Retailers Surrender To Unprecedented Costs On Online Returns (axios.com) 135
Returning unwanted gifts this holiday season is becoming so expensive for retailers that they just might let customers keep the products -- and issue refunds anyway. Axios reports: The cost of online returns is soaring, contributing to increased prices, product shortages and supply chain stress. Returning a $50 item is expected to cost an average of $33, up 59% from 2020, according to Optoro, a returns processor. Worker shortages and supply chain problems are taking a toll, Optoro CEO Tobin Moore tells Axios. About three in 10 online purchases are returned, according to CBRE Supply Chain.
Retailers are expected to pass on the cost of returns in the form of higher prices. "The consumer pays the price of a free return,â Columbia Business School retail studies professor Mark Cohen told Today. Some retailers, namely Amazon, sometimes tell returners to keep it. It would cost them too much to process a return, Moore says. The challenge for online retailers is to process returns quickly and get the goods back onto their virtual shelves, minimizing depreciation. "The faster you can get a good back to stock, the more you can avoid markdowns," Moore says.
Retailers are expected to pass on the cost of returns in the form of higher prices. "The consumer pays the price of a free return,â Columbia Business School retail studies professor Mark Cohen told Today. Some retailers, namely Amazon, sometimes tell returners to keep it. It would cost them too much to process a return, Moore says. The challenge for online retailers is to process returns quickly and get the goods back onto their virtual shelves, minimizing depreciation. "The faster you can get a good back to stock, the more you can avoid markdowns," Moore says.
You only pay the full cost (Score:5, Insightful)
The argument is that they'll pass the costs on, and to some extent that's true (businesses need to make money). But if businesses are competing then they'll absorb some of those costs in the form of lower profits.
Of course, after 4+ decades of lax or no anti trust law enforcement there's a lot less competition. And prices are going up accordingly.
What can I say? Elections have consequences.
Re:You only pay the full cost (Score:5, Insightful)
The critical thing is that it's 100% unsustainable. If I know that I can just ask for a return and get a free item, I'm going to "return" anything that's not perfect. Lots of people are going to just use this as free goods for the second hand market as income.
That in turn is going to cause companies to be very, VERY rigid on how much you can return before they cut you as a customer. They're going to set metrics like "once someone returns items worth 20% of their total purchases, their account is canceled". Which will be fine until someone buys a very expensive item which actually doesn't work and tries to return it.
I can see this coming. I had to do two returns of expensive christmas presents just today because one came with parts missing and another was not as described. If either of those merchants had this sort of policy, my account with them would be canceled.
And that is also unsustainable - you can't throw out every customer who returns something due to some random metric. You need to be able to figure out if they are abusing your return system for profit or if they are returning their item for a very good reason. These two items would have triggered a lot of metrics around returns.
I honestly don't know how companies are going to navigate this.
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If I know that I can just ask for a return and get a free item, I'm going to "return" anything that's not perfect.
I order most of my online stuff from eBay and I complain about everything that's not a perfect example of the product in question. Obviously nothing is perfect, but something should at least be undamaged and working to spec. Sometimes I accept a discount, sometimes I demand a return. Usually they want it back, occasionally they have told me to keep it — mostly on sales from shippers in China, for obvious reasons.
They're going to set metrics like "once someone returns items worth 20% of their total purchases, their account is canceled". Which will be fine until someone buys a very expensive item which actually doesn't work and tries to return it.
Very expensive items are worth returning. If the item works when returned for being defect
Re:You only pay the full cost (Score:5, Funny)
I order most of my online stuff from eBay and I complain about everything that's not a perfect example of the product in question.
Found the problem. It's Karen, here.
Re:You only pay the full cost (Score:4, Informative)
Found the problem. It's Karen, here.
Well, if she's there, you can keep her. Anyone selling product not as advertised ("new") is committing fraud and they can fuck right off along with you and Karen.
Re:You only pay the full cost (Score:5, Funny)
We tried to send you back but slashdot doesn't accept returns.
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If they did, we could return the dupes. Of course, we'd get every penny back...
Re:You only pay the full cost (Score:5, Insightful)
I order most of my online stuff from eBay and I complain about everything that's not a perfect example of the product in question.
