Engineer Who Fled Charges of Stealing Chip Tech in US Now Thrives in China (bloomberg.com) 48
ASML has pressed IP theft allegations against two firms created by 'flagbearer' for China's semiconductor industry. From a report: Few companies are better positioned to benefit from the crippling shortage of computer chips than ASML, a Dutch manufacturer whose equipment plays an integral role in making the world's most advanced semiconductors. But four lines tucked halfway into an otherwise upbeat, 281-page annual report from February hinted at a potentially incendiary problem. ASML accused a Beijing-based firm, regarded by Chinese officials as one of the country's most promising tech ventures, of potentially stealing its trade secrets. Behind the brief disclosure is an extraordinary multiyear tale of intellectual property theft and a broader threat facing the $556 billion semiconductor industry. In the report, ASML said the Chinese company, Dongfang Jingyuan Electron, is related to a defunct Silicon Valley firm, Xtal, which ASML sued for intellectual property theft.
A 2018 trial in California, which received scant attention at the time, provided more detail. Dongfang and Xtal were essentially the same, created a month apart in 2014 by a former ASML engineer named Zongchang Yu, ASML's attorney told the court. The two companies worked in tandem toward the same goal: obtaining ASML's technology and transferring it to China, which is seeking to foster its own semiconductor industry, often at the expense of Western companies, the attorney argued. That technology was secured in sometimes audacious fashion: one engineer was accused of stealing all 2 million lines of source code for critical ASML software and then sharing part of it with Xtal and Dongfang employees in the US and China, according to transcripts of the proceedings. "It's not an accident. It's not anything else," Patrick Ryan, ASML's lead attorney, told the court. "But it is a plot to get technology for the Chinese government."
A 2018 trial in California, which received scant attention at the time, provided more detail. Dongfang and Xtal were essentially the same, created a month apart in 2014 by a former ASML engineer named Zongchang Yu, ASML's attorney told the court. The two companies worked in tandem toward the same goal: obtaining ASML's technology and transferring it to China, which is seeking to foster its own semiconductor industry, often at the expense of Western companies, the attorney argued. That technology was secured in sometimes audacious fashion: one engineer was accused of stealing all 2 million lines of source code for critical ASML software and then sharing part of it with Xtal and Dongfang employees in the US and China, according to transcripts of the proceedings. "It's not an accident. It's not anything else," Patrick Ryan, ASML's lead attorney, told the court. "But it is a plot to get technology for the Chinese government."
No way... (Score:1)
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Bribing politicians along the way, helps you evade sanctions or a PR black eye. Maybe even more access
Re: No way... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Ah, the old "but he did great things for the electorate argument", sigh, yet again. How about them coal mines, he saved them by screwing up the Covid response and creating a recession that then caused the inflation that they are now profiting from...at least until the American West finally burns to a crisp.
The U.S. could have gotten out ahead in the renewables industry but your idiot was enthralled by the oil industry, Republicans have been since Reagan. Now, China is out ahead in the renewables industry. N
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Gas prices are not really on any one single person. Not Trump or Biden. Gas prices are high because oil and gas are global commodities and our corporations have zero mandate to sell to the usa citizens if they can make more money else where.
No one has suggested a temporary export ban on gasoline but that sure would keep the price of gas good for USA consumers. Thing is, our government doesn't fucking care about it's citizens. It only cares about it's business citizens, who are people with a lot more money a
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Trump, for all his shortcomings (and there are a lot), did what no other politician did: Things that were actually great for his constituencies.
Nope. He said the would do things that are great for his constituencies. What he actually did was not that.
Trade deficit with China was $346 billion in 2016, the year he took office. In 2019, the last year before the pandemic hit, it was $344 billion (source [census.gov]). Barely any change. At that rate we'll be even with China in ~700 years.
