Colorado Ditches SAT, ACT and Legacy Admissions For Public Colleges (npr.org) 156
Colorado has become the first state to ban "legacy" admissions, a practice that gives preference to certain applicants based on their familial relationship to alumni of that institution. "The governor also signed a bill that removes a requirement that public colleges consider SAT or ACT scores for freshmen, though the new law still allows students to submit test scores if they wish," adds NPR. From the report: Both moves are aimed at making higher education access more equitable. According to the legislation, 67% of middle- to high-income students in Colorado enroll in bachelor's degree programs straight from high school, while 47% of low-income students do. There are also major differences when it comes to race, with white students far more likely to enroll in college.
Legacy admissions have long been a target for reform. In a 2018 survey of admissions directors by Inside Higher Ed, 42% of private institutions and 6% of public institutions said they consider legacy status as a factor in admissions. Some of the nation's largest public universities do not consider legacy, including both the University of California and the California State University systems. However, private colleges in California have reported using legacy as a way to encourage philanthropic giving and donations.
During the pandemic, many colleges backed off on using SAT and ACT scores in admissions. Research has shown -- and lawsuits have argued -- that the tests, long used to measure aptitude for college, are far more connected to family income and don't provide meaningful information about a student's ability to succeed in college. Wealthier families are also more likely to pay for test prep courses, or attend schools with curricula that focus on the exams.
Legacy admissions have long been a target for reform. In a 2018 survey of admissions directors by Inside Higher Ed, 42% of private institutions and 6% of public institutions said they consider legacy status as a factor in admissions. Some of the nation's largest public universities do not consider legacy, including both the University of California and the California State University systems. However, private colleges in California have reported using legacy as a way to encourage philanthropic giving and donations.
During the pandemic, many colleges backed off on using SAT and ACT scores in admissions. Research has shown -- and lawsuits have argued -- that the tests, long used to measure aptitude for college, are far more connected to family income and don't provide meaningful information about a student's ability to succeed in college. Wealthier families are also more likely to pay for test prep courses, or attend schools with curricula that focus on the exams.
fair for everyone (Score:5, Funny)
Re:fair for everyone (Score:5, Insightful)
If the thermometer shows that your house is cold, you have two options:
1. Fix your furnace
2. Throw away the thermometer
The first option is better by some measures, but the second option is much cheaper.
If non-Asian minorities do poorly on the SAT, you have two options:
1. Fix the K-12 education system
2. Throw away the tests
The first option is better by some measures, but the second option is much cheaper.
Re: fair for everyone (Score:5, Insightful)
If the k-12 system is the problem, then why do Asians going through the same k-12 system go to college more than anybody else and generally score higher on those exams?
And no, white privilege doesn't count.
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why do Asians going through the same k-12 system go to college
Asian kids and black kids don't go to the same schools.
My kids went to public schools in San Jose, California. Plenty of Asians. The schools were in the top 1% in the nation with generous funding for enrichment programs like GATE. There were like three black kids in the entire school.
Re: fair for everyone (Score:5, Insightful)
Who said anything about being black? I'm speaking in comparison to everybody that isn't Asian.
The main thing I'm getting at is I think there is a lot that can be better explained by cultural differences than some kind of institutional problem.
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Who said anything about being black?
He brought up black because most extremist liberals seem to fetishize minorities these days.
How do "Black" kids in Asian schools go? (Score:2)
Compared to the Asians?
Is it nature or nurture?
Very dangerous questions that cannot be asked.
But certainly, putting my daughter into an expensive private school greatly enhanced here academic performance. Not because the teachers were better, but because she was surrounded by other kids that cared about doing well. The cohort is really important for her. But my other daughter does fine in a basic public school.
Re: fair for everyone (Score:4, Interesting)
Who said anything about being black? I'm speaking in comparison to everybody that isn't Asian.
The main thing I'm getting at is I think there is a lot that can be better explained by cultural differences than some kind of institutional problem.
West Virginia gets the lowest SAT scores in the country, Minnesota gets the highest.
Cultural differences right, because it's unpossible that Minnesotans, statistically, go to better schools.
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Asian people tend to spend more money on educating their kids. Part of it is cultural, part of it is tending to start from a better position of having parents with enough money to afford extra tuition. Also the legacy admissions system that they are doing away with.
