Amazon To Cover 100% of College Tuition for US Hourly Employees (cnbc.com) 200
Amazon said Thursday it will offer to pay 100% of college tuition for its 750,000 U.S. hourly employees. From a report: The e-commerce giant is following the lead of other large U.S. companies who are dangling perks like education benefits or more pay to woo workers in a tight job market. Starting in January 2022, Amazon said it will cover the cost of college tuition, fees and textbooks for hourly employees in its operations network after 90 days of employment. It will also begin covering high school diploma programs, GEDs and English as a second language certifications for employees. Operations workers include employees in Amazon's sprawling network of warehouses and distribution centers.
The benefit will apply to hundreds of education institutions across the country, Amazon said. Amazon previously offered to pay for 95% of tuition, fees and textbooks for hourly associates through its career choice program. Rival retailers, including Walmart and Target, have also beefed up their education benefits in recent months. Target in August rolled out a program that covers the cost of associate and undergraduate degrees at select schools. Walmart in July said it would pay 100% of college tuition and books costs for associates of Walmart and Sam's Club.
The benefit will apply to hundreds of education institutions across the country, Amazon said. Amazon previously offered to pay for 95% of tuition, fees and textbooks for hourly associates through its career choice program. Rival retailers, including Walmart and Target, have also beefed up their education benefits in recent months. Target in August rolled out a program that covers the cost of associate and undergraduate degrees at select schools. Walmart in July said it would pay 100% of college tuition and books costs for associates of Walmart and Sam's Club.
And this is bad, why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Waiting for the flood of irrational Amazon-haters proclaiming why this is such an evil move.
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Including offering us affordable items, with cheap shipping. Very evil. Don't fall for it, pay MSRP, and as much as you can for shipping.
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Yes, the items were affordable because Amazon was pressuring sellers to keep prices down in various ways monopolistic ways (including producing knockoff items) and the shipping was cheap because Amazon set performance targets that delivery drivers couldn't reach without peeing in bottles, shitting on roadsides, and crossing roads in dangerous ways.
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Don't fall for it; every penny you save costs someone else their health and livelihood, from the Uighur "prisoners with jobs" who make those products
FTFY
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> Including offering us affordable items, with cheap shipping.
The more you exploit your workforce, the lower your overhead, and the lower your prices can be while still being profitable. Slave labor produces very cheap products and services.
And now the slaves get paid for their college education.
In truth, and given my experience in a university setting, not that many people will take advantage of a free college education.
Why? Because in my experience I've found that it is easier to remain where you are, and claim that sinister forces are keeping you down than to actually do something, I know many people who might have made something of themselves, but always had something to blame for them not.
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And now the slaves get paid for their college education.
They also hand over a very strong carrot/stick combo to have lorded over them. Once they've sunk a couple of years worth of nights and weekends into college classes, a threat to take it away (and therefore "waste" all of that sunk time) is a pretty powerful one.
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So you think that Amazon can somehow take their accumulated credits away if the person leaves the company? That's not how college works.
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And now the slaves get paid for their college education.
They also hand over a very strong carrot/stick combo to have lorded over them. Once they've sunk a couple of years worth of nights and weekends into college classes, a threat to take it away (and therefore "waste" all of that sunk time) is a pretty powerful one.
Good lord. That isn't wasted. Having a free education while you are working and supporting yourself, is indeed a powerful incentive to stay. It's like what I'm doing now. I get paid quite a lot - enough to entice me to come out of retirement. But the pay is a damn fine incentive to stay.
Free college is also a fine incentive to stick around. And as cusco notes in the post below, college credits are transferrable, in the event you want to quit, get a new job, and pay for your own education.
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Don't fall for it; every penny you save costs someone else their health and livelihood
While in practice that's true most of the time, it's not universally true. It's very possible that the pennies the company saves you comes off its own profit instead of cutting worker pay/benefits of squeezing suppliers.
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It's probably an evil move, but it's not obvious how or why. I say it's probably an evil move because it's something Amazon is doing, and history teaches us that nearly everything Amazon does is evil.
