Why Paper Receipts Are Money At the Drive-Thru (krebsonsecurity.com) 183
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Krebs on Security: Check out this handmade sign posted to the front door of a shuttered Jimmy John's sandwich chain shop in Missouri last week. See if you can tell from the store owner's message what happened. If you guessed that someone in the Jimmy John's store might have fallen victim to a Business Email Compromise (BEC) or "CEO fraud" scheme -- wherein the scammers impersonate company executives to steal money -- you'd be in good company. In fact, that was my initial assumption when a reader in Missouri shared this photo after being turned away from his favorite local sub shop. But a conversation with the store's owner Steve Saladin brought home the truth that some of the best solutions to fighting fraud are even more low-tech than BEC scams.
Visit any random fast-casual dining establishment and there's a good chance you'll see a sign somewhere from the management telling customers their next meal is free if they don't receive a receipt with their food. While it may not be obvious, such policies are meant to deter employee theft. You can probably guess by now that this particular Jimmy John's franchise -- in Sunset Hills, Mo. -- was among those that chose not to incentivize its customers to insist upon receiving receipts. Thanks to that oversight, Saladin was forced to close the store last week and fire the husband-and-wife managers for allegedly embezzling nearly $100,000 in cash payments from customers. Saladin said he began to suspect something was amiss after he agreed to take over the Monday and Tuesday shifts for the couple so they could have two consecutive days off together. He said he noticed that cash receipts at the end of the nights on Mondays and Tuesdays were "substantially larger" than when he wasn't manning the till, and that this was consistent over several weeks. Then he had friends proceed through his restaurant's drive-thru, to see if they received receipts for cash payments.
"One of [the managers] would take an order at the drive-thru, and when they determined the customer was going to pay with cash the other would make the customer's change for it, but then delete the order before the system could complete it and print a receipt," Saladin said. Saladin said his attorneys and local law enforcement are now involved, and he estimates the former employees stole close to $100,000 in cash receipts. That was on top of the $115,000 in salaries he paid in total each year to both employees. Saladin also has to figure out a way to pay his franchisor a fee for each of the stolen transactions. Now Saladin sees the wisdom of adding the receipt sign, and says all of his stores will soon carry a sign offering $10 in cash to any customers who report not receiving a receipt with their food.
Visit any random fast-casual dining establishment and there's a good chance you'll see a sign somewhere from the management telling customers their next meal is free if they don't receive a receipt with their food. While it may not be obvious, such policies are meant to deter employee theft. You can probably guess by now that this particular Jimmy John's franchise -- in Sunset Hills, Mo. -- was among those that chose not to incentivize its customers to insist upon receiving receipts. Thanks to that oversight, Saladin was forced to close the store last week and fire the husband-and-wife managers for allegedly embezzling nearly $100,000 in cash payments from customers. Saladin said he began to suspect something was amiss after he agreed to take over the Monday and Tuesday shifts for the couple so they could have two consecutive days off together. He said he noticed that cash receipts at the end of the nights on Mondays and Tuesdays were "substantially larger" than when he wasn't manning the till, and that this was consistent over several weeks. Then he had friends proceed through his restaurant's drive-thru, to see if they received receipts for cash payments.
"One of [the managers] would take an order at the drive-thru, and when they determined the customer was going to pay with cash the other would make the customer's change for it, but then delete the order before the system could complete it and print a receipt," Saladin said. Saladin said his attorneys and local law enforcement are now involved, and he estimates the former employees stole close to $100,000 in cash receipts. That was on top of the $115,000 in salaries he paid in total each year to both employees. Saladin also has to figure out a way to pay his franchisor a fee for each of the stolen transactions. Now Saladin sees the wisdom of adding the receipt sign, and says all of his stores will soon carry a sign offering $10 in cash to any customers who report not receiving a receipt with their food.
My college roommate did something similar (Score:5, Informative)
Decades ago, my then-roommate worked at a venue that will remain unnamed. He figured out how to make the till at the place print out what looked like a legitimate receipt for admission, but without actually adding anything to the transaction ledger.
