thought Nevada was a corporate construct created by Amazon because they needed a large regional distribution center in the area?
Does this mean there's some sort of Amazon-Tesla partnership now?
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Tht 1.3 billion is a bit like the estimated losses of record companies due to piracy. Realistically they could probably give Tesla a lower tax break and Tesla would still go there because the land in NV is way cheaper than in CA.
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Whooooshh. False dichotomy. It's not 1.3 billion vs 37 million, it's 37 million plus income taxes, plus property taxes, plus increased economic activity vs $0, because the plant would have been built elsewhere.
You really don't understand how this stuff works.
Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Tesla filled a bunch of otherwise worthless desert with a factory.
The still doesn't justify a special deal. If building a factory in the desert is such a good deal for Nevada, then the tax incentives should be put into law and available to any company that wants to do the same.
The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution mandates equal treatment. Special sweetheart deals should be illegal.
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What makes you think that? Sure, Tesla is deducting taxes from employees for state taxes, but as I understand it, it's keeping that cash too. And I know of no state that collects property taxes, although many have counties that do.
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You might be confused because most counties assess the value of your property and collect the state taxes in that area. I guess technically you're correct because the State doesn't collect the tax directly.
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You're right, I was confused. Nevada does have payroll taxes, but those are directly paid by the company and not withheld from the employee. NV is allowing Tesla to keep several hundred millions in payroll taxes.
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As opposed to pretend zeros in a banks computer.
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Re: Refuse the money unless there are no strings a (Score:1)
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Tesla will do a better job distributing the money (Score:1)
The Nevada politicians cannot complain about this if the agreement from Tesla did not include the specifics of how the money was to be distributed. It is nearly certain that Tesla will do a better job distributing the money than the bureaucrats would, anyway. Tesla is likely to spend the money on computer facilities, basic supplies, and physical improvements. The bureaucrats would pour the money into the general school funds, where the teachers' union would demand most of it and the school sports program
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It is nearly certain that Tesla will do a better job distributing the money than the bureaucrats would, anyway.
The bureaucrats will use it to pad bureaucrat pensions and benefits. I don't know how Telsa will earmark it but I'm 100% certain that whatever Tesla comes up with will indeed be better than that.
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Do you really believe that big business is not full of bureaucrats?
Difference: (Score:1)
Do you really believe that big business is not full of bureaucrats?
Big business is full of bureaucrats... who can be fired.
So inherently even the most incompetent at a big business are about 100% more capable than the average government bureaucrat...
Except at one thing; government officials are miles better at graft.
Re: (Score:2)
I can vote out my government, unlike lets say my ISP. Too many businesses I'm stuck with due to lack of choice, which makes them only responsible to their shareholders, unlike my government who has to go to the polls every 4 years or so, more often if enough people demand it.
Democracy means being able to fire the government, unlike various businesses that due to high entry costs, I'm stuck with.
Wrong Again. (Score:1)
I can vote out my government
We aren't talking about elected officials. We are talking about government bureaucrats. That cannot be voted out.
You can vote for someone who says they will get rid of them - but 99% of the time they are lying. The 1% of the time they were not lying, they find they can actually only get rid of a few at the top most level, the rest of them stay forever and you cannot do anything about it whatsoever.
The rest of your argument I did not read since your central premise was DOA.
Re: (Score:2)
Bureaucrats are appointed by the government, who can fire them. Generally they're good appointments and here the last election, back in October, was mainly about the bureaucrat who was running the pandemic, due to the government letting the bureaucrat run the pandemic, they had a record win, even with people really pissed off at them calling an election during a pandemic.
There's something wrong with your system if citizens don't have a say about bureaucrats, and if your bureaucrats are that crappy, probably
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The same company that doesn't match its employees 401ks, keeps violating OSHA requirements and kept reopening during COVID lockdowns? That's whose judgment you trust? Instead of the people elected to lead the state of Nevada's education department?
Re: Tesla will do a better job distributing the mo (Score:2)
When the other option is the NV dept. of education? Absolutely.
You could probably add a few other horrible things to the list that Tesla isnâ(TM)t doing and the answer may still be âoeyes.â
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Since I listed reasons I don't think Tesla should (besides the ideological ones), have any reasons. Or just "government bad, grr"
Capitalism (Score:3)
there ain't no such thing as a free lunch (Score:2)
The free market at work, even our hallowed political process has a price tag.
