Edward Snowden Receives Russian Passport (apnews.com) 111
Beerismydad shares a report from the Associated Press: Former U.S. intelligence contractor Edward Snowden, who fled prosecution after revealing highly classified surveillance programs, has received a Russian passport and taken the citizenship oath, Russian news agencies quoted his lawyer as saying Friday. Lawyer Anatoly Kucherena was reported as saying that Snowden got the passport and took the oath on Thursday, about three months after Russian President Vladimir Putin granted him citizenship.
The reports did not specify whether Snowden has renounced his U.S. citizenship. The United States revoked his passport in 2013, leading to Snowden being stranded in a Moscow airport for weeks after arriving from Hong Kong, aiming to reach Ecuador. Russia eventually granted him permanent residency. He married American Lindsay Mills in 2017 and the couple has two children. Further reading: Should the U.S. Pardon Edward Snowden?
The reports did not specify whether Snowden has renounced his U.S. citizenship. The United States revoked his passport in 2013, leading to Snowden being stranded in a Moscow airport for weeks after arriving from Hong Kong, aiming to reach Ecuador. Russia eventually granted him permanent residency. He married American Lindsay Mills in 2017 and the couple has two children. Further reading: Should the U.S. Pardon Edward Snowden?
Nonesense! (Score:1)
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He is exactly the guiding light of morality and justice that this world needs! He should do the same in Russia as he did in the US - show true COURAGE, and obtain/release many gigabytes of GRU secrets and security information. I'm sure Comrade Putin will be FAR more forgiving than evil Uncle Sam has proven to be.
How has the US been "forgiving"? They trashed his reputation, have warrants out for his arrest, he faces life in solitary if captured or execution, and they've tried several times to "acquire" him through all sorts of shady methods.
Are you saying it would be worse if Russia just said "fuck it", found him, and executed him on the spot as opposed to having a Ross-Ulbricht-style show-trial before they get rid of him?
Re: Nonesense! (Score:1)
They tried to kill the man and will using whatever methods possible.
He is simply doing what he has to, to keep his head of the block.
Get real dude.
You gonna volunteer to come back without a pardon?
I think not. It is suicide.
I would hate to be him. Probably wants to flee. Where can he go that is safe?
Re: Nonesense! (Score:2)
"They tried to kill the man and will using whatever methods possible."
Bullshit.
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Well, he's being forced to make a lot of "best choices" amongst bad options. In not cleaning up the case, the US kinda burned the bridge with him.
At this point, he's just trying to piece together some semblance of a life for himself.
Re: First comes citizenship then comes mobilizatio (Score:2)
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Intelligence agencies develop covert tools and methods to deal with adversaries, not waste time on your pathetic paranoid ass.
Oh my. Snowden revealed that intelligence agencies were using covert tools and methods to "waste time" on spying on your pathetic non-paranoid ass (illegally!). That is EXACTLY what everyone is so upset about. Everyone fully expects the intelligence agencies to to spy and keep track of foreigners. It is that these tools are being used against the "pathetic paranoid asses" AKA Citizens.
And ... here you are saying what you are saying ... Oh my indeed.
Re: First comes citizenship then comes mobilizatio (Score:5, Informative)
Even the TL;DR appeared too long? "The reports did not specify whether Snowden has renounced his U.S. citizenship"
All we know is that he got stranded in Moscow on his way to Ecuador: the U.S. had withdrawn his passport. So the Ecuadorian president flew over personally to pick him up, but then EU, violating all diplomatic immunity rules, did closed its airspace for that presidential airplane. Didn't Austria even ground the aircraft?
Later, Snowden asked for asylum in a bunch of EU countries, to which none responded. So yea he was stuck in Moscow. Properly stuck. Even after bringing to light how the US were tapping Germany PM's Merkel's comma, after bringing to light how GCHQ using NSA malware had taken over Belgacom's backbone (which connects much of EU including Swift and NATO), even then no EU memberstate did not grant Snowden asylum.