I used to wonder how he always had so much money, a nice stereo, etc. I stopped wondering after he went to jail.
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Only steal if you can steal enough to buy an island in a country with no extradition laws.
Always take the extra receipts! (Score:5, Insightful)
Another common low-tech scam in tipped restaurants involves the 'extra' copy of the receipt. The merchant copy is what you typically fill out with the tip, total, and signature. But if you leave the customer copy, an unscrupulous server can take that, fill it out with a larger tip, and file that one instead of the original.
So make sure to always take the extra receipts with you!
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Is that still a thing? In this age of chip cards and tap, every restaurant I've seen brings a card machine to the table and you insert your card, fill in the tip on screen and it's billed
Re: Always take the extra receipts! (Score:2)
Yes, in the US it's rare to do CC transactions at the table (but not unheard of). I'm not sure why.
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I have noticed confirming the bill has almost gone away but they all do get emailed if requested. My checks almost only have 2 people so I know the total is always 4
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> fewer CC charges with cash tips (partial reporting to IRS).
I don't leave tips, I give cash gifts to good servers, to help them with their financial stability. It's really tough being a server.
https://shop.theadvocates.org/... [theadvocates.org]
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Every business in the US was forced to exchange their terminal equipment to deal with EMV chips a few years back, and I don't think the wireless ones were available as a choice at that time, or they were really expensive. They're starting to show up now, after being used in Europe for years. Now we just need to ditch the signature bullshit so these "secure" transactions can actually be more secure.
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This - I have lost count of how many people I have had to explain that your copy *IS* the security against multiple kinds of mischief that could otherwise occur.
The restaurant itself has not put the charge through yet they could add any number of items the never provided you.
The restaurant could easily charge you something different than what was quoted if its a market rate product like fish or game meat.
The server could alter the tip.
If you are paying with a credit card - yes you can dispute the charges an
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My wife always asked why I take the receipt with me and just throw it away in a trash can sufficiently distant from the restaurant. It's because of exactly this.
Re: Always take the extra receipts! (Score:2)
You can only get away with this for a bit. The card processors analyze the data for servers making exessive tips. So you could steal some money, but not likely enough to matter.
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Tip, Total, and Signature? Just pay your workers a decent wage and there'll be one number on the receipt. That's what I'm paying. Tax already included. Also, signatures were done away with decades ago. The US must be slow to catch up.
Say you hate the concept of tipping, and open your restaurant and hire all staff at the normal US wage and offer NO positions at "tip" wage. Think you would find success in hiring in America, or do those who work for tips expect to find you offering those type positions, because they do in fact make more per hour than what you're offering?
Here's a good global example; do your bartenders work for tips? If not, I wonder how they might knowing what a good American bartender can make on a weekend.
Tipping stil
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When it comes to credit card transactions, the payment card industry decided that Americans were too stupid to remember a 4-digit PIN (even though we already do for ATM cards, etc.) when they rolled out EMV chips. So we still have signatures that nobody looks at, ever. And massively reduced security by having our credit card transactions not secured with MFA. They basically deployed a scheme to prevent on-the-wire skimming attacks like what hit Target about a decade ago, but that's about it -
I always get
Is cash still common in the US? (Score:2)
Is cash still common in the US? Which would avoid this whole issue (TLDR: the manager couple were not ringing up customers who paid in cash - so made $100k on top of their $115 - combined I assume - salary).
I don't remember myself or gf/coworkers ever using cash after the pandemic in the UK - for a while you were not supposed to use cash at all, so I guess that gave a "push" to contactless. When we go out for lunch the waiter touches each person's phone and that's it.
I am asking because I am going t
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When going as a group, it can be easier to either have cash or use an app to pay one person to pay the bill. Some restaurants resist (or even outright refuse) splitting a check, especially for larger groups.
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Re: Is cash still common in the US? (Score:2)
I was at a "cash only" place as recently as yesterday....
