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The Almighty Buck Bitcoin

Bitcoin Drops Below $20,000 as Crypto Meltdown Continues (cnn.com) 202

CNN reports: "The price of bitcoin breached $19,000," reports CNN, "and ethereum fell below $1,000 Saturday morning, extending the brutal crypto bear market to new lows." Bitcoin plunged nearly 10% in less than 24 hours, adding to a series of sustained losses over the last several months. It now sits below $20,000 for the first time since November 2020, down more than 70% from an all-time high of $68,000 per coin in November 2021. Bitcoin has lost $900 billion in value since that peak. Ether is also experiencing a so-called crypto winter. The second-largest digital token plummeted 10% on Saturday to $975, its lowest level since January 2021. The coin has lost 80% of its value from its record high last November.... The crypto world is reeling from the $60 billion collapse last month of two other major tokens, Terra-Luna and Celsius. Those losses have increased doubts about the general stability of digital currency.... Still, even at $20,000, about half of all bitcoin wallets are still sitting on profits, according to an analysis by the Columbia Business School cited by The New York Times. The study also found that 61% of bitcoin addresses had not sold anything in the last 12 months, suggesting that a total run on crypto may be avoidable.
Bitcoin has now lost more than 70% of its value in about seven months. But CBS News notes that even then, "many in the industry had believed it would not fall under $20,000." The overall market value of cryptocurrency assets has fallen from $3 trillion to below $1 trillion, according to coinmarketcap.com, a company that tracks crypto prices. A spate of crypto meltdowns has erased tens of billions of dollars of value from the currencies and sparked urgent calls to regulate the freewheeling industry. Last week, bipartisan legislation was introduced in the U.S. Senate to regulate the digital assets.
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Bitcoin Drops Below $20,000 as Crypto Meltdown Continues

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  • Race to the bottom (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gosso920 ( 6330142 ) on Saturday June 18, 2022 @12:56PM (#62631486)
    It looks like nobody wants to try to catch the falling knife.Cryptotraders have run out of suckers to sell to.
    • by splutty ( 43475 )

      The cotton candy foundations seem to have collapsed.

    • The fact you believe the world lacks new suckers, reflects more on you than anything else. Be it crypto good or bad is itself completely different then the reality "a sucker is born everyday".

    • Who know lulz that higher interest rates and end of free money would burst that bubble. It's already causing ripples in the housing market with those that borrowed for homes against crypto between the failing cryptocurrencies and real estate market collapsing again it hurts. Lots of folks not going be able to close on homes they over bid on.
      • by Rei ( 128717 )

        And the Fed isn't making this easy. They were far too late to react to inflation, so now they're obsessed with inflation above all else, to the point in risking crashing the housing market.

        Inventories are rising significantly (deflationary). CPI and GDP deflator are diverging, with GDP deflator showing inflation is under control. The main inflationary CPI components now are almost all energy-related, but producers are actively working on increasing energy supplies to offset the Russia disruptions. Going h

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • by ScienceBard ( 4995157 ) on Sunday June 19, 2022 @06:58AM (#62633142)

            I'm not sure they can crash the market, at least not in the sense you're thinking. The 2008 crash was a historically extremely rare event: you have to go back to the great depression to find something similar.

            A "crash" implies the asset has inflated beyond what is reasonable given supply. There is little evidence of that, supply is fundamentally tight. And a crash has to be precipitated by a large amount of forced selling, a la the 2008 foreclosure apocalypse. There aren't any metrics currently saying that people are underwater on housing en mass. If low income people had been getting loans they couldnt reasonably pay to buy a surplus of housing that would be concerning, but between constricted supply and tightened lending standards low income people were just priced entirely out of the housing market. And anyone that did buy and lock in a large debt at a fixed rate is actually likely to benefit from an inflationary environment as that debt inflates away.

            You might see localized crashes, certainly, in specific markets. I'd also suspect a broader pullback of a few %. But ultimately a crash has to have forced selling, and I think here you'll get the opposite... a broad pullback in already tight selling coupled with a slowdown in new building. That paired with a really punative interest rate increase (think double the monthly payment from a year ago for the same debt) may lock up the housing market altogether. The only inventory coming avaliable may be the narrow margins of truly forced sellers and buyers (from deaths, etc.). Shit, with remote work I wouldn't even assume force selling due to job relocation will happen in any amount if a recession hits.