Belgium nor Germany didn't even formally complain or take sanctions against the UK for subverting an ally's comms: https://theintercept.com/2018/... [theintercept.com]
That's how independent from the US we are here in the EU.
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This points to one thing: The EU was aware of the secrets Snowden exposed, and was profiting from them.
Re: First comes citizenship then comes mobilizati (Score:2)
"Even after bringing to light how the US were tapping Germany PM's Merkel's comma, after bringing to light how GCHQ using NSA malware had taken over Belgacom's backbone (which connects much of EU including Swift and NATO)"
Throwing things against the wall to see what sticks. None of that justified what he did.
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None of that justified what he did.
The justification for doing what he did is that those tools were being used against Citizens illegally (well, they have laws which interpreted a certain way allow certain things, but seen for what they are, are against the literal founding documents, a violation of the US Constitution).
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Lack of citizenship hasn't kept Comrade Putin from drafting all sorts of other foreign nationals.
One can only conclude that, so far, Snowden is of more value to Putin as a propaganda tool than as a rapidly cooling dead body.
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I got my US passport (always been a US citizen) and I was not given a news story, lol. Weird how this somehow filtered out of the country. I mean, good for him, but are we going to have a Snowden day or something? Slow news today?
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Now it is easier to call him a traitor, that is the only reason this is "news".
Re: First comes citizenship then comes mobilizati (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: First comes citizenship then comes mobiliza (Score:2)
Re: First comes citizenship then comes mobiliz (Score:1)
He was suspected and was to be questioned and was still employed at the nsa a when he disappeared. All the assange and ny times mess happened after.
Re: First comes citizenship then comes mobili (Score:2)
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many of the documents released were to the ny times, assange named him as a source after he disappeared. he was charged after that still. he had no charges against him before he went missing from the nsa.
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so there were no reports of russian intelligence claiming to know his whereabouts before he was officially charged either? just asking.
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He was accused of selling sensitive information before the media disclosures.
I accuse you of raping my dead mother. *shrug*
At least we have a person who is doing the accusing (me) in my accusation. Who was doing the accusing in yours? What was their proof? Who was he trying to sell to? For how much? Why did he release the information for free? Because he failed at selling it?
I dunno man. It all sounds weird to me.
Dude (Score:3, Funny)
You had enough of US surveillance, and went to Russia? That's like moving to Alaska because Florida is too cold.
Re:Dude (Score:5, Insightful)
You had enough of US surveillance, and went to Russia?
He went to Russia because US intelligence wanted his head. And it doesn't matter where he goes; he's one of the most-watched humans on Earth and will be for the rest of his life. US intelligence will never lose track of him. Russian intelligence will watch him until the Russian government collapses. After the chaos subsides, they'll start watching him again. He'll be watched like a head of state as long as he lives, and better than many such.
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Re: Dude (Score:1)
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You had enough of US surveillance, and went to Russia?
He went to Russia because US intelligence wanted his head. And it doesn't matter where he goes; he's one of the most-watched humans on Earth and will be for the rest of his life. US intelligence will never lose track of him. Russian intelligence will watch him until the Russian government collapses. After the chaos subsides, they'll start watching him again. He'll be watched like a head of state as long as he lives, and better than many such.
He should be in jail. Even if you think he was right, he needs to go through our justice system. If anyone wanted his head they could take it already. Russia has no incentive to prevent it because it would only give them cover for their own polonium tea accidents. It doesn't matter where he is it would be a win for them. If they thought we would do that were he in US custody they'd hand him over with the tea bag. They're shielding him from our legal system, not offering physical security... it's Russi
Re: Dude (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: Dude (Score:1)
"We have no justice system. We have a legal system."
There can't be justice if you flee every legal system you disagree with. He's fleeing a prison sentence, and there's no way what he did deserves a pardon. He didn't leak an illegal program he leaked a ton of random stuff and let you pick your (un)favorite.
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I kind of like where you are coming from. I agree, he should face the legal system here; however, the legal system in insufficient in this case. It does not matter if he did it for any legally valid reasons (the validity can only be determined in a court of law) as in his case, the legal system is guaranteed to convict him. In other words, it will only be a show trial as "they" will get what they want: To hurt someone who hurt them.
