Popular LA Restaurant Closes After High-Tech 'Dine and Dash' Scheme (cbsnews.com) 195
quonset writes: "The Korean Fusion Cafe 'Spoon by H' had the ingredients to become an L.A. success story but is the epitome of a small business, with owner and chef Yoonjin Hwang working 15-hour days to run the restaurant with her mother and brother," reports CBS News. "'We have no staff. We have no cooks. I have to do everything by myself,' said Hwang. 'Like so many other small businesses we were hit hard by the pandemic. All we could do was just like take it day by day and do whatever we could to stay afloat.'" One day she received an order for $700. The person came in and picked up the order. A week later the same person disputed the charge. Hwang had to pay back the money, and this same situation kept occurring time and again. Hwang was the victim of "friendly fraud" or "chargebacks."
"In the scam, a customer orders food, often through a delivery service, then receives their meal, but disputes the charge with their credit card company to get a refund," reports CBS News. "According to the Los Angeles Times, a growing number of the city's restaurants have struggled as scammers take advantage of internet ordering to use fraudulent credit cards or request refunds, claiming they never received part or all of an order." "I just felt so incredibly helpless and frustrated. We just couldn't keep running our business like this," Hwang said. As a result, she decided to close the restaurant for good.
Patrons helped raise more than $60,000 on a GoFundMe page, which Hwang plans to use to pay off her debt. She says she may consider opening a new business someday with the earnings, but she doesn't know when, or what type of business.
"In the scam, a customer orders food, often through a delivery service, then receives their meal, but disputes the charge with their credit card company to get a refund," reports CBS News. "According to the Los Angeles Times, a growing number of the city's restaurants have struggled as scammers take advantage of internet ordering to use fraudulent credit cards or request refunds, claiming they never received part or all of an order." "I just felt so incredibly helpless and frustrated. We just couldn't keep running our business like this," Hwang said. As a result, she decided to close the restaurant for good.
Patrons helped raise more than $60,000 on a GoFundMe page, which Hwang plans to use to pay off her debt. She says she may consider opening a new business someday with the earnings, but she doesn't know when, or what type of business.
Disputes are easy to rectify (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Disputes are easy to rectify (Score:5, Insightful)
- It eats up a fucking TON of time, time that a small family restaurant may not have.
- After a while, the credit card companies simply threaten to blacklist the restaurant.
- Margins for restaurants are razor-thin as it is.
You get them "occasionally", so I'm guessing your industry isn't food service?
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You can't really compare your business to a restaurant because food needs to be delivered in a timely manner otherwise it will get cold and/or go bad. And when the food delivery service provider (Uber Eats, GrubHub, DoorDash, etc.) won't take responsibility for the delivery driver's tardiness and ineptitude, the buyer will dispute the charge through their credit card issuer.
I'm going to presume the type of products your IT business sells doesn't go bad within a couple hours?
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I've encountered all kinds of problems with such delivery services. Many of the drivers are utterly inept and unable to follow basic instructions, and contactless deliveries can make things worse. I've had someone else's delivery left outside my door, and my delivery has failed to turn up several times (likely left outside someone else's door). In one instance the driver actually took a photo of where he left it, and you could clearly see the number on the door did not match the delivery address.
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The last time this mistaken delivery happened to me, i typo'd the street number. The driver figured it out, the number didn't exist. If the number had been real, I would still be hungry.
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I'll also presume that the person delivering your products won't eat/drink some of it?
Re:Disputes are easy to rectify (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean, you can also try to change the business models you have to adhere to. I'm not sure how you think that the restaurant will be able to impose CC chip reading on DoorDash, etc.
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If it were DoorDash etc wouldn't the reverse charge hit DoorDash rather than the restaurant?
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My suspicion here is that you haven't managed a restaurant in years, certainly aren't currently doing so, and your perspective is meaningless because you haven't kept up with the changes in the industry.
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I get them occasionally for my business. I usually provide signature receipts, digital info (IP Addresses and account info) as well as documentation of delivery. Once there was a fraudulent credit card transaction, but we stuck it to the payment processor, as they authorized the charge. Had to fight that one. Not sure what this restaurant did, but it shouldnâ(TM)t be that hard to fight. Maybe they turned off address verification or donâ(TM)t take CVV codes.
