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United States Government

Biden Will Sign an Executive Order To Move Government Services Online (protocol.com) 172

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
The White House is hoping to spur a major technological overhaul of government services with a new executive order President Biden will sign Monday. From a report: The order directs 17 government agencies to modernize the way they deliver critical services to Americans, including by bringing more of those services online. "We looked at the points of greatest friction for people with their government -- filing taxes, applying for social security benefits, waiting in TSA lines -- and focused on ways to reduce that friction," Neera Tanden, senior adviser to the president, said on a call with reporters Monday. Tanden said the administration is focused on reducing the "time tax" on Americans.

The executive order focuses on agencies that have the most interactions with individuals and lays out more than 30 specific updates they need to make, from allowing Americans to renew their passports online to allowing disaster victims to submit photos of damage via their mobile phones. "All of these actions are near term in nature, meaning that they will generally be completed in the coming months, within one year," said Jason Miller, deputy director of management at the Office of Management and Budget.
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Biden Will Sign an Executive Order To Move Government Services Online More

Biden Will Sign an Executive Order To Move Government Services Online

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  • It's about time! (Score:3)

    by ZorinLynx ( 31751 ) on Monday December 13, 2021 @01:57PM (#62076277) Homepage

    I just renewed my passport, and felt like I stepped back into the 80s. Having to take a photo and print a physical copy to send in, fill out a printed application, etc...

    And then while I was waiting for it, it didn't even tell me the application had been received for two months until a week before they sent out my passport!

    This is the kind of thing that should be doable online. Fill out an application, submit the photo online, pay online (this is the only check I've written this year) and mail in the old passport as proof of citizenship. Done!

    • Re:It's about time! (Score:5, Informative)

      by korgitser ( 1809018 ) on Monday December 13, 2021 @02:29PM (#62076465)

      Well yeah. But, to quote the eternal, if accidental, wisdom of former Russian prime minister Viktor Chernomyrdin, "We wanted the best, but it turned out the same as always".

      You can bet your grandma that this will go down like the led balloon that was the Obamacare platform. There will be a huge government contract awarded to a big party sponsor bereft of any competence or experience in software development. The platform will be delivered in twice the time, triple the budget, a quarter of expected functionality, and zero the usability or stability. And once another cash infusion or two actually manage to solve the worst problems and the dust has settled some, you will discover that somehow, everybody is worse off than before.

      Because there is only one thing you need to know about US politics - whatever the issue at hand, whatever the public opinion about it, whatever the rhetoric made about it, the only question of importance is - how can the issue at hand be used to give away government money to party sponsors. What a time to be alive.

      • Yeah I read this :

        All of these actions are near term in nature, meaning that they will generally be completed in the coming months, within one year," said Jason Miller, deputy director of management at the Office of Management and Budget.

        And I nearly painted my screen with what I was drinking....I mean really, a govt entity completing something greater than a 1 page Powerpoint slide show in months, or even less than a year?

        Anyone with ANY experience working with the federal govt. just knows this isn't in

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by q_e_t ( 5104099 )
          So let me get this straight - if the government says it will do something and it will take 5 years, this is too slow and after the electoral cycle thus to be dismissed, and if it says it will do something in the short term then it is too ambitious and to be dismissed. Got it. Thanks.

      • Re:It's about time! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Monday December 13, 2021 @03:37PM (#62076791)

        In the olden days, I took half a day off work to go to DMV and renew my DL. Now I can do it online in 5 minutes. So failure is not inevitable.

        Obamacare was a special case. It was a new program, not an old program moving online. It was hit with a massive surge of activity at the very beginning. Most other portals can ease into service and fix bugs as activity rises.

        Not all states used outside contractors to implement Obamacare. Those that did not had better results.

        Oregon paid Oracle $300M, the highest of any state, and their Obamacare rollout was a debacle.

        Kentucky spent $3M, 1% of what Oregon paid. KY's site was and running on day one. They used a team of state employees with skin in the game, and a track record of working together. Then they starved them of resources, so they had no choice but to implement a clean and simple design.

        • Re:It's about time! (Score:5, Insightful)

          by DesScorp ( 410532 ) on Monday December 13, 2021 @04:36PM (#62077011) Journal

          In the olden days, I took half a day off work to go to DMV and renew my DL. Now I can do it online in 5 minutes. So failure is not inevitable.