Without the guarantee of a fair trial, why would anyone submit themselves to
don't be a fucking idiot (Score:5, Insightful)
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The one you replied to would regularly benefit from an ass-kicking; don't be surprised at his blatantly-disingenuous stupidity.
You have no argument justifying what Snowden did, just threats of ass-kickings over the internet. So to be clear, you're wrong, and unable to kick any asses. I bet that makes you feel weak don't it, like you want to kick the first ass you can just because you can, and they didn't even do anything. Ever have one of those you run into assholes all day; maybe you're the asshole moments or you still stuck on the first part.
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He showed that the US was engaged in widespread, unlawful surveillance and was willing to give up his life in the US to help the freedoms of millions of others. He's only stuck in Russia because the US engaged in crazy actions, including forcing the jet of the Bolivian president to land in Austria. He's making the best of a not great situation and he's never made any claim about Russia.
He didn't do shit for anyone's freedom. He dumped an entire classified file server and you all picked over it for juicy bits. Every idiot went through it and found some intelligence program they didn't like and said THAT'S why he did it, that program is the devil! Then about nothing happened because it was a big nothing burger to begin with. People saw what they wanted to see. The fact that so few of you question the volume of crap he dumped alongside the few things you took interest in worries me. Gi
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What do you want to see?
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Oh come on, does anyone really still believe him and Assange were anything other than Russian assets? There's a reason they're all too happy to leak stuff about Western countries, yet for some reason are happy to take money from, and in Snowden's case, live in Russia, and yet not expose significantly more horrendous government abuses by Russia.
He went to Russia because that was always the point - fuck over the US and we'll let you roll with the oligarchs. Assange wanted the same but got busted. There's a re
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Oh come on, does anyone really still believe him and Assange were anything other than Russian assets?
Does it matter if they were Russian assets? Or Chinese? Or even internal assets?
The information showed that the current government in charge of the USA is not following the laws of the country they are purportedly administrating. I suspect that is very relevant information regardless of source and motivation.
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Re:Dude (Score:4, Interesting)
Well... Russian passports are adorable. ...
They have a smaller passport inside, with a smaller passport inside,
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And inside the last one, is the poster listing all the countries where a Russian passport is useful?
Re:Dude (Score:5, Informative)
You had enough of US surveillance, and went to Russia? That's like moving to Alaska because Florida is too cold.
His original plan on was to go to Ecuador, but the US cancelled his passport and he got grounded in Russia.
Once you're a politically valuable individual stuck in Russia... well he's lucky he didn't fall out a window.
I will say his story was a bit weird since his original plan was to stay in Hong Kong, which isn't that much better. Though if you're looking for a place that won't extradite you to the US there's not a lot of good options [offshore-protection.com]*
* Unrelated, but I feel like that "Offshore Protection" company is designed to help a crook every step of the way from laundering money, to hiding assets, to disappearing when the authorities show up!
Re:Dude (Score:5, Insightful)
His original plan on was to go to Ecuador, but the US cancelled his passport and he got grounded in Russia.
he was grounded but only got stranded because Russia understood him as valuable. If he was inconvenient, Russia would have issued a 1954 Convention travel document https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] precisely intended for when a foreign citizen cannot obtain a passport from their country of origin, to let him get out of Russia and avoid possible diplomatic inconveniences.
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It wasn't just a documentation problem. If he left Russia he would be in danger of being rendered by the US. Grabbed off the street and kidnapped to Guantanamo, often called "extraordinary rendition". In Russia he is relatively safe from that.
He was planning to go to Iceland, but a small country like that might not be able to provide adequate security for him. The US operates extraordinary rendition in other European states that are much bigger than Iceland. Occasionally they get caught but you wouldn't wan
Putin could have gotten rid of him (Score:1)
Another option: Putin could have had him shot. And still could on any day of the week. But your comment should have been modded informative rather than insightful. And the inherited Subject was vacuous.