Creating more opportunities for talented kids from poorer backgrounds to go to college helps them build up a culture of educational success too. If no-one in your family ever went to college and your family knows little about it or about how to h
Re: fair for everyone (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: fair for everyone (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: fair for everyone (Score:2)
And teachers have very little room power in the classroom, the principals are afraid to confront the trouble makers parents - and he is su
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Re: fair for everyone (Score:5, Informative)
Average IQ of whites: 100
Average IQ of blacks: 85
A century ago, there was a 15 point gap in IQ scores between protestants and Catholics in Ireland.
Today, there is no gap.
IQ gaps can be caused by cultural and environmental factors.
Lead depresses IQ scores. Black children in America have twice the blood lead levels that white children have.
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Average IQ of whites: 100
Average IQ of blacks: 85
A century ago, there was a 15 point gap in IQ scores between protestants and Catholics in Ireland.
A century ago, there was a far higher black-white IQ gap in the US. It has narrowed, and seems to be stabilised at around 15 points.
We have also seen the Flynn Effect, where overall scores have risen dramatically, but appear to have stabilised now.
There is not much to be achieved by trying to debate the causes - nature vs nurture - in the current political climate, but the evidence is clear that the gap is real.
And that IQ scores, whatever else they may or may not mean, are a good predictor of academic abil
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Simple answer.
Rap.
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Average IQ of Asians: 105
Average IQ of whites: 100
Average IQ of blacks: 85
This has been known for decades. Unfortunately we seem determined to not know it.
And no, that isn't because the IQ tests are "racially biased". If that was true it shouldn't be difficult to bias the tests such that they're biased in favor of blacks. Somehow, no one has been able to do it.
We also know that average IQ varies county to county, state to state, country to country, by gender, by age, by first spoken language, by income level, by the kind of clothes you wear, by your preference of NASCAR or Formula One, etc.
We know.
It comes down to what stupid and racist point are you trying to make with statistics you don't understand.
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It comes down to what stupid and racist point are you trying to make with statistics you don't understand.
Why the ad-hominem? He was replying to a question about racial difference in college entry scores.
By the way, these are just US numbers, and not comments on race more broadly. e.g. Indian immigrants to the US have a far higher average IQ than India does, for multiple reasons.
Also non-refugee African immigrants to the US are well educated and arguably have far more in common with Asian immigrants than with native Blacks.
So this is not simply about race, but about social class and immigration.
African immigra [wikipedia.org]
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-- George Orwell
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Re: fair for everyone (Score:3)
What if the test doesn't measure anything meaningful to predict college success? (Or more realistically it stops meaning anything above a certain score yet every applicant to a competitive collection will have that nominal score). The adcom will use the score to rank people even if it is meaningless.
Like what if the essay portion had a score component for handwriting and spelling. Some people just have better handwriting than others yet it is irrelevant for performance in college.
Re: fair for everyone (Score:4, Insightful)
What if the test doesn't measure anything meaningful to predict college success?
It is easy to criticize (and yes, the standardized tests are flawed in many ways). If you want to propose a better test -- that's great.
But if you want to remove a test because it isn't good enough... You would have to explain to me how having less information will improve the quality of admission decisions.
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Like what if the essay portion had a score component for handwriting and spelling. Some people just have better handwriting than others yet it is irrelevant for performance in college.
That actually happened to me at school.
Arthritis in my hands made my handwriting quite poor, and it was difficult to write out long essays. The pain made it hard to think so the longer I wrote the more the quality of what was being written declined too. It also affected by ability to read out loud, which teachers interpreted as not being good at reading.
I held me back. I ended up getting put in remedial classes for stuff I had no problem with beyond the arthritis. Once I could type most documents out and te
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If the thermometer shows that your house is cold, you have two options: 1. Fix your furnace 2. Throw away the thermometer
The first option is better by some measures, but the second option is much cheaper.
Except that throwing away the thermometer in this case will probably make the house even colder.
In the absence of hard, objective (if imperfect) measures, admissions committees are going to look for other ways to distinguish students who are likely to be successful from those who aren't. Lacrosse players are going to be picked over basketball players (beyond those needed for the team), for example, because your average Lacrosse player is more likely to succeed than your average basketball player. This isn
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Yes, and basing admissions on grades will force smart students to take lower level classes and learn less so they can optimize their GPA instead of their education. Getting all A's can be an indication of not being challenged vs. working hard and succeeding.
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Most colleges use weighted scores.
