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North Korea Declares Itself a Nuclear Weapons State (bbc.com) 171

North Korea has passed a law declaring itself to be a nuclear weapons state, according to state news agency KCNA. The country's leader Kim Jong-un called the decision "irreversible" and ruled out the possibility of any talks on denuclearisation, it said. From a report: The law also enshrines the country's right to use a pre-emptive nuclear strike to protect itself. Despite crippling sanctions, Pyongyang has conducted six nuclear tests between 2006 and 2017. It has continued to advance its military capability - in breach of United Nations Security Council resolutions - to threaten its neighbours and potentially even bring the US mainland within striking range. Mr Kim carried out long-range launches and nuclear tests in 2019 following two headline-grabbing but inconclusive summits with then US president Donald Trump. But talks between the countries have since stalled.

Although the Biden administration has indicated it's willing to talk to Pyongyang, it hasn't said whether President Joe Biden would meet Mr Kim. The White House also said its attempts to contact Pyongyang and overtures of help over its Covid outbreak had gone unanswered so far. The US reviewed its North Korea policy last year and reiterated that "complete denuclearisation" of the Korean peninsula was the goal. Mr Biden said he would pursue it with a mix of diplomacy and "stern deterrence". Mr Kim responded by saying his country must prepare for both "dialogue and confrontation."

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North Korea Declares Itself a Nuclear Weapons State

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  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday September 09, 2022 @12:50PM (#62867373)
    Ukraine. Iraq. Libya. Afghanistan.

    If you don't have nukes you get invaded. If you give up your nukes you get invaded. Thanks to our greed, our post 9/11 anger and our turning a blind eye to war crimes it's become 100% clear that the only way to be a sovereign nation is to have nukes. If you don't it's only a matter of time. The final straw was when a change in US Presidents scuttled the Iran deal.

    It's no longer possible to avoid nuclear weapons proliferation. Anyone without nukes will be swallowed up, their land and property stolen. We're thieves. Everyone is. And we've shown our hand repeatedly.
    • If you don't have nukes you get invaded.

      When is Canada getting invaded then?

      • by ahodgson ( 74077 )

        They don't need to invade Canada, we do whatever the US wants anyway and they already own half the country.

      • In about 15-20 years (Score:5, Interesting)

        by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday September 09, 2022 @01:10PM (#62867473)
        it'll take that long for the US to go off it's Rocker enough to do it.

        It's a little harder for Canada because without some sort of Bigotry or fear mongering to justify invasion it'll be harder to sell to the public, but we're gradually dismantling our Republic. We came really close to a dictatorship 2 years ago and didn't punish any of the ringleaders, so they're gonna try again. They'll keep trying unless and until we do something about it, which we don't seem to be wiling to do. So eventually one of them will succeed.

        Once that happens you'll get the same situation we saw in Ukraine. A tired old Dictator looking for one last "hurrah". Nobody willing to tell him "no" since anyone who does gets thrown out a window or poisoned.

        There's a small chance we'll pull back from it, but I'm skeptical. Gen XMZ own virtually no property, with M & Z being especially screwed. They're going to demand a New New Deal, and the 20,000 or so families that run the show don't want to give up even a smidge of money and power. They're God Men. Like the Pharos of Old. Or at least that's how they see it.

        So the top 20k fams are gonna try and install a dictator to avoid parting with their money and power to any degree. About 20% of the country is gonna go along with that because they like being ruled over by a "Strong Man". Like the Taliban in Afghanistan the 80% will go along with it because they're just trying to get by and they're not overly violent like that 20%. Bam. Dictatorship.

        From there the economy will do worse and worse (dictators are good at staying in power but lousy at running a country) and we'll start doing military expansion to try and fill our coffers. Like Rome did. But with a modern military and nukes.
        • One of the better assessments I've read.

          I've been saying around 2025 would be the end of the USA for nearly 20 years and it just gets closer and closer when I really didn't put a ton into that estimate. Thing is as systems get more chaotic towards the end they by nature are less predictable. Like the climate, the long term trend is visible but the weather is too chaotic and getting more so.

          2024 election will be just a few months before 2025. People won't even realize how bad it is just like 2020 was clearl

          • Republican party bit off more than they can chew overturning Roe v Wade. It's intensely unpopular. Among the people in the pro legalized crowd is a well-known phrase called my abortion is the only justify abortion. We know a large percentage of women get abortions without ever talking about them. They are rapidly becoming political and registering to vote at rapid rates. You can't easily suppress their votes without risking suppressing votes you need to win. They're too spread out for gerrymandering or goin
            • by XXongo ( 3986865 ) on Friday September 09, 2022 @04:38PM (#62868171) Homepage

              ...If we can hold on to democracy for another 10 years the baby boomers seems to be a political force and the younger generations will demand that new new deal and still have the political apparatus in place to get it. It'll be another golden age. But we have to hang on for at least another 10 possibly 12 years

              You know, that's what they said back in 1968: just wait until the old guard die and we, the flower-power make-love-not-war generation, get political power. We'll turn everything around.

