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Education

MIT Reinstates SAT/ACT Requirement For Incoming Classes (cnn.com) 113

Posted by BeauHD from the bucking-the-anti-test-movement dept.
"The Massachusetts Institute of Technology announced it will once again require applicants to take the SAT or ACT, reversing a Covid-era policy that made the standardized tests optional and rejecting the idea that the tests hurt diversity," reports CNN. An anonymous reader shares an excerpt from a blog post announcing the decision, writing: From the policy announcement, there's an excess of delicacy -- to the point where you might find it funny or terribly disturbing: "Our research can't explain why these tests are so predictive of academic preparedness for MIT, but we believe it is likely related to the centrality of mathematics -- and mathematics examinations -- in our education. All MIT students, regardless of intended major, must pass two semesters of calculus, plus two semesters of calculus-based physics [...]. The substance and pace of these courses are both very demanding, and they culminate in long, challenging final exams that students must pass to proceed with their education. In other words, there is no path through MIT that does not rest on a rigorous foundation in mathematics, and we need to be sure our students are ready for that as soon as they arrive."

Did the entire admissions department threaten to quit? Or did the incoming class turn out to be morons? "Our research shows standardized tests help us better assess the academic preparedness of all applicants, and also help us identify socioeconomically disadvantaged students who lack access to advanced coursework or other enrichment opportunities that would otherwise demonstrate their readiness for MIT," Dean of Admissions Stu Schmill wrote in the policy announcement.

"We believe a requirement is more equitable and transparent than a test-optional policy."

A number of elite schools, including Harvard and University of California, announced plans to stop using the SAT and ACT college admissions exams. Last May, Colorado became the first state to ban "legacy" admissions and signed a bill that removes a requirement that public colleges consider SAT or ACAT scores for freshmen.
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MIT Reinstates SAT/ACT Requirement For Incoming Classes More

MIT Reinstates SAT/ACT Requirement For Incoming Classes

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  • ...they regularly turn down applicants with perfect SAT scores in favor of applicants with lower scores and other tangible and/or intangible qualifications.

    You can literally have a 4.2 GPA and a perfect SAT score and be denied by MIT, so they're not actually selecting for academic capability.

    • But heaven forbid you send your kid to Tech because my wife's gonna fail him.

      https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=2567414 [ratemyprofessors.com]

      ~PopeRatzo~

    • It's a prestigious private college, the entry requirements can be as arbitrary as they wish them to be. I doubt anyone is shocked by this; if you're trying to get into MIT you already should know what you're up against.

      Hell, they pretty much tell you this when you're in middle school if you're struggling at math - you can basically forget about ever getting into a prestigious college.

      • It's a prestigious private college

        MIT is a private college ... that receives billions of federal dollars annually for research, student aid, and educational mandates.

        • MIT is a private college ... that receives billions of federal dollars annually for research, student aid, and educational mandates.

          ...and we also subsidize oil companies and farmers, give wealthy people tax breaks on BEVs and PV systems for their expensive homes. Plenty of tax dollars go to things you and I will never see a direct benefit from (or maybe you have - I don't do your taxes). Indirect benefits? Well, that's more dicey. Perhaps it does benefit society at large if someone from MIT comes up with something that changes the world for the better.

          • The point is not that federal funding is "bad" but that, by receiving it, MIT is required to abide by federal law.

            They don't get an opt-out.

      • It's a prestigious private college, the entry requirements can be as arbitrary as they wish them to be. I doubt anyone is shocked by this; if you're trying to get into MIT you already should know what you're up against.

        Hell, they pretty much tell you this when you're in middle school if you're struggling at math - you can basically forget about ever getting into a prestigious college.

        Differential report.

        People matriculate and graduate from many colleges, and go on to have very successful and happy and well paid lives. I've worked with leaders who attended colleges I never heard of until I met them. Someone tells me they graduated from MIT, I say "cool". Someone tells me they graduated from Southeastern Northwestern Louisiana Tire Recapping Institute, I say "cool"

        Know what happens after you leave a prestigious college? You just become another person, and the only people who are impr

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by godrik ( 1287354 )

      It is not because you require ACT and SAT that you have to select applicants UNIQUELY on that criteria.

    • ...they regularly turn down applicants with perfect SAT scores in favor of applicants with lower scores and other tangible and/or intangible qualifications.

      You can literally have a 4.2 GPA and a perfect SAT score and be denied by MIT, so they're not actually selecting for academic capability.

      I think that's what happening is because of all the heavy math early on there's a certain baseline mathimatical ability students need that translates into a certain SAT score.

      So as long as you're sure to only accept students above that SAT score you're reasonably confident they can handle it.