You must have missed the part where the summary says the order was placed through a delivery service. Your business must not be a restaurant.
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The restaurant will not be able to show any evidence at all that the products charged for were actually delivered.
Thats the end of it.
I, the customer, am saying I did not receive what I paid for, and therefore Mr Credit Card Company, your legal obligation at this moment is to remove the charge from my bill. Not joking about this being a legal obligation.
Now, perhaps Mr Credit Card Company decided to eat the cost, for insta
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Most delivery companies offer some proof of delivery; photos, signatures less often, GPS tracking. MOST interesting to me, the card holder disputed days later. For me, if I'm the card issuer, that delay speaks volumes. It's not non-delivery, no immediate complaint or re-order. If it's dissatisfaction, well, the long knives come out by everyone. Judgement call usually.
But if I were opening a restaurant, I would look for a processor that has much experience in this, NEVER rely on the delivery 'partners', they
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It depends a great deal on the delivery service. A reputable one with a national reputation has hopefully learned some lessons about when to fight the paperwork, and when to ust write it off, and manages to stay in business. My starup delivery service, among the dozens per city invented during the dotcom, tended not to pass along the payments to the restaurants and went bust pretty fast.
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Time spent this way for a small business is _very_ expensive. It also makes it very difficult to cook the books, which is startlingly common place for small restaurants with loans and family income struggles.
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Now then, behave. There is no need to be suggesting accounting fraud by the restauranteur.
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How would this help in the case of them saying that the order was incomplete? They probably can't prove that the Uber Eats delivery driver didn't swipe some for himself, or that they didn't forget to put mushrooms in the soup.
It's a problem specific to online food delivery services, particularly where the delivery driver is not working for the restaurant.
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Re:Disputes are easy to rectify (Score:4, Insightful)
Fraud is not a new thing, but a lot of platforms taking advantage of the internet need a lot of work to handle fraud.
This is just anecdotally. I recently started doing online grocery pickup.
- I select the items online
- I pay online
- I go to the store to pickup
- There is no process in place. I literally just go to a special section. Open doors without any codes or anything and pickup my 10 bags of groceries.
So far, there hasn't been a problem. Yet, if there is fraud or theft, I don't know what they'd do. I could take my groceries then come back for a second pickup and play stupid, and get another set of groceries for free. Or a thief could just grab items.
Another thing just happened this weekend where I had to take my kid to get a haircut. We use Great Clips, and we tend to use online checkin and normally there's like a 30 minute wait or something. This time EVERY single local Great Clips had like a 2-3 hour wait. I thought maybe it's a pandemic haircut rush, but it still seemed weird.
Anyways, went shopping and just decided to pop in to a Great Clips to see if we could sneak in walk-in. We got an appointment right away. Apparently most of the online checkin's weren't showing up for their appointments. To me, that suggests fraud, possibly by a competitor, fake checking in people cause you don't get that kind of mass appointment missing booking on mass.
Things just aren't secured properly and yeah we can count on the big firms to just eat the fraud loss. But it's showing cracks especially when things are often so disjoint and anonymous.
I'm not too familiar with ubereats backend, but if what I read here is true, it's kind of insane that they handle everything, but the restaurant is on the hook even though they have no insight. We're a pretty regulated society and the government might want to step in here. Once UberEats does the pickup, it should be off the restaurant's hands. Or mandate 2FA to reduce 'fraud'. I don't know.
Don't get me wrong, the restaurant still has some responsibility. I've had to make one claim when my order was missing some items. They were super quick about the adjustment to my account.
Re:Disputes are easy to rectify (Score:4, Informative)
If the order was picked up in person, all you have to do is chip the card. Presto, the merchant is protected. That was the whole point of the chips -- they can't be duplicated so they serve as proof the real card was used in person.