An extra half point is added to the GPA for honors classes.
A full point is added for AP classes.
So, no, taking easy classes doesn't get you into a good college. An aspirational student needs to take hard classes and do well in them.
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So, no, taking easy classes doesn't get you into a good college. An aspirational student needs to take hard classes and do well in them.
That's true until they realize black students don't go to schools that offer honors and AP classes, and even when they're in schools that do, they don't take them or pass them at nearly the same rate.
Eventually they'll resort to pulling names out of a hat.
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I sat for the first sitting of the California Bar Exam for which a thumbprint was taken every day.
It was put in after they noticed that someone had jumped from one of the lowest scores in the state in one attempt, to one of the highest at the next. Combined with the report by a proctor that he appeared to be several months pregnant, with his hair tucked into his collar.
I never saw the followup, but I presume that he never got the chance to take it again, and that his wife was disbarred . . .
I also went to
Re: fair for everyone (Score:3)
No, smart students won't be 'forced' into easier classes to goose their GPA.
In 2017 there were 13 high schools in Baltimore where not one student is doing math at grade level [foxbaltimore.com]. Do you think they have a valedictorian at their graduation? Their valedictorian graduates incapable of doing math at grade level!
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The result was a dramatic decrease in the number of black job applicants who got jobs. Why? Because employers didn't want to hire ex cons, and given that a much higher percentage of black applicants were ex cons, one good way to reduce the probability of hiring an ex con was to avoid hiring black applicants. Without, of course, admitting that was the reason.
"I'm only racist because they took away all my other discrimination tools."
Sorry, not sorry. It's like not being allowed to ask women if they want a family or not, and falling back to not hiring women.
I want people doing that to feel uncomfortable, I want them to stand out.
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I want people doing that to feel uncomfortable, I want them to stand out.
That's cute.
Maybe try talking to people outside your circle of friends sometime.
Re: fair for everyone (Score:3)
Harvard is not a meritocracy, it is a carefully curated menagerie of hand-picked ethnic groups, picked like so many tobacco leaves to form the perfect blend of ethnicities on campus. Less qualified students are taking the places of better qualified students, based on each student's ethnic, racial, and social background.
Why do colleges snd universities offer remedial programs? Imagine if their K-12 school district had to pick up the tab for remedial classes their graduates require to attend college?
Re:fair for everyone (Score:4, Insightful)
If the thermometer shows that your house is cold, you have two options:
1. Fix your furnace
2. Throw away the thermometer
There's also the possibility that the thermometer is wrong. Maybe your thermometer is miscalibrated. Maybe you put the thermometer by the window and you're measuring the cold air leaking in. Maybe you've just put the thermometer in a location that doesn't get good airflow and it doesn't give an accurate sense of the house as a whole.
Every now and then you need to make sure that you're measuring the right thing, and that your measurements are correct.
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If non-Asian minorities do poorly on the SAT, you have two options: 1. Fix the K-12 education system 2. Throw away the tests
The first option is better by some measures, but the second option is much cheaper.
Actually, you should first figure out what the problem is. In fact, the difference in performance between ethnic groups almost certain is not the education system. However, people don't want to risk being labelled racist, by pointing out alternative explanations tied to the ethnic groups. If you have a culture that says "doing well in school" is "acting white" - well, maybe that culture is the problem. That said, I don't see a problem with letting basically anyone have a try at a state college. However, th
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At an institution near me, the students who were most likely to drop-out without graduating were students with high ACT scores but relatively low GPA
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An individual's ability to do well academically is either tied to the state they were born in or it isn't.
If the state plays a part, then state origin is scientifically legitimate, which is a controversial position.
So people born in West Virginia really do bomb standardized tests. I dare you to explain what you mean by scientifically legitimate.
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We wouldn't want anyone from missing out on accruing non-dischargable student loan debt.
This is beginning to sound a lot like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Home loans for all, regardless of whether they can afford it, or even understand the debt.
Student loans for all, regardless of the ability to complete a marketable degree, and repay the debt.
The similarities are terrifying.
Re: fair for everyone (Score:2)
Federal student loans are not issued based on academic performance or program of study, merely that you attend the school snd maintain a passing grade.
Re: fair for everyone (Score:2)
Snark noted, but I suspect you are too young to remember when tremendous numbers of college students simply walked away from their debits, choosing bankruptcy over paying their student loans.