Found the problem. It's Karen, here.
I think the problem is eBay. I used to sell there a lot, it was good in the beginning, but it went to shit when they started automatically approving "not as described" returns on things clearly listed as Not Working, with a photo showing it in three pieces. And it went to shit even more when they killed the ability to leave negative feedback for buyers. eBay feedback is now completely meaningless to sellers, as there's no way for a buyer to get a negative feedback unless they're also selling. It's all about getting people to click that BUY button and rack up the eBay fees, anything that might cause someone to think twice before they click is bad for the bottom line.
Buyers don't read descriptions or look at all the photos anymore, they just see something and say I want that! and click BUY. Which is why you see stuff being sold for parts or not working having a giant red BROKEN banner across the main photo. It's even worse when buyers try to buy an eBay item from a Google search, which often takes the buyer to a dumbed down page that just shows the main photo and very little description and has a big BUY button.
Yes, there are sellers on eBay who will sell a used item as "new" or do other shady shit, and they deserve the returns. But there are also a lot of honest sellers who will put up gobs of photos with red arrows pointing to the defects, and list all of them in the description, and still some asshole is going to buy it and return it and get their money back and get shipping paid both ways, because there are no consequences for being an asshole buyer. Sometimes they also break it or return something else, and unless the seller is enough of an ass-kisser to qualify for Top Rated, there's not much they can do about it. Complain to eBay, which gets a nice form response and is routed straight to /dev/null.
So fuck eBay. I sell elsewhere now, and do OK with less hassle. The market is smaller, because eBay tends to consume or kill its competition before it gets too big, but that's the world now.
re: Ebay sales (Score:3)
Absolutely! I still sell on eBay *very* occasionally, but it's become a last resort with the combination of high fees and unreasonable buyers. I mean, if you sell an item with a great description and photos but the model number is 194544123JR and you accidentally type 194544123JT -- half these people will use it as an excuse to return it for being "not as described" after they damage it first.
The last time I sold several brand new USB-C multi-port adapters on there, this idiot in Florida bid on them and th
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I order most of my online stuff from eBay and I complain about everything that's not a perfect example of the product in question.
That's great if your time is worth nothing. If anything about the listing appears sketchy (especially used items with stock photos, or multiple quantity listings where there's only one "representative" photo of the item and the condition you'll actually receive is random), I won't purchase in the first place. Yeah, you'll win most SNAD disputes as a buyer, but these sort of sellers don't learn (otherwise they wouldn't have listed a clearly used item in the "new" category, or any number of the other things
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That's great if your time is worth nothing.
I have time that I'm not getting paid for, and it only takes a few minutes to handle this stuff.
If anything about the listing appears sketchy (especially used items with stock photos, or multiple quantity listings where there's only one "representative" photo of the item and the condition you'll actually receive is random), I won't purchase in the first place.
Sure, I don't screw with used items with stock photos either. I'm not new. I've been using eBay for almost as long as it's been there.
Yeah, you'll win most SNAD disputes as a buyer, but these sort of sellers don't learn
As long as I get my refund I'm good. Often I get great deals. It's like flea market shopping except I get my money back if it's shit. I have literally never been denied in a dispute. Not once.
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I order most of my online stuff from eBay and I complain about everything that's not a perfect example of the product in question.
No free stuff for you then. I don't know if eBay does it, but Amazon certainly does keep track of how many items you return. If it's very few then they might let you keep items instead of sending them back. If it's a moderate amount they are more likely to pay return shipping. If it's a lot they might ban your account entirely and blacklist your address, screwing over anyone else who lives there too.
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I generally try not to buy stuff from Amazon (and I am largely successful) because fuck Jeff Bezos anyway. But I actually DO sometimes get stuff for free from eBay sellers, it's not worth it for a lot of them to send stuff back. That's not my motivation though, it's just a bonus when it happens. When something is wrong, I complain. My goal is to have the problem addressed. However that is done, it's fine.
Re: You only pay the full cost (Score:2)
You don't have to caught them off right away. You can start by not letting them keep the item. Then you can move on to limiting their number of returns up to a certain dollar amount. Then you can decrease that amount. Then you can cut them off.