          No, but it's heavily in the likely category. Federal government execution of a good idea is almost always a clusterfuck. And that's not even a partisan judgement. It's simply an observation of the nature of the bureaucratic beast. Regardless of what party is in power, the so-called deep state.... the empire of departments and various federal fiefdoms... have their own self interests at heart and their involvement and execution of any reform will almost always compromise and corrupt the reform's intent.

          As the old Washington Post political cartoon about Al Gore's "reduce the size of government" efforts in the 90's put it:

          Al Gore: "I want you to find ways to shrink your agency"
          Bureaucrat: "I'm gonna need a bigger staff for that"

          • Re:It's about time! (Score:5, Insightful)

            by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Monday December 13, 2021 @04:50PM (#62077053)

            It's simply an observation of the nature of the bureaucratic beast.

            I mostly agree but want to point out the hazards of selection bias: The failures make headlines while the successes hum away quietly in the server room.

            I pay my property tax online. I renew my business licenses online. I incorporated online. I interact with DMV online. So there are some successes.

            The most paperbound bureaucracies tend to be:
            1. Anything involving lawyers
            2. Anything involving doctors
            3. Anything involving law enforcement
            4. The state dept
            5. Anything involving contracting and procurement where those using the system have a vested interest in obfuscation.

            • I pay my property tax online. I renew my business licenses online. I incorporated online. I interact with DMV online. So there are some successes.

              I'd point out that 3 of those 4 are state/local government services. Still government, but smaller and less onerous than the feds.

              • I pay my property tax online. I renew my business licenses online. I incorporated online. I interact with DMV online. So there are some successes.

                I'd point out that 3 of those 4 are state/local government services.

                Pedantic nitpick: All four are state & local.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by q_e_t ( 5104099 )

            In the olden days, I took half a day off work to go to DMV and renew my DL. Now I can do it online in 5 minutes. So failure is not inevitable.

            No, but it's heavily in the likely category. Federal government execution of a good idea is almost always a clusterfuck

            I live in the UK, and whilst there have been failures (online arrangements for universal credit have apparently been a mess, and sometimes there are circular application routes for things apparently devised by Joseph Heller) it has mostly been fine, if occasionally clunky and not the most graphically pleasing process.

        • Oregon paid Oracle $300M, the highest of any state, and their Obamacare rollout was a debacle.

          "oracle [...] rollout was a debacle"... enjoy engaging in tautology?

          It's truly astonishing that company is still in business. I've personally been on the end of one semi-botched rollout, one pretty solidly botched rollout (and subsequent roll back with an in house system) and one which isn't strictly botched but is a pretty solid regression and causes more work. And there are so many high profile fuckups.

      • Obamacare rollout sucked but it was fixed not long after. Is it really a big deal? Government services should go online, it is OK even if there are some issues in the beginning.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by taustin ( 171655 )

        And once it turns out to be a complete clusterfuck that doesn't work, they'll stop providing those services face to face to force people to use the online version, which will raise legal issues (and rightly so) for people who don't have and can't get reliable internet access for government services they are guaranteed in the Constitution.

        This won't be a clusterfuck, it will be four or five.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jbengt ( 874751 )

        You can bet your grandma that this will go down like the led balloon that was the Obamacare platform. There will be a huge government contract awarded to a big party sponsor bereft of any competence or experience in software development. The platform will be delivered in twice the time, triple the budget, a quarter of expected functionality, and zero the usability or stability.

        It seems that you are wrong, and there will be at least 17 separate software projects to bring services online:

        The order directs 17 government agencies to modernize the way they deliver critical services to Americans, including by bringing more of those services online.
        . . .
        The White House plans to measure agencies' performance on these goals and publish transparency reports along the way, Miller said.

    • Applying for passports is one thing but the summary mentions "waiting in TSA lines". I'm not sure I see a practical way for airport security to be moved online.

      • It said "waiting in TSA lines" not going through the checks. There are already a number of apps for virtual queues - you can go and sit down and do something else rather than having to stand in line, and it will tell you when it's your turn. Though a better idea would be to employ more staff and get rid of the lines in the first place...

    • Interesting. Few months ago I needed a new passport.

      I went to a photographer who submitted the picture electronically then I completed my passport application by logging in to the police system with my bank verification as identification and filled in the application.

      I paid extra for express service, so 17 hours later I get a text message that the passport is ready to be picked up.