I don't understand the mindset that can borrow $50,000-60,000 and not understand they will be paying $5,000-6,000/yr for ten years after graduation for their education.
John Stossel did a great report on college student borrowing that every high school senior contemplating borrowing a high percentage of their college tui
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international pov (Score:3, Insightful)
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Smart kids will succeed even if they go to a low-grade college. Most college is not very applicable to the real-world anyhow. Not much is lost.
There are certain name-centric fields where being in the top college helps, but that's more about connections and prestige rather than merit anyhow. It's Status Kabuki Theatre.
College just gives you the basics. Get out into the field as early as possible and gain real-world experience. Most of college is either too theo
Re: international pov (Score:2)
Re:international pov (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, there are college failures, and there are self-made people who stopped at 10th grade. But, these are the exceptions to the rule. When you look at populations, no matter how you cut it, college is a MASSIVE advantage to a person.
There's a reason why unlicensed doctors don't get a lot of patients. There are reasons why self-taught engineers usually blow themselves up in the backyard. At least nowadays they do it on youtube and we can get some lulz from it. There's a reason why most writers went to college. There's a reason why most good welders have an associates degree in, wait for it, welding. There are reasons why more college grads retire with WAY more money than most college dropouts. And it's not because the college grads are consipiring to keep everyone else down. It's because the most qualified people for a good job are, wait for it, COLLEGE TRAINED OR ABOVE.
Most of the people telling you that you don't need a degree to succeed are ivy-leaguers who were born into millions of family dollars and went on to make even more. Are you gonna do what they SAY, or what they DO? Choose carefully - this is an intelligence test. And if you think you can follow in the footsteps of people like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, you're basically playing the lottery because there are only half a dozen people like that on the planet, and last time I checked there are about 7 billion of us.
Re: international pov (Score:2)
Re: international pov (Score:2)
Your analysis ignores the years of lost wages and the ten years after college when you currently pay a thousand dollars a month (or more) while you are trying to save for a hone or want to start a family... of course, that assumes you earned a degree in a marketable skill - gender studies, French poetry, and other such degrees prepare you for a career surrounded by people wearing paper hats and name tags. If you present well, maybe someday you could become a barista and trade your paper hat for a nice gre
Re: international pov (Score:2)
I'd rather they paid off everyone's credit card debt, it's about half the amount - $1TN vs $1.7TN - and would meaningfully impact the greatest number of Americans instantly.
Paying off college debt benefits a much smaller segment of the population and costs a lot more.
From May 4, 2021: https://www.cnbc.com/select/us... [cnbc.com]
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Smart kids will succeed even if they go to a low-grade college
But poorly prepared kids (who were not tested at admission) will likely fail in college.
Re: international pov (Score:2)
If you are in the bottom 40% of your graduating class, you likely will not graduate from college - how much debt should we allow these students to accumulate before they ultimately fail out of college?
How much more fair is a black box? (Score:5, Insightful)
While the SAT may not do a great job of judging aptitude in college, doesn't it do a pretty good job acting as a minimal level of competence filter?
What good does it do to admit a kid to a college, that is academically not ready for college? It's a waste of everyone's time.
But what really bothers me is, how then would colleges select which applicants get to attend? It sure seems like it comes down to whoever the application committee feels like admitting based on entirely unguessable criteria, or who have been properly bribed to admit... if you take test scores out of the equation, you remove all fairness from the system, not increase it.
It sure makes it a lot easier for rich parents to get kids into a specific college, and probably gets more applications who choose to identify as black into the school. But I'm not sure that's a better world than if we simply made a giant push as a society to better educate the underclass, especially in all-black neighborhoods.
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But I'm not sure that's a better world than if we simply made a giant push as a society to better educate the underclass, especially in all-black neighborhoods.
That push has been happening for the past 50 years.
Re: How much more fair is a black box? (Score:2)
Famous "waiting for Superman" documentary slide:
https://medium.com/orchestrati... [medium.com]
Chart shows spending versus test scores
Interesting read:
https://medium.com/orchestrati... [medium.com]
Re: How much more fair is a black box? (Score:4, Interesting)
When I started community college, they did a free placement test to determine what math and English levels you started with. I think it was all of a 30 minute test and they graded it on the spot.
I eventually transferred to a state university to complete my bachelor's degree, and I never took either the ACT or SAT.