Costco's been doing it for decades (Score:4, Interesting)
It's sustainable if you don't stock cheap junk. You do need to exclude a few things people'll treat as rentals (camcorders, laptops and big screen TVs) but it raises sales substantially because you can buy something without worrying about the cost of it not working out.
It also gives a pretty good incentive for companies *not* to make cheap garbage that clogs landfills. But that's the catch, isn't it? If your Walmart you'd much rather sell 10, $20 coffee pots over a person's lifetime, netting $2 bucks a pop on each ($20) than 1 $100 pot netting you $10. Boot theory of economics, or as Tay Zonday put it Razor blades are made to oxidate so you're forever in debt just to shave. [youtube.com]
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I returned a 3 year old TV in 2019. I wasn't expecting to get a full refund, but in the end they offered one. It developed a fault on the screen.
As for razor blades, get yourself a "blade sharpener". It's basically a rubber mat and costs a few bucks. Use it BEFORE you shave to remove the built up layer of shaving gel. Then after you shave don't go too nuts washing the blade, just a quick rinse so that the layer of gel remains on it and protects it from oxidation. Doing that I find that Gillette blades last
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Maybe. I think it's mostly just down to removing any shaving gel residue.
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That's a lot of sharp bits of metal going into landfill.
The advantage with multi blade razors is the speed and safety. I can do my whole face in 30 seconds. I use one of the vibrating razors, seems to get the cut even closer so I have to shave less.
I know some people enjoy shaving and like to use a brush and take their time with it, but I'm not one of them.
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In 100 years, cities will take bids for robots to rip open landfills and recycle everything.
That assumes infinite energy doesn't lead to just incinerating or aciding it away and reprocessing the effluvia.
Or even bother because even more advanced tech made the need and dangers irrelevant.
But there will always be new Doctor Jones and his team of electro robo archaeologists.
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Hmmmm. Should landfill paperwork be scoured for illegality, like taxes and stuff?
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If so, make sure landfills around Washington DC are the first to be treated as such.
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That's a good point, but companies have another problem:
Even if the product is labeled as legitimately returnable, is it worth it to them?
Re: You only pay the full cost (Score:2)
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Imo, about 10% of returns
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The critical thing is that it's 100% unsustainable. If I know that I can just ask for a return and get a free item, I'm going to "return" anything that's not perfect. Lots of people are going to just use this as free goods for the second hand market as income.
That in turn is going to cause companies to be very, VERY rigid on how much you can return before they cut you as a customer. They're going to set metrics like "once someone returns items worth 20% of their total purchases, their account is canceled". Which will be fine until someone buys a very expensive item which actually doesn't work and tries to return it.
I can see this coming. I had to do two returns of expensive christmas presents just today because one came with parts missing and another was not as described. If either of those merchants had this sort of policy, my account with them would be canceled.
And that is also unsustainable - you can't throw out every customer who returns something due to some random metric. You need to be able to figure out if they are abusing your return system for profit or if they are returning their item for a very good reason. These two items would have triggered a lot of metrics around returns.
I honestly don't know how companies are going to navigate this.
The simple answer is what Amazon already does in the UK. A return point.
I accidentally bought the wrong RAM kit via Amazon once. They were cool with me retuning the item and just had to put the item in an Amazon locker at a nearby Morrisons, money was back in my account the next day and bought the correct RAM kit (16 GB instead of 8). Across the UK there are already a variety of logistics companies who do collections from lockers, not just Amazon. Last time I had to send something back to the office (Wor
Re: You only pay the full cost (Score:2, Interesting)
On Amazon Marketplace, Amazon gets an average 4.6% of the selling price. From that they have to pay their costs. On items sold directly by Amazon the gross margin is a bit higher, but after shipping costs and everything the percentage isn't THAT high. There's just not that much profit percentage for them to give up.
If net profit (return on investment) gets much lower than 10%, investors will sell the stock and go elsewhere.
> What can I say, elections have consequences.
Yeah, consequences like prices going
Must be why Amzn is a penny stock... (Score:4, Insightful)
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>Yeah, consequences like prices going up faster than they have in decades.
Inflation cancels debt. That's why all the boomers are sitting so pretty in retirement.