Re:Disputes are easy to rectify (Score:5, Informative)
To clarify: with the 2015 EMV liability shift, the merchant is largely off the hook for fraudulent transactions IF the card's chip reader was used in person. He still gets paid because liability falls on the card issuer's bank. So if your customer collects the goods in person and you don't have them put their card in the chip reader, shame on you.
Re: Disputes are easy to rectify (Score:4, Informative)
These were orders taken by delivery services...not in-person pick-ups.
The solution would be for the delivery service to take the CC payment and then use THEIR card, with a chip, in person to pay for the food.
The delivery service would have to verify the order or get stuck with loss rather than the vendor. They can use a chip reader (Square offers one) to verify the delivery.
In store dining? Chip or cash.
Take-out...cash only unless you can prove the order was complete ... signature and chip might cover them.
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These were orders taken by delivery services...not in-person pick-ups.
If the delivery address matches the billing address for the CC, they would likely win a chargeback dispute.
Often, all that is needed is for the zipcode to match.
I used to work for a company that did a lot of mail orders. Most were about $30 and not worth disputing. But for bigger orders, we would fight and usually win.
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Zip code matches don't work like that.
If your card issuer is doing it right, they will give you, the merchant, details on whether the card holder name and certain details match - in most cases this is part of the credit authorization process. Zip code in this context refers to the card holder's billing zip code.
For deliveries, though, a merchant should be offering that delivery address. If that matches, then in dispute delivery to the billing address should limit grounds for a chargeback to either a stolen
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Do too many of them and your payment processor will ding you
If you're small, you get dinged every time. I had someone click pay 4 times on a single payment and all 4 payments went through. I saw it and refunded the duplicates right away. The next day, I got chargebacks for all 4 of those payments - even the intended one. $30 processing fee for each one. And during the dispute, the money got taken out TWICE - once for the refund and once for the chargeback.
Re:Disputes are easy to rectify (Score:5, Insightful)
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Assuming this isn't a case of mass incompetence on the part of the restaurant and just rolling over and taking the chargebacks without putting up a fight. Then it sounds like they cheaped out and are using magnetic strip readers still. The liability would be on them if they were.
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Your word against mine, customer is always right.
The store is the bank's customer, and a more important one at that. If you think "your word vs mine" will cause you to win you're incredibly nieve.
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'get what I paid for'
Trigger words.
Did you actually get it delivered? Ding on you.
Did you get the goods or services the merchant said they would deliver? Ding on you.
Were you dissatisfied, in quality, quantity, delivery, or suitability? I'm betting you did not make that explicitly clear. And for that you might lose.
Examples:
Your ocean view hotel room gives you a sliver of ocean out the bathroom. Marginally false description, equally dissatisfaction, 50-50.
Your new sleepwear set is a different color than you
Stop accepting 700.00 orders? (Score:4, Interesting)
-Cash is king.
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I have $1000 here for you. Do you want me to fax it to you or email you a picture of it? And will either case help you any further?
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Re:Stop accepting 700.00 orders? (Score:4, Interesting)
Just. Require. Cash. Don't take some phone app funny money.
That's a sure-fire way to lose most of your customers.
I do wonder if they could just say "first-person orders only" - no GrubHub, Uber Eats, etc.
It works if food is good (Score:2)
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I've heard that cash businesses do that to avoid reporting income tax. CC receipts are easy to audit. Cash, not so much.
Seems ripe for a class-action lawsuit against the delivery company intermediaries, though.
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And sales tax. I can confirm it: there are some very sketchy all-night places or very late places, I've needed food at when working at a job site until the night-time deployment was complete, and being in desperate need of food with some protein in it.
Re:It works if food is good (Score:4, Insightful)
Pretty much this...
Handling cash does not keep costs low, the transaction fees with electronic payment methods are not especially high. Credit cards typically have the highest fees, there are also debit cards with lower fees and various other mobile electronic payment methods these days.
On the other hand, handling cash can be expensive - banks do not provide cash depositing facilities for free, nor do they provide change for free. You have to pay to deposit your cash, pay to acquire change for the customers, incur additional expenses keeping track of payments, pay and/or incur the risk of transporting your takings to the bank, incur the increased risk of robbery when you have cash onsite and incur the costs to reduce those risks, handle errors like incorrect change, deal with employee theft by accepting the costs or implementing ways to prevent it, deal with the risks of fake cash etc.