A cursory glance through TFA and reading the summery doesn't state how long after the degree the employee must work for Amazon...
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Don't know where you live, but in the US they can leave whenever they want. This is not a loan that has to be paid back when employment ends, Amazon is paying their tuition, not signing them up for indentured servitude.
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I've worked in the US at companies that had, "We'll pay your 4 years of college, presuming you'll work with us for 2 years after minimum," type clauses.
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I'd think it would be obvious. Amazon is about to eliminate all or nearly all US jobs done by humans. They'll move what can be moved across borders and then in 2-4 years they'll be employing a bunch of machines and a few thousand people to maintain them and require college degrees for those people so they won't need or have time for more classes.
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They've been saying that for 10 years.
It is relatively easy to build a welding robot, or a "cheetah" (that is really modeled on a goat) that can run an obstacle course, but replacing fingers, hands, and eyes at the same time without damaging the merch is hard. Really hard. And the customers get exceptionally surly if you ship them empty boxes, which makes the returns a big hassle.
It gets to the point where you replace a worker taking 3 seconds to pick up the item and place it in the box with a robot that ca
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Re:And this is bad, why? (Score:5, Insightful)
This could be considered "evil" because instead of paying their employees more and letting the employees choose how to spend their money (such as on things that the employee considers to be needed,) Amazon is "forcing" them to make a certain choice (potentially primarily for the benefit of Amazon.) An analogy would be giving someone a gift card to a specific store (that they may never shop at) instead of a generic debit card that is good anywhere.
Disclaimer. I don't necessarily think what Amazon is doing is "evil", but I can see a potential negative side.
Re:And this is bad, why? (Score:5, Insightful)
i know at least one person that got a warehouse job strictly to get their college career funded. so it can work both days. work with them when you are 18, get your college paid, then quit for a better job once you have the paper
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Disclaimer. I don't necessarily think what Amazon is doing is "evil", but I can see a potential negative side.
Then elaborate instead of this crap.
An analogy would be giving someone a gift card to a specific store (that they may never shop at) instead of a generic debit card that is good anywhere.
Amazon is offering both high school and higher education benefits for all hourly employees. They are not limiting that to a specific school, or a specific degree. Your "analogy", isn't one.
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Disclaimer. I don't necessarily think what Amazon is doing is "evil", but I can see a potential negative side.
Then elaborate instead of this crap.
Doesn't like Amazon, so cognitive dissonance kicked in. Cannot accept a company doing something productive for it's employees. Seems the most likely explanation.
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Disclaimer. I don't necessarily think what Amazon is doing is "evil", but I can see a potential negative side.
Then elaborate instead of this crap.
Doesn't like Amazon, so cognitive dissonance kicked in. Cannot accept a company doing something productive for it's employees. Seems the most likely explanation.
And 90% of that stance is understandable given the impact (monopoly) Amazon has had on small business. However, in this case, I agree with you in the sense that it seems like the attack is rather unjustified.
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Its only evil if you think adults should not be able to make contracts freely. I should be free to market my labor for any for of compensation I choose.
Its nobodays damn business but mine and my employer's if I elect to get paid in cash, tuition vouchers, chickens and potatoes, grape soda or anything else.
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Its only evil if you think adults should not be able to make contracts freely. I should be free to market my labor for any for of compensation I choose.
Its nobodays damn business but mine and my employer's if I elect to get paid in cash, tuition vouchers, chickens and potatoes, grape soda or anything else.
It's also nobody's damned business how much you and your employer agree that you should get paid. Minimum wages should be abolished. For that matter, we should get rid of mandates for benefits, overtime, etc., too. That said, collective bargaining should have legal protections so that employees can combine to balance the negotiating power of the employers.
FWIW, this is the situation in the Nordic countries. Actual labor regulations are sparse to nonexistent, but labor unions have negotiated pretty good de
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This could be considered "evil" because instead of paying their employees more and letting the employees choose how to spend their money (such as on things that the employee considers to be needed,) Amazon is "forcing" them to make a certain choice (potentially primarily for the benefit of Amazon.)