If you have a mortgage, rejoice in having some meaningful inflation.
Re: You only pay the full cost (Score:2)
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Most people are on a variable rate mortgage now, so inflation will just cause your interest rate to rise, eventually.
Really? No one I know of has a variable. I know mine was before I refinanced last year, but that was because I got it before the banks would consider my commission pay instead of base pay, so I couldn't do a Fannie/Freddie. My friends who just purchased in the past few years have fixed rates. Maybe we're an anomaly, but I'd like to see your source on that...
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Most people are on a variable rate mortgage now, so inflation will just cause your interest rate to rise, eventually.
Well, you can't cure stupid. And I'd argue that making stupid decisions SHOULD hurt, otherwise there's not enough incentive for people who are capable of making smart decisions to put in the effort.
If "most people" take a look at historical interest rates (which requires nothing more than a 10 second web search) and say "I want a low rate right now, I'll let future me worry about it if the rates go back up to the 10-15% rates that have occurred multiple times in the past 30 years" then "most people" deserve
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Inflation cancels debt. That's why all the boomers are sitting so pretty in retirement.
It's also the reason TPTB tries to keep inflation low, they don't want to cancel the poors' debt. Then they sell the poors a line of bullshit about how inflation is bad.
Re: You only pay the full cost (Score:4, Insightful)
Going on 14 years of massive quantitative easing and artificial low interest rates. You can't just pump money into the economy indefinitely to bolster the economy, eventually it is going to crash in one way or another. For the politicians, it is a game of musical chairs and hoping your not the one left standing when the music stops.
This is happening all over the world, independent of which government is running things as we've been following America's lead and now the amount of borrowing is so high that there is no easy way out. Imagine interest rates going to a realistic 5% or so and what it would do to peoples (and governments) debts.
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Imagine interest rates going to a realistic 5% or so and what it would do to peoples (and governments) debts.
They would decrease.
Re:You only pay the full cost (Score:4, Interesting)
What can I say? Elections have consequences.
Ever since the Citizens United decision [wikipedia.org], corporations have been getting the leadership they've been paying for. You think business actually want competition? Competition reduces profits and makes shareholders sad pandas.
There really isn't an easy fix for this. You're faced not just with the need to cultivate a healthy competitive market, but also the need to encourage people to spread their money around. As we've seen with social media, herd mentality alone can sustain a monopoly. As difficult as it may be to get individuals to admit to it, collectively, the American public loves doing business with FAANG.
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But if businesses are competing then they'll absorb some of those costs in the form of lower profits.
But businesses competing with others in the same space realise they all suffer the same problem and proceed to actually pass on costs. You can see that clearly with produce companies. I remember reading in the new that one local supermarket chain was absorbing the cost of a wholesale rise in milk from their supplier. Just their supplier? Curious... why don't they change supplier.
2 weeks later another major supermarket chain announced they *doubled* the price of milk citing the wholesale supply as the reason
lots of stats (Score:2)
Re:lots of stats (Score:4, Insightful)
Stupid business model falls apart. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Stupid business model falls apart. (Score:5, Insightful)
It wasn't a "stupid business model." Reassuring a customer that they could return something, even if they just didn't like it, helped close the sale instead of the customer walking. Customers usually keep what they buy, but walked customers rarely return.
Then the frauds and abusers came to take advantage of a policy meant to help honest customers make a decision to buy.
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Most people are not frivolous complainers, and it's often cheaper to eat the loss than pay for return shipment of something that might be damaged.
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Re:Stupid business model falls apart. (Score:4, Informative)
If I recall, Amazon was literally destroying returned goods instead of reselling them as open box.
It's a fairly common practice. I did some work at a recycling company and one of the things they did was get the crates of stuff that was "returned" via USPS. USPS would pick it up and notify the vendor that it was returned, then it would go in a bin to be bought/picked up by recyclers. It was never actually returned to the vendor.
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If I recall, Amazon was literally destroying returned goods instead of reselling them as open box.
It's a fairly common practice. I did some work at a recycling company and one of the things they did was get the crates of stuff that was "returned" via USPS. USPS would pick it up and notify the vendor that it was returned, then it would go in a bin to be bought/picked up by recyclers. It was never actually returned to the vendor.
