Foxconn Mostly Abandons $10 Billion Wisconsin Project (reuters.com) 118
Hmmmmmm writes: Taiwan electronics manufacturer Foxconn is drastically scaling back a planned $10 billion factory in Wisconsin, confirming its retreat from a project that former U.S. President Donald Trump once called "the eighth wonder of the world." Under a deal with the state of Wisconsin announced on Tuesday, Foxconn will reduce its planned investment to $672 million from $10 billion and cut the number of new jobs to 1,454 from 13,000. The Foxconn-Wisconsin deal was first announced to great fanfare at the White House in July 2017, with Trump boasting of it as an example of how his "America first" agenda could revive U.S. tech manufacturing. For Foxconn, the investment promise was an opportunity for its charismatic founder and then-chairman, Terry Gou, to build goodwill at a moment when Trump's trade policies threatened the company's cash cow: building Apple's iPhones in China for export to America.
Surprising exactly nobody (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Surprising exactly nobody (Score:4, Insightful)
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For Foxconn, the investment promise was an opportunity for its charismatic founder and then-chairman, Terry Gou, to build goodwill at a moment when Trump's trade policies threatened the company's cash cow: building Apple's iPhones in China for export to America.
Yup, a very smart move for Foxconn, and a way to ensure they don't become the next Huawei: Give the toddler-in-chief something he can praise himself about and the promise of something shiny and you're all set.
Trump boasting of it.. (Score:3)
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Eighth Blunder of the World. The cancelled factory is also a blunder.
Re: Trump boasting of it.. (Score:2)
Yeah, that's hilarious. The rest of it makes me feel bad for the citizens of Wisconsin who got duped into believing this was actually going to happen.
On the other hand, it's absurd to accept such grandiose promises from any elected official, or to think a company would choose to manufacture in the US when it's much better for their bottom line to manufacture elsewhere.
Wisconsin (Score:3)
That's why Trump lost in Wisconsin.
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Why not make chips where there is water? (Score:2)
In light of TSMC Taiwan cutting production due to a drought, why are Taiwan and Intel building chip fabs in Arizona, where the water outlook is bad and getting worse, instead of somewhere there is no forecast shortage of water?
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because they dont care about that they just care about tax breaks and cheap labour availability.
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Because Arizona has been under a drought for decades, recycles water and monitors companies for compliance with dumping laws that has allowed them to use less water with more people over the past decades
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There may not be water, but there's plenty of silicon in a desert!
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Always seemed rather suspect (Score:2)
Foxconn was going to build parts for things not built in the US. How was that supposed to work, design-wise?
If you're going to build display panels, they need to be assembled somewhere, but the plan didn't cover that part. They'd mostly need to be sent to China for integration, then back here as products.
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That assumes a level of forethought and insight not usually associated with "Republicans," and only rarely seen in "Democrats" for that matter.
That's fine. (Score:2)
Looking at their production lineup for the plant, they were only slated to make, let's see:
Mirrors
Smoke
Well, perhaps that's just an initial lineup - but it's consistent with the goals of the shared strategy between Trump and them.
But hey - $10 billion on paper, right? That would have been amazing, I'm sure. Just so much numbers. Such a loss.
Just as bad as all those other proposed plants for other companies that ended up never being built for previous administrations, when it ended up not making sense to
To get the truth ... (Score:2, Insightful)
To get to the truth on a Trump statement, all you have to do is negate it.
E.g., "eight wonder of the world," means, "a total sham that will be soon forgotten."
Try it. Whenever he opens his mouth, just pretend that it is Opposite Day. Works remarkably well.
confirmation bias on display (Score:1)
we're all chumps being played, and many here like to brag about how their particular shit sandwich tastes the best, like it's some great victory to exchange one flavor of shit for another.... never even considering the option of where gov't intrusion is to be reduced, not extended, and expected to solve problems it's the least suited to do
many times the best solution is to substract, not add, but that doesn't ever seem to be an option with gov't and politics
Bragging bs (Score:2)
Fairly close... (Score:3, Interesting)
I live fairly close (within an hour's drive) to the Wis Foxed & Conned plant. I have to say the superlatives are great...