That is about the lamest thing I've heard all week, and I've been dealing with ivermectin trolls.
A benefit that will allow a person to obtain a degree, and if they choose wisely, one that will allow them to gain reasonable compensation - and you come up with a way to call that benefit evil?
No force involved at all, certainly not like a "forced" retirement plan, or "forced" health care.
A benefit that if you don't use it, you don't use it. Similar to child care offered by some places. Some people do
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> This could be considered "evil" because instead of paying their employees more and letting the employees choose how to spend their money
Today, chastising companies for controlling how an employees money is spent.
Tomorrow, praising how big government is wisely spending your money.
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The correct analogy is your employer paying you in gift cards (generic or otherwise) instead of currency.
In the case where the gift cards are not generic, its historical name is "company scrip".
Re:And this is bad, why? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not necessarily bad but it's also more of a PR stunt. This likely will cost Amazon very little. Even if this includes online self-paced classes, with the hours many people there work, it's doubtful that many people could manage to take very many classes. And you can forget taking a traditional class because they mostly work 10 or 12 hour shifts and work 60 hour weeks during the holidays. https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
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The reason most people don't do that is because they can't.
After working all day plus overtime they are tired. If the subject they are studying is at all difficult then bring tired is going to affect their education. If they have a family too then they won't see them much and if they have young kids they definitely won't have time to do all that.
A small number of people can get by on little sleep and no socialising, and have a job that they can do 12 hours a day consistently. Most do not.
Because it's a token gesture (Score:3)
Note that for many majors today if they find out you're working even part time they'll tell you to get packing, because
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you don't work 40 or even 20 hours a week at a job as brutal as Amazon and then go to school.
I dunno, I worked 40+ hours a week, raised a family and went to school part time.
I think what some might be getting pissed at is that Amazon is offering a path forward.
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You've got your own named troll? Damn, I just have someone who goes out of their way to down-mod my posts, I'm jealous!
I don't think the intention is for people to work at Amazon for a decade while they get their doctorate, most people who work in the FCs or retail outlets (which are most of the hourly positions) need more education for a way out of those dead-end jobs. That would be the community college classes you disparage, but which were sufficient to get me out of construction and into helpdesk and
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Re: Because it's a token gesture (Score:2)
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What about rational amazon-haters?
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I'm sure there is financial gain somewhere and this isn't done out of sheer good will.
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The gain is that a better educated employee is more productive and/or can move to a position of more responsibility. Do you know how many (for example) adequately trained project managers there are out there? A small fraction of the number who are needed. If Amazon can 'grow their own' PMs rather than compete for them on LinkedIn they save on hiring costs, **and** the person has a record within the company so they know what quality of worker they're getting. Same for programmers, robotics techs, enginee
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It is a "win-win".
Silicon Valley companies provide free food. Is this for the benefit of the employee only? Of course not, they get to stay in campus, talk to team mates, and return to work early. It is a win for everyone.
They also provide on site classes for coding, AI, security. The employee obviously benefits, so does the company.
Amazon providing college, hence basic training for math, logic, and other essential subjects is also in everyone's benefit.
So, give unto Caesar... or something like that.
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It's evil, although I don't hate Amazon and I don't think they're necessarily doing it to be evil.
Employment "benefits" are just ways for employers to take part of your pay and put it into things that a) might make it difficult to quit; or b) you might not collect on fully, saving them money. Healthcare is the biggie: can't quit your job because then you wouldn't have health coverage, and you can't possibly afford a non-group rate. "Matched" retirement savings plans are another good one. If you don't make t
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I mentioned some of the benefits to Amazon above in https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]
Having worked there the last 8 years I can confidently say that the company prefers to promote from within unless the external candidate is exceptional in some way. I've worked with security guards and FC box stuffers who educated themselves and showed their initiative and went from contractors to blue badge employees.
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Money you don't keep as a business is usually a tax deduction regardless by one means or another. Any operational expense falls under that. Not sure it matters whether it's payroll, benefits, or whatever. Capital expenses may be different, but that's unrelated enough to not be relevant.