And then there's the fact that China's not our only trading partner. Total trade deficit went from $735 billion to $850 billion (source [census.gov]). A 15% increase. In other words, if your jo
Re: No way... (Score:4, Informative)
Re: No way... (Score:4, Insightful)
kick out the establishment
This is just empty populism, who do you mean and why didn't "they" do it? When "the establishment" just means "people I don't agree with" it's not a virtuous move it's just politics as usual.
tried to check China with mountains of tariffs
Mountains of tarriffs did next to nothing but increase prices domestically but even if you agree with them then you should also give credit that the current admin has kept virtually all of them in place up this point.
international matters should not be handled by corporations
I agree, corporations do need increased regulation but there is always a balance between free trade and free movement of capital and where the government interferes in markets. My standpoint is while free trade has done lot's of good for the domestic populace and corporate sectors what we have done a piss-poor job at is using all that increased economic growth into helping the people who are hurt by those policies. That's always the issue with global trade, the benefits are spread across the population but the negatives are localized. This is a matter that can be alleviated with adjustments to taxation and domestic policy, but no one likes to talk about that.
We can't just turn back the clock on globalism, that's a pipe dream, what we can do is make sure the US is still the most attractive place to do business and take care of the American workers.
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what we can do is make sure the US is still the most attractive place to do business and take care of the American workers.
No. You can have one or t
Re: No way... (Score:4, Insightful)
It is empty when "the establishment" is just "people I don't agree with" and kifkcing them out is just "replace them with my own corrupt lackeys". You're gonna have to be far more specific to put any weight on that claim.
You can dislike Biden all you want but lying about things to suit your narrative just makes anyone see you as a dishonest partisan. Biden has continues the 5g bans on Chinese companies, kept the tarrifs in place and Trump got exactly fuck all done on IP theft (because in reality there is not much to be done there). Where Trump fucked us hard was withdrawing from the TPP with no negotation and no multilateral replacement. The US is nowhere near being able to fight China on a unilateral basis and while the TPP had problems the path forward is multilateral agreements. Anyone telling you otherwise is lying and the results speak for themselves.
No. You can have one or the other.
This is childlike and lacks and nuance or understanding about geopolitics and modern economics. The United States is still far and away the worlds largest economy with clearly the biggest consumer base in the entire world. Every company both domestic and foreign rightly wants to take part in it.
If you want to believe we need to debase ourselves in order to compete on the world stage that is sad and I won't be a part to it.
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You're feeding a noisy troll. Probably the source of the vacuous Subject, too.
Re: No way... (Score:4, Informative)
That is an outstanding description of the con artist. The guy whose family stole from a cancer charity, who employed illegal workers at one of his many failed business ventures, and who didn't want to pay the winner of a golf tournament he sponsored.
But you knew that, and much more how corrupt the con artist is, but instead chose to continue the unending lie about how the other guy is "corrupt". Funny how you never mentioned the con artist employing unqualified family members to work at the White House, people who couldn't pass a security background check because of their corruption. Or how one of those family members received a $2 billion payment [yahoo.com] from Saudi Arabia a short time after they left the administration.
But it's always deflection, isn't it? Such as claiming vote fraud but never showing a single piece of evidence to support the lie, and in fact stating in court no such evidence exists.
Except of course when it comes to all [apnews.com] those [foxnews.com] Repubicans [yahoo.com] committing [theguardian.com] vote [cbsnews.com] fraud [nytimes.com].
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There was nothing incriminating on the laptop, dolt. Repeated the fevered imagination of right wingnuts isn't really a good argument for anything.
And your sainted alleged president's trade "deal" has never been honored by the Chinese as any teenager could have told that idiot.
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IP theft is everyone's way. The French were notorious for bugging Air France flights, the British are known to have hacked European companies to steal commercial data, and Hollywood was only became the hub of the US film industry because it was far enough away from New Jersey patent lawyers to avoid getting sued for the massive amount of IP theft going on.
IP laws were never really fit for purpose. At best you might be able to stop people selling their product in the same market as you. In practice you need
Re:No way... (Score:5, Insightful)
IP on the other hand is an artificial attempt to limit the use of said instructions so that someone may engage in rent-seeking for their use. Like all rent-seeking, such restrictions provide no actual value to a society, only additional costs. So those seeking to build their societies up tend to avoid IP like regulations. While established societies tend to religiously enforce / enact IP regulations in a vain attempt to maintain their dominance. Loose said dominance, and go back to avoiding IP to catch up.