Re: Is cash still common in the US? (Score:2)
I had a business from 2009-2013.
Annually, about 50-60% of the receipts were cash, with the rest being credit or debit.
Re:Is cash still common in the US? (Score:5, Informative)
Cash is good for not having your card/mobile skimmed and potentially losing your entire account, credit cards prevent more that as they have fraud protections, but you have to wait for a replacement card to be issued, card skimming is a surprisingly significant issue. At a drive through, you have to hand over your card, and it's easily skimmed.
Cash lacks any of those issues.
There are also plenty of people who work for cash or get cash payments they may or may not fully declare as income, so there can be greater value to cash.
Some places cover card fees in the prices, so items are cheaper in cash, and services may be cheaper in cash.
With tipping culture, cash tips may be undeclared, so worth more than card tips (and can't be altered).
A surprising amount of the populace do not have bank accounts, so far easier for them to deal in cash.
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Modern cards often send a notification to your mobile whenever you make a transaction. You'll notice pretty quickly if someone over charges you when you hand over the card.
Modern cards are also chip instead of magstrip based, which is much harder to clone and generally beyond the capabilities of a rogue drive-through employee. Even if cards do still have a magstrip so you can make payments in backwater places, you can often turn it on/off through mobile or online banking.
You are not supposed to let the card
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Cash is good for not having your card/mobile skimmed and potentially losing your entire account
It's basically impossible to lose your entire account through skimming. I'm not sure about the USA and their arse backwards mag stripe + signature bullshit.
Even with wireless transactions repeated transactions randomly will ask for authorisation. And you don't need a credit card to have protection, just some basic consumer rights codified in consumer protection law. Sensible countries do not leave it up to for profit businesses to protect consumers. Only the USA let's the fox guard the hens.
And no, I've nev
Re:Is cash still common in the US? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Often the "recovery" of false charges is the credit card companies simply eating the loss and crediting your account out of their pocket. At some point they'll stop doing that, and you're not going to like it.
In Australia, a lot of smaller stores, cafes and the like who did huge amounts of small value transactions had a surcharge for taking cards. In the early 10's this was made defacto illegal and overnight prices went up. Card users didn't notice but cash users occasionally were introduced to the secret cash menu, I.E. you paid $0.50 less for your coffee than the card addled.
Here in Europe/UK a lot of businesses like that just don't take cards any more. It's not a tax dodge as much as it a bank fee dodge. F
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In the US, it's illegal to charge more for using a credit card, per the CC vendor agreement.
Many businesses do offer a discount if you use cash and that is legal.
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I am asking because I am going to a conference this week (the Perl and Raku conference in Houston [perlconference.us]) and it was suggested that we bring cash if we are to dine out in groups as it can be difficult to use multiple cards at a table. I was wondering if that suggestion was from someone out of touch, or payments haven't changed much in the US since I last was there...
If you tell them "separate checks" when they're taking your orders, there shouldn't be any problem.
Also - at least in the US - there's a bank-supported way to quickly send money to someone else. It's called Zelle. When my coworkers and I go out for lunch, usually one of us pays the whole check (via credit card) and the rest of us just "Zelle" our share of the bill to them. Paypal's Venmo came first, but Zelle has more protections built in.
That said - and I say this as someone who still writes a lot of perl
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Yes, it's common, especially at any place that has drive up windows for fast food. Cash is great.
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Cash is still fairly big here. Between people who don't trust electronic payment (not entirely crazy given card skimmers and such), the unbanked (people who cannot get a bank account for various reasons), and places where they still ask you to hand your card over to someone who will disappear with it for a few minutes it's no wonder.
Re: Is cash still common in the US? (Score:2)
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It won't be complete as long as the strip remains as a backup. It just means the owner of the skimmer has to make sure the chip reader plausibly malfunctions.
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It's still used a lot - there are plenty of places that don't take card, and it's useful for small purchases.