I've read a number of books on the topic, from a number of perspectives. I looked at all of the "Insightful" comments in search of evidence of similar reading. Didn't find any.
Most significant gap that I noticed was regarding Snowden's belief that the entire thing would have been hushed up if he had followed
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This is more an indication of how long the Snowden story has been going on, than anything about Hong Kong; but Hong Kong was actually a pretty good option, back when Snowden originally fled the US. These days, not so much.
The list you linked to has Taiwan on it, which would be a *really* good option (relative to the rest of the list), if it indeed really belongs on the list. However, a lot of Taiwan's foreign relations have majo
Re: Dude (Score:2)
I am know your joking but Russia actually has very little surveillance. The infrastructure required for that is simply not something that Russia has invested in ( unlike China or even the UK )
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mobilized? (Score:1)
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Martyred (Score:1)
Never underestimate the importance of martyrs to tyrants. It's up to you to decide whether I am talking about Putain, Biden, or both here.
In other news, apparently I have upset the Leftist Twitter horde enough to create some truly hysterical replies [twitter.com] to commonsense realism.
It simply reminds me of why I do not trust the mob, no matter whether they are rushing to crucify or lionize some outlier....
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QAnon (Score:1)
I am skeptical of anything that is too symbolically convenient. Lots of QAnon theories seem to depend on coincidences between dates, times, and public signals. Like the obsession that some on the Right have with a literal Satan, this strikes me as odd and probably not relevant.
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Nihilism (Score:1)
Consider the possiblity of nihilism [utm.edu]:
Per relativity, the Bell Curve, and the differential of experience, it is unlikely that "truth" exists as anything but a symbol.
Teenage angst? (Score:2)
Re: mobilized? (Score:2)
He has turned into a pawn
This puzzles me. Even pawns have value. I can't think of anything Russia has to gain in harbouring him other than "Ha ha ha, suckers!"
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I can't think of anything Russia has to gain in harbouring him other than "Ha ha ha, suckers!"
That s true but this seems to be good enough for many existing situations. Many countries give asylum to foreign dissidents for pretty much the same reason.
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aaaaand he's drafted (Score:2)
Well maybe not just yet. Though it appears that anyone IN Russia, even on a visa, can get drafted at this point, so just BEING there seems to be risky. I don't get that at all. (it's giving them a great opportunity to reduce crowding in their jails also, depending on whose news you trust)
Whole world's on its way out in a handbasket these days it seems...
Snowden is the only person (Score:5, Insightful)
capable of making Russia look better than the US.
Shame on Putin for starting the war on Ukraine.
Shame on Putin for destabilizing the entire world and making everybody poorer because of energy prices.
Really... Fuck Putin with a wire brush. I hate the bastard with all my heart.
But shame on the US for giving Putin an opportunity to save Snowden's ass, look good doing something good and remind everybody that the US is just as democratic as Russia.
I know Putin doesn't give a shit about democracy and only granted Snowden residency to piss off the US, but the end result is that he did something praiseworthy. Because ultimately, Snowden is precious to whatever's left of our freedom.
Re: Snowden is the only person (Score:1)
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Hopefully Putin's days are numbered. Apparently he has cancer and it's not going well for him.
The only problem is the next guy might be just as bad, or worse.
Where are the snowdens of yesteryear? (Score:1)
Dude was a leftie hero for leaking his leaks. Now he's taken Russian citizenship just at the time the lefties have decided that Mitt Romney was right after all.
On the flip side, the dude was a rightie hero for making the Obama administration look bad with his leaking. But then he went and de facto gave up his citizenship, which would make a true scotsman's I mean righties head explode with incomprehension.
Maybe he's just a dick?
Re: Where are the snowdens of yesteryear? (Score:3, Insightful)
Dude was a leftie hero for leaking his leaks.
He was an anti-establishment hero. Don't go getting confused just because some cowardly, sold-out RINO's spoke shit about him.
