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Bitcoin The Almighty Buck

A Major Patreon Survey Shows That Most Creators Don't Want Crypto Payments (techcrunch.com) 74

Posted by BeauHD from the it's-gonna-happen-whether-you-like-it-or-not dept.
According to the results of Patreon's first creator census, 43% of creators are strongly against crypto payments, while 30% said they don't care. "Nine percent said crypto payments would be crucial, while 18% said they would be nice to have," adds TechCrunch. From the report: Out of 250,000 creators active on Patreon, over 13,000 people responded to the survey, representing 113 countries and 18 languages. According to the survey, video is the most popular primary medium on Patreon, representing 38% of respondents. The next most popular categories are writing (17%) and podcasting (14%). Fifty-six percent of Patreon creators consider themselves closer to being seasoned professionals, while 44% say they're closer to just starting out. Interestingly enough, respondents also said that over 40% of their creative income came from Patreon.

[Patreon CPO Julian Gutman] told TechCrunch in December that the company had considered building a small crypto team to examine potential options, but that there weren't any plans set in stone for a plunge into web3. [...] "Some creators, including many who took this survey, are opposed to Patreon building any web3 functionality due to concerns about potential fraudulent behavior, environmental sustainability and inaccessibility of the technology in its present applications," the census report said. "Other creators already offer web3 benefits off Patreon and are excited about the flexibility and value they can offer memberships with new types of digital goods." Sure, crypto skeptics could simply just not use web3 features with their audience. But some creators worry that their audience will be less likely to support them via Patreon if the company dabbles in web3.

For now, Patreon will focus more on building features like a native video player, one-time tipping, gift memberships and a customized landing page layout. "Our focus continues to be on how to give creators more ownership and leverage over their content, and that includes exploring the benefits of web3 technologies," Patreon said in an email to TechCrunch. "However, neither our creators nor Patreon are prioritizing this space right now."
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A Major Patreon Survey Shows That Most Creators Don't Want Crypto Payments More

A Major Patreon Survey Shows That Most Creators Don't Want Crypto Payments

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  • Missed Group (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    As a user (payer), I am also strongly against using crypto payments. Why didn't they survey me?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

      I agree, but one factor today is that anyone doing transactions using cryptocurrency is a target for scrutiny by the authorities these days, so if you get your income in a cryptocurrency then you have to prove that it's not through some illegal connections.

    • 57% say they donâ(TM)t care or want it. Only a minority are against it. As far as customers are concerned, choice is crucial. No one is saying anyone has to pay with crypto. Only that some want to.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kisai ( 213879 )

      Trust me, the tried very hard to avoid engaging creators for this survey. The only reason anyone knows about it is because the comic community got up in arms about it.

    • Because you're not their customer.

    • I'm willing to bet that the headline isn't even true.

      Since Visa, mastercard, ACH, and any sort of bank withdrawl or transfer are all going to involve cryptography at some point, I'd say pretty much 100% of creators do want to get paid with a method that uses crypto.

      Now on the other hand, if the study meant to ask if creators were interested in getting paid in "crypto currency", I imagine that number would be relatively low. Considering yes it is basically eco-bad monopoly money.

      Also I wonder how many people

      • Since Visa, mastercard, ACH, and any sort of bank withdrawl or transfer are all going to involve cryptography at some point, I'd say pretty much 100% of creators do want to get paid with a method that uses crypto.

        Nice try. Domain-specific language does not force general language users to follow along. Also, homonyms exist. You can have two words with the same spelling and different meaning.

        Just like in Internet forums I see people using ED as shorthand for "Eating Disorder" - but because of TV commercials of the last couple decades that didn't want to use direct terminology, I mostly know ED as "erectile dysfunction." Context will help you understand the choice behind the words and which meaning was intended.

        • Nice try. Domain-specific language does not force general language users to follow along. Also, homonyms exist. You can have two words with the same spelling and different meaning.

          That's really funny since you're actually arguing my point since the "crypto" in "crypto currency" refers to the exact same "cryptography" (meaning encryption, digital signatures, HMACs, etc) and is using the established meaning (just using the shorter version of the same word)

          So, when you say domain-specific language (crypto currency domain-specific language) doesn't force general language users (cryptography in general language usage) to follow along, I agree. I mean, you're right, that would be silly. It

          • That's really funny since you're actually arguing my point since the "crypto" in "crypto currency" refers to the exact same "cryptography"

            I actually disagree on this point. It's true that cryptocurrency uses cryptography, but I would say the prefix "crypto" in the word really just means hidden/secret. Not untraceable but potentially anonymous. Maybe not the intended meaning by the creators of the term but definitely by the everyday users of the term. But just because a shorter version of a word is also contained in another word, it doesn't force them to be related. Just like using the word radio to mean a device for listening to music br

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fred911 ( 83970 )

      Whereas we're years off from common use of some form of blockchain for trade, fiat took a while to adopt. Considering it took 51 years for the US, we probably have another what 30 until fully accepted? Some form will be adopted.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org].