Some people love to put everything on their card, others mix it up. If you want to avoid being surprised by a credit card bill at the end of the day, you use cash because it's way too easy to forg
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Re: Is cash still common in the US? (Score:2)
Cash certainly got used less during the pandemic. I've also noticed a generational cash dependence. Older Americans tend to use cash more than younger (maybe true elsewhere as well). Every once in a while I have an older relative give me a $100 bill, and while I appreciate it, there's the burden of finding a place that will accept a $100 bill.
I travel around the country quite a bit, and it used to be difficult to split checks among credit cards at restaurants but it's been a few years since I've come across
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Drop a 30% tip for a good experience, you will have a lot of them in Houston.
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>they encourage businesses to go card-only by reducing/eliminating the merchant fees ...
> Given that cash is legal government-issued tender I'm surprised that governments aren't going after the banks doing this for discriminatory practices.
The government has an interest in their money being used - the dollar, the peso, etc. Canada doesn't want their economy to be based on the Chinese Yuan. That's because control of the money supply allows reducing unemployment or increasing economic growth (exchangin
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In the US it's been determined that it only means government and court settlements (and maybe collections) must be payable by cash.
Basically a store can say they only take cards, if you refuse to pay, they can take you to small claims court and then the judgement can be paid with cash.
detection via inventory control (Score:5, Insightful)
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I would think that theft on this scale
On what scale? $100k/year in revenue sounds like a big number. But we don't know how much revenue is typically made, and by the time you subtract all manner of overheads that really doesn't translate much in terms of food cost.
Managing the till / cash register in India (Score:5, Interesting)
I was surprised by low paid managers running the store, and the owners coming in just once a day. Couple of times they even gave me free food, when I had forgotten the wallet or did not carry cash. I still think America is extremely honest, and these kind of stories making it to news shows how rare these are. It is a great country we have here. Let us remember the millions of low paid store managers not embezzling or stealing from the employer.
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The downside of this system for the serve
Solve one problem, create another (Score:2)
all of his stores will soon carry a sign offering $10 in cash to any customers who report not receiving a receipt with their food.
So the next problem will be customers that claim they didn't get a receipt when in fact they did.
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So the next problem will be customers that claim they didn't get a receipt when in fact they did.
Someone on the article itself mentioned that too, but I fail to see your point.
"I didn't get a receipt!"
"Just like anyone else that didn't shop here today..."
And then you go pound sand.
Re: Solve one problem, create another (Score:2)
Re: Solve one problem, create another (Score:2)
One complaint isn't going to surprise anyone. A dozen will.
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In Italy it is illegal to not demand a receipt (Score:3)
In Italy, since 1987 or so, everyone eating at a restaurant (or shopping at a store) is required to keep the receipt until being further than 100 m from the place. Police will sometimes stop people leaving restaurants / shops and demand to see the receipt. Also it is illegal to pay more than 1000 € in cash.
After all money stolen by the employees is money not in the books and thus money not taxed.
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In Italy, since 1987 or so, everyone eating at a restaurant (or shopping at a store) is required to keep the receipt until being further than 100 m from the place. Police will sometimes stop people leaving restaurants / shops and demand to see the receipt.
I can understand checking my receipt when I'm walking out of a department store holding the goods I purchased. Mind explaining why Italian police are treating those who walk out of a restaurant with nothing but a full stomach, as a criminal? The hell do they do to a person who doesn't have a restaurant receipt? Make them shove their finger down their throat and produce a proof of purchase?
Avoiding crime in your business, should not automatically turn your customers into suspects.
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The one and only time I ever rode the subway in Los Angeles I threw away my ticket after leaving the station, and was promptly stopped by two officers and asked for my ticket. They SAW me throw it away before asking, and they were not asking everyone (random sampling I guess). They would not let me go back and get the ticket.
To make matters worse I was not local and they refused to let me just pay the fine/plead guilty without trial so I had to show up in person to the dingiest grossest court I have ever s
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Cat tung (Score:2)
I just assumed small business owners graphed out daily and shift-based, if not hourly, average take. Then, if a given manager's (or casheir's) take is chronically light for those days and times (give it weeks, minimum, to overcome rare anomalies) t's obvious there's some funny business.