Taking cash is expensive compared to the fees for accepting cards or electronic payments. But if you're avoiding paying taxes, not declaring sales, paying employees or suppliers cash in hand etc, the savings from tax evasion can easily exceed the costs of cash.
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Just. Require. Cash. Don't take some phone app funny money.
That's a sure-fire way to lose most of your customers.
I do wonder if they could just say "first-person orders only" - no GrubHub, Uber Eats, etc.
Most of these small restaurants don't have the infrastructure or the technical know how to run a sales based website. GrubHub/Uber Eats/DoorDash/etc make it very easy for the restaurant to put that together without much know how, but then they're locked in with those services.
The worst part (from my limited understanding) is that with that system in place, those services take a cut of EVERY sale handled by the site, not just the ones that they deliver...
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Great during lockdown, after placing a few orders you run out of cash and can't order anymore food, or have to break the lockdown rules to acquire more - assuming banks are open or ATMs are being refilled. Then the delivery driver has to handle lots of potentially virus infested cash, as well as carry change and count it out during each delivery and wait while the customer also counts it to confirm. This also makes delivery drivers much more of a target for theft as they will be carrying cash.
As the custome
Comment removed (Score:3)
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LOL you're implying that cash fraud isn't a thing? Sorry kiddo but the dishonesty wasn't invented with the credit card.
There's nothing dishonest here for the vendor. If they can provide proof of purchase and pickup then their liability ends. The problem isn't cash vs digital, the problem is a fraudster exploiting a loophole of blame.
Fix the loophole, and ban the fraudster.
And on the flip side maybe Americans should stop fetishising the credit card and just use debit instead. In the past year I've probably u
Re:Cashless equals greater risk (Score:4, Insightful)
And on the flip side maybe Americans should stop fetishising the credit card and just use debit instead. In the past year I've probably used cash twice, and my credit card once.
Why would I, as a consumer, use a debit card that's directly linked to my bank account? If I do that, then a fraudster can use as much money as is in said account, and then I have to wait for days or weeks even for that money to be put back, when with a credit card, when fraud is found, I'm not liable for paying for it period and can go back to using that card within a couple days max.
I believe you're trying to say Americans need to live more within their means, in which case a credit card is not a bad thing at all, as long as you pay it off in full every month (like I've been doing for...15 years?). Additionally, I get rewards for using the credit card (depending on which card, cash back/credit on statement, miles for flying, etc) whereas a debit I get nothing.
Fraud is not friendly (Score:5, Insightful)
It's fraud, plain and simple. I don't know where the name "friendly fraud" came from but there's nothing friendly about it. Unfortunately, there's probably nothing the restaurant will be able to do about it, as the police are not going to waste their time on this.
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It's fraud, plain and simple. I don't know where the name "friendly fraud" came from but there's nothing friendly about it. Unfortunately, there's probably nothing the restaurant will be able to do about it, as the police are not going to waste their time on this.
If I recall correctly, Los Angeles will not prosecute theft crimes of $500 or less. Theft of $950 or less is a misdemeanor thanks to Prop 47.
I doubt the Police in L.A. have time for misdemeanors...
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If you run a business read the contracts you sign. If you can't afford loosing the payment don't take the risk. Most CC contracts guarantee payment provided the card is swiped and the signature verified or a PIN is entered.
"Friendly Fraud" (Score:5, Insightful)
Something is ridiculously wrong here. Maybe their payment processor just threw them under the bus due to incompetence but restaurants don't normally get put out of business by chargebacks. For one thing you can't just keep filing chargebacks on your card. They cost your credit card company a lot of money to process and adjudicate. Do more than a few a month and unless you're Bill Gates they're canceling your card. Online fraud can be a problem if you ship goods, but there are ways around that too.
I suspect there's more than is being let on here.
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A few a month? Seems like if you were doing that many you were extremely unlucky in your choice of vendors... Or scamming them.