Re: Where are the snowdens of yesteryear? (Score:2)
Naw...I'm not that green guy. By the time the leaking happened, the Democrats had built up about a decade of street cred with the tinfoil hat crowd convincing them that George W had his kgb listening in on them what with FISA and the patriot act.
One can still see the remnants of this propaganda in local government in leftie jurisdictions like Brookline MA that won't authorize surveillance cameras because evil gubmint.
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How so? I am no fan of his and think he should face charges in America, though he had little say in him 'giving up his citizenship' (US does recognize dual citizenship, annoyingly) or seeking new citizenship. As TFA notes, the Obama administration yeeted his passport and more or less trapped him in Russia.
What would you have him do? Turn himself into American authorities for a free government ride back to face trial? I don't most of what he did, but his t
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Now he's taken Russian citizenship just at the time the lefties have decided that Mitt Romney was right after all.
HAHAHAHAHA no. No leftists think that Mitt Romney was right about anything. He's a spineless cuck who likes to pretend for a few seconds that he is not an abject coward before bending right over for whatever his betters insist upon.
You can tell the American idiots from the comments (Score:5, Insightful)
Snowden let people know what the world should know about American surveillance. He went to Russia because if he stayed in America he would have been put in jail for doing what is right. It says more about America that the guy can only remain relatively free in a country with one of the shittiest governments in the world, than it does about him.
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Re:You can tell the American idiots from the comme (Score:4, Insightful)
Snowden is very principled. I eagerly await his forthcoming disclosures of Russian transgressions as well.
There's no reason to think that he'd have access to sensitive information. He's demonstrated he's a principled individual once, so nobody with anything to hide would share it with him moving forward.
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Snowden let people know what the world should know about American surveillance. He went to Russia because if he stayed in America he would have been put in jail for doing what is right. It says more about America that the guy can only remain relatively free in a country with one of the shittiest governments in the world, than it does about him.
How free is he really in Russia? I'll assume that they figured he already spilled all his valuable beans to the world, so it wasn't worth the risk to interrogate him (though it was probably a consideration). But he certainly understands that he's very limited in what he is allowed to say [theatlantic.com]. Not to mention that being a political pawn means that someone might decide it's helpful to remove you from the board.
And of course, at any point Putin (or his successor) might decide to hand him over to the US as part of s
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On the other hand, how long do you think Snowden would have done in prison if he simply turned himself in and made his case in a courtroom?
The rest of his life... but I expected the same for Manning and here we are, Manning is "free" now. I think.
Thank God there are different countries (Score:3)
Mind you, US is much nicer in Russia, but we are not perfect and it's good that our whistleblowers have places to go and tell their stories. Just like someone who wants to expose Russia, China and Iran can get political asylum in US. This alone is a reason enough to wish for peaceful competition between sovereign nations rather than a global world order.
None of this is a praise for Putin or excuse for Ukraine / poisoning his own dissidents. But for perspective, plenty of civilians in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria were killed as a result of US involvement and survivors are not living in stable liberal democracies. Say these wars were only 10% as bad as invasion of Ukraine by whatever calculus (Volodymyr Zelenskyy does seem a lot nicer than Saddam Hussein). Still, we need whistleblowers like Snowden, Assange and Manning to tell American people the truth and make US better over time. If it sometimes takes our enemies to keep us honest, so be it.
Now Russia can draft his butt into the Army (Score:1)
Renounce US citizenship? Good luck with that. (Score:4, Informative)
Do you really think Uncle Sam will let his valued subjects escape his grasp so easily? No sir! For a start, the US expat will be needing to prove compliance with the extraterritorial mandates of the IRS, going back five years. I would be extremely surprised if Mr. Snowden has been diligently filing the assorted pile of paperwork to declare his "foreign" earnings and accounts to the IRS for all that time. He will be in need of lawyers and accountants to make careful calculations of arbitrary fees, fines, and penalties, as well as any back taxes he may be required to pay.
When this lengthy and onerous process is complete, he will have earned the right to fork over another few thousand USD, and his passport, be be finally free from the Land of the Free.