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Money you don't keep as a business is usually a tax deduction regardless by one means or another.
Which means what?
If I were to offer advice, it would be to take advantage of every single opportunity you get offered. I went to university part time with a big discount, racked up the most credits I could take every semester, had three retirement accounts - one the standard account, the other two a taxless deal worked for non profits. The amazing thing is so few others took advantage.
I sometimes wonder if the hatred here is based on people being asked to put their money - oops, activities - where th
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It wasn't a criticism. Just stating the blindingly obvious - businesses should not be taxed on anything they spend, just on what they keep. This would be no exception.
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It wasn't a criticism. Just stating the blindingly obvious - businesses should not be taxed on anything they spend, just on what they keep. This would be no exception.
Well, you might identify it as such when about 80 percent of the people in here are spewing hate towards Amazon.
So does the military (Score:2)
So does the military (for officers at least). Offering a reward for doing a shitty job that no one wants to do is a good strategy but it doesn't make you a humanitarian.
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So does the military (for officers at least). Offering a reward for doing a shitty job that no one wants to do is a good strategy but it doesn't make you a humanitarian.
But it gives you a way out.
The problem I think, is that too many have been sold the idea that everyone can get an exciting career where they can be fulfilled and make a real difference in the world.
Very few careers and jobs are like that. It makes it worse when people who are incredibly lucky go out ant tell people "Follow your passion, and you won't work a day in your life.
Then reality comes out and sticks a red hot poker up people's backsides.
So while too many young people have been sold a bil
Don't confuse "most don't" with "you can't" (Score:2)
Some of the most frequent questions on r/Advice are along the lines of:
I'm in my second year of college at $expensive_school, so I'm finishing up my generals, but I can't decide what I want my real major to be.
Or more commonly:
I just graduated with a degree in $whatever and I'm trying to figure out what kind of work I want to do.
It's very common for people to spend four years and $x0,000 on a university and NOT KNOW WHY. They'll invest all that I to NO KNOWN GOAL.
If you don't know where you're tryin
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It means Amazon can purchase education at a discount. Add in some bulk discounts they can undoubtedly negotiate and you've got education that nobody who's not getting it through their employer can afford. Kinda like US health care.
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It means Amazon can purchase education at a discount. Add in some bulk discounts they can undoubtedly negotiate and you've got education that nobody who's not getting it through their employer can afford. Kinda like US health care.
That ship sailed years ago. And it has nothing to do with Amazon. The concept that unless you had a college degree - any major, bulldozed across the land. It meant that you were a superior being. This was sold to parents, this was sold to children - this created a huge demand for college degrees, any subject, it did not matter, a communications major or gender studies major was considered to be a more worthy human than a master machinist (essentially a masters degree level in maths.
This demand led to peo
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And I'm not completely certain what the fix is. What do you do with people that have very expensive gut degrees?
We're transitioning to a knowledge economy and automation is bottoming out the lower end of the employment market. The reality is that such an economy does not require that many employees. No amount of education, hard work, or determination will fix that in the long run. Businesses should not be expected to hire people they don't need - this is a societal problem. I'm not going to advocate UBI, because it fixates on money. Not that money isn't needed, but it is too loaded of a concept to start from. I
Re: And this is bad, why? (Score:2)
You do not know how tax deductions work.
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You should probably try social democracy instead. It's got a better track record.
Looks like a PHD (Score:2)
Is back on the menu.
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Pretty Hot Date?
Unions (Score:2, Insightful)
Wonder how they will twist this (Score:5, Insightful)
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Just waiting to hear how Amazon will use this to further screw their workforce. I have absolutely no faith in them any more.
It's possible that they do have ulterior motives but screwing over employees isn't one. For example, the real motivation may be to argue that they are doing a hugely good thing for their employees so no need to talk about them being a monopoly that needs to be broken up.
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If you sign up for this, they'll (probably) make you work x years for them or repay the tuition.
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"Oops, I just started college and The Algorithm fired me, and the automated termination email demands I pay them back for this semester."
My guess, anyway.