A few a month could easily be thousands of dollars of stuff over a year, all for free.
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Wouldn't it actually be a ratio of chargeback value to total charges?
If I'm running $20k a month through my credit card, how likely are they to gripe about chargebacks totaling $200 per month? That's only 1% of my total transaction volume.
My guess is that if you stay at or below 1-3% of your transaction total in chargebacks they won't flinch, especially if your monthly transaction total is over $2k.
Good point (Score:2)
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Something is ridiculously wrong here. Maybe their payment processor just threw them under the bus due to incompetence but restaurants don't normally get put out of business by chargebacks. For one thing you can't just keep filing chargebacks on your card. They cost your credit card company a lot of money to process and adjudicate. Do more than a few a month and unless you're Bill Gates they're canceling your card. Online fraud can be a problem if you ship goods, but there are ways around that too.
I suspect there's more than is being let on here.
Yeah, doesn't really add up... most of the time if you're perpetrating CC fraud, you want to come away with an item you can easily sell to actually get cash out of it. Ordering food makes no sense unless you're actually going to eat $700 worth of food in the next few days.
The only thing I can think of is someone intentionally trying to drive them out of business.
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"Friendly fraud" isn't supposed to diminish the damage of the fraud, it's supposed to indicate the type. See also "affinity fraud" or the many other subcategories.
Who carries the risk? (Score:2)
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Once upon a time DoorDash' TOS offloaded much of the risk to the restaurant. And there are websites dedicate to not paying Door Dash: https://donotpay.com/learn/doo... [donotpay.com]
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From the do not pay page:
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And that is why as a restaurant owner you don't accept door dash.
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Ah, but that conflicts with Door Dash's business plan of "money in, no money out".
Re:Who carries the risk? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody pays the restaurant. DoorDash and the like deliberately arrange it so the restaurant is responsible for any chargebacks, while the restaurant has no control over the delivery. The sensible thing for any restaurant to do would be to insist on contract terms making the delivery service responsible for any refunds after their driver picked up the order, but if you ask that of DoorDash or UberEats or GrubHub they'll laugh in your face.
Just one of many reasons it's a bad idea to do business with a company whose business model is to be the middleman who collects the money but isn't responsible for the service.
They insert themselves (Score:5, Interesting)
GrubHub actively uses their SEO optimization to make their proxy numbers hit before the restaurants' in Google, and then charges a huge fee or they won't connect them through. I don't know how it is legal.
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GrubHub actively uses their SEO optimization
One could say they are doubly optimised :-)
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Actually, if this sort of behavior is putting local businesses out of business, the sensible thing to do might be to push for a city ordnance that forbids the door dash type of businesses from operating in the city limits unless they DO take on the liability if the restaurant has evidence the food was picked up. Seems like that would be a relatively easy thing to get through, since you have a big national company preying on the city's economy.
Where is the police? (Score:3)
Why didn't she file a report to the police? Since all transactions were credit card charge backs, it will be trivial to find out all the people who did this and put them in a file. If enough of them do this multiple times, it would be possible for the police to prosecute them for fraud.
Small crimes like these create a low trust society. When people cannot trust each other when doing business, it increases the overhead of doing business and that hurts small businesses and poor people the most as they have the least ability to cover the overhead.
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You really think the uber-progressive LA DA is interested in helping a asian-american business?
Re:Where is the police? (Score:5, Insightful)
You really think the uber-progressive LA DA is interested in helping a asian-american business?
Just pointing out the elephant in the room, i.e., the US is a low trust society, people had to waste resources to protect themselves from each other. While state power, funded by tax dollars, went to protect those who had the most resources and already most able to afford protection.
In a more civilized country, the restaurant owner could have filed a report to the police, and the charge back would very likely be reversed after the police investigated, a few of these people might even be caught redhanded. Then the restaurant would still be in business, and good samaritans could use those $60k to help some other people.
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Here, you think a civilized society will have the resources to investigate them. Dare I suggest that any society with the spare police resources to investigate chargebacks, either has way too much police, or a itty bitty little economy pretending to be "civilized" but actually living off the scraps of others.