It's big - Really BIG!
It's shiny - There's a huge electrical switchyard and giant metal globe off of Hwy H.
It's empty - as in, not a car to be seen.
It's also several miles towards Lake Michigan... well away from the prying eyes of people driving past on I-94. Unlike Amazon and Uline in the area. I mean, Jeff Bezos and Liz Uihlein are quirky and at opposite ends of the political spectrum, but both had the business sense to build their buildings were people could A) see the buildings from the highway, and B) see the cars parked in the parking lots. Cars = People = Jobs Created! It also makes it much more convenient for trucks to get on and off the highway. And Foxed Conned is too far west to leverage the two major rail lines that run N-S through the area.
In short - a stupid place to build the plant - unless you don't want folks to see what's going on without them actually having to make a point of trying to see what's going on.
Glad that Walker is is out of the Gov. mansion. Can't wait to get some more of the Retardican clowns out of Madison as well. I'm center-left and understand that there needs to be a balance between the Retardicans and the Dummycrats. That neither has the market cornered on actual honestly good ideas nor stupidity. Both tend to be short on the first and long on the second.
To be clear.... (Score:5, Interesting)
...aside from relatively trivial local road/infrastructure improvements (which were ultimately going to be on the docket for the region anyway sooner or later) the "big government payout" here was /future tax breaks/ meaning it ultimately cost WI basically nothing.
Foxconn doesn't show up (which seems to be true here), they don't make anything which means they don't really see a dime. Seems to be a fairly reasonable way to offer state assistance - if the beneficiary doesn't provide the jobs/business, the state loses nothing.
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Don't try to muddy the issue with facts and logic.
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Which is a pretty normal capital bonding project for a community that size.
The bought up land, they still own.
The sewer, water, and infrastructure were - exactly as I said - investments that while they didn't result in FOXCONN bringing in a factory, are now available for whomever else wants to bring in a factory. It's not lost investment, it arguably makes it easier to attract some other business for which nobody will have to offer tax rebates, etc.
Even if true, 40% of $190 million is barely a blip in stat
Seems fair (Score:3)
Jobs go from 13.000 to 1.454 that's a 8,94x reduction
Investment goes from U$D 10.000.000.000,oo to U$D 672.000.000,oo that's a 14, 88x reduction
Wisconsin Tax Credits go from U$D 2.850.000.000,oo to U$D 80.000.000,oo, that's a 35,62x reduction.
There are other reductions from Winsconsin's expenditures.
So, state tax credits reduced 35,62 fold, while jobs only diminish 8.94 fold and foxconn investment diminishes only 14,88-fold?
That seems like a very good move for winsconsin's taxpayers...
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Not if you count the money they already spent upgrading infrastructure in anticipation of a huge factory.
Wisconsin, how much did this cost the tax payers * (Score:1)
LOL, I repeat: LOL (Score:2)
Another fabulous win for the Gropenfuhrer.
I can't wait to hear the FOX-tards blame this on Biden.
Hannity: "Obviously Biden traveled back in time and sabotaged the deal."
Gutfeld: "Why doesn't Biden share his time-travel powers with patriotic Americans? Is it because he hates America?"
Jeanine Pirro: "Bidren...hic...made thuh....hic...commies! transsexual terrorism!...hic...stop the time-traveling election stealer!"
Or it was the Deep State, you know how sneaky they are!
Another fucking Republican boondoggle, as
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1500 new jobs. How many have you created?
For $10 Billion I could create a shitload more than 1500 jobs, that's for damn sure.
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1500 new jobs. How many have you created?
For $10 Billion I could create a shitload more than 1500 jobs, that's for damn sure.
So none then. Have you ever noticed how quarterbacking is so much easier when sitting in an armchair?
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So none then. Have you ever noticed how quarterbacking is so much easier when sitting in an armchair?
