Silicon Valley and Capitol Hill Build an Anti-China Alliance (wsj.com) 56
A group of Silicon Valley executives, including investor Peter Thiel, and Washington lawmakers are quietly mobilizing against China's involvement in the U.S. tech industry ahead of TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew's Capitol Hill testimony next week. From a report: They plan to meet for a private dinner on Wednesday to discuss China, national security and the intensifying competition between the tech sectors of the U.S. and China. Mr. Chew is scheduled to testify the following day. Momentum against TikTok is building. The U.S. government and a succession of other Western countries have blocked TikTok on government-issued devices. The Biden administration has demanded that TikTok's Chinese owners sell their stakes in the video-sharing app or face a possible U.S. ban, The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday.
Mr. Chew said in an interview with the Journal that divesting TikTok from its Chinese owners doesn't offer any more protection than the plans TikTok has already proposed. Spearheading the effort to create the bipartisan, bicoastal alliance of China hawks is Jacob Helberg, a former Google policy adviser who is the newest member of the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, a congressional research and advisory panel. Mr. Helberg also serves as an adjunct senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, a think tank that specializes in national-security issues, and a senior adviser at the Stanford University Center on Geopolitics and Technology, which is dedicated to research on global competition. One of Mr. Helberg's priorities has been to meet with lawmakers in Congress every couple of weeks to urge them to ban TikTok. The group is calling itself the Hill & Valley Forum, and plans to speak about its concerns about China at the coming dinner, which is expected to draw approximately 200 attendees. The dinner was paid for by venture-capital firms 137 Ventures and Founders Fund, as well as Mr. Helberg.
Mr. Chew said in an interview with the Journal that divesting TikTok from its Chinese owners doesn't offer any more protection than the plans TikTok has already proposed. Spearheading the effort to create the bipartisan, bicoastal alliance of China hawks is Jacob Helberg, a former Google policy adviser who is the newest member of the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, a congressional research and advisory panel. Mr. Helberg also serves as an adjunct senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, a think tank that specializes in national-security issues, and a senior adviser at the Stanford University Center on Geopolitics and Technology, which is dedicated to research on global competition. One of Mr. Helberg's priorities has been to meet with lawmakers in Congress every couple of weeks to urge them to ban TikTok. The group is calling itself the Hill & Valley Forum, and plans to speak about its concerns about China at the coming dinner, which is expected to draw approximately 200 attendees. The dinner was paid for by venture-capital firms 137 Ventures and Founders Fund, as well as Mr. Helberg.
wat (Score:5, Informative)
You mean "deliberately started a bank run" Peter Thiel?
Re: wat (Score:1)
Thank you for this textbook example of a 'dog whistle'.
Of all the people involved in this, the summary mentions one by name. Completely by coincidence. Not meant to whistle to the dogs. Not at all. Honest!
First coment responds accordingly. Modded up.
Thank you too for illustrating what a 'Pavlov dog' is.
Bravo everone! Mao and Stalin would be proud of you!
Re: (Score:3)
Explain to me why the owners of the site would want that. Base your explanation on known facts.
Re: wat (Score:4, Insightful)
You can judge people by the company they keep, so if Thiel is involved, it probably involves some sort of anti-competitive evil.
Re: wat (Score:1)
paging Rip van Biden (Score:4, Insightful)
China's been the US's literal enemy for 20 years.
Welcome to the party, US government and Silicon Valley.
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That's what silicon valley also said about Japan, when it was kicking US ass in semiconductors in the 80s. Later on US destroyed Japan's semiconductor industry.
Re:paging Rip van Biden (Score:5, Informative)
An economic rival, is different than an enemy.
Apple and Microsoft had been economic rivals for generations, however they are also they are each others best customers.
It is the same with the US and China. We both want access to each others customer base, as China has a huge population to sell to a lot of people, and the United States has wealthy customers who can pay a lot more. However where previously there was a divide in what China sold and what the US sold, they are more closely becoming more similar.