  • For one thing it's high risk (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:14PM (#62504666)
    If you take your crypto and exchange it for money but most of the big exchanges and they trace it back to one of the thefts they'll seize your money. And because of how stolen property law works they can do it and you can't do anything about it.

    Imagine if every dollar bill you've ever had had written on it all of its previous owners and if one of those owners had that dollar bill stolen and when you went to go and use it it was seized and you were out the money. That is how crypto works now.

    You could of course try to avoid the exchanges but good luck with that. Very few people take crypto because of the high risk of sudden market fluctuations let alone the risks I described above.

    • Re:For one thing it's high risk (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Powercntrl ( 458442 ) on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:37PM (#62504714) Homepage

      If you take your crypto and exchange it for money but most of the big exchanges and they trace it back to one of the thefts they'll seize your money. And because of how stolen property law works they can do it and you can't do anything about it.

      We'd only be so lucky if that was the only thing to worry about with exchanges. The fact is, an exchange can go *poof* overnight and your money blinks out of existence along with the company. They can have a "glitch" or be "hacked", and if their customer service has no interest (or ability) to resolve your issue, your money is gone.

      Hell, as we saw the other day, pick the wrong cryptocurrency and if you don't include enough of a transaction fee, your money will get lost in the void by design. That's beyond messed up.

    • They return it to whoever it was stolen from. You need to decide if you think that's a good thing or a bad thing instead of complaining about it both ways.

    • The risk of you receiving stolen crypto directly attributable to a thieving donor is infinitesimally small. Especially if you're smart and take your donations in XMR (ha ha!) or something that's relatively cheap and typically not stolen like Nano.

      If you want something that isn't necessarily volatile, you can just take your donations in stablecoins like DAI. Just not USDT, anything but that.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bwt ( 68845 )

      This model is just wrong, technically. Most cryptocurrencies are fungible (the opposite of NFT "non-fungible" tokens) in that there is no link between transactions to "the" bitcoin that was used. There is no serial number on an individual bitcoin (and actually no such thing as an individual bitcoin) to track, for example. If A and B each pay C 100 units of a coin and then C pays D 50 units of a coin, there is no way to determine if D got their crypt from A or B. If A's coin was obtained through criminal act

  • Got caught taking payment and regular old US dollars. The guys running the pump and dump schemes can't even get their shills to fall for it.

  • The big problem with accepting cryptocurrency (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Powercntrl ( 458442 ) on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:29PM (#62504688) Homepage

    ..is that if you're not interested in playing the market, you have to sell it quickly. Since that means you're going to get hit up with a transaction fee each time you send cryptocurrency from your wallet to an exchange, it would be cheaper to prefer more traditional forms of payment (such as PayPal, Venmo, etc.).

    • If your exchange supports Lightning, the fees should be cheaper than Paypal.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bwt ( 68845 )

      Visa payments take 3% in most cases. PayPal, Venmo etc all have fees, too. The promise of crypto is that their fees will be less. The problem with crypto right now is that it's usability is simply insufficient for mass adoption. This will change over time. In terms of selling quickly to shelter yourself from volatility, that would not be true if you are using a stable coin. A stable coin, like say Tether (USDT) is a crypto coin whose value is pegged to the dollar. Even if you don't use a stable coin, you ca

  • It takes infrastructure to handle crypto securely. Yes, one could just use an exchange account, but who knows if a big exchange is going to be the next Mt. Gox. So, if one wants security for their crypto donations, it requires finding a good hardware wallet with open source like something from Ledger or Trezor, as well as a way to back up the BIP-39 recovery codes in a secure, yet recoverable place or places.

    You also have to find an exchange that you can use to convert BTC into a usable currency, and that

    • When gas gets up to $3500 for a single transaction, there is almost no real point in accepting it.

      Anytime the transaction fees are higher than PayPal's there's no point in accepting it, unless you're dealing in contraband I suppose.

    • Your entire comment can be taken as a huge argument against cryptocurrency as a payment method for average non tech enthusiast people.
      I have been half following the rise of cryptocurrency since its inception, and have a pretty fair understanding of how it works, but even I found all the steps you described a bit complex and confusing. I just don’t see most people being willing to learn, let alone follow consistently, all the steps to securely and successfully use cryptocurrency until it becomes as s

      • The thing about PayPal and standard payment systems is that if fraud happens... it can be reverted. For example if a PayPal account gets hacked or compromised, charges can be reversed, and insurance pays for it. Or, if a credit card has bogus charges, those can be disputed. There is no going back with cryptocurrencies, once that signature is processed and works its way through the blockchain.

        Well, one could always add an escrow mechanism or use multi-sigs with cryptocurrency, but that complicates things,

  • Crypto's main goal is a hedge against a tyrannical government. "'The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks'" is forever codified in the first Bitcoin block. It doesn't need to be a full comprehensive payment system to achieve that.