Have you ever noticed how people try to avoid admitting failure by talking about "quarterbacking" and other such horseshit?
Mostly peaceful (Score:1)
Who profits? (Score:1)
yuytyutyut (Score:1)
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- Free money stops under Biden's watch
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Re:Let me guess... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Your selective hearing has progressed to deafness. Democrats give free money to corporations as well.
Gee, its almost like both parties are controlled by large corporate donations and the spin they put on their anti-citizen actions is just propaganda and bluster.
Almost...
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Once again, its not your money. The government doesn't "give money" to people through tax reductions. Instead, it steals less.
Sorry about Foxconn, but I guess the issue was, perhaps, if Trump supporters and BLM activists decided to hit the books and learn how to do something useful, instead of begging the Feds for crap, they'd all be better off.
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wtf is wrong with you? seriously, you setup a whole series of strawmen and lies in order to what? feel good about yourself?
pathetic.
Re: Let me guess... (Score:2)
It's all they have left. Their orange god failed, leaving them stuck with deficits of both moral and fiscal authority.
Re: Let me guess... (Score:1)
Re: Let me guess... (Score:2)
Re:Let me guess... (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump gets snookered into signing a disadvantageous deal and bombastically brags about what a great deal maker it is
Company barely follows through on the deal, since it makes little economics sense. They do the bare minimum to satisfy Trump's need for propaganda and photo ops
Eventually, company formally announces deal is off when there is no longer a Trump to snooker.
This is a story of a naive President trying to make "deals" with companies that appeal to his base but ends up well out of his depth in the game of international chess. He got had by a corporation.
Re:Let me guess... (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed. Trump fucked this up. The steam of failure started pretty much with the bombastic lies he told about this project. Here are a few /. stories from 2019, where, e.g. the limit to 1500 jobs was already known:
https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
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Re:Let me guess... (Score:5, Informative)
Trump gets snookered into signing a disadvantageous deal and bombastically brags about what a great deal maker it is
To be fair, Trump never signed anything. The idiot behind this deal was Scott Walker.
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Trump gets snookered into signing a disadvantageous deal and bombastically brags about what a great deal maker it is
To be fair, Trump never signed anything. The idiot behind this deal was Scott Walker.
Trump got publicity,
Foxconn got money,
Wisconsin taxpayers were left holding the bag and
Scott Walker got booted from office,.
Considering that Trump only cares about himself, I would consider this one a win for him.
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Trump is always a cheerleader, this means he can always deny stuff later. If you asked him how he was going to fix the economy he would point to Foxconn and other "deals" he made, even when he wasn't really involved beyond shaking hands and having photo ops. If Foxconn deal *had* worked out, do not doubt that Trump would have taken 100% personal credit for it.
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what I dont get is a Taiwan company manufacturing in china, given the recent and growing global threats china has made toward Taiwan. If things keep going the way they are, first I suspect china will seize that factory, and try to broker deals with Apple as well as others, so we can see just how bad our american companies surrender to the mighty dollar above all forms of morality or sense of right and wrong. Then as things heat up further I suspect china will embargo Taiwan to force a surrender possibly eve
Re:Let me guess... (Score:4, Interesting)
That makes some sense at the corporate level if you don't see your existing Taiwan presence as some kind of critical anchor.
But expanding in China might make a lot more political sense for Taiwan and/or Taiwanese businesses if they're trying to project a "we can work together" kind of mindset.
Plus there's the generally lower barriers involved when investing in a country that's close, shares a language and culture and so on, vs. a bunch of Wisco cheese heads.
Even China decides to invade, I'd rather be the Taiwanese businessman who played ball with the CPC, not the one trying to end-around China.
There's also the idea that China might decide that a high level of economic integration and some nominal public political concessions is just less headache than continuous sabre rattling and/or a very painful military situation.
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The case for CN manufacturing has both pros and cons. On the one hand costs are much lower in CN than TW.
On the other hand CN's CPP recognizes no international IP rights and will use whatever it can steal, reverse engineer or buy.