So US based companies now have to compete on the same field as Chinese companies in areas they use to dominate. As well as the US trying to insourse much of our manufacturing means Chinese firms will need to see if Cheap Labor vs Efficient Labor.
As well each country has very different culture and ideas, thus seem to each other that the other side is cheating on what should be a civilized way of doing business.
I am not trying to advocate for just an Open Door policy to China, nor a lock China out of everything. As there are also additional geopolitical concerns to consider, and making sure each countries populous can be satisfied. However if there is too much of a lockdown of Tech sharing between the US and China, The US may fall behind China in technology available and what it can provide.
Re: (Score:1)
As well as the US trying to insourse much of our manufacturing
I think you meant "incource"
Re: paging Rip van Biden (Score:3)
Links? Proof of any sort? Anything other than "well everyone knows..."
Did people just fucking forget how to conduct meaningful discourse entirely? Facts are now identical to opinions, the media has gone full propaganda mode, and the common populace who were deprived of an education that included things like logic and reasoning are just left arguing for those who take advantage is them.
Circling the drain? I think the drain is above us all at this point because all i see now is bullshit.
Never Forget (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't disagree overall with the idea, China is a serious issue in tech... especially tech theft. However Pete and his pals are kind of like Cubans in Florida: They may claim to totes hate the communismz, and thus Cuba should be completely isolated. At the same time they'll buy stuff made in communist China at Walmart and Amazon every single day of the week without a care in the world.
Never forget that basic fact. This is only to protect their power, not to protect the USA.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I despair at us, like Knut trying to turn back the tide. The moment the economy starts to sour, all the investment gets pulled back to protect quarterly numbers. Meanwhile China ploughs ahead with R&D.
Re: Never Forget (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Nah, it's not just that.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine was a wake-up call for the West. It was at least helpful as a reminder that dictatorships will sometimes do stupid, imperialist shit like invading other countries and destabilizing the world. So maybe we shouldn't be investing in them and building them up economically.
Yeah, and before anyone comes crying "BUT WHAT ABOUT IRAQ!!?" just your quick reminder that even though the WMD's were bullshit, Iraq was a menace ruled by another dictator who had already i
Re:Never Forget (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah, and before anyone comes crying "BUT WHAT ABOUT IRAQ!!?"
We can be honest here, Iraq was a huge mistake by the USA, and never should have been done. Also, the post-invasion was handled extremely incompetently by the Bush administration.
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
True. I was a huge critic of the stupid Iraq invasion by the dumbass Bush administration. And why? Because I was afraid of *exactly* what is going on right now. Russia and China, and their apologists, pointing at the US and saying: oh, look who's talking.
HUGE mistake that, as feared, is now being exploited by the enemies of the West to the fullest.
But of course, US invading Iraq, a country ruled by a brutal dictator who had already invaded his neighbors on occasion, is not the same as Russia invading a demo
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Russia's invasion of Ukraine was a wake-up call for the West.
Not just that, but China has sold Russia military supplies before, and there is a concern that they will do it again. On one hand, trading less with China makes that more likely. On the other hand, trading more with China when they will probably do it anyway makes no sense...
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blah blah blah dictator. Millions of lives ruined because pretending to get rid of dictators, when they don't like the US. But happy assist dictators when they can be used by the US.
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You should put things into proper context. This was during the cold war, where the choice was between bad and worse: fascist dictators or communist dictators. And at least the former protected free trade and private property.
And yes, the communists were as bad or worse than the Nazis. In terms of raw numbers of how many people they killed through starvation and mismanagement, the communists in the Stalin in the Soviet Union, and Mao in China killed many more people than the Nazis did.
And throughout its hist
Re:Never Forget (Score:4, Informative)
I wouldn't have added "Helped stop the German Empire in WW1" if your list is focused on US military action for the greater good. Maybe just "Helped end WW1" instead. I think it would be wrong to consider Germany the "bad guys" in WW1. The causes of the first world war are very complex, as were the causes of various pre-war alliances which caused a regional dispute between Austria-Hungary and Serbia to explode into a world war. Austria-Hungary, Serbia, Russia, France, and Germany all had their own large role in causing the war.