IMO they should require pretty much everybody to complete at least 36 credits at a public community college before they're even eligible for student loans. Federal Pell grants already more than cover the cost of tuition, it's just a simple matter of saving up for your living expenses for the duration, which would also enforce a habit of being thrifty in college rather than blowing loan money out your ass on partying and then asking for bailouts after the fact.
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IMHO they should require you to have passed a basic financial management course in high school before you're even eligible for loans of any type. Oh wait, high schools don't teach that.
The big disconnect I see in the debate over student loans is that those opposed to discharging them rightfully point out that the students voluntarily agreed to the ter
Re: How much more fair is a black box? (Score:2)
Your same "ignorance defense" could equally apply to credit cards. Maybe this administration will decide to pay off all consumer credit card debt - it makes just as much sense (and costs less than) reading student debt.
Re: How much more fair is a black box? (Score:2)
...and costs less than) paying off student debt.
Re: How much more fair is a black box? (Score:2, Insightful)
What good does it do to admit a kid to a college, that is academically not ready for college?
Don't worry, the kid will be moved into Communications, Women's Studies, or Political "Science" majors producing the next generation of office desk paper movers and baristas who will whine about higher ed being too expensive.
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Unless you can surprise everyone with the same test so that they can't prepare beforehand then the test results are skewed useless.
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It doesn't matter what or how students are tested, the chosen system will be gamed as much as possible. I really don't have an answer for you, just complaints, sorry.
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the chosen system will be gamed as much as possible. I really don't have an answer for you, just complaints, sorry.
Why do you think parents are "gaming" the system? Do you think it's wrong for parents to give every advantage they can to their kids to be successful? This "gaming" has been going on for millions of years of evolution.
Re: How much more fair is a black box? (Score:2)
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Re: How much more fair is a black box? (Score:2)
The reason some of it matters is the schools reputation. Their recruiting is based on post school job placement, and percentage of acceptances to graduate programs like Vet, Doctor, Law, etc. So if someone looks
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>So if someone looks like a winner, they will give them a break in hopes it raises their metrics.
And *that* is how I got my full scholarship to law school.
My LSAT was so extreme that it actually changed the last reported digit for my entering class.
The dean who had been brought in to turn the school around realized that he had empty seats, and that full scholarships to people who wouldn't have considered the school cost him nothing . . .
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doesn't it do a pretty good job acting as a minimal level of competence filter?
I think that's the point. Studies are showing it doesn't. Further, all they're removing is the requirement to have a test score. They're not removing the ability to use the test scores to assess the student. Basically, they're saying if the student can show enough promise without it, it's not required.
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While the SAT may not do a great job of judging aptitude in college, doesn't it do a pretty good job acting as a minimal level of competence filter?
Sure, but it's not being used as a minimal level of competence filter, it's being used as a sorting mechanism.
It's a waste of everyone's time.
But what really bothers me is, how then would colleges select which applicants get to attend? It sure seems like it comes down to whoever the application committee feels like admitting based on entirely unguessable criteria, or who have been properly bribed to admit... if you take test scores out of the equation, you remove all fairness from the system, not increase it.
It sure makes it a lot easier for rich parents to get kids into a specific college, and probably gets more applications who choose to identify as black into the school. But I'm not sure that's a better world than if we simply made a giant push as a society to better educate the underclass, especially in all-black neighborhoods.
What's a better predictor for performance for several years of courses graded through assignments and testing. A single set of high stakes tests or several years of courses graded through assignments and testing?
High school grades are a far better predictor of post-secondary success than SATs.
Not only do you get a much larger sample size over more relevant activities, but you also reduce the ability
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High school grades are a far better predictor of post-secondary success than SATs.
Of course, this does create a second problem of grade inflation in high schools.
Grade inflation is only half of the problem. The other half is that grade inflation will differ from high school to high school.
So you are looking at some unknown degree of grade inflation, depending on the high school.
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Didn't you contradict your own point?
Nope
High school grades are a far better predictor of post-secondary success than SATs.
Of course, this does create a second problem of grade inflation in high schools.
Grade inflation is only half of the problem. The other half is that grade inflation will differ from high school to high school.
So you are looking at some unknown degree of grade inflation, depending on the high school.
Grade inflation happens now, but high school grades are still a better predictor than SAT scores, especially when comparing people from the same school. You also left off the final sentence from my comment.