            The answer to housing affordability is more houses on cheaper land. Cheaper land is outside major urban centers. More houses can be done with smaller size and higher density. People are fighting all of those things. Until you see either demographic shifts out of urban areas (where half the cost of a house is the dirt it sits on), or a willingness to remove density requirements in zoning and pack more people smaller lots, there isn't going to be an end to this.

            I'm honestly starting to wonder if the answer might be a corporate tax write off for fully remote positions that still employ a US citizen in a US zipcode, coupled with tax rebates/writeoffs for building housing in low tax value zip codes. Create an incentive to shift some of the highest dollar workers out of these very high priced areas, which simultaneously spurs growth in depressed areas and puts downward pressure on assets in high priced areas.

        • imo the US economy is far too exposed to manipulation by the petroleum industry

    • I hope they also lose every dime they have.

    • You don't catch falling knives. You punch the guy watching it fall, wait for it to drop, then pick it up when he's still seeing stars.

  • by Kobun ( 668169 ) on Saturday June 18, 2022 @01:06PM (#62631510)
    As more crypto bros lose faith from seeing their hopes dashed ("it'll never go under $20k"), how long for it to drop under $100? Since belief was the only thing sustaining it ...
    • by Kiliani ( 816330 )

      Funny you should say this - I was thinking of buying a BC once it has fallen to $100, print the paper wallet, frame it, hang it on the wall, and call "My"NFT" – and then chuckle every time I look at it. I am sure I can afford one tank of gas/petrol for this kind of art installation, even if it wastes a perfectly good picture frame.

    • Given that apparently 60% of all wallets have not sold anything in the last 12 months, and that the price has dropped this far despite that, it kind of reveals the quicksand the BTC valuation was built on. I’d be interested to learn what part of the total of Bitcoins those wallets represent.
    • As more crypto bros lose faith from seeing their hopes dashed ("it'll never go under $20k"), how long for it to drop under $100? Since belief was the only thing sustaining it ...

      For the record, at this moment, BTC is trading at $17,951, down $2,676, which is another 12.97% loss. Ethereum is down 17.9%. And the numbers keep falling. I had to keep changing them just typing this comment.

  • by willy_me ( 212994 ) on Saturday June 18, 2022 @01:06PM (#62631512)
    As the economy becomes more troubled, high risk assets like bitcoin will become significantly less desirable. It is the sort of thing you purchase when you have lots of money and can handle the associated risk. When fewer people have money to invest, the demand and price will go down.
    • How is bitcoin an asset of any value? Seriously. If you want to speculate on currencies than speculate on actual currencies. You might have done well buying Russian rubles low recently while they've managed to (regrettably) claw their way back up. But bitcoin? You can't even launder money with it without serious skillz.
    • It's the economy, but it's something very different.

      Bitcoins, and crypto in general, was only interesting because it was volatile, yes, but at the same time it was the only way to actually get some interest out of your money. Gold and other precious metals are overvalued thrice and more over. Same for real estate. Stocks and bonds are laughable. It was something to invest in because nothing else had any ROI.

      Now with increasing interest rates, the risk/reward ratio of crypto currencies just ain't interesting

  • Valuation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by enriquevagu ( 1026480 ) on Saturday June 18, 2022 @01:09PM (#62631520)

    Bitcoin has lost $900 billion in value...

    Please, stop claiming that bitcoin is losing value, you wrongly say it 5 times in the summary. It is its valuation that is sunking. The value is inherent, the valuation can be (as in this case) completely speculative.

    Subtle difference, but relevant to highlight that bitcoin has no value as a coin (for its lack of stability, its transaction fees and delays, among others) or as an investment (for its lack of stability and its purely speculative nature). Indeed, once you discard applications of dubious legality, you can claim that bitcoin has no real value.

    • Re:Valuation (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve ( 949321 ) on Saturday June 18, 2022 @01:37PM (#62631592)

      Please, stop claiming that bitcoin is losing value, you wrongly say it 5 times in the summary. It is its valuation that is sunking. The value is inherent, the valuation can be (as in this case) completely speculative.