Stores do that as well. Even if it’s marked as RTV it may simply go into the trash and the vendor credit the store since the hassle and cost of accepting a return isn’t worth it.
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The incredible majority of this stuff ends up at liquidation or donation centers, not landfills.
People make it sound as if Amazon and other companies just send tens of millions of dollars to the landfill. That would be very poor business.
As an example, the local Habitat for Humanity here receives almost every single thing returned to Costco, because they don't put returned goods back on the shelf.
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At some point online retailers will probably switch to final sale, charge a restocking fee or make you go in person to return the product.
In Amazon’s case I doubt it as it would probably impact Prime subscriptions which probably are their largest margin item and what ties shoppers to them.
I'm actually surprised a retailer has so much free cash to refund money and let you keep the item.
I’ve had Amazon do that a few times, generally for low cost items sold by a third party. I’m guessing the 3rd party absorbed the costs.
Re:Stupid business model falls apart. (Score:5, Informative)
If I recall, Amazon was literally destroying returned goods instead of reselling them as open box. So clearly the online business model is for items to go supplier to buyer and not the reverse. At some point online retailers will probably switch to final sale, charge a restocking fee or make you go in person to return the product. I'm actually surprised a retailer has so much free cash to refund money and let you keep the item. (Amazon used to do this for trinkets, but not lately it seems) I personally wouldn't mind if online sales shifted to a stricter return policy like this.
I'm very involved in this situation, and there's more going on here than many realize.
Imagine you're selling laptops on Amazon. You send them to FBA, Amazon ships when they sell, and then cuts you a check. If somebody wants to return a laptop, Amazon takes care of the customer service too, and likely gives a refund (on your behalf... it's your money).
When you log into Seller Central, the dashboard for your Amazon store, you might see you've got 10 "unsellable" laptops, with very generic descriptions about the reason. Like 3 customer damage, 2 defective, 2 warehouse damage, and so on.. Amazon will ask what you want done with your unsellable laptops, and they give you a couple basic options:
Dispose: They will charge you to dispose of the laptops. Then they actually do a more detailed inspection to see what they're worth. From there, your laptops may end up on "Warehouse Deals", they might be added to a liquidation pallet sold to the highest bidder, OR they might be thrown in the trash. I am only speculating
this is what happens, but there is strong evidence to indicate it's very close to reality.
Removal: They will ship your "unsellable" laptops to a US address, and charge a nominal fee.
Here's the dirty secret: In my experience, Amazon's decision a product is "unsellable" is often wrong over 80% of the time. I know this because my company processes "Removals" for people. We often see things like an "unsellable" $600 leather jacket, which Amazon refunded, and guess what's actually in the box? A bottle of whiteout. I'm not joking.
You get what you get (Score:5, Insightful)
Push products by using targeted advertising based on stolen privacy.
Sell people crap on line by using poorly constructed and deceptive product descriptions.
Manipulate people's perceptions of product quality by purchasing fake product reviews and threatening action against truth speakers
You get what you get.
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Two wrongs and a right, eh?
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This contributes a lot.
If Amazon could magically eliminate dishonest sellers and their garbage products, they would have less returns and they could probably have a more restrictive set of return policies. People would be getting honestly advertised products of some actual quality which would result in a lot less disappointment and returns.
Amazon is more or less forced to have liberal return policies because they'd rather not police their sellers or their products very much.
There's also the old idea that t
I Changed Purchasing Habits Due to Prime (Score:5, Informative)
Interesting.
Personally I changed purchasing habits because of Amazon Prime's return guarantees. I became much more willing to take a risk on a product... And honestly I still don't make many returns, unless the product is literally defective or (in one case) they only sent one of the two welding foot protectors we ordered...
If free, guaranteed returns go away I imagine I'll go back to buying a lot less.
Re:I Changed Purchasing Habits Due to Prime (Score:4, Insightful)
> Personally I changed purchasing habits because of Amazon Prime's return guarantees.
In marketing, both online and retail, this is precisely the intent of "free return" policies. Every marketer knows that one of the possible objections to getting a sale is, "What if I don't like it?" Assuring the customer that they can return a purchase, even for as trivial a reason as not liking it, helps get the sale instead of the customer walking. Most customers keep what they buy.