Austria-Hungary arguably deserves the lion's share of the blame for invading Serbia, but Russia's mobilization (having no formal treaty with Serbia) was very self-serving as it ultimately desired control of the Balkans. This Russian mobilization is what made war inevitable in my opinion, because Germany was forced to act. And we'll never know for sure if France would have honored its treaty with Russia, because Germany didn't take that chance and attacked France first.
I think the atrocities of Nazi Germany clouds people's memories of Germany's role in the first world war. This war took place in an age of great power politics where there was rarely a good guy and bad guy. None of these countries were "good guys" by today's standards, they were colonial powers whose atrocities would make them look worse than Russia does today. Although the worst risk Russia's invasion brings in my mind is the possibility of a return to great power politics. That would be a much worse world than today's liberal world order, even with the frequent hypocrisy of liberal countries.
Re: (Score:2)
Fair point. But notice I only said "Stop the German Empire" not "The evil or genocidal German Empire".
If I'm not wrong, US contribution to WW1 was mainly directed against Germany due to German U-Boats attacking merchant vessels. And that US contribution helped in weakening and demoralizing the German Empire, which brought a quicker end to WW1, which was a good thing.
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This war took place in an age of great power politics where there was rarely a good guy and bad guy. None of these countries were "good guys" by today's standards
None of them are good guys by today's standards, either. Today most of the thuggery is economic.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah. Some sort of coordinated pushback against China should have started years ago, quite frankly.
But Peter Thiel? He is not a good-faith actor, and never has been. This is a guy who went on a years-long rampage against an entire network of publications because one journalist wrote something that annoyed him once. And he created a company whose entire purpose is to help the most corrupt and shady arms of the government to spy on us... quite brazenly naming that company after the evil talisman that the
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Thiel is an anti-free-speech, anti-journalism, pro-government-surveillance, pro-police-state, authoritarian goon. He'd fit in perfectly with the CCP.
Yes, but only if he were a ranking member of the party. Otherwise their whole central control system is directly counter to what men like Thiel want — to control the government, not the other way around.
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To be fair, however, Gawker did eff themselves over.
Thiel waited YEARS for them to get full of themselves and screw up to get even. Even with the lawsuit it didn't have to be fatal to the company. They probably could've survived handily if they had yanked the video right away while fighting the
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You say this like this is new.
A democratic republic system of government, has leaders elected by the votes of the people. While the leaders have the power to go against the general public will, it will often come back to bite them in the next election.
Jimmy Carter served one term, because his agenda didn't mesh with what the people wanted (being too aggressive on a liberal agenda, with little care about the nuance of the issues)
Donald Trump served one term, because his agenda didn't mesh with what the peopl
Re: Never Forget (Score:2)
"At the same time they'll buy stuff made in communist China at Walmart and Amazon every single day of the week without a care in the world."
You might want to go see who shops at Walmart. Give you a clue, MAGA hats were made in China. Not that it matters anymore, everyone is busy hyperventilating about fucking TikTok.
Fun scavenger hunt for anyone who still actually cares...
Answer this:
How many other apps use code originally from TikTok?
Oops.....
But no really, it's all bout 'Murika mmkay? Sure thing kids, su
Just give an US exclusive license to the name (Score:2)
A new company for which Bytedance only has non voting shares would have an infinitely better firewall against data leaks, economic incentive.
With TikTok as it is, key employees are going to be expats who report to their local Chinese "police station". Firewalls don't prevent an USB stick wandering off premises, nor will a third party auditor. A corporate structure which will employ compromised employees on demand undermines any technological fixes.