      (As you may guess I do not live in US, just wanted to give a counter example of how it can be elsewhere)

      • Yeah, that's what government looks like when getting the job done is the high priority. Unfortunately for us citizens of the United States, very often the #1 job of government work is to sustain and expand the amount of government work that needs to be done.

        More than that, there are certain programs that must exist by law, but literally nobody wants them to be easier to use, because then people might actually use them and cause the costs to go through the roof. Very often, putting a "hassleocracy" in fron

    • The last time I renewed my passport, I booked an appointment online.
      Showed up at the booked time. No waiting.
      As I already had a passport, few checks were needed, so my picture was taken as was my fingerprints.
      Was out after 10 minutes. Passport in the mail after about a week.

      So yes, it can be done.

  • Once they decide who gets the cloud contract, it'll be a new future of online services.

  • Because TurboTax has been needling the government for years to try and stop free filling.

    • Good question. The government and businesses have all the info the IRS needs. Why should banks/companies send YOU your 1099-INT/1099-MISC/etc, when they could just send them to the IRS? Why should YOU have to fill out the 1040 and all the different schedules, when the IRS could just use software to do all the calculations?

  • Don't forget about Global Entry too -- I don't see the value in having to make an appointment to go to the airport and have 5 minute in-person interview with an agent. Why can't it be a zoom interview. It's not even clear why they do an interview at all rather than just relying on the background check - do they think that I've managed to hide my felony conviction in my records, but will slip up and admit to a felony conviction during the interview? Seems more like a job-creation program for federal border a

    • It's called affirmation. If the officer can affirm that you are who you say you are and that you gave the answers you did, in-person then it's pretty hard to deny that in court. There are some legal implications involved and yes I agree, why do it? The reason is you're gaining certain advantages for a few minutes of inconvenience after waiting what can be months for an appointment. The trade-offs for me at least have been well worth it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by hawguy ( 1600213 )

        It's called affirmation. If the officer can affirm that you are who you say you are and that you gave the answers you did, in-person then it's pretty hard to deny that in court. There are some legal implications involved and yes I agree, why do it? The reason is you're gaining certain advantages for a few minutes of inconvenience after waiting what can be months for an appointment.

        A few minutes of inconvenience? Most people don't live inside an airport -- I live 90 minutes (longer during commute hours) from the nearest major airport where I can schedule an interview, so it takes most of the day to drive out there and home again (with cushion to allow for traffic delays)

        The trade-offs for me at least have been well worth it

        How did you come to this conclusion? What's the *actual* value of having the in-person interviews? Are there any studies showing the value?

        • I used Global Entry and TSA precheck quite a bit, if you figure at least 20min/arrival saved just on precheck alone that more than justifies the time investment. I was making 3 to 4 flights/week pre-covid. I still use it and Global Entry and being able to bypass arrival queues is another time-saver, I've probably saved 2 hours this year alone just on overseas flight arrivals.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by hawguy ( 1600213 )

            I used Global Entry and TSA precheck quite a bit, if you figure at least 20min/arrival saved just on precheck alone that more than justifies the time investment. I was making 3 to 4 flights/week pre-covid. I still use it and Global Entry and being able to bypass arrival queues is another time-saver, I've probably saved 2 hours this year alone just on overseas flight arrivals.

            You're describing the value of Global Entry, I'm talking about the value of the in-person interview.

            • you can't have one without the other, they need to physically see and fingerprint you; those are the rules.

  • Sorry, the ACA (Healthcare.gov) website is a prime example of how this will fall on its face.

    • Right, so we shouldn't even bother trying⦠that kind of thinking would have kept us in caves without fire or the wheel. The website you refer to works pretty well now.

      • after spending billions on it and over budget. [hbs.edu]

        Root Causes

        The myriad of problems experienced during the websites rollout were due to several factors, primarily:

        • Lack of relevant experience. HHS employees and managers had a lot of experience with private insurance markets and maintaining large government projects, but did not have required experience in technology product launches. Key technical positions were unfilled and project managers had little knowledge on the amount of work required and typical product development processes leaving very little time to test and troubleshoot the website.
        • Lack of leadership. There was no formal division of responsibilities in place between the many government offices involved which caused a delay in key decision making or a lack of communication when key decisions were made. For example, the contractor responsible for the log on system estimated a low demand because the initial website plan included the option to shop for products without creating an account or logging in. However, due to technical delays, that functionality was removed from the initial website launch (so all users would need to log in) without increasing capacity.
        • Schedule pressure. Since the launch date was mandated in the Affordable Care Act, HHS employees were pressured to launch on time regardless of completion or the amount (and results) of testing and troubleshooting performed.