This policy has been abused, of course, by frauds who use the policy as a rental service. They buy everything from clothes to jewelry to video cameras to Christmas lights with no intention of keeping them past the immediate need.
And now, further, it's resulting in a serious rising business cost and even added tons of garbage into landfills. It won't take long before the benefit of overcoming customer "what if I don't like it" hesitancy is cancelled by the cost of returns and fraud.
Return for store credit / gift cards, not cash, will be the future.
Re:I Changed Purchasing Habits Due to Prime (Score:4, Interesting)
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Clothes are the big item. I've seen how people shop online for clothing and it's atrocious. They find a shirt they like, then buy it in every size from S to XXL. It arrives. then they try it all one
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Personally I changed purchasing habits because of Amazon Prime's return guarantees.
Personally, I was using eBay with its a buyer protection guarantee before Amazon even existed. I have literally always gotten my money back or a replacement product if I had a problem with an eBay purchase. Literally. I don't understand how so many of you think Amazon invented the money back guarantee.
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There are a lot of bullshit requirements and sometimes they want to take the cost of a UPS pick up out of the item which makes it not worth returning. Speaking from experience here. Of course you're free to take it to some drop location, but that's a hassle and as I can't drive, not even possible.
Amazon Europe is actually pushing for returns (Score:4, Interesting)
Bought an item last week, priced at 75 euro. Amazon reduced it by 5 bucks THE NEXT DAY and I contacted their CS for a discount. Told them that since I have free returns and I could easily just re-purchase the item, might as well they issued me a partial refund with the difference.
Their answer: nope, no discount, "you should buy the item again and return". They basically would rather pay another round trip of postage (the returned item, and the new one) than give me the 5 eurobucks. Shipping isn't cheap for my area either: I once returned an item to Amazon at cost with the most cost-effective, no insurance option and got charged like 15 euros.
Of course they may also be gambling on me not doing the return/reorder thing. Unfortunately for them, I did reorder, and will even be using the first item while the new one arrives. And will even be returning the old one because it's a serial item, so they will only be able to sell as refurb, which is more of a loss on them. Sometimes I don't get their business tbh.
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They may be playing chicken with people who are deliberately abusing the return policy. That's the only thing I can think of, because yeah, it doesn't make sense to ship something that is mostly air (I bought some file boxes) back to them at their expense, if only one box out of a set if bad (they made me return the entire set, instead of the one item that was bad).
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Jeebus... Do they not have some sort of environmental impact policy which prohibits them from encouraging people to return items and have new ones shipped out at a lower cost? Especially in Europe, where people tend to be far more socially conscious than America?
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It's policies which cause this problem. The policy says no discounts if you already paid and no partial returns etc, but full returns are ok so people follow it rigidly despite the fact that it makes no sense and costs more.
Re:Amazon Europe is actually pushing for returns (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Amazon Europe is actually pushing for returns (Score:4, Interesting)
So what a lot of stores will do is offer a "return / rebuy" option. You should be able to just bring the cardboard box that has the barcode on it back, they scan it as a return, than you buy it again.
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I asked Customer Service if I could have a price guarantee rebate and they said too late, but suggested I could return the TV for a refund and buy one at the new price. I said, would somebody really have the gall to drag in a 65" TV that is perfectly good and do that? They said, people do it all the time.
They are literally asking you to do that, not just with their behavior (which is sufficient, frankly) but by the CSR telling you that you could do it.
I didn't do it.
Next time, do it. If enough people do it eventually they will change their policy, and offer price drop refunds instead as it is cheaper.
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Some people stick to policies like this, even when the policy makes absolutely no sense.
Usually people don't want to take any responsibility and can cover their own ass by blaming the policy.
Sometimes people just blindly follow it and never try to think logically.
In other cases the system simply isn't flexible enough so even if they want to give you the $5 refund the system simply won't let them.
Also in europe if you are returning defective goods, the seller is liable for all costs, so if you have to pay to
Re: Amazon Europe is actually pushing for returns (Score:2)
I have had the same experience in the US, multiple times. In fact, it has happened when the item is STILL IN TRANSIT! They say I can't cancel, but I can refuse it when it comes. Fuck that, if they're going to inconvenience me with such a dumb policy, I'll make them pay as much as possible to take it back.