TANSTAAFL. Free means zero money changes hands, and that never happens because in the real world people pay Elon Musk to have lunch with him.
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They are more communist than the communist crony companies.
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We operate a unique system of pork and lemon socialism [wikipedia.org]. There are two key goals in our system; keep the money flowing to those with money, and let them pretend they've earned it fairly.
Corruption (Score:2)
They're only upset because they've realized they can't siphon that 40 million into their own little "charities" and "education funds" to skim 80% off the top for themselves.
Maybe, just maybe, Tesla's money is going to be spent on actual education; something the company - and other companies - will benefit from in the long run. The political grifters, well, they only have themselves to blame for eying up Tesla's donations like a personal meal ticket without making sure they were lubing up their own pockets w
MOD UP (Score:2)
They're only upset because they've realized they can't siphon that 40 million into their own little "charities" and "education funds
I came here to post a joke along those lines, but really it is not joke - that is exactly why there are so mad. Using reason and logic as to who should get all that cash? Madness!
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How do you know that it won't all be spent on Musk's education?
Where the money has gone (Score:4, Informative)
This sort of corporate-micromanaged agreement does seem very Musk-like. Regardless, looking at the list of recipients (which is in the linked article), it seems to be responsibly distributed. My only question is why parts of a "K-12" donation are going to university entities such as the Desert Research Institute and the UNLV foundation... perhaps scholarship funding?
From TFA:
Organization Amount received, as of January 2020
Robotics Education and Competition (REC) Foundation $4,868,200
Envirolution $1,416,290
DRI $1,415,081
FIRST Robotics $1,280,781
Jobs for Nevada's Graduates (J4NG) $1,059,852
Sierra Nevada Journeys $810,073
Code.org $761,540
Nevada Museum of Art $680,040
SAE Foundation $625,000
Truckee Meadows Community College Foundation $594,176
Discovery Museum of Northern Nevada $397,887
Solar Rollers - Energetics Education $305,193
Washoe County School District $293,800
Clark County School District $290,000
Roadtrip Nation $276,000
Carson City School District (+Green Schools National Network) $266,250
UNLV Foundation $225,000
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I don't know if UNLV does any of that. But there are plenty of university charities who are organization summer camps for kids, or science fairs, or stuff like that.
DRI also has some K-12 education programs: https://www.dri.edu/education/ [dri.edu]
So maybe that checks out.
Why is this a problem? (Score:2)
Unelected bureaucrats should not be making these decisions. A state department of education should advise and carry out the directions of the Governor and Legislature.
Honestly confused by your point (Score:2)
Strange, when I looked up at your subject it asked "why is this a problem" Are you advocating for Tesla's unelected bureaucrats to make those decisions or are you advocating for the education department (which was elected) to do so? Or are you saying you want the Governor to make the decisions even thought the dept. of education people were elected specifically to do that?
Re: Why is this a problem? (Score:2)
Sadly it is exactly what has always happened.
It is no different from the states that brought in lotteries saying "all the money will go to education".
Sure, the money gets earmarked for education. But whatever amount gets added, the other contributions from taxes are reduced, and the net effect is zero.
The bottom line for education funding is unchanged, but the masses feel better because they "did something".
Given bureaucrats vs. Tesla (Score:2)
I'd rather have Tesla make the choices. The US educational system is sufficiently broken having Tesla make the call is likely wiser.
There's gonna be a lot of Tesla training. (Score:2)
Trickle down wealth (Score:2)
Alternative experiment (Score:2)
If the same tax money Nevada threw away had instead been used to give 4500 citizens $50K a year for the 6 years since the deal was made, to do whatever they liked, how many new businesses would have opened up in Nevada?
Re: (Score:2)
exactly zero.
The plant wouldn't have opened, and there wouldn't have been tax revenue.
That said, I'm quite opposed to this kind of tax break existing. However, no state can unilaterally end it. It really does call for Congress to get involved.
One hint. Who exactly is complaining? (Score:2)
> "To me it's symptomatic of how the state exists -- as an appendage to corporate affairs," said Bob Fulkerson, who heads the Progressive Leadership Alliance of Nevada.
We have a proverb in Poland: "Hit the table and the scissors will speak up". I think that adjective "Progressive" in above sentence explains why Tesla prefers to allocate their money directly. Maybe there is a worry that it might be spend on some "progressive science"?
Thus illustrating the golden rule (Score:2)
He who has the gold makes the rules.