And there SATs can serve as a mechanism to enforce academic standards across high schools.
So grade inflation isn't entirely an unknown. If SATs are just another test that contributes to your high school grade (and not used as an admissions criteria) then rich kids stop prepping for them and they becom
Re: How much more fair is a black box? (Score:2)
High school grades are a far better predictor of post-secondary success than SATs.
Bullshit.
Ever heard of social promotion? High school grades are meaningless.
There are schools in Baltimore where ZERO student can do math at grade level, yet somehow every year they look out and they select a valedictorian for the graduating class - who also can't do math at grade level. What's the value of the grades from those schools?
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Re: How much more fair is a black box? (Score:3)
I went to a prestigious engineering school that arbitrarily decided to single-handedly increase the number of girls accepted in my freshman class. They set a quota and accepted that many girls, regardless of any academic achievement or lack thereof. You know what, the end result was a bunch of ill-prepared girls failing classes snd walking away with tens of thousands in student debt with nothing but failure to show for it.
Wonder what the long-term effect of that early failure was on these girls..,
What's next? (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Have a computer or fast Internet access because that's obviously not available for all families.
2. Own educational books in your home because not all families have that.
3. Have healthy meals because not all families can eat that.
4. Buy your children their own musical instrument because that's an unfair resource not available to all.
5. Spend more than 4 hours a day with your children because that's a luxury not all families have.
6. Pick up your kids from school in a car because not all families can do that.
7. Hire tutors for your child because not all families have access to that.
8. Raise your kids with good values because that not all families can prioritize that.
9. Be successful because not all parents can be that way.
10. Encourage your kids to study hard because that's almost as bad as standardized tests, which we've had since the 1950s.
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If it makes you feel any better, by the time we get done addressing your list there won't be a country left to employ any child we never left behind no matter what.
Re:What's next? (Score:4, Insightful)
And the most important rule:
0. Have a father.
It's the largest burden for black children today, 70% of whom lack fathers, directly contributing to poverty, gangs, failure to attend or graduate school, teen pregnancy, and addiction to cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana, heroin, the politics of victimization and communism.
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Would having an Ebonics tutor be acceptable or no?
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6. Pick up your kids from school in a car because not all families can do that.
Frankly, I would prefer you not do this because it's unnecessary, polluting (if you aren't driving an EV) and causes traffic.
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I came from a working class background, so my parents did not:
Instead, in a time before the internet, I managed to:
learn enough electronics to build my first guitar amp,
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I believe the university system, and it's preference for admitting unqualified minorities, is making racial inequality worse in this country... Education systems are supposed to empower students, not disable them.
Don't forget, a black graduate's degree will also be worth less than a white graduate's. Employers aren't all idiots. They know the black graduates had to meet a lower bar.
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You can achieve all of the above if you refuse to accept that there is a "right" answer to a math problem and refuse to use "grades" or "monitor progress" to evaluate student progress.
California is trying to pass something like that right now.
Not good enough (Score:2)
We must abolish math and English as colonial anachronisms
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We must abolish math and English as colonial anachronisms
This is already happening. A couple of quotes (including italics) from CA's "A Pathway to Equitable Math Instruction".
Upholding the idea that there are always right and wrong answers perpetuate objectivity as well as fear of open conflict. Some math problems may have more than one right answer and some may not have a solution at all, depending on the content and the context. And when the focus is only on getting the right answer, the complexity of the mathematical concepts and reasoning may be underdeveloped, missing opportunities for deep learning.
Unique to mathematics is the idea that new learning comes from the teacher. Even when learning is connected to previous knowledge and experiences, the idea is often that teachers provide the learning and are in charge of disseminating new information. This reinforces the ideas of paternalism and powerhoarding. When students bring a different approach to doing math, teachers often get defensive and see it as a challenge to the power structures in the classroom.
After this passes, English will be next to go.
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Upholding the idea that there are always right and wrong answers perpetuate objectivity as well as fear of open conflict. Some math problems may have more than one right answer and some may not have a solution at all, depending on the content and the context. And when the focus is only on getting the right answer, the complexity of the
mathematical concepts and reasoning may be underdeveloped, missing opportunities for deep learning.
I don't see a problem with this. Math teachers are often too rigid, requiring students to solve problems exactly in the way they were taught to solve it. Meanwhile higher math is all about different approaches to the same problem. Try asking mathematicians which set theory is the right set theory for example.