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I have had the same experience in the US, multiple times. In fact, it has happened when the item is STILL IN TRANSIT! They say I can't cancel, but I can refuse it when it comes. Fuck that, if they're going to inconvenience me with such a dumb policy, I'll make them pay as much as possible to take it back.
That’s odd. I’ve canceled items, even on the day it was out for delivery, with it showing up as “Refused” and I never had to deal with the Amazon driver.
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Of course they may also be gambling on me not doing the return/reorder thing.
Of course they are. They said "no please jump through these hoops". The hoops are a big barrier to people. Not just physical, but in this case psychological, I mean what you're doing is abusing a policy not designed for the purpose you are using it for. That puts people off.
Already happening (Score:2)
Ordered a few books from Amazon, and as usual they threw them in a large box qwith no padding. One of them was fairly well mangled, and so as these were meant to be gifts my wife told Amazon she wanted to return one...
Even though we have several Amazon return options (like Whole Foods and Koihls) in close proximity, Amazon just said "oh well, keep the book and we'll give you a refund". We went to Borders to get the replacement, which still exists no thanks to us.
That was a good scenario but I have a less
Re:Already happening (Score:5, Informative)
We went to Borders to get the replacement, which still exists no thanks to us.
The last Borders closed in 2011.
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Borders and B&N are basically the same from the outside, and on the inside, so it's understandable.
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If disposal is going to cost you, then just return it unsolicited. They will have to dispose of it.
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Free stuff (Score:3)
People are getting the message. "If I "return" this, I'll get to keep it and get my money back too." Of COURSE this is going to encourage an increase in returns. Sellers are eventually going to have to require those returns just to keep the business model from falling apart completely.
Re: (Score:2)
People are getting the message. "If I "return" this, I'll get to keep it and get my money back too." Of COURSE this is going to encourage an increase in returns. Sellers are eventually going to have to require those returns just to keep the business model from falling apart completely.
Let's understand something about the model: in many cases, the primary cost factors of an item are shipping and marketplace commissions. Think about it: if you produce a t-shirt in Pakistan, you've got to ship it to a US warehouse. From there, it ships to a customer. If they want to return the shirt, it ships a 3rd time. To reclaim any value from the returned shirt... now it'll ship a 4th time.
In reality, "keep the return" is mostly happening in two cases. In the first case, it's inexpensively produced item
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, I get the financial incentives to NOT process returns. To the customer who gets "free" stuff, none of that matters, they don't care one bit about the shipping challenges of the seller.
In large part, this is about sellers failing to "count the cost" of the things they sell. That cost includes shipping, but also includes return shipping. Oops! Forgot about that expense!
If you're going to go into business, it's important to account for the complete life cycle of costs. They don't forget about you.
Clothes.... (Score:3)
buying clothes online is just a terrible idea. clothes don't fit. you have to return them.
i just had a christmas gift that didn't fit. gifter exchanged it for another product. didn't fit again... it doesn't help that it seems like every clothing company has a different "medium" size.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah the good part is when a larger clothing company has a consistent sizing in their range. There are few clothing shops I order from online regularly and I've never needed to return anything. But the reason for that is that in the past I went into their store and tried on their wares and I know what sizes fit me.
Re: (Score:2)
buying clothes online is just a terrible idea. clothes don't fit. you have to return them.
I used to say that... then I got myself measured and I know what sizes to buy.
Most places will have a size chart for S,M,L sizes. https://www.asos.com/discover/size-charts/men/shirts/ [asos.com]
Online retailers have a much larger selection to choose from than brick and mortar.
Re: (Score:2)
Most places will have a size chart for S,M,L sizes.
You will have to refer to such a chart for every garment you purchase, literally, because not only do different brands have different ideas of sizes but also different garments from the same manufacturer will have different dimensions for a given size as well. If such a chart is not produced for literally every garment then the chart is a lie because literally no manufacturer has such excellent sizing control that one chart works for all their garments.
Online retailers have a much larger selection to choose from than brick and mortar.