      Once you've got that minimum you can start looking at other factors that you think either helps the school (diversity, rich folks who can donate, etc) or gives the student a better chance of achieving.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      If you maximize your AP classes, you should have closer to 4.3. It does not seem that much, but in my high school we calculated to hundredths of a point, and it made a difference in rank. So yeah, I can see have having some Bs or not taking AP course every year would get you off the admission. You know if the kid is dumber than the parents admit. And there are a lot of parents out there despondent because their kid is dumb. So they file lawsuits.

      The SAT was a pretty benevolent test. It was created to giv

      • Depending on the area, class rank is not a good measure. They're trying to push that in NYC for high school admissions. The problem is, so many schools have such appalling academics even most of the top students are not even remotely as prepared of someone in the middle of the pack at a far more rigorous school. The problem is it really violates people's sense of basic fairness to essentially penalize students for going to a good school; admitting students far, far less proficient to competitive schools sim

    • But.. But.. That's how you get new intellectual leaders who say that being overweight doesn't affect your health. [mdcthereporter.com]

    • You can literally have a 4.2 GPA and a perfect SAT score and be denied by MIT, so they're not actually selecting for academic capability.

      SAT scores are not the be-all and end-all of academic capability.

  • Like the quality of Slashdot posters, the quality of new MIT students went down when testing was eliminated.

  • When you make the test optional, only those who test poorly will refuse it. If you eliminate the test but your competitors do not, you only get those that test poorly. The proper way to do it is to replace the test with a different qualification, ideally a harder one.

    Which brings us to the other issue. The various tests do not measure perfectly intelligence are biased towards the wealthier parts American culture. Which is why they got rid of the test. But the real problem is that almost every quali

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by godrik ( 1287354 )

      Yeah, those you can use the test as part of the admission process without relying uniquely on the test.

      We have internal discussion about requiring the GRE for our MS program. And with a high number of international applicant it can be impossible to different candidate without looking at some test score. Even if they are not perfect metrics, it is better than tossing a coin.

    • biased towards the wealthier parts American culture.

      Except that poor Asian immigrants outperform rich whites.

      This isn't about "wealth". Nobody cares that college admissions are biased toward rich people.

      It is about race.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by khchung ( 462899 )

        biased towards the wealthier parts American culture.

        Except that poor Asian immigrants outperform rich whites.

        This isn't about "wealth". Nobody cares that college admissions are biased toward rich people.

        It is about race.

        Exactly.

        MIT did away with the test requirement because it was selecting applicants from the "wrong" demographics, i.e. poor Asians. It would have been fine if it was selecting rich white Americans.

        • MIT did away with the test requirement because ...

          MIT did not do away with the test requirement. MIT requires the SAT or ACT.

          The University of California did away with the test. But they didn't do it to keep Asians out. They did it because the courts ordered the testing to end.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Zak3056 ( 69287 )

            MIT did not do away with the test requirement.

            The story you are commenting in is "MIT reinstates test requirement." That would suggest that the above statement is false.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        From what I've read Asian American families tend to spend more on education, which helps bring them up to the same level as wealthy white families. That said, in the UK there are a lot of people born into wealth who are quite thick, mostly because despite having excellent schooling they realized early on that even if they make no effort they will succeed.

    • Consider that being able to more accurately test students may also allow them to better serve the disadvantaged who they believe have the aptitude, but not the resources. If they can be reasonably certain that a certain significant percentage are ready, while some other smaller percentage need extra care but could make it, then perhaps that's something that's worth more to them than a complete crapshoot. Resources are finite, so being able to more accurately determine resource allocation based on incoming
  • I love the CNN writer here shitting all over people who can't get into MIT, people with very specific complaints about this policy (writers imagination of SJW opponents), and whoever wrote MIT's statement all at the same time while they themselves aren't qualified to get into MIT or even write a clear and sane news blurb. But good job, way to shit on those SJWs or whatever CNN writer.

    In saner news, good on MIT for trying a new thing, seeing it didn't work, then rolling back the thing they tried while cle
  • Talk about a distortion by the press -- University of California is still using a standardized test, but just doesn't want to use the ones that the companies running the ACT and SAT are making money on. Standardized tests were literally created because college admissions were so subjective and discriminatory. But also these test companies are really not being run in either the students' or the universities' interests but in their own financial interest.

    • University of California is still using a standardized test

      No it isn't.

      My son applied to UC this year, received his acceptance letter last week, and will start classes in the fall.

      He did not submit his SAT scores to UC and didn't take any other standardized test.

      UC's website states that they do not use any standardized tests for admissions and have no plans to require any standardized tests in the future.

  • It's well known that graduating at the top of a less prestigious college is much better for life success than graduating at the bottom of an Ivy League university. The exception is if someone is sufficiently accomplished in non academic things such as sports that being near the bottom of the class doesn't ruin their confidence. But if you take a disadvantaged student and admit him or her without a test that proves their aptitude (or genuine non academic qualification) you are needlessly ruining their potent

    • So is the solution to turn all higher education into diploma mills? That's what we're headed towards.