Companies invest in worker education? (Score:2)
What's next? Parental leave?
Employer Benefits Come With Costs (Score:2)
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The difference between insurance and tuition is that you'll be needing that insurance for the rest of your life. An education only takes a few years and you can put up with a shitty employer until the diploma is in hand. And then leave.
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This is certainly true. But it doesn't solve the core issues involved in the cost of education. In much the same way, most of the health insurance reform proposals we've dealt with (and enacted) leave the cost issue largely untouched. Thus, we get the ACA and still rapidly increasing insurance premiums at the same time.
You might say this isn't Amazon's job, and you'd be right. My concern isn't with Amazon, however. My concern is that the public looks ever more to private employer benefits to address a pro
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Employer based insurance has proven to be nothing short of a disaster. I doubt employer controlled tuition payments will redound to the benefit and independence of the employee.
Since when? I used both, and went to university part time, and my provided healthcare continued after retirement and until Medicare kicked in at which time it reverted to secondary status, so no need to buy a part D and pecker with all the BS.
You'll probably be really pissed that I was able to open 3 total retirement accounts.
If your hatred of a company is so white hot intense that offering a benefit is claimed to be yet another example of their evil - You've formed a narrative the anti-vaxxers would
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Delighted that your employer based healthcare was of a high enough quality that it sustained you until your government funded healthcare kicked in.
My snark is only partial. I really am glad it worked for you. The fact is, however, it doesn't work for a great many and it leads to lock-in for employees that ultimately weakens their bargaining position in the workplace. This latter poi
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Delighted that your employer based healthcare was of a high enough quality that it sustained you until your government funded healthcare kicked in.
My snark is only partial. I really am glad it worked for you. The fact is, however, it doesn't work for a great many and it leads to lock-in for employees that ultimately weakens their bargaining position in the workplace. This latter point is my main concern.
Before we go too far in this direction, make no mistake - I agree the present healthcare system is stupid. The whacked thing is if I were an employer today, Financially I would really want a single payer system. Because the present system is really unstable. How does one make business plans if you have no idea what insurance will cost you. Unstable.
I should sooner any day that employers raise pay equivalent to what these benefits cost and allow employees to use the money to pay for tuition, private healthcare plans, etc. The amount employers must pay for each individual employee healthcare plan is absurd, and most employees don't even realize it. This disrupts market function even more than our distorted system already would.
And - looks like we agree on a bit more than first blush.
My better half was involved in the great insurance imbalance of the late 90's. The rates were going
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Nope, I have great insurance. Funny what happens when a person takes the time to educate themselves, then keep on learning and work hard.
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So, there are only two options? Either this idea is so good that no one should doubt it or the government gets to decide who gets what?
My goodness, I'm glad I don't live in a world composed of such binary dilemmas. You know, there are other possibilities, don't you? Just to think of one very simple straightforward option: Amazon could raise employee compe
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Yeah, screw those Democratic Socialists!
Wait... Where are they?
Oh no!?! Did no one say anything that was necessarily the perspective of a Democratic Socialist? Is it possible that there are more than two ways of looking at the world? Can people doubt the wisdom of employer based benefits outside of pay without necessarily fitting neatly into the gross caricature I project onto the people who might disagree with me?
And if that's the case, maybe the view of the world I've constructed doesn't match reali
Degrees or jobs, which is needed most? (Score:2)
If someone wins the lottery or inherits a million dollars, the quality of life of that person will definitely improve. So let us give everyone one million dollars. What would that do? It will make a loaf of bread cost thousands of dollars, that is
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Amazon already offers their Fulfillment Center employees free training that can help people get out of dead end warehouse jobs, the most popular seems to be the Nursing Assistant certification. They don't **care** if your new education leads you to leave the company, happy employees are more productive for the time that they're there and more likely to recommend the job to other people.
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Not a thing you said is true. Globally wages going up for middle class, middle class growing, people lifted out of poverty. Look it up.
Even in USA there is growth, though not stellar
https://www.pewresearch.org/so... [pewresearch.org].