And yet you still can't try on anything to see if it ac
Buying Clothing (Score:3)
It means I have to do a lot of online shopping, and I have to purchase several items to find something that fits and then return the others. So I'll buy an XL-Tall and a 2XL-Tall and return one of them, because in some cases I need an XL and in others a 2XL and there's never any consistency.
An online retailer that offers tall-and-fat clothes, with easy free returns will continue to get my business, even if their prices are higher than the competition.
Re: (Score:2)
Shops didn't sell clothes for me either.
I lost 70 pounds and I was able to buy clothes in shops.
But by then I was adept at using quality online suppliers of semi bespoke or configurable clothes and it's a lot better than the dross they sell in stores. So I continue with that.
Re: (Score:2)
It's not rare, most of the brands just have a differently-labelled, more expensive version they want you to buy. You're just right at the edge where sometimes you can still buy the regular one. Get a little fatter and you'll see; once you switch to paying the higher prices, you'll see there are sizes much taller and fatter than your size.
You say you'd be willing to pay more, but why aren't you?
Re: (Score:2)
I find the opposite. I buy a lot of XL clothes just to get a little extra sleeve length, knowing that they’ll be baggy as well, but that that looks less goofy.
Mileage varies, I guess.
I just don't bother with random gifts... (Score:2)
... I just buy whatever is needed like food and drinks. Everyone will want that. Money and gift cards work too when they can use it. ;)
Re: (Score:2)
I took a sip and decided I don't like this drink, so I'd like to return it.
Misleading: 3 in 10 Online Purchases Returned (Score:2)
"About three in 10 online purchases are returned, according to CBRE Supply Chain."
No. The exact comment there is "CBRE Supply Chain estimates that at least 30% or $66.7 billion worth of holiday purchases will be returned"
One expects a massively higher return rate for holiday purchases than regular purchases--since buyers are much less accurate about what gift recipients want than about their own personal needs and wants.
Re: (Score:3)
What to do about abusive returns? (Score:2)
3 in 10 is pretty high if true (Score:2)
Bait and Switch (Score:2)
How to make a bad problem even worse (Score:2)
Super complicated return policies (Score:2)
I once ordered a subwoofer from a local electronics shop. Oh no I ordered it from the local equivalent of Amazon but the supplier was this local electronics shop (COVID, it was closed or I'd have just driven there to get it). It had a fault so I called up the shop and they suggested I exchange it. No biggie... oh wait you didn't buy from us directly...
Well since it was less than 30 days the shop recommended I go through the full returns process and buy the item again. So I did. Filed for the return with the
Simple solution (Score:2)
Stop buying all that crap. It's one thing to order diapers for your kid. You know what you need. It's another to buy another Billy Bass [yahoo.com].
Clothers should only be bought in stores. You can see what their true colors are, how the material feels, how they fit, etc. No need to return anything.
Stop buying all that Chinese made crap and things will miraculously work themselves out.
Re: (Score:2)
Clothers should only be bought in stores.
If all the companies that sell clothes online go out of business then clothes WILL only be bought in stores. But catalog sales of clothes predate web based sales of clothes by over a century. If companies selling clothes online still exist, what business is it of yours to tell people not to buy them?
If returns are too much of a problem then the companies handling them will go out of business. If they manage to stay in business then your opinion that they shouldn't exist doesn't matter.
It's good for people t
Supply chain issues (Score:5, Interesting)
Basically the manufacturers are putting out stuff that'd normally not pass QC or that might be destined for discount "B grade" retailers (e.g. Tiger Direct) because they don't have enough of the A grade stuff to sell. Some of it sticks, but a lot of it comes back. To avoid taking a hit in customer service (or more likely lawsuits) they're getting more generous with returns.
Why not setup a second sale shipped from customer? (Score:2)
If returns are so expensive to process, why not give the customer two choices. The first is the usual -- return the goods for a refund.
The second choice is the original retailer markets 'pre-return' goods (at a discount) to a second party. Once the second sale is setup, the retailer pay the original customer a small fee to ship directly to the second party. As it is, the original customer intended to ship goods back -- they may as well ship somewhere else. Everybody benefits.
This will need nimble platforms