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My experiences with employees keep getting worse (Score:2)
Whenever there is one of those tablets that lets me pay without getting the person who waits on me involved I use it. Sure nothing is perfect but I've had my credit card used to buy things online before I even got home. I've had people write in large tips if I foolishly leave the receipt for them without either tipping or scratching through it completely (lesson learned). Not long ago at Star Cinema Grill my wife and I sat through a movie and a meal and ordered some drinks as well. At the end of the movie w
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Video Store (Score:2)
When I worked at a video rental store in the 90's a new employee figured out that they could override the manager's approval for free rentals on our ancient rental system and pocket the cash. He were done in by not realizing that the system counts how many free rentals each register doles out, and the fact that some customers were fanatical about counting how many paid rentals they accrue before getting their 10th free rental. No jail time, but he was immediately fired.
The system doesn't track deleted orders? (Score:2)
"One of [the managers] would take an order at the drive-thru, and when they determined the customer was going to pay with cash the other would make the customer's change for it, but then delete the order before the system could complete it and print a receipt,"
Seems like an easy risk mitigation is for deleted orders to be tracked.
Customers can't authenticate receipts (Score:3)
I had heard this was used as a control, but always thought it was too weak to help much. Around here, I only remember one place having such a sign, and that was decades ago.
You can hand a customer pretty much anything and claim it's a receipt. At the pizza place I worked at, the receipts were hand written, with a carbon copy that had serialized numbers on them. The previous management had obviously been doing some skimming. The had a whole week were they sold $200 in pizza, that's like 20 pizzas. I had figured they got a batch of order forms somehow that were unaccounted for. Then at one point realized they could have just used anything.
Someone in the know would immediatley pick up on the fake receipt. And they could do that using the serial numbers, even if they were using stolen order forms. So the whole tracking of receipts doesn't really help.
Even in today's printed receipt world, it's not that hard to get your own printer to fake some.
Re:I'll save everyone some reading (Score:5, Informative)
Didn't realize that $115,000 in yearly salaries ( x2 for the couple) was not a working wadge.
If there is a way to game the system, then people are going to do it.
Re:I'll save everyone some reading (Score:5, Funny)
Didn't realize that $115,000 in yearly salaries ( x2 for the couple) was not a working wadge.
Dude, that wasn't mentioned until all the way down in paragraph three. You can't expect the parent poster to hold his rant in that long!
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especially if you've got medical debt. I worked with a lady who needed back surgery. I remember her telling me that there was no way in hell she was gonna get it. No, she wasn't fat either. Skinny as a reed. Worked like a demon. Probably got the injury from working too hard and lifting things she shouldn't be.
While medical burdens/expenses are another major issue in America right now, it hardly justifies being completely dismissive of a $115K/year salary. Just ask the other 99% of society not earning anywhere near that amount of money who also deals with the same medical burdens or worse (i.e. on Obamacare).
All that said, if medical expenses are eating paychecks, and the job is literally the cause of the medical expenses, at some point the wise path is to stop causing the harm. We also have disability programs
Re: $115k isn't a lot of money (Score:5, Interesting)
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Hell, local city IT managers don't often even make $80k a year. Talk about overtime when your the 1-2 person team who needs to run IT for a whole city and your expected to do it with no budget.
Re:$115k isn't a lot of money (Score:5, Insightful)
Aside from that, I don't know whether that $115,000 is the total cost or just their wages. That introduces a ~30% variable. It would make the difference of $22/hr to $27/hr, assuming 40hr work weeks. Missouri also has a lower cost of living than the US average. I wouldn't say they were living large, but they were making a living wage.
Now, please don't take that to mean I think people working those jobs don't deserve to get paid a decent wage. I also don't know all the actual details here. I'm only saying if they were making closer to $27/hr, then they're roughly making as much as me. That's before you take cost of living into account.