Not to point out the obvious (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not to point out the obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
Most of the world does not want to ally with US and Europe because they were screwed by them one too many times. Iraq - first friend then mortal foe. Afghanistan - first friend against Russia, then foe. Iran - first friend with friendly regime, then foe and axis of evil. And look at the mess in south America that US made. And now we do everything to end our relationship with China. That is after shipping all of the manufacturing to them for 20+ years.
As far as technology goes, If I look at science and math education in US schools, China will win this race. My kid took SAT exam and who is in the exam? Overwhelmingly Indian and Chinese kids. Most of them first generation born in US and some are immigrants.
If you look at engineers working at these high tech companies, very large percentage is from China and India. Why? Because US school education sucks and people don't go for hard science subjects. If US does not get its collective head out of its ass, the technological war is lost. No amount of sanctions will prevent this.
Re: (Score:2)
Only a person ignorant in geography wold say this. China, India, Indonesia and Pakistan constitute most of the world. An these countries are not against China.
No one is against China. It's better for everyone, including the US, to be friends with China and just trade. Besides, China is a beautiful country with a long and excellent history, with a strong literary tradition that is worth reading. But who can support human rights abuses?
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US abuses human rights just as much as anyone else.
Yeah. Who can support those human rights abuses?
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Learn history before posting, mate.
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Only a person ignorant in geography wold say this. China, India, Indonesia and Pakistan constitute most of the world. An these countries are not against China.
By population, that's a reasonable analysis, except for India [india-briefing.com]. They're not stupid, they see China as a threat because they know China sees them as one. Indonesia has little choice, they are dependent on China. Pakistan has no other real options either, they have alienated everyone else, much like Russia. No developed nations fear invasion by the USA, so they're still all happy to trade with us. They might not invite us to open [more] military bases on their soil, though.
However, by currency amount, it's not
Seems a bit overstated (Score:4, Interesting)
dumb (Score:3)
Rich and super-conservative entrepreneur seems competition from China and tries to leverage Government to control competition.
I have no interest in TikTok but I cannot see banning TikTok without also banning Meta. We can only speculate about TikTok, we have actual evidence of Facebook issues and yet we do very little and it takes a very long time to do anything.
Bans are not the answer, public education is the answer. A ban says the government knows better than you (but looks the other way when a US company pulls shit). I don't trust the government to get anything right, especially when it bans something.
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Like all US social media companies, Facebook is part of PRISM. PRISM is part of five eyes. So there is zero logic in the idea of the government terminating Faceboot just because they're going after TikTok. It might make sense from a citizen's point of view, but absolutely makes none from a national security standpoint.
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For businesses, this is just an attempt to get the government to strong arm the competition. Thiel only cares about the bottom line, its not about China for him, its about market share.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure, Thiel is typical wealthy scum. He gives zero fucks in general, and lobbying is a thing. But you did invoke the government.
The problem with TikTok (Score:1)
The main issue with TikTok is not data security as some would have us believeit’s that a communist regime, that suppresses any opposition up to and including straight up outlawing the establishment of any other political parties, controls via TikTok what millions of young and/or impressionable minds are exposed to. Just look up the so-called TikTok Heat button. All basic psychology confirms that with such a tool social and political viewpoints can be significantly manipulated. My view is that TikT
The Golden Age is Here! (Score:3)
Committee Chairman Mike Gallagher, R-Wis., said:
“We are pausing capitalism so that each citizen can get nutritious meals, good healthcare, unlimited education opportunities and not be stressed out by joblessness, debt collectors, poor internet connections or even bad relationships.”
He goes on to say: “However this is no time to slack off. To help you focus on being productive we are also pausing Facebook, Twitter, and all other time wasting social platforms. We're getting your strength to maximum power!” Full details of the plans are listed at the congressional website.
But first check out the theme song - to get you in the mood - a trip back in time is all you need: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Oh look, an obvious shitty China troll. China and their entire government can go choke on a bag of dicks and die.
They lost me at Peter Thiel (Score:4, Insightful)
Anything that guy is involved with can't be good for the American people.