    • No, it's not fine, it's completely failed as a decentralized currency. Tyrannical governments LOVE crypto because it facilitates theft from rich nations and it's too clumsy for normal transactions.

      Crypto has just turned into a gambling token. It's only worth something if the casino cashes you out.

  • We're still in the early days. The growth of Bitcoin is tracking somewhat closely to the internet itself in terms of adoption.

    We're at the comparative point where people are using 28.8K modems and learning how to send "e-Mails" using pine. It's still mostly a novelty that some few people are starting to find useful or at least are seeing some potential. But it's still the point in time where pundits are on national TV scratching their heads about what this Internet thing is at universities that some peop

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday May 05, 2022 @12:46AM (#62504922)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • The difference is maybe that explaining the benefit of emails was easy, even if explained to the average manager who doesn't understand fuck all about computers: You can send documents not overnight, but instantly.

      And for your grandparents, it meant that they can get the pictures of their grandkids instantly.

      Now explain the benefit of crypto currency to the average manager and grandpa.

      • Did your grandparents get it at first though? Or did they say "hogwash"? Because now you're the grandparents Lol :).

        • Nah, my dad is about as non-tech as they come, and even he immediately grasped why instant communication with more than just voice (i.e. telephone) is a good idea.

          But please, go ahead and explain the benefit of crypto to this grandpa here. What's in it for me?

          • No, there's nothing in it for you. And there was nothing in it for him either. You could have visited each day with pictures of the kids and he would have preferred that. The internet did not improve anyone's lives and crypto won't either. You already know this.

            • Yeah, try that with the daily visits when both you and your dad have something akin to a life. Or, worse, if you have something akin to a job and your dad doesn't have the ability to drive anymore.

              Or how about your dad being halfway across the country because, you know, you had to go where the job takes you while he didn't?

              You are aware that families don't have to live in the same house anymore, yes? Actually, that's very rarely the case these days. Why do you think it's near impossible to get a plane ticke

              • Right, but now you're just using the internet as an excuse to move away and neglect your family.

                Maybe that worked out for you and maybe it didn't. Maybe it worked out for your dad and maybe it didn't.

                I'm not judging you, we all make choices and then we have to live with them.

                But consider that those choices weren't there there before internet, and maybe lack of choices like that wasn't a bad thing.

                • C'mon. People didn't just wait for the internet to arrive so they could move abroad.

                  It's not exactly a new development that people had to move thousands of miles for a new job. But the internet allowed them to connect back with the rest of their family across states and countries. That was a technology that instantly became interesting for that very reason. People immediately understood what the benefit to them would be.

                  Cryptocurrency still looks like a solution in desperate need of a problem, not only to m

                  • Well I guess if you ask the Gen Z's what's so great about web3 they will say NFT, DeFi or GameFi..

                    CEOs like Jamie Dimond and Eric Schmidt think it's significant in ways that nobody has thought of yet or else do not work yet.

                    I actually think that all of them are right but I don't want to downplay IPFS, because to me, this is the most compelling aspect of Web3.

                    That probably sounds like gobbledygook to you but believe me, it won't to your grandkids.

                    • Be it as it may, but in the end, for a technology to actually generate revenue, you will need widespread acceptance. And so far I fail to see anything resembling it.

                    • Yup. Like email in the early 90's. We'll have to wait and see I guess if it catches on..

  • Because trying to divest of crypto is just extra steps and hassle.

  • Next they'll be saying they don't want to be paid in Canadian Tire notes.

  • "web3" is baloney (Score:4, Informative)

    by sabbede ( 2678435 ) on Thursday May 05, 2022 @07:31AM (#62505422)
    Web 2.0 as currently used was a term coined to describe a rapid and rather large change that had already begun. It described what actually was. Web3 is a term coined by a cryptocurrency guy to promote his own tech. Lets not pretend it is anything more than BS marketing-speak meant to promote a platform rather than describe reality.

  • When the majority didn't have credit cards, shops didn't want payments with them, but once the majority had them, then all shops "wanted" to use them.

    Crypto adaptation is still so low that currently, it is "one more" option to already many other payment options, and just an additional hassle for many shops.

    However, crypto will offer clear benefits for many compared to credit cards and their usage will grow.

    It would be interesting to see what are the numbers in the same survey next year.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jeremyp ( 130771 )

      What are the benefits of cryptocurrency in comparison to credit cards? I see none. On the other hand, with a credit card, if I get defrauded, I can get the transaction reversed.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Thom34 ( 6232932 )

        Perhaps you are then privileged first world people (as I am), and the benefits are not so visible as everything goes fine here without them and doesn't cost too much. :)

        However, there are huge amount of people (over half of the earth population) that don't have bank accounts and thus doesn't have a way to move or store money electronically. Cryptocurrencies will allow them to do it. I guess that you can also see that to be able to store and send money electronically is a huge benefit.

        Cryptocurrencies with

  • I don't know what version of math is being used, but the one I use says 43% =/= "most".
  • I think I would prefer to be paid in a currency that holds a steady value for more than 5 minutes.

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