Re:Where is the police? (Score:5, Insightful)
There are probably 5000 chargebacks a day originating in the greater LA area alone.
Here, you think a civilized society will have the resources to investigate them. Dare I suggest that any society with the spare police resources to investigate chargebacks, either has way too much police, or a itty bitty little economy pretending to be "civilized" but actually living off the scraps of others.
So are you saying all 5000 of them were fraud of the "Dine and Dash" nature? If so, then yes, ALL of them should be investigated. If the police don't have the manpower to do so, then either hire more police, or simply stop allow credit card charge back.
You are living in a broken windows neighborhood, where all windows were broken and you think that no society can afford to have all windows whole. When the fact is having broken windows unprosecuted is an invitation for more vandals to come to break even more windows. The situation became so bad because no one acted while the problem was small.
In this case, the "Dine and dash"ers eventually caused the restaurant out of business because police won't go and investigate when the first few cases happened and put a stop to it.
You may think the law of the jungle, where everyone have to fend for themselves, is universal. Fortunately, civilized countries do have police that actually investigate crimes and keep order in society. Too bad yours isn't one of those.
Re: Where is the police? (Score:2)
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By "low trust", I meant in the sense Schneier explained in "Trust and Society" https://www.schneier.com/essay... [schneier.com]
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Compared to earlier times USA is becoming a lower trust society. Compared to 1980s, or 1960s ...
But for real examples of low trust societies you need to step out and see rest of the world. I can only speak of first hand experience from India. But situation is similar in most other countries of that level of development and law enforcement.
In India, "goods once sold can not be returned". No bank, or govt service is possible without
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the US is a low trust society ...In a more civilized country, the restaurant owner could have filed a report to the police, and the charge back would very likely be reversed after the police investigated, a few of these people might even be caught redhanded.
You consider that an example of a "high trust" society? In a high trust society you don't need police.
Isn't there an app for this yet? (Score:2)
As fucked up as all the credit reporting agencies are, ia credit rating is at least some metric. If some enterprising entity wanted to improve the rate of positive outcomes by providing tools to predict people's propensity for fra
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First off, this kind of shit is one of the reasons credit reporting agencies sprang into existence and continue to exist. They offer some tools to help people/businesses figure out whether they should offer goods or services to a potential buyer based on their past performance.
So, are you suggesting that a family business should look up someone's credit history every time they receive a takeout order?
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My guess is that the reality is that there are just so many "credit" transactions that even with credit scoring and other algorithms there's a huge grey area where it's difficult to evaluate any one single transaction as good or bad or even make much of a decision about a specific creditor unless they are *totally* good or *totally bad*.
Commerce depends on the broad grey middle to conduct business and the signal to noise ratio makes it hard to understand who's cheating and who's not. In many ways the credi
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Not sure how this works in the US, but in the UK, the credit card companies have it stacked against you (and this in a country with a lot more protections than the US).
First up, you can't take credit card details yourself unless you're PCI/DSS or whatever, so that means you're using some sort of middleman. The middleman won't let you see any of the credit card details, or even the address used for payment details. All you get is the order, the delivery address and a "yes or no" from the middleman. If they s
systemic problems with accepting credit cards (Score:5, Insightful)
The issue here is that anyone can request and obtain a refund on Visa/Mastercard/Amex/Discover card networks for a full four months after placing their order, no questions asked. The merchant eats the stolen money, the $35 chargeback fee, and the merchant network fees. I run several businesses and we stopped accepting credit cards, and moved to 100% ACH for domestic US customers, and then we only accept credit cards for non-US customers. The huge difference with ACH is that most banks consider an ACH payment the same as writing a check, which has a three day window of cancellation. After that, there is no chargeback, generally. But in all situations, get as much data as you can from the customer -- signed order receipt, emailed confirmation, IP address, even picture of drivers license. Our chargeback rates have dropped about 10x less since we have implemented these changes, and no loss in revenue.
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We've had digital transactions for years, no more cash, no signatures, no checks. 90% plus transactions are either a chip and pin card payment, or use your phone (GPay/Apple Pay etc).
