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The Almighty Buck Government United States

Tax Preparation Industry Alarmed Over Plan For IRS Free Tax-Filing System (nytimes.com) 235

An anonymous reader quotes a report from the New York Times: The Biden administration's $80 billion overhaul of the Internal Revenue Service is facing a new line of attack, this time from lobbyists representing tax preparers who fear that the agency's growing power will cripple their businesses and infringe upon taxpayer privacy. The fight is over a potential plan for the I.R.S. to create its own tax-filing system that would allow taxpayers to submit their returns directly to the federal government at no cost. That type of free service could diminish the need for those provided by tax preparation companies like H&R Block and TurboTax. The idea, which is still being studied, is stoking backlash from Republicans and business groups who argue that President Biden's plans to bolster the I.R.S. will give it even more power over ordinary taxpayers.

The I.R.S. received a giant infusion of money as a result of the Inflation Reduction Act, a sweeping climate and energy bill that Congress passed last year. That legislation set aside $15 million for the I.R.S. to conduct a study to determine how it could develop a program that would let Americans file their tax returns directly with the agency. The I.R.S. is expected in the coming days to release its plan for how it intends to spend the $80 billion that it was allocated as part of that legislation. Republican lawmakers have maintained firm opposition to the funding, which will help the agency hire 87,000 employees, and have been taking steps to claw it back. [...] Democrats have long pushed to make filing free for everyone, seeing that as a way to make the process easier and less costly. But that ambition could upend the business models of the multibillion-dollar tax preparation industry, which earns hefty fees for helping people navigate the tax code.

Several companies already provide free tax-filing services through the I.R.S. website to those who earn less than $73,000, and the agency provides forms that taxpayers who do not need any guidance can use to file their returns for free. Some other software platforms offer limited free services for simple tax returns that also do not offer guidance through the process. Initially, a tax-filing system developed by the I.R.S. would be similar to the existing free options. But proponents of the idea believe that over time it could evolve to become a more comprehensive system that would provide taxpayers with returns that are already filled out based on wage data that the I.R.S. tracks. At that point, taxpayers could just sign off on their returns as easily as responding "yes" to a text message.

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Tax Preparation Industry Alarmed Over Plan For IRS Free Tax-Filing System

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  • by e065c8515d206cb0e190 ( 1785896 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:04AM (#63413872)
    Shame on you
    • by The Real Dr John ( 716876 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:12AM (#63413898) Homepage

      Another fake US industry invented to screw over working people while making money for corporations and their owners/investors. The US government knows more about the money I make than I do. They send me all the documents on it, then I have to put numbers they send me on a page and send it back to them. For crying out loud, they had the documents all along!! They don't need me to put them on another piece of paper and send it back.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        When you do your tax return you are checking their numbers for accuracy and completeness; or do you just want to blindly trust the government to calculate you return every year and get it right?

        • by jacks smirking reven ( 909048 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:43AM (#63414008)

          Every proposal for having the IRS handle most peoples taxes i've ever seen includes them sending you what is basically the completed return for you to just "sign off", if you find a discrepancy then you have the time and ability to correct it.

          • by luvirini ( 753157 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:52AM (#63414028)

            This is the system here in Finland.

            They send a Pre-filled tax calculation either in paper form or if you only want look at it online you can unsubscribe the physical form.

            You then look though it and if there is something wrong you either correct them on the paper form and send it or correct them online.

          • Why doesn't the IRS just make their current system publicly available for citizens? Allow us to add in the things they don't have (cash income, charitable contributions, etc) and enter a dispute for values that were provided by third parties (interest, dividends, etc). This would make it easier for them AND for the citizens, so there's little chance it will ever happen.
            • Because their current system is not designed for citizens to use.

              The IRS is dealing with an immense technological deficit, it having been underfunded for decades on the computer front.

              As for the the direct file happening, which is the very reason for this article, Biden passed some stuff enabling it, is that various tax preparation companies EXIST on the idea of making most Americans spend $80 or so for them to do their taxes.

              I refuse to pay them, so I always find the "Free file" exceptions, but that takes

        • by Ksevio ( 865461 )

          If the IRS could do my taxes, then I could just review a document and approve it, that would be fine with me

        • Honestly, I've heard enough issues about tax preparers and tax preparation software that I'm not sure that it makes any material difference. If you have fairly basic taxes, there's no reason the IRS can't just plop out the right answer. If you have a complicated tax situation, you shouldn't be using freakin' Intuit, but should be going to an accountant.

        • by The Real Dr John ( 716876 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:41AM (#63414320) Homepage

          Checking for accuracy and challenging their numbers can be done in an online form at the IRS and everyone knows it. There is absolutely no need for everyone to have to do all that paperwork since all of the documents come from corporations and the government. Obviously the situation for corporations and the wealthy is different, but for most Americans that use tax filing software, there is no need to this archaic, time consuming and costly system.