You didn't read anything did you? (Score:2, Insightful)
> $115k isn't a lot of money especially if you've got medical debt.
So, first, there's no mention of the husband & wife having *any* debt, let alone a medical one. And two, here's what they actually made:
This is twice as much as you're figuring and only drives h
Re: You didn't read anything did you? (Score:2)
Re:$115k isn't a lot of money (Score:4, Insightful)
All I'm hearing are excuses. Stealing from the till is still stealing, even if you have a bad back, or even if your boss is an asshole. And from the available information, these two criminals aren't dealing with either. No "asshole boss" pays 6-figures to manage a sandwich shop, much less to two people in the same shop.
You knee-jerked and posted something stupid. You got called out on it. And now you're equivocating and trying to justify felony theft. Put the shovel down.
Re:I'll save everyone some reading (Score:4, Informative)
Didn't realize that $115,000 in yearly salaries ( x2 for the couple) was not a working wadge.
If there is a way to game the system, then people are going to do it.
But was it really $115k each or was it $115k total i.e. $57,500 each? The wording is really weird: "That was on top of the $115,000 in salaries he paid in total each year to both employees"
In total each year, not to each employee. "115k total to both" sounds like the latter. (If someone is selling you concert tickets, "I'll sell them at $200 for both" is different from "I'll sell them at $200 for each")
I realize it's kinda splitting hairs & doesn't really change your point, but I'd be really surprised if fast food managers in the middle of Missouri were making $115k/yr each.
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> But was it really $115k each or was it $115k total i.e. $57,500 each? T
Even if the wording is odd, they stole $100k on top of their salaries.
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But was it really $115k each or was it $115k total i.e. $57,500 each?
Not relevant. Even $57,500 is equivalent to $32 / hour which would be above the living wage for a 2 adults, 1 working, 1 child family. ($31.37 in Missouri according to this site: https://livingwage.mit.edu/sta... [mit.edu]). Both adults were working. They were earning well above a living wage any way you cut it. There's no excuse to say they weren't being paid enough.
Now they may have been living above their means, not dissimilar to heavily in debt sports personalities driving in their Ferraris while wearing Armani s
Re: I'll save everyone some reading (Score:2)
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But was it really $115k each or was it $115k total i.e. $57,500 each?
Not relevant. Even $57,500 is equivalent to $32 / hour which would be above the living wage for a 2 adults, 1 working, 1 child family. ($31.37 in Missouri according to this site: https://livingwage.mit.edu/sta... [mit.edu]). Both adults were working. They were earning well above a living wage any way you cut it. There's no excuse to say they weren't being paid enough.
Now they may have been living above their means, not dissimilar to heavily in debt sports personalities driving in their Ferraris while wearing Armani suits, but that is thoroughly on them and nothing to do with how much they were being paid.
There's a lot of assumptions you're making saying, "above the living wage" based even upon your own statements. First of all, they're both working, so assuming 1 child, 2 working, you're already $3.89/hr off. Second, the average US family size is 2.6 children, so (rounding down) assuming 2 children, living wage would be $44.86/hr total for both (which is what the article says).
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115k/2 as I read it.
This isn't to say it's not enough to live off of, but it seems pretty low for a manager.
I'd expect 50-60k + wage tax + benefits at a minimum.
Somebody capable of managing a place like that is going to be worth more somewhere else, if they're happy working for you it's pretty sus.
Re: I'll save everyone some reading (Score:2)
It's in Missouri, the which has one of the lowest cost of living in the US, in aggregate. Of course a fast food manager there is not going to make as much as a fast food manager in LA. Why I bet the sandwiches are less expensive at that franchise, even. 50k+ benefits sounds like a fairly progressive salary for the area.
Re: I'll save everyone some reading (Score:2)
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Half that. Or quarter x1. (Score:2)
That was on top of the $115,000 in salaries he paid in total each year to both employees.
The "in total" part clears up the confusion - that's what the SBO in the case sees as a loss too.