If Foxconn wants a secure manufacturing base it must do so anywhere but CN (or TW). Bottom-line is that if the CPP ever were
to interfere with TW there would be a complete and world-wide boycott o
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Perhaps because peaceful cooperation and millions of jobs in China depending on Taiwan companies mean that military confrontation is less likely.
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It's like South Korean animation studious in North Korea, but on a scale.
Investment from Hong Kong and Taiwan poured into Mainland to such an extent past 20 years there wouldn't really be a modern china without it. Poor, and thus more communist china would be a china far more keen to press the territorial claim.
As for getting nationalized, you can nationalize heavy industries and natural resources, but not high technology, as biggest value in there is people and money, whereas high-tech manufacturing line y
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Did Trump sign something? I thought this was a deal between FoxConn and Wisconsin. At best, Trump was a midwife.
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Re:Let me guess... (Score:5, Informative)
The con artist never signed anything (he only signs NDAs in a fake name when having affairs). He did, however, lavish praise on the sycophant Walker who was governor at the time and who never saw a tax dollar he didn't want to spend.
In fact, the con artist said if it wasn't for him, Foxconn wouldn't even have considered building in the U.S. [madison.com]
"Everybody wanted Foxconn," Trump said. "Frankly, they weren't going to come to this country. I hate to say it, if I didn't get elected, they wouldn't be in this country. They would not have done this in this country. I think you know that very well."
So quite obviously this whole deal was on the con artist. He even said so.
It might be simpler to create a list (Score:2)
of projects trump praised himself for that actually did work. It will be a lot shorter than cataloguing all the ones he praised himself for that did not work.
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That's a breakdown of alternative facts (aka false statements) worthy of a place like Newsmax. It's more like:
Trump gets snookered into signing a disadvantageous deal and bombastically brags about what a great deal maker it is Company barely follows through on the deal, since it makes little economics sense. They do the bare minimum to satisfy Trump's need for propaganda and photo ops Eventually, company formally announces deal is off when there is no longer a Trump to snooker.
This is a story of a naive President trying to make "deals" with companies that appeal to his base but ends up well out of his depth in the game of international chess. He got had by a corporation.
What else is new? That seems to be his modus operandi; he is good at selling Trump but when it comes to actually running a business he is average at best.
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The con artist can't even be considered average. He has 16 failed businesses, his current businesses either don't turn a profit, in the case of his golf courses, or are barely squeaking by. The only one who seems to make out is the con artist himself as he siphons money from those businesses. Warren Buffett once remarked the con artist is the only person he knows who
Trump didn't get snookered (Score:3)
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It's not just Trump. Many politicians have an attitude that one new plant will save everything, and that anyone losing a plant during their term need to be voted out. One plant will never solve anything! Ten plants, then start crossing your fingers about a turnaround. But, one plant can serve as a "please vote for us!" symbol.
Not the only time of being snookered though. Trump praised a company for deciding to keep some jobs in the US while ignoring that they offshored a different set of jobs simultaneo
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+1, Informative.
Too bad I already posted.
Re: Let me guess... (Score:2)
From the linked-to story:
Foxconn noted that since 2017, it has invested $900 million in Wisconsin, including several different facilities in the state.
The state has already spent more than $200 million on road improvements, tax exemptions and grants to local governments for worker training and employment, according to the records obtained by Wisconsin Public Radio.
Foxconn invested $900M, the state $200M, some of which are tax exemptions for tax revenues they weren't previously receiving, but lets count them.
Foxconn is on track to create about 1,400 jobs in Wisconsin after scaling back to current levels of investment - that's pretty good, remember these jobs are concentrated in one facility not dispersed across the state or country, that's a significant number.
That has a net effect of pulling at least 1,400 people off public assistance, puts m
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That has a net effect of pulling at least 1,400 people off public assistance, puts money in their pocket, and helps their community grow.
This presumes that every person Foxconn hired was on public assistance. If you take a look at the job ads Foxconn is posting, to get a $17/hour job at their factory they require at least 3-5 years electronic assembly experience. Other jobs require 5+ years warehouse experience.