Unique to mathematics is the idea that new learning comes from the teacher. Even when learning is connected
to previous knowledge and experiences, the idea is often that teachers provide the learning and are in charge of
disseminating new information. This reinforces the ideas of paternalism and powerhoarding. When students bring a
different approach to doing math, teachers often get defensive and see it as a challenge to the power structures in
the classroom.
Yes, teachers should recognize the limits of their own knowledge. Though I disagree with the "unique to mathematics" part. This is more of a problem in English class. Consider how many teachers accept "
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Upholding the idea that there are always right and wrong answers perpetuate objectivity as well as fear of open conflict. Some math problems may have more than one right answer and some may not have a solution at all, depending on the content and the context. And when the focus is only on getting the right answer, the complexity of the mathematical concepts and reasoning may be underdeveloped, missing opportunities for deep learning.
I don't see a problem with this. Math teachers are often too rigid, requiring students to solve problems exactly in the way they were taught to solve it. Meanwhile higher math is all about different approaches to the same problem. Try asking mathematicians which set theory is the right set theory for example.
I encourage you to read through the document and see for yourself (this is just a small sample).
The statement above is true, but they are talking about restructuring middle school education (and 2 years of high school, through 10th grade).
I do not teach math, but I think middle school math is mostly about problems that have just one answer (and "more than one right answer" does not actually contradict "there are always right and wrong answers ").
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Go woke go...wait profit more? (Score:2)
And we wonder why there is a skilled trades shortage- we incentivize and idolize a college degree, and look down on everything else.
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no worries, they'll get dumbed down requirements and help to rewrite their essay papers.
would think please of the calculator cartels??!! (Score:2)
Those tests need the approved TI calculators that cost $120 and have the same power as they did 25 years ago!
Now the calculator people will starve and die, having to live off profit margin of $20 calculators sold to non-students that do more with higher res screens!
Monsters!
What about exit requirements? (Score:2, Interesting)
Now we urge the great state of Colorado to address the next big impediment faced by disadvantaged people in college. Time to address the exit requirements. So many courses to take, so much in core, so much specialization, pass marks, grades, grade point averages ... All of them are placing onerous burden on the student and prevent so many students from reaching their full potential.
It is patently obvious, no point reducing impediments to entry, all impe
The bad news? (Score:2)
Instead of entrance exams, you are now required to submit lists of the participation awards you have received.
There are set quotas of participation awards you must have, before you can even be considered. /s?
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And the trees are all kept equal ... (Score:2)
Fund Students Instead of Systems (Score:3)
This realization that we should be funding students instead of closed buildings is also leading to real action in a majority of state legislatures across the country.
https://reason.org/commentary/... [reason.org]
Because... (Score:2)
Because your skin color is more important than your aptitude.
Politicians make everything better! (Score:2)
Politicians defining college admissions policies, what could possibly go wrong? Political favoritism definitely will help eliminate any issues people had over college admission practices.
I don't care about SAT/ACT test inclusion - I took the SAT in the 1980s, and that coupled with my grades, my schools reputation (if any) and personal interviews won me acceptance into the schools I applied to. I care about politicians modifying admission practices to "help" unprepared applicants gain admission to a college
Only if based on Student Performance (Score:4, Insightful)
That might be true, but whatever criteria replaces the exams will also be wealth-targetable via tutoring etc.
Sadly I think you are being too naive in assuming that whatever replaced it will be based on student performance. The way things are going it is more likely to be some combination of a performance score modified by the socio-economic status of your parents.
Of course, any such system will be grossly unfair and lead to students incapable of doing well at university getting in and wasting everyone's time and money. That being said though I think these "legacy admissions" seem absolutely appalling and very anti-meritocracy. I was surprised to hear that they existed at all in the US.
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The way things are going it is more likely to be some combination of a performance score modified by the socio-economic status of your parents.
I'll bet they will have a hell of a time trying to figure out the socioeconomic class of a CEO who takes $40k in nominal salary and gives themselves the title of "sanitation engineer", married to a spouse who does not work.
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That being said though I think these "legacy admissions" seem absolutely appalling and very anti-meritocracy. I was surprised to hear that they existed at all in the US.
The reason they exist at private universities is to encourage donations. Rich donors won't feel very well inclined towards their alma mater if it rejects their kids.
I have no idea why a public university in Colorado has legacy admissions though.