          • by sjames ( 1099 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:00AM (#63414382) Homepage Journal

            Interestingly, when income tax was first implemented, the intention was that only people wealthy enough to need an accountant anyway would even be required to file. Unfortunately, the threshold value wasn't indexed to inflation and so bracket creep eventually brought income tax and the headaches of filing it to the masses.

            • Funny thing is? My mom was an accountant. She actually has, framed, an original copy of the first tax return form.

              I read it. Compared to today's, it's both extremely simple (one sheet of legal sized paper), and fairly hard, in that a lot of things are still very vague and ill defined.

              But the only people expected to deal with it was the top 1% or so, so meh.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      If your job gets replaced by a website, did you really have a job to lose?
      Sounds like make work handouts/welfare for slightly educated people. Can't they learn to pick fruit or something useful?
      • by Passman ( 6129 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:18AM (#63414114) Homepage Journal

        Sounds like make work handouts/welfare for slightly educated people. Can't they learn to pick fruit or something useful?

        It's not even make work, the vast majority of returns processed through these companies are never touched by a human.

        It's more like make profit. The only folks who get anything out of the current tax preparer system are the shareholders.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by northerner ( 651751 )

          I agree. The tax prep companies have inserted themselves into the tax process to skim their money. It just like the way the credit card companies have inserted themselves into almost every purchase to skim a few percent off the entire economy.

    • And this represents your complete power as a tax paying citizen.

      You can yell 'Shame on you' all while the government does what the corporations want them to do.
  • by Anonymous Coward
  • Oh Noooooo... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by OfMiceAndMenus ( 4553885 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:07AM (#63413882)
    Whatever will we do if we don't need to pay people to fill out a form for us!?

    A vast majority of people have very simple tax filings. There's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be able to fill out some simple info from their W2 or 1099(s) and send it through without a bunch of red tape (ironically, less red tape from the IRS than the private sector).

    Typical anti-citizen overreach from the republicans. Not surprised there. If it's useful to a lot of 'normal people' and not just the rich, or can be used by people who definitely won't vote for them, they're firmly against it.
    • Re: Oh Noooooo... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by e065c8515d206cb0e190 ( 1785896 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:13AM (#63413900)
      On top of that, why should I have to share a bunch of important personal information with private companies in order to file my taxes? Makes no sense. To this day I still do my taxes myself, with printed forms. Not the easiest. But other options are worse.
      • FreeTaxUSA site is pretty good. Free federal filing, and state is cheap.
        • Re: Oh Noooooo... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by e065c8515d206cb0e190 ( 1785896 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:36AM (#63413976)
          Thank you. Still a private company that has no business knowing my social, address, email, phone, income.
          • I’ll start with a giant “I agree” to what you’ve said, but then I’ll also point out that they need your opt-in consent before they can share any of that data with third parties, hence why they almost all have an ominous checkbox along the way that may use dark patterns to try to trick you into agreeing to sharing. The good ones put it right at the start with plain language. The bad ones put it right at the end and will use vague terms that may leave you thinking that they

        • And they don't have anything in their TOS that prevents them from selling your data to Meta like many other sites were doing.

          https://arstechnica.com/tech-p... [arstechnica.com]

      • Agreed (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Inglix the Mad ( 576601 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:50AM (#63414212)
        My wife and I need to use an accountant today. As business owners our taxes more complex, can't get around that mess. When I was younger? You bet I did them myself. I did succumb to the Intuit for a couple years after college when things started getting more complex... but that was dropped fast when I started a business.

        Not surprised this happened... because it's been proposed before, and was attacked / eliminated by the same groups at that time. I think it was during the Clinton years they wanted to have the IRS just have an eFile form that would probably work for more than 75% of Americans. Any wonder why Intuit and HR Blockheads started frothing at the mouth? Can you imagine the loss of revenue if people weren't intimidated by a lot of paper?
    • Re:Oh Noooooo... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bugs2squash ( 1132591 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:09AM (#63414080)

      Why even make people fill out a form. The form should be sent to me securely by February 1st, all filled out so that all I need do is either sign and return as-is, make small amendments or replace with forms I filled in myself by the April 15th deadline

      If I do nothing at all the form should be considered approved by me after April 15th and I should be able to go back and re-file for previous years should I wish

    • Re:Oh Noooooo... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:48AM (#63414206)

      A vast majority of people have very simple tax filings. There's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be able to fill out some simple info from their W2 or 1099(s) and send it through without a bunch of red tape (ironically, less red tape from the IRS than the private sector).

      It's 2023. There's no reason this shouldn't be automated like it is in most countries. Fine I have a tax agent, but then I have three properties earning revenue in 3 different countries, and calculating the redress from double (triple?) taxation is mission. But before I started moving around the world my tax return consisted of logging into the governments website, clicking "I agree" to my completely pre-filled in tax return based on my employers, banks, insurers, etc, etc, etc delcaration to the government, and filling out maybe one or two deductions. If my tax return took me longer than 5 minutes something complex happened, like I had to change my address or telephone number.