      Sadly, I can't mod you up as I have no points, but a few others are doing so. I suspect one of the real problems going on in the crypto world is that all these exchanges that are freezing withdrawals don't have the actual money on hand, nor can they get enough of it, to fully pay all their customers off if all of them cashed out at current prices. I'll make a wild guess that maybe between 10-20% of the current "value" of customer holdings could actually be paid out if everybody cashed out at once. I strongly suspect that what actually happened with the Terra/Luna fiasco is that some very large investor/speculator simply decided to cash out while they had turned a nice profit and amount of the cash out overwhelmed the system for Terra/Luna and it wasn't a malicious attempt to crash them.

      • Given that the customer holdings are now nearly worthless, it should be easy to meet redemptions. Soon all of the BTC in existence will be worth less than a tank of gas.
    • The value is inherent, the valuation can be (as in this case) completely speculative.

      I totally agree with this, however for BitCoin the value is always zero, with BitCoin all you have is valuation...

      I say that as someone who thinks BitCoin will always have a non-zero valuation, just not sure where it will end up.

    • Re: Valuation (Score:4, Insightful)

      by djp2204 ( 713741 ) on Saturday June 18, 2022 @02:04PM (#62631678)

      Bitcoin has no utility other than as a means of exchange that someone might accept, which means it has no intrinsic value unless your trading counterparts says it does. Gold, silver, seeds, iron, etc can be made into things which gives them utility and thus value. Fiat currency is willed into existence by the state for the purpose of acting as a means of exchange, giving it value.

      What can you really do with Bitcoin? Trade it around and MAYBE exchange it for fiat currency? Ok whatever

    • you're correct, the valuation is shrinking, which in turn has definite impact on the value of the investment to anyone holding it or intending to purchase it.
    • which is that at one point the value of Second Life game currency was in the hundreds of millions, until somebody tried to cash out more than $1000 bucks. The real value was made apparent when he couldn't do that.
    • by xorbe ( 249648 )

      or even negative value wrt the whole of society

  • I'm afraid the cynical economist in me says 'cash what you can cash while you can'.

    The rest of me is happy that this hype is finally coming to an end.

    • Which is apparently nothing because the exchanges won't honor redemptions.
    • I don't get all these people acting like Bitcoin and crypto are "coming to an end." BTC has been boom and bust from the beginning. It's not a surprise that such a wild unregulated asset is tanking as a recession looms. It's not ending by any means.

  • While BTC and other crypto plunge in made up value, some of those suckers who bought into the bro crowd hype are now seeking legal remedies [marketwatch.com] for their losses claiming fraud and pump-and-dump schemes.

    However, because crypto was designed to be outside the normal banking industry, it is unclear if the SEC has any jurisdiction because crypto may not be a security.

    The question of whether the celebrity pitch people could be held liable is an open one. First, the courts would have to decide if crypto is a security, and then if that security was promoted fraudulently.

    As commentators pointed out this week as the crypto markets crashed, no cryptocurrency has registered as a security and exchanges or lenders through which they may pass are not backed by the government’s Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) insurance guarantees.

    In short, if crypto is not a security then these suckers might have little to no remedy to recover losses. Even worse, with crypto "exchanges" now slo

  • When people have less money to spend the value of collectibles goes down.

    • When people have less money to spend the value of collectibles goes down.

      I never heard of Bitcoin described as a "collectible" before. (??)

      In a way, I suppose it is.

  • by ctilsie242 ( 4841247 ) on Saturday June 18, 2022 @01:16PM (#62631546)

    With the fact that energy for all but the most connected mining outfits (the ones who are located where hydroelectric is available, or have an extremely large solar array) is expensive, I wonder what will happen to BTC's price when it becomes too expensive, both in buying the ASIC mining equipment, energy in running the equipment, as well as energy to cool everything down? When more mining outfits pull out and shut down, will that help or hurt BTC's value? Mining outfits also have a lot of overhead for data centers, so even if they stop running the ASIC miners, they still have the data centers to pay for, as well as the land, and in today's FOMO real estate prices, the state taxes for it can be expensive.