              Nope.

              (Turns out that the hippie faction was colorful and loud, but not actually a majority of the baby boomers).

              (But, on the other hand, the hippie faction did finally accomplish their #1 goal when the oldies finally died: they finally managed to legalize marijuana. Mostly.)

          • The British Empire fell nicely; the American Empire doesn't need to fall like say Germany post WW 1.

            But it will.

            On a macro scale, Americans themselves are like the upper 1% ruling elite and they will become ruthless to keep their "way of life"

            We won't even fight the shitheels here at home to keep our way of life.

      • When is Canada getting invaded then?

        NATO means you have America's nukes, just an Article 5 away.

      • If you don't have nukes you get invaded.

        When is Canada getting invaded then?

        They have the US nuclear defense, as the american keep mistaking them for their 51 state

    • Latin America and the Caribbean have the Treaty of Tlatelolco [wikipedia.org]

      They have agreed to no nukes, but they also aren't constantly threatening to invade or blow up their neighbors. WTF is up with that region of the world where Russia wants to invade everyone and the surrounding countries want to destroy each other? Morons.
  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Friday September 09, 2022 @12:52PM (#62867391)

    They just wrote it down.

    Face it, North Korea was never going to give up its nukes. It's quite literally the only bargaining chip they have.

    • by Fly Swatter ( 30498 ) on Friday September 09, 2022 @01:33PM (#62867557) Homepage
      They can't give them up, they are bordered by both China and Russia - that the media thinks the threat they are worried about is the US, an entire ocean away, is just ludicrous.

      What would you do? China wants to retake Taiwan and Russia wants to retake everyone but they just happen to be focused towards Europe today.
      • Perhaps the media thinks they're worried about the US because, technically, the Korean War *never ended*. We're in a very long ceasefire. Most Americans may have forgotten that, being all the way across the ocean as we are, but I promise you that North and South Korea and Japan never have.

      • North Korea isn't bordered by Russia.

        • by jbengt ( 874751 )
          Actually, North Korea has about 10 miles of border with Russia. Plus a similar amount where their water rights border each other.
      • by splutty ( 43475 )

        India and Pakistan are both also nuclear powers, and also closer than the US :)

      • LOL. North Korea is completely subservient to China. And that Russian border, ... you can run the length of it in a couple of hours. China's Taiwan argument haves nothing to do with North Korea. China has made no claim to own North Korea and they also have literally nothing to offer China.

    • It's quite literally the only bargaining chip they have.

      It's like saying the shit stuck to the sole of your shoe is the only bargaining chip you have. It literally hurts them in any negotiating position more than it helps them.

  • by haggie ( 957598 ) on Friday September 09, 2022 @01:02PM (#62867441)

    Couldn't another nuclear state take North Korea's statement as grounds for a pre-emptive nuclear strike on North Korea to pre-empt North Korea's pre-emptive strike?

    • Preemptive nuclear strikes are only effective against non-nuclear nations, unless the preemptive strike takes out all the attacked's nukes.

      • Oh, nonsense! If Russia wanted to nuke North Korea, they would without a worry in the world.

        It's not like Korea can deliver a nuke to any place that Putin would consider important...

        • That's insane. North Korea has a very long border with China. Russia isn't insane enough to go irradiate any of China.

      • Preemptive nuclear strikes are only effective against non-nuclear nations, unless the preemptive strike takes out all the attacked's nukes.

        I'm not even kidding when I say a single nuclear strike could wipe out the entirety of North Korea.

      • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        Preemptive nuclear strikes are only effective against non-nuclear nations, unless the preemptive strike takes out all the attacked's nukes.

        Not saying it's a good idea to kill a lot of innocent people to stop a lunatic from getting nukes, but the logical corollary of that statement is that if you're going to do so, the right time to do it is early, while that country has only a small number of nukes, so that their retaliation capabilities are limited. And the right way is likely with stealth bomber aircraft so that they don't see it coming.

        • Yes, although it would have been even better to do it before they had any nukes at all, thus reducing the retaliation risk enormously. But it is a heck of a decision to make to launch such an attack.

    • So far the nuclear states have shown to be reasonable. Regardless of what the media says. Just testing the things show both ability and hopefully the understanding that it is truly a weapon of last resort for anyone involved.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      If that was the case then WW3 would have started long ago with all the other nuclear armed states and their bravado.

      The only way the NK situation is going to be resolved is if Kim has a way out that saves face, or he is assassinated with no clear heir. The latter won't be pretty and could easily end up being even worse.