Which kinda indicates how he sees worker wages in general - profit stolen from him.
Also, while that $115k he sees as a loss was annual cost, that "almost 100k" in losses is a wild guess, made by him and him alone, NOT limited in any way by time.
he estimates the former employees stole close to $100,000 in cash receipts.
I.e. He's making a guess that, while they worked there, over the years, they may have stolen "close to" a whole year of paychecks by pinching a dollar here, a dollar ther
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An average management job in denmark earns about the same (55.000DKK per month) according to the internet. And i'm pretty sure the benefits are way better.
Re: Ever work fast food? (Score:2)
Re: Ever work fast food? (Score:4, Informative)
They made $115,000 each and had full benefits.
That's not what the article says. FTA: "That was on top of the $115,000 in salaries he paid in total each year to the two employees." $115K is unreasonably high pay for a fast food manager, particularly in Missouri. Most likely, it was more like $57,500 each, or about $28-$29/hour. Don't be so dismissive of someone's intelligence when you fail in basic reading comprehension yourself.
Many made the same mistake with the shitty wording, (including myself), but perhaps we should get even more accurate here.
$115K a year in total, means taxes and benefits paid by the employer that comprise a portion of that $115K total. So no, not $57K/each. More like $45 - 50K each.
Regardless, doesn't justify their actions. Theft is theft.
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Aww, boo hoo. Each was making "only" about 72% of the nation median HOUSHOLD income per year. So hard to live on.
Not to mention EACH was making 10% more than the median household income for their state.
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Why are you continually trying to justify the theft of one hundred thousand dollars?
They.
Stole.
From.
The.
Business.
They.
Were.
Hired.
To.
Manage.
Repeatedly, and in a conspiracy.
Re:I'll save everyone some reading (Score:5, Insightful)
"...on top of the $115,000 in salaries he paid in total each year to both employees."
It was pure greed on the part of a couple of well-paid employees, and nothing more. Stop making excuses for bad behavior.
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Do you consider a salary of $57500/year small enough to drive someone to crime? Now double that for the pair, does that sum still drive people to crime?
I can understand and condone theft if someone is actually starving and it's the only way they can survive - but this was systematic theft to the tune of almost $2000/week.
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Yeah, I guess that $230K the couple made each year wasn't enough to pay the mortgage and buy baby formula. Do you ever post something that isn't stupid?
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$60,000 a year per manager is not pocket change for semi skilled work. And if the couple aggressively completes tax returns, has a house, invests in retirement, maybe some brats, the likely pay only token taxes.
Movie theaters have this problem, so they count cups and popcorn containers and validate against sales. The disgusting thing is that, at one time, if you went at a lax time, you might get a used container. So
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When I worked at the theatrer,s the trick was to grab used cups and damage them out soi they tracked in inventory but no one got dirty cups.
The other trick was for the box person (ticket seller) to tear the ticket in half and then sell the other half of the ticket to the next customer. We fired someone that did this to the point of buying a new car cash. Granted, this trick probably doesn't work anymore with assigned seating.
Re:I'll save everyone some reading (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if you do pay them enough, some will steal if you create the opportunity, it's easy, and there are no controls in place to stop them. Doesn't matter how much you pay them.
There's no shortage of white collar workers making 6 figures who still steal office supplies, cleaning supplies, toiletries, and kitchen supplies from the office.
As for the business in question, the issue here was lax controls. The "if you don't get your receipt the meal is free" or whatever is a pretty weak control and a distraction that i hope the owners aren't stupid enough to think is "the solution".
The business should be running daily inventory counts, waste counts, and reconciling them to the till receipts. That is how you detect and quantify shrinkage like this. Reviewing til logs for cancelled orders, and/or refunds/returns, and other odd gyrations can also help pin down who is doing it. Surveillance cameras etc can provide additional evidence if you want to prosecute, but proper inventory controls should be your go-to here.