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But in all situations, get as much data as you can from the customer -- signed order receipt, emailed confirmation, IP address, even picture of drivers license.
Unless you're a very reputable business, I will be giving you as little of my data as possible. Who's to say you won't open a couple of new credit lines under my name? And even if you were trustworthy, are 100% of your current and future employees trustworthy? I'm sure there are other places selling whatever it is you're selling that also takes credit cards or Paypal.
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Not so much a credit card process but rather systematically the financial system in the USA is FUBAR. Fraudulent chargebacks don't happen very often in much of the rest of the world because there are actual negative consequences of doing them along with a burden of proof for doing a chargeback. Mind you the rest of the world also doesn't rely on credit cards where simple bank transfer works. Many people in Europe simply don't even have credit cards, and if they do, they find they aren't accepted anywhere.
He
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A case for crypto? (Score:2)
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I suspect the "Scammers" are just customers . (Score:2)
I've done the chargebacks a few times, but its always justified. I add as a standard note on all orders that if the order can't be fullfilled, either cancel it or contact me to confirm what the substitution is. But I still get vendors just straight up delivering the wrong items with a note saying something. like "We where out of coffee so heres a coke instead". Or worse not even sending the meal, but just the extras (ie no burger, but still the chips and drink). So I dispute the fee. If you cant deliver the
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Well, everybody is a victim these days. It often it hard to sort out what really happened. If the situation you describe is what happened here, then the problem was on the side of the merchant. But it may not be and it may even be a mix of things.
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I've done the chargebacks a few times, but its always justified. I add as a standard note on all orders that if the order can't be fullfilled, either cancel it or contact me to confirm what the substitution is. But I still get vendors just straight up delivering the wrong items with a note saying something. like "We where out of coffee so heres a coke instead". Or worse not even sending the meal, but just the extras (ie no burger, but still the chips and drink). So I dispute the fee. If you cant deliver the product dont accept the money.
Thats not "scamming", thatss insisting on your consumers rights. If vendors find it hard to deal with it, then don't advertise a product you can't deliver.
So if you do dispute the charge on the entire order, what do you do with it? Hint: If you eat it, you're scamming scum, too.
funny how this never happens with cash (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Misnomer (Score:2)
Ain't nothing "friendly" about that fraud.
And having not carefully RTFA... (Score:2)
I missed these nuggets:
"One day she received an order for $700. The person came in and picked up the order."
So it isn't non-delivery.
"A week later the same person disputed the charge."
A week later? Not obvious dissatisfaction, I think. I agree with TFA assessment, scam on the face of it, not knowing other details.
Sad, the merchant deserved somewhat better.
Re: (Score:2)
That could be slander, libel, or other very expensive mistakes. It's also probably very racial. Publicly accusing or prosecuting more people of a particular race, even when they are far mor often guilty, can be a political disaster.
Re: (Score:2)
That could be slander, libel, or other very expensive mistakes.
Not slander if it's true and you upload proof.
It's also probably very racial.
Ordering $700 and then declining charges is about the whitest come I can think of, it's OK to discriminate or harass white people.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, my. First, there are bound to be errors in in any automatic or general reporting of "dine and dash". Second, it's also possible to lose a lawsuit even when you're completely in the right in court, and it can be quite expensive. Third, if it's written, it's libel. Fourth, credit card fraud and identity theft are widespread, and some cancellations are undoubtedly legitimate.
Even more importantly, printing people's personal information this way gets into privacy issues which will concern credit card handle
Re:Name and Shame (Score:4, Interesting)
It's a DoorDash order. The restaurant doesn't know any of the names, address or CC number. And DoorDash doesn't pay for it so they don't care.
Re: (Score:2)
Out of curiousity, how does a restaurant charge someone's card in a cardholder not present transaction without knowing the name, address and card number?
Re: (Score:3)
Technically wouldn't that make you a rice-ist?
Re: Typical Biden supporters (Score:2)
Typical ACs all the way down.
Re: Typical Biden supporters (Score:2)
Shit, now I gotta order some popcorn off taobao. You bastard.