    Of course, people say now is the time to move in buy BTC... but people said the exact same thing about GM stock before the company went bankrupt and reissued all new shares, where anyone who had stock lost it all.

    Once the energy for mining is too expensive, what then? Especially come the next reward halving, which only makes the situation worse.

    • With the fact that energy for all but the most connected mining outfits (the ones who are located where hydroelectric is available, or have an extremely large solar array) is expensive, I wonder what will happen to BTC's price when it becomes too expensive, both in buying the ASIC mining equipment, energy in running the equipment, as well as energy to cool everything down?

      The unprofitable will turn off their machines and the network difficulty will ajust and things will keep on trucking... like it

      • Agreed, the difficulty level will go down... but turning off and on mining equipment isn't easy. You can do it, and it will save the energy in mining costs, but there is still overhead of keeping a data center ready to go, and it isn't a trivial cost. In general, once miners start leaving the market, it is going to take a lot to get new ones to come back, buy capacity, ASIC mining equipment and such to get going again. It isn't like the oil market where oil companies can just lower production to keep the

        • In general, once miners start leaving the market, it is going to take a lot to get new ones to come back, buy capacity, ASIC mining equipment and such to get going again
           
          It literally won't. The difficulty will adjust. They aren't needed. The gap doesn't need filled when they leave.

        • Agreed, the difficulty level will go down... but turning off and on mining equipment isn't easy. You can do it, and it will save the energy in mining costs, but there is still overhead of keeping a data center ready to go, and it isn't a trivial cost. In general, once miners start leaving the market, it is going to take a lot to get new ones to come back, buy capacity,

          The crypto mines will not be abandoned. They will be repurposed to mint NFT images of bats.

  • It would be a _good_ day if this bullshit speculation had an EOL.
    A finality.
    Dead.

    There's only _one_ decent idea that has come out of this decade long "experiment", the idea of DeFi - and even that has so many questions swirling around it.

    If we are to say the only positive outcome would be the promise of cutting out "the middleman" in terms of actually holding the keys to what we have financially, that would be a good day, right?

    So, your bank can no longer hold back your funds - can no longer put a stop on y

    • Or things will bottom out, money will flood back in, and the new pump will begin a new
      • by bb_matt ( 5705262 ) on Saturday June 18, 2022 @01:56PM (#62631662)

        Or things will bottom out, money will flood back in, and the new pump will begin a new

        Well sure, that's always "the big sell" when it comes to this market - acting like it's been around forever and "history" will repeat itself.

        It's SO MUCH BULLSHIT, it beggars belief.

        Just 13 years ago, Bitcoin came onto the scene, yet "Crypto Bro's" act as if it has been around forever.
        "Well, if you do a TA on the trends, the market always does XYZ at this point."

        I cry BOLLOCKS.

        There is already some amazement that Bitcoin and the market have - shock! horror! /s - not actually followed a trajectory - an ancient trajectory, of an ENTIRE 13 years /s - "dropping below its previous halving cycle's high for the first time in its history"

        FFS, a history of fucking 13 years is NOT a history - it's a blip. A tiny little blip.

        Yeah, I'm a bit shouty here, because the sheer hubris is mind bendingly stupid - because? Greed, as a human emotion, has no equal.

        The entire market is like greed at it's most primal - and in that, it will self-destruct itself.
        It'll eat itself up, in a feeding frenzy of vanishing returns.

        13 years? - Jesus H Christmas, that's a TINY time scale - and the reason it hit such dizzying heights in the first place?
        It was played with. Just another asset for the "big boy & girls" to toy with, not giving a damn shit about any highfalutin crypto-bro drivel.
        It was _there_ to be fucked with, to take the rubes for a ride, to make money out of _nothing_ expect taking money off other people.

        And my story? I've followed this market since 2017, dabbled, speculated and ended up fortunately no worse off financially, but also wiser - I drank a tiny bit of the coolaid, I got a tiny bit greedy.

        Out of all that experience? - yeah, I'd like to see some DeFi action _without_ speculation - I really would like more control over the money I actually own, because right now, it's all in the bank - and the bank calls the shots. I don't actually have custody over my own money, really.

        Does anyone? - hell no.

        But FFS, we could do without this speculative circle jerk - and I reckon it's about to crash for good... hopefully.