      • by splutty ( 43475 )

        I'm afraid that the only way for North Korea to ever get out of the mess they're currently in, is indeed assassination. Of the whole family. And then just keep going with whoever pops up to try to take over.

        Since that's not even remotely realistic (or moral), NK is most likely not going away any time soon.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Kim doesn't strike me as a fool. He must know that it only ends one if two ways, if not for him then for his as yet unborn son. I think if there was a way out he'd take it. What that would look like I don't know.

        • by XXongo ( 3986865 )

          I'm afraid that the only way for North Korea to ever get out of the mess they're currently in, is indeed assassination.

          As a note, the Soviet Union broke up as soon as people who was born after the Russian revolution took power.

    • That sounds absolutely MAD.

  • by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Friday September 09, 2022 @01:04PM (#62867447)

    Most nuclear nations have had their arms long enough to prove themselves to be reasonable respecters of the power they wield. Even the U.S. - the only nation to actually use them in war - has had 77 years since then sitting on a massive arsenal without incident. Hell, even India and Pakistan have yet to actually exchanged nuclear blows, and they've theoretically been armed for 40 years.

    I'm a believer that any nation should be allowed to pursue nuclear weapons as a defensive measure if they so choose. And other nations should be free to pressure them. Allowing the bullies to be the only so-armed entities is unreasonable. I am not even opposed to Iran becoming nuclear capable, really. They are not a friendly actor, but I think ultimately they are a rational one.

    But... I'm very close to just concluding that some nation's capitals need to be paved over and repurposed.

    • by IWantMoreSpamPlease ( 571972 ) on Friday September 09, 2022 @02:00PM (#62867633) Homepage Journal

      A long time ago a president said "I am not concerned with the man who has many nukes, I am concerned with the man who has only one."

      (or words to that effect..I don't recall the verbatim quote)

      • big difference: the man who only WANTS ONE
        Just 1 is a start but only needing one implies motive to actually use it.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The problem with nuclear armed nations is that it only takes one guy in charge crazy enough to try using them. Kim doesn't seem to be that crazy now, but he has decades ahead of him and the possibility of senility.

      As for other nations, we have seen how quickly democracy can collapse into dictatorship, and how even in democracies the leaders selected are not always what you would call stable and measured. You actually demonstrate the problem quite nicely...

      I'm very close to just concluding that some nation's capitals need to be paved over and repurposed.

      • by gtall ( 79522 )

        Yep, even the U.S. we used to have a president (alleged, however) that wondered whether the U.S. could nuke hurricanes to make them go away...probably to preserve a festering golf swamp in Florida. He also drew a line with a Sharpie on a hurricane path map and attempted to pass it off as real. Fortunately, when DoD realized what pile of fetid dingo's kidneys he was, started keeping the really sensitive briefing material to themselves.

    • I'm a believer that any nation should be allowed to pursue nuclear weapons as a defensive measure if they so choose. And other nations should be free to pressure them. Allowing the bullies to be the only so-armed entities is unreasonable. I am not even opposed to Iran becoming nuclear capable, really. They are not a friendly actor, but I think ultimately they are a rational one.

      Are you by any chance Dutch? This crap sounds like the stuff Dutch people say on Slashdot all the time.

      Anyway, let's see if you stick to your guns when in a few years North Korea says to South Korea "Surrender your entire country to us or we'll nuke you". Kim is not the rational player you think he is. Don't be surprised if he paints himself into a corner and feels that he has to do this.

      Your beliefs about Iran are not rational. Look up the Iranian Revolutionary Guards. The minute Iran

      • In case you missed the implication, I don't view North Korea as a rational actor, and I'm perilously close to thinking we should just pave over Pyonyang.

        I could look up the Iranian Revolutionary Guards (although with no guidance from you on what I should look for, I'm not likely to), but I could just as easily look up all of the questionable shit associated with every major nation.

      • "The minute Iran has nukes, they're going to attack Israel. It may end up being suicide, but the IRG are religious fanatics and they believe they can't lose."

        You're free to paint Iran in whatever pastel set of cartoony colours you choose to use. But I think you're wrong. If Iran was that single-mindedly convinced of their victory, and that hell-bent on destruction, there wouldn't have been a nuclear deal in the first place.

  • by EvilSS ( 557649 ) on Friday September 09, 2022 @01:08PM (#62867457)
    North Korea reminded the rest of the world that yes, they are still a thing.



    Guess Kim is feeling a bit ignored with all the other stuff going on right now.
    • N Korea could fire everything they have off and a lot of people would get hurt but the world wouldn't end.

      US and Russia? Yeah, let's not piss either of these two off. Scary as hell.

  • Kim Jong-un has polarized his people to want to destroy America. I am sorry, but I hope they get theirs.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]

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