Currently, the US is on the enforcement side of the IP pendulum and is reaching it's apex before swinging back in the opposite direction. China is taking advantage of this, and bolstering it's society by extracting the wealth that the US denied itself with it's IP enforcement.
Re: No way... (Score:2)
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IP has always been an attempt to print money from nothing [...] IP [is] an artificial attempt to limit the use of said instructions so that someone may engage in rent-seeking for their use. Like all rent-seeking, such restrictions provide no actual value to a society, only additional costs.
IP laws reward individuals for coming up with an idea in the first place. it incentivizes creation/innovation.
there's a reason your grandma doesnt want to share her family's marinara recipe.
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The French were notorious for bugging Air France flights, the British are known to have hacked European companies to steal commercial data,
Wow. Never heard of this before.
Re:No way... (Score:4, Interesting)
Look at the level of genuine technological innovation in *Taiwan*, then imagine that level of innovation scaled up to a population 58x as large. You almost *can't*.
If China weren't such a corrupt, dysfunctional system, it wouldn't need to steal anything. The fact that you can get away with theft really destroys any incentive to create anything new.
Wouldn't be surprised (Score:5, Interesting)
Was involved in some kind of research study involving the ASML v Xtal case and I felt sorry for Xtal's lawyers. Their entire defense was basically, "We're just the little guy and ASML doesn't like competition." Their lawyer's presentation literally included a slide where they tried to show the relative size of ASML and Xtal in terms of market cap. Except ASML did a pretty damn good job of showing that the engineers who left ASML for Xtal took with them a lot of things they weren't allowed to and those were used in allowing Xtal to get up and running a lot faster. So if the two companies were started by the same person, there's a very good chance they both were bootstrapped using stolen IP.
That said, ASML is also a dick. By dumb luck I interviewed there a few years back and was literally told "Most of the people here are Chinese, so I'm not sure how well you'd fit in." Then after they finished the interview they just left me sitting in a conference room until I eventually just got up and left on my own, despite them making a big deal about how they don't want any non-employees just wandering around.
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Re: Wouldn't be surprised (Score:2)
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Many LEFT china maybe "for good." I know a top engineer and he was NEVER going back to China. After he retired rich and young in the USA, he went into business in China and made a bunch more money because "it's different over there now" in that if he wants money and knows trade secrets...
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They invented a way to get rich from the fact they have no morals.
Re: Wouldn't be surprised (Score:1)
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Funny.. (Score:1, Insightful)
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it's exactly what the US would do themselves if China had blocked them from using technology they needed to keep their heads up in current society
Nah, we'd probably start dropping bombs somewhere in the middle east.
Re:Funny.. (Score:5, Interesting)
If they had become democratic allies, they could have gotten the ASML steppers. Trade with China was privilege which was granted under Capitalist Peace theory. It was assumed China would move closer to the west to the point they could become allies, instead they remained totalitarian commies.
Capitalist Peace theory turned out to be a giant fucking crock of shit, but backing out from this fucking mess has become a little difficult.
Cold war isolationism was the right approach to deal with ideological enemies all along.
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Capitalist Peace theory turned out to be a giant fucking crock of shit, but backing out from this fucking mess has become a little difficult.
Should have been obvious after it failed to stop world war one. Or the siege of Constantinople. Or any of the battles the Venetians were involved in. Or the Italian penninsula wars.
National security is a requirement for flourishing trade, not the other way around. Once people realize they can punch you in the face and take your stuff, some of them are going to do that.
Wow, I'm shocked! (Score:3)
A chinese national works in the US then goes home and takes trade secrets with him! Well who would see that coming!
Honestly, the technical achievement of some western companies is only matched by their staggering naivety when it comes to people.
Re:Wow, I'm shocked! (Score:5, Informative)
It's illegal for them to do otherwise :
https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-cent... [uscis.gov]
Civil rights were the mistake, those companies are just forced to live with the results.
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Right. ,because its only whitey who did any raping, pillaging and genocide back in the day. You need to go learn some history. Maybe start with Gengis Khan and the Ottomans and work from there.
130M to 250M machines (Score:2)