    • ..It's complicated, but to me, it's frikkin' obvious that 99.9% of the cryptocurrency market is NOT complicated, despite its ridiculous complexities - it is speculation - it has NO pegged value to anything physical..

      Cryptocurrencies are all just made up "currencies". Because they're not based on any tangible asset and no major Government is mandating it's use, people just have to agree that they have any value at all. Imho. where cryptocurrencies failed is they were never seriously meant for conducting online transactions for goods and services. It's a chicken and egg thing; if I can't buy anything useful with crypto, then why should I bother owning/mining it??? The only reason is for speculation. But speculation for t

      • ..It's complicated, but to me, it's frikkin' obvious that 99.9% of the cryptocurrency market is NOT complicated, despite its ridiculous complexities - it is speculation - it has NO pegged value to anything physical..

        Cryptocurrencies are all just made up "currencies". Because they're not based on any tangible asset and no major Government is mandating it's use, people just have to agree that they have any value at all. Imho. where cryptocurrencies failed is they were never seriously meant for conducting online transactions for goods and services. It's a chicken and egg thing; if I can't buy anything useful with crypto, then why should I bother owning/mining it??? The only reason is for speculation. But speculation for the sake of speculation will eventually collapse because the underlying asset has no real-world use and no real-world value.

        Exactly.

        The _only_ reason for getting "on board" is the hope of timing, of getting in early and still finding a seat to sit in as the musical chairs or "pass the parcel" continues.

        To be able to sell ATH and leave others with the bags - and those bags are FIAT. Simple as.
        NONE of those bags are really this make believe money, because it took "real" money to buy-in.
        And everyone, unless they are liars, fools or cultists that drank the cool-aid, did it for anything more than greed.

        I've spent enough time on the s

      • by XXongo ( 3986865 )

        Cryptocurrencies are all just made up "currencies".

        And they're not even currencies.

        They are basically collectables.

  • by cellocgw ( 617879 ) <cellocgw.gmail@com> on Saturday June 18, 2022 @01:36PM (#62631588) Journal

    ... the value of that star that is named for you in some "Registry" remains at zero

    • And I sure as heck nobody is buying stars in registries as an investment. It's ridiculous to me, but at least it's $35 for some sense of satisfaction and it won't bankrupt you.
  • by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Saturday June 18, 2022 @01:51PM (#62631638) Journal

    Q: How do you make a small fortune from investing in Bitcoin?

    A: Start off by investing a large fortune in Bitcoin.

  • There is somebody who routinely asks for my advice about markets. On the way up in tech I was always a bit reluctant to say "don't buy" because I didn't want the burden of making them miss out on the next Amazon or Apple; but I was open about the fact that I owned no tech because I thought it was overvalued and it didn't fit my relatively conservative strategy.

    The one time I said "Absolutely do not touch this stock", was the Coin Base IPO. I feel pretty good about that now.

  • Uhm. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Saturday June 18, 2022 @02:07PM (#62631682) Journal

    The study also found that 61% of bitcoin addresses had not sold anything in the last 12 months, suggesting that a total run on crypto may be avoidable.

    I didn't RTFA, but this seems like a fundamental misunderstanding that assumes all wallets are controlled by living breathing people capable of making transactions. You know, instead of the by-design artificial scarcity of lost foreverness in BTC.

    I personally know at least one guy who is dead, who owned some amount, which is now gone forever, this also ignores that most coins have never moved. [fortune.com] Saying this as someone who fucking loathes the whole thing and has never had any stake in it.

  • Let hte circus end and the VGA prices may drop down even further. Awesome
  • I'm old. Old enough to remember the bitcoin when he was just a cheesy computer program! He started small, and he'll end small!

  • by ayesnymous ( 3665205 ) on Saturday June 18, 2022 @11:45PM (#62632696)
    The $19000 level was previously the all-time high back in 2019. That established a big resistance level. Then it plunged 85% down to around $3500 a year later. Now it has fallen "only" 66% from the new all-time high of $65000, and has hit the previous resistance level, which should provide some support. Good chance it rallies from here. But of course, it could plunge more later. Basically, just because it has dropped 66% doesn't mean it's dead.

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