It might be safe to assume a small number of these people were on public assistance or unemployment etc, but with the experience requirements most of these people are likely already employed and looking to change jobs.
At the
Re:Let me guess... (Score:5, Informative)
You're right: It wasn't Trump's fault.
This alleged "deal" was put together by *local* Republican idiots. Trump just parachuted in to take credit at the end.
The "deal" didn't fail under anyone's watch. It essentially never existed. Foxconn never had any intentions of implementing whatever vague promises they gave to the local Republican idiots. See: The other countrries where they set up a similar smoke screens.
Re:Let me guess... (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right: It wasn't Trump's fault.
This alleged "deal" was put together by *local* Republican idiots. Trump just parachuted in to take credit at the end.
He put his stamp of approval on the deal so he owns it. He had the levers of power at his disposal to make sure that Foxconn followed through. He just didn't care to do the work after he got the photo op.
Re:Let me guess... (Score:5, Informative)
Obviously that didn't happen, and to prevent them from getting amnesia along the way I kept bringing it up. "How's that magical super factory doing?" and so on, to wit they made excuse after excuse, but couldn't deny it wasn't anywhere near targets. When Guv'nor Walker lost, a couple tried to use Evers as the reason the factory was going down. Nope, we talked about it failing to meet goals well before this bucko. The rest tacitly admitted it wasn't working out. Not overtly mind you because Conservative policies can never fail, they can only be failed by not being conservative enough. They still tried to deflect blame to those durty demonrats.
Here's another example of complete Republican WEDC incompetence buckos. They also handed money out to Kestrel Aircraft. Many
Then let us not forget those great Republicans who personally said this deal was (in the words of Tony the Tiger) Gr-r-reat! for Wisconsin: Speaker Robin "I am an idiot who can't read or do math." Vos, Senate Leader Scott "I am an incompetent who doesn't understand what a good deal is." Fitzgerald, and finally Scott "I couldn't negotiate my way out of a paper bag." Walker. President Trump merely swooped in thinking he could get some of the glory. Of course this means that President Trump, and his staff, are complete morons because they 1) didn't look at the deal at all, and/or 2) thought it really was a good deal showing their utter incompetence in business AND government.
In the end the FoxConn "deal" was a massive wealth transfer from the state Republicans to a foreign private corporation. That on top of screwing with local governments who now are on the hook for development costs related to the non-existent factory complex they thought would be coming. Let's not forget all the land taken from people in the area where the factory was going, some of whom had just built new homes.
Republican government at it's finest: Socialize the risk, privatize the profits, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was more than a little graft in there to enrich themselves along the way.
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Bravo! Well done. This is exactly as it went down.
Re:Let me guess... (Score:4, Informative)
> In the end the FoxConn "deal" was a massive wealth transfer from the state Republicans to a foreign private corporation
In the end the FoxConn "deal" was a massive wealth transfer from the state taxpayers to a foreign private corporation
FTFY.
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You're right: It wasn't Trump's fault.
This alleged "deal" was put together by *local* Republican idiots. Trump just parachuted in to take credit at the end.
Donald Trump disagrees and says it was all his fault:
"I hate to say it, if I didn't get elected, they wouldn't be in this country. They would not have done this in this country. I think you know that very well," - Trump
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/28... [npr.org]
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- $10B deal put together under Trump's watch
- Deal fails under Biden's watch
Reeee EeEeeEEE Trump's fault
You are a damned liar. The project had already failed years ago, under Trump. This is just the latest escalation step of Trump's failure.
Re:Let me guess... (Score:5, Interesting)
It is too dumb to be a lie (since we've been watching this deal founder for years)--but it is a strained attempt to spin this defeat away from its architects.