        Key Takeaways


        • The key issues discussed above resulted in the rollout of the healthcare.gov website ballooning the initial $93.7M budget to an ultimate cost of $1.7B.

        The Feds can't make a date or do something under or at budget, not now, not ever, never.

        • None of those have anything to do with the Federal government specifically.

          If you think the same things don't happen in private industry, then I have a bridge to sell you.

          • Businesses in general don't have failure rates in IT projects like the feds do. Also from the article I referenced:

            The key issues discussed above resulted in the rollout of the healthcare.gov website ballooning the initial $93.7M budget to an ultimate cost of $1.7B.

            It is easy to observe that the launch of healthcare.gov was a major failure, but this isn’t a particularly unique case. Research has shown that over the past 10 years, 94% of large federal information technology projects were unsuccessful, more than 50% were delayed, overbudget, or didn’t meet expectations and a total of 41.4% were judged to be complete failures. I contend that most of the root causes identified for healthcare.gov are not unique and it is not a surprise the federal government struggles with adapting to new technology. A large, bureaucratic organization that has significant experience in core government policies is likely not adaptable to behaving like a “start-up” and successfully launching new technology.

            Most IT projects in corporations are cancelled before they overrun their budget by a factor of 18 times.
            It's a money maker for IT Suppliers/Consultants and it screws the taxpayers royally.

            • You clearly haven't done much with large businesses.

              So again, your argument seems to be that we shouldn't improve go vernment services online because government can't improve their services by going online? Talk about complete nonsense.

  • How about letting me file my taxes (Score:3)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Monday December 13, 2021 @02:53PM (#62076585)
    Without paying a private company 50 to $80 for the privilege. It would be one thing if I was hiring an accountant. I am not.

    • I file my own taxes. It costs an envelope and fat envelope postage. Last year's taxes were 11 pages. My life is not all that simple from a tax point of view. (All Hail Schedule AI)

      There is also free file fillable forms. They cost nothing but are a pain to use. Paper is actually easier.

      All the forms and instructions are on the IRS website. Unless you own a business there is no reason to pay anyone to do your taxes.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by hondo77 ( 324058 )
      You can file your taxes, for free, by starting at the IRS website. I've been doing it for me and my in-laws for years. Direct deposit of refunds and everything.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by theCoder ( 23772 )

        Last I checked, you were redirected to a for profit tax filing company for that. And AIUI, it's only free if your AGI is lower than a certain amount. I wouldn't be surprised if those companies tried to offer additional services and/or sold information about your finances to advertisers.

        At least the IRS does still create the fillable PDF forms. Though I'd much prefer if I had an account on irs.gov where I could put my information. I'd still probably have to mail them a check, though.

  • Too often these efforts bring even greater exclusion to some...

  • ...& in most of the rest of the EU. There's a one-time show up to a govt office to physically prove you exist & have the necessary ID documents, then they give you a digital key so you can identify yourself to all govt agencies, local & national, online. Not sure how long the digital key's valid for. I think until you tell them you've lost it, i.e. indefinitely. There's actually very few occasions when you have to turn up to anything in person, e.g. to get fingerprinted & collect your nation

  • The quickest and most cost-effective way to eliminate TSA lines, is to eliminate TSA bullshit. Stop doing stuff that takes a long time, and does nothing to add security to the aircraft. Stop making people take off their shoes and pull out laptops and tablets to take even more time for people to get through, as these are clearly stupid things that do nothing - nobody with the TSA PreCheck credential has to do any of that, and it's not like getting TSA PreCheck is hard, or involved. It requires filling out

  • Russia has a central state services portal (gosuslugi) and it is excellent. It simplified paperwork and response times a lot. If US can get anywhere close, it would be a huge achievement. But I seriously doubt it. In Russia it basically took Putin pushing for it hard, and you don't go against Putin. In the US they will fight for years and then the presidents will change and everyone will forget about it.
  • To get them comprehensively and frequently cracked.
  • And not increase any security practices or protections. Should go swimmingly!

  • I'm surprised some of these are still not online. Also, I'm worried how they will handle security.

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