Note that the US is the only country in the world that does this to it's valued citizens. Oh, sorry Eritrea, I didn't see you there! Correction: The US is one of a rarefied club of despotic regimes that imposes taxation on their citizens living abroad. Just look up FATCA if you don't believe me.
Escape from Russia (or China, or Canada, or any other country) is easy, by comparison.
Omitting the most important part (Score:3)
after revealing highly classified surveillance
Don't they mean, highly illegal mass surveillance of Americans?
let's remember (Score:2)
...as Snowden is repeatedly implicitly and explicitly demonized by US government and their fellow-travelers, let's recall that Snowden did NOT intend to end in Russia.
He was fleeing, and was changing in Moscow when US diplomatic efforts prevented him going elsewhere, leaving him stranded.
US government officials bragged about this.
So let's not paint him as some Putin stooge when we are the ones that trapped him there. Certainly Putin funds him useful, of course.
Make him a diplomat? (Score:2)
If I'm Putin, I'm declaring Edward Snowden the Russian Ambassador to the United States of America.
And the Russian representative at the UN.
The look on Biden's face when it's announced... priceless...
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If I'm Putin, I'm declaring Edward Snowden the Russian Ambassador to the United States of America.
And the Russian representative at the UN.
That would be hilarious, but an Ambassador requires agreement from both countries for the Ambassador to walk freely in the foreign country. Still, I like the idea. :)
Where did his wealth come from? (Score:2)
As much as the airline industry
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If it takes a double income to keep a parent and a few children away from financial ruin, you live in a shitty country. And the airline tickets you speak of cost much less than a one day stay at a US hospital, so you are essentially telling us you'll never be able to afford even treating a mundane injury.
This is why we all have insurance, because we can not afford to pay from our own funds for a mundane injury.
thanks for noticing this!
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This is why we all have insurance, because we can not afford to pay from our own funds for a mundane injury.
Yeah, but insurance writes enough fine print that a lawyer couldn't possibly tell you what the insurance company will actually pay. $30,000.00 for a broken wrist and therapy? The large print says you will be out of pocket $5k, but the small print makes you pay almost $10k. For a broken bone. Which should have cost less than $1k.
I am glad insurance comforts you. It does not comfort me and many others.
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This is why we all have insurance, because we can not afford to pay from our own funds for a mundane injury.
As I have pointed out before, the insurance industry adds at least $54B of non-productive spending to the health care equation every year [slashdot.org] , and likely quite a bit more. If the industry went away entirely the cost of health care would actually decrease across the board.
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Do you think that might be why you don't have lots of ready cash?
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I'm married, I have two kids
Do you think that might be why you don't have lots of ready cash?
When I was single and in my 20s I did not have anywhere near the funds required to hop a last minute international flight, or even a well planned international flight. Go ahead and look up what it would cost to you fly from your closest major airport to Hong Kong tomorrow; it's not a sight for those of only moderate means.
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Cheaper than I expected, and a lot less than my voluntary over-repayments of my student loan when I was 25.
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Cheaper than I expected
I just searched Orbitz today for one-way flights from NYC to Hong Kong. The soonest I could get was a few days out for around $1,200. There were zero options for departures in the next 48 hours on any carriers they list there.
While I could have at that age put it on a credit card (obviously I still could) that would have been a substantial amount to charge and would not be trivial to pay off. Being as I would then be leaving with no defined plans - which also raises the question of how he ever made
Let Us Known When He's In Ukraine.. (Score:2)
So this means he can be inducted into the Russian military. I hear rumors they will have another large round of conscriptions in January or February.
I suspect they might protect him from induction or assign him to a safer unit, so long as he stays loyal to Russia.
Snowden is a traitor who deserves death (Score:1)
I could pull the trigger myself.
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Then you have no wish to see if the system that governs you has lost its course? Roger roger. Some people deserve absolute trust and should never be examined for any reason ever. Your leaders are the most incorruptible people that have ever lived. Do they have an incorruptibility rating next to each candidate on the voting ballot now?