    • Where is this well known? The primary value in going to Ivy League school is to network with like minded students. Except for perhaps your first job nobody cares about your grades.

  • There are really three categories of colleges and universities. The use of standardized tests varies:

    - Public institutions, i.e., state-run schools, should allow anyone to attend who has a high school diploma (or equivalent). However, they then need "weeder" courses to eliminate those people who do not actually belong in college. Note: "weeder" courses, not remedial courses. Someone without the required capabilities and/or knowledge must acquire them elsewhere, or choose a different career path. There is

  • 2020: "We're getting rid of SAT/ACT tests as a barrier to admission because they hurts your feels."
    2022: "We're reinstating the SAT/ACT testing because we want to maintain our standards and encourage the best and brightest to apply."

    Diversity doesn't mean racing to the bottom, it means giving people a fair chance regardless of gender, age, or race. When you start putting your hand on the scale and favor one group over another you hurt us all. We are missing that in the conversation.

  • At least someone is still holding to objective standards.
  • After all if you can buy your child the best tutors and test preparation money can buy - You want the admissions criteria to be based on those factors.

    • After all if you can buy your child the best tutors and test preparation money can buy - You want the admissions criteria to be based on those factors.

      Yeah, let's not consider the many real and likely reasons, and just jump straight to conspiracy theories that make no sense.

  • Incoming class was clearly not up to scratch. SATs and ACTs are trivial exams esp the math part for most of the qualified. Expecting a written essay or grades to substitue is pure delusion. No idea who in their right mind would drop these trivial exams as a means of getting candidates, unless it was replaced with a unique exam made to be less disrciminitory in the verbal sections which are meaningless anyway and should be ignored (and are also trivial). Make a better exam is fine.. dropping the exam is

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      Incoming class was clearly not up to scratch. SATs and ACTs are trivial exams esp the math part for most of the qualified. Expecting a written essay or grades to substitue is pure delusion.

      But was the incoming class not good enough because of the lack of testing or because the pandemic screwed up their education and socialization so badly?

      No idea who in their right mind would drop these trivial exams as a means of getting candidates, unless it was replaced with a unique exam made to be less disrciminitory in the verbal sections which are meaningless anyway and should be ignored (and are also trivial). Make a better exam is fine.. dropping the exam is a recipe for disaster.

      It was dropped because it was infeasible to do standardized testing during lockdowns, so a lot of students who would ordinarily have been able to take the test more than once were unable to do so, and poorer students for whom the cost of taking the test might have been an issue and who might thus have opted to put it off and take it only once at the last min

  • Standardized tests worst, except all others tried (Score:3)

    by nealric ( 3647765 ) on Wednesday March 30, 2022 @08:54AM (#62402597)

    There are tens of thousands of different high schools in the country, with a huge variation of grading methods, curricula, and levels of rigor. High school grades alone can't select the highest achieving students. Nor can extra-circulars (access to which are often determined by family circumstances), recommendations (almost everyone gets good ones), or essays (no way to ensure they weren't ghost written).

    Standardized tests certainly have plenty of failings, but the cold truth is that there has to be SOME objective measure of academic preparedness if you are attempting to select a class from those with the highest academic potential. With all their faults, standardized tests have the virtue of being the same basic test for every applicant.

    AP tests might be a pretty good substitute for the SAT/ACT, as they measure actual academic achievement rather than "aptitude". But the problem there is some high schools don't offer AP classes, or only offer a handful. They also don't have much resolution, only supplying scores from 1 to 5, so you can't use them to pick out the difference between high achieving and the absolute highest (which are what schools like MIT are after).

    • There are tens of thousands of different high schools in the country, with a huge variation of grading methods, curricula, and levels of rigor. High school grades alone can't select the highest achieving students.

      Texas has a system that is exactly that, the highest performing students, by school, get automatic admission.

      https://www.educationnext.org/... [educationnext.org]

      It replaced earlier diversity efforts. Sure it's not perfect but that system should increase diversity overall a bunch of ways, urban/rural, wealthy/poor districts, plus racial diversity.

  • In other news, water has been determined to be wet.

  • The standardized tests have shown to be the best indicator that a prospective student is set up for success. Schools were pressured to do away with the standardized tests because certain groups of people were not performing well enough, compared to certain other groups, to gain admission. What the schools are finding is that some of the students from the underrepresented groups are not being successful. This isn't the fault of the student necessarily.

    Rather than ask the hard questions around why certain gro

  • I believe that well-known universities such as MIT should accept students depending on their level of knowledge and competence. And lowering the minimum threshold to take students from minorities only worsens the level of the university and its results. Everyone needs to be educated and qualified, but not everyone needs to study at the best universities. That's why I recommend https://samploon.com/free-essa... [samploon.com] for anyone who wants to learn something interesting about mathematics, but does not want to learn

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