If the till says you sold 500 hamburger patties in a shift, and there are 25 in the waste bin, but there are 800 less patties in the fridge. Then 275 burgers are unaccounted for... and you have a problem. A couple missing is just noise, mistakes happen. A bunch missing is anything from employees eating them, giving a freebies to a friend, replacing the odd customer complaint without ringing it through properly, or filling an order wrong... putting 4 in a bag that should have had 3 or something. All worth following up on so that things don't get out of hand, but you aren't going to close your business over it.
If you're missing dozens or hundreds you've got a serious problem, and one that can't be hidden from solid inventory controls.
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There's no shortage of white collar workers making 6 figures who still steal office supplies
Of course they do, its written in the bible. https://books.google.com/books... [google.com]
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Even if you do pay them enough, some will steal if you create the opportunity, it's easy, and there are no controls in place to stop them. Doesn't matter how much you pay them.
Sad reality. At one of my previous jobs I was solely in charge of the company paypal. Millions went through that in a year and based on rather lax policy I could have doubled or even tripled my take home pay by stealing from it. I never would have been caught as the people who *might* have checked would have swept such discrepancies into the "miscellaneous" bucket. I just... didn't. Not committing embezzlement is not terribly difficult after all.
I have known employees who embezzled and both times it was fro
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Stealing from the person who gives you a job is absurd. Wouldn't it make more sense, if you're gonna steal, to steal from someone who doesn't give you a job? Not justifying either one btw.
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I'm amazed that the manager didn't notice earlier. Even in the 1990s (when I last worked retail), the point-of-sale system counted the number of times the cash drawer / till was opened without a sale (called "No Sale" events). If you had too many No Sale events, the Loss Prevention people would be interested in you.
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Another leftist supporting thievery (Score:4, Insightful)
> it's because if you pay people as little as do most drive thrus they're gonna embezzle money by not ringing up the order. I worked fast food when I was a kid and that's what those screens are there for too.
Weird, I worked for federal minimum wage and never stole a dime. In fact, I put money back into the till when it was short. I honestly though this was quite an obvious way to stop "pocket transactions" when I first saw it.
> When you don't pay people enough money to survive they turn to crime, and if you're rich you get to make the rules about what is and isn't crime.
Well, for one, everyone gets to decide freely if they want to work there or not. Two, the people doing this theft were paid $100k+ and three the rules against theft are constant across most of the world. I haven't generally heard arguments this bad except from people on the old r/shoplifting subs and similar and you can easily guess why they would wax poetic about the righteousness of thievery.
> So wage theft and regressive taxation and zero anti-trust law enforcement? Not a crime.
Wage theft *is* a crime and they owe you back pay for it. Lack of anti-trust enforcement is a problem, but you should probably be pushing for DAs who will go hard on such crime, no excuse crimes. Regressive taxation is another problem, especially when you have them putting in inflationary policies which cause a highly regressive effective tax like the terrible inflation we've been experiencing for the past two years or so.
Have to hold politicians politically accountable for that.
> Stealing enough money to pay your mortgage and buy baby formula this week? Off to San Quentin with you. Got all that?
That's not remotely how it works. Aside from being able to get EBT or visit a food shelter in such cases, the punishments are far lighter than that, especially if you go to where they were letting people off completely for shoplifting less than $900 or whatever the limit was. I think we all know how that worked out, so this should give people a clue about how good your ideas here are.
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Did you even read that this husband / wife pair who committed the theft were pulling in $230k/year in salary for managing a fucking sandwich shop?
How much higher wages are you expecting to have to pay to get criminals to not crime?
Try at least reading the whole fucking summary before looking like a total fucking moron.
Re:I'll save everyone some reading (Score:4, Insightful)
The two Arby's I've gone to for slider happy hour definitely skim (lots of $1 things, so easy math).
They don't ring you in until you pull out a card.
It's super irritating because they constantly fuck up the order (shouting around what you want instead of it being on screens).
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It's not the job of the customer to report fraud. If corporate cares, they should incentivize reporting. Maybe give some gifts if the investigation pans out.
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