American conservatives have given up on victories after about a solid year of policy and electoral failure. Covid was worse than they said, the various MAGA medications proved ineffective while masks proved their worth, Biden won, the claims of fraud turned out to be a conspiracy theory grift, the Warp Speed vaccines were delivered just in time to help Biden, a policeman was convicted of homicide merely for kneeling on a man's neck until he died (and a little after), and to top if off: Blacks failed to riot like these people predicted and hoped.
Yesterday a conservative friend triumphantly shared a story indicating that the Capitol Hill Police officer who died battling insurrectionists died of a stroke rather than injuries. But even this minor victory (media wrong, rightists slightly less murderous than previously thought) is part of a larger and shameful defeat.
America's manufacturing sector can actually be willed into existence, but it would require vision and investment beyond providing insane tax incentives for a single company to build a single product.
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Pretty much, yes. I do get that any republican with at least some personal honor and integrity and at least some connection to reality is deeply ashamed now. Most are obviously still in denial and desperately look for any angle that makes "their" government not look so abysmally bad as it was. Lets hope that most do not take too long to come out of it, because that would be very bad for the US. In the end, only facing reality and facts can lead to problem solving. And who knows, maybe in a decade or two the
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Re:Let me guess... (Score:5, Interesting)
This unfortunately is more of a generally failure of the idea that we can bribe employers to move to a state. If the economics make sense, then the employers will set up in the area. Bribes just distorts the free markets.
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This unfortunately is more of a generally failure of the idea that we can bribe employers to move to a state. If the economics make sense, then the employers will set up in the area. Bribes just distorts the free markets.
Worse than that, the bribes just don't work and create nothing but repeating blackmail. A better idea is to ensure that you have an educated populace and supporting infrastructure for business. To attract the best employees that business should also want good schools, housing, and transportation options. Don't chase unicorns, or manipulators, chase definable goals so when a serious employer looks they see you have the land / services / employable population / et al. necessary to support various businesses.
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Stop it. Everyone knew the day the deal was signed that it was fake posturing to get what they wanted. They waited out Trump's term because he really believed them. It probably took them from January to renegotiate their deal with Wisconsin.
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- $10B deal put together under Trump's watch>- Deal fails under Biden's watch
The deal fell apart long before. This is just the obituary notice.
Say, you should read Slashdot-- it had covered the deal extensively.
https://yro.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]
https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
https://slashdot.org/story/20/... [slashdot.org]
https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
Re: Let me guess... (Score:3)
The deal was already failed long before Biden won the election in November 2020. Foxconn never built anything like what they promised.
When the deal was first made, it was pointed out that Foxconn had a history of making deals for tax breaks and credits and then not delivering. Regrettably, Wisconsin leaders were willing to ignore Foxconn's record.
So, you simply cannot blame any of this on Biden. He was not involved in either the first contract nor in the modified contract.
Next time take a moment to se
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Trump and Biden are irrelevant here. This was/is a state and local government issue.
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You scared that Kamala is going ring your doorbell and then proceeded to rough you up until you agree to rooftop solar panels?
Re: Let me guess... (Score:4, Informative)
Consider alcoholism or prescription drug abuse as a healthy supplement to your #MAGA lifestyle.
Also, cry more. Maybe that'll help.
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Republicans (the less evil party but still evil)
You must mean evil from a corporate perspective, rather than the concept of evil most of us are familiar with. Yeah, if you're a business, the Republicans are less evil in that they're ever so slightly less likely to raise your taxes or regulatory burdens.
But if you're human, you might consider evil to include: helping a deadly pandemic spread by encouraging people to not wear masks, viewing LGBT+ Americans as subhuman, being pretty much okay with people dying if they can't afford their healthcare/medicine
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Yep, the party of "pro-life", unless it's someone who can't afford their food, healthcare and/or medicine. Both parties have lives that they're happy to see get flushed down the toilet, they just disagree on the qualifying criteria.
One could technically make the argument that the Republican Party supports very late-term abortion, after the fetus has reached a development stage (normally referred to as "adulthood") where it should've reached self-sufficiency but failed to do so.
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"This land is your land and this land is my land
From California to the New York island
From the redwood forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and me"