Quit wailing about doom and gloom you wish were true. Are you perhaps a loser whining about his own failings and hoping for a handout? Nope, get off your ass, train yourself, get a job and work.
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Not exactly as advertised (Score:2)
Well (Score:2)
This is just Amazon pandering because they realize 99% of the country is ready to regulate the hell out of them + tax them. Too little too late.
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Taxation is set by Congress, not by executive order. That's in the Constitution, you should read it some time.
Comment removed (Score:3)
just give them a raise (Score:2)
What is the annual limit? (Score:5, Informative)
Hope they have time without having hours cut (Score:3)
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Or what about people working at Amazon facilities that are in the middle of nowhere, with no school nearby.
While there may actually be some very small number of Amazon facilities "in the middle of nowhere" (since anything's possible) but really, that would go completely counter to their whole distribution model.
Good for them!! (Score:2)
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Considering your average Amazon "worker" probably hadn't graduated high school
I very much doubt that's the case.
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Most people don't realize it but Fulfillment Center staff make up less than a fifth of Amazon employees, and even then a lot of those folks are robotics techs, network admins, HR, and the like. Amazon is more than anything a technology company, with far more programmers than box stuffers.
Re: This will be cheap for Bezos. (Score:3, Insightful)
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Another progressive slashdot IT guy who looks down on people who work in other industries. You guys are such assholes.
I gotta say - Covering tuition and books is one hellava deal. Might take longer to get through school, but a motivated person can do very well here.
Note - the part time student full time work path is what I did. And after a certain amount of time, you are exempt from a lot of the gut classes.
What about the rest? (Score:3)
It's great that young people will be able to work themselves through college without going into debt (kinda like the old days). But I'm sure lots of people at Amazon are just there to support their families and don't have the aptitude or time to do college on the side. Those are also the loyal (or at least struck) employees who won't bail as soon as they finish their education. Maybe in lieu of tuition they can a bonus or something?
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It's great that young people will be able to work themselves through college without going into debt (kinda like the old days). But I'm sure lots of people at Amazon are just there to support their families and don't have the aptitude or time to do college on the side.
Yup, if you are working at your peak ability with whatever you are doing for Amazon, and want to continue that until you retire, you wouldn't go to college.
Those are also the loyal (or at least struck) employees who won't bail as soon as they finish their education. Maybe in lieu of tuition they can a bonus or something?
It's not a specific cash outlay, it's a benefit that people can choose to use or not.
The concept that everyone either gets free college or a cash prize won't work at all.
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I also worked my way through school, but I couldn't have done it with any kind of job that exists at Amazon. At least I haven't heard of one. Most of the time I was a security guard and I only had to make a couple of rounds a night with quite a bit of time for studying.
Also, in those ancient days the tuition was quite low at both of the universities I graduated from. Even allowing for Amazon paying more money, I don't see how the numbers could work now.
(Ah, the memories... There was the summer after my juni
Re: This will be cheap for Bezos. (Score:5, Interesting)
As far as Amazon paying to educate its workforce, great! I laud that move. Sounds like a great perk. They didn't even have to unionize to get it. Fantastic. This basically outsources on-the-job training, to professionals who can accomplish it better and at better economies of scale. I do wonder what limits there are. I highly doubt I can go get a law degree that costs $300k from Stanford paid for by just maintaining an hourly job at Amazon.
Re: This will be cheap for Bezos. (Score:3)
Thatâ(TM)s a dumb assumption .. I bet a majority of amazon factory workers have graduated high school â" 90% of high schoolers graduate nowadays. Also, many of their workers would want to do college classes, which are not free. This is a good move by Amazon, even though people like you are out there to hate them. You are jumping to conclusions without the facts. Lets wait until they release some numbers regarding how many and how much they end up paying to provide this. I have not heard of other c
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Well, you shouldn't have gone to Liberty University, where their biology courses teach Creationism. Sorry you wasted all that time and money.
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Hilariously, I looked that up and it seems Liberty U graduates are pretty well connected which is not surprising if you know what demographic 'we're talking about, so average BS degree starting salary $90K, MBA is $120K