      99% of people do not need to report tax, the government already knows everything they need to know about you. Only in America do they still make you jump through these hoops.

    • Re:Oh Noooooo... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <slashdot.worf@net> on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:48AM (#63414208)

      Whatever will we do if we don't need to pay people to fill out a form for us!?

      A vast majority of people have very simple tax filings. There's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be able to fill out some simple info from their W2 or 1099(s) and send it through without a bunch of red tape (ironically, less red tape from the IRS than the private sector).

      Typical anti-citizen overreach from the republicans. Not surprised there. If it's useful to a lot of 'normal people' and not just the rich, or can be used by people who definitely won't vote for them, they're firmly against it.

      Of course. The rich need tax preparation agencies, not because their taxes are complex, but their tax avoidance strategies make it even more complex.

      The vast majority of people don't have access to such strategies because many often require a minimum amount of money to take advantage of. So their filings are generally very simple.

      The rich realize this because they're going to be hit hardest - they're needing such services but without the proles to finance and pay for most of it, they're going to have to pay more in taxes, or more to companies to handle their tax avoidance.

      And that, we know is a very un-American situation.

  • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:19AM (#63413914)

    Back in my days before computers we use to be able fill out a 1040EZ tax form. They even had a class that showed you how to fill it out in my High School (it was one class, but still) Fill it out, and mail it in.

    It is actually frustrating to have to use a third party company to fill out my taxes. (I tried the free ones, and they had some crappy excuse on why they couldn't electrically send my taxes, where I had to pay to get my taxes done, and that problem didn't exist for them)

    • In past years, it has been noted that Big Tax companies have offered "free filing services", where it was exceedingly difficult to get to them, where they offered excuses such as you describe for not being able to file YOUR taxes, etc. I would not put money down that they had changed their stripes.

      You may have hit one of those sites.

  • by DrSpock11 ( 993950 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:32AM (#63413954)

    GPT-4 can already understand the tax code and compute taxes. How long before someone turns this into full-fledged product to compete with Intuit and HR Block? It's going to be hard to compete with a LLM that has a complete understanding of the intricacies of the tax code at a level few humans ever could.

    • When GPT gets it wrong and the IRS fines you $10,000, is OpenAI going to make you whole?
      • I don't see why there would be a fine if an IRS approved AI messed up, the taxes would be re-calculated and any difference would be payable/refunded

        If of course the AI was lied too, say abut unreported cash income, that should be prosecutable

        But then I'm sure there are many people who feel that paying their taxes is always a "fine" and that they have a right to lie to under-count their income

    • That's actually a great use case for this type of information and LLM AI systems.

      It would need maintaining to be trained on law changes and such, would probably need a LLM base to have the language interpretation and writing skills.

      UAT would be a massive effort and all results would need a human review before use (at least for a while).

      Medical imaging analysis is another, completely unrelated, area where AI can be applied now.

      These systems can effectively address "data analysis" problems but require trainin

    • This! All of the keyboard twiddling middleman capitalist busy-workers (KTMCBW) should be quaking in their boots these days.

      If your job can be done by voice recognition, pattern matching, and copy/pasting from tables of data then its days are numbered; even the ego stroking the managers require that makes them want a floor full of people to oversee is not going to stop it. The manager that manages the people will likely be replaced by the best actual worker whos new job will now be to supervise and optimize

  • by slipped_bit ( 2842229 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:33AM (#63413960) Homepage

    Every American can already file for free directly on the IRS web site. There are two options, depending on income level. Below a certain income level they walk you through the process, similar to the paid tax software. Above a certain income level there is less hand-holding -- you may have to read instructions and do some (not all) of the math yourself, but it's not that difficult, even if you need to fill out multiple forms and schedules. I've used it for the last several years and it's worked well. So basically this $15M will be spent to study how to do what they already know how to do.

    Sadly, the lobbyists for Intuit et al. are constantly trying to get laws passed that would force the IRS to remove this feature.

    • My complaint with the FreeFile forms was that that I had to manually re-enter the entire W2 into the system. They already have my W2, why do I need to re-enter it? They have my SSN, so all they need is my employers tax ID and maybe my employee number as a cross check.

      Along with the general clunkiness of the web interface at the time it proved to be easier to mail in the forms. A six by nine envelope and the stamp and a half postage is much cheaper than inTuit or anyone else, given my nine page return. (Last

  • Privacy? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bert64 ( 520050 ) <bert@NOSpaM.slashdot.firenzee.com> on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:33AM (#63413964) Homepage

    How exactly is a tax filing system provided directly by the IRS a threat to privacy?
    Your tax filings can either go through a third party first and then to the IRS, so that both the IRS and the third party know the details, *OR* under the new system the same tax filing details can go directly to the IRS so that only the IRS and no third party knows the details.

    The IRS gets the information either way, but under a direct system noone else does. If anything, this is BETTER for privacy.

    This is just greed and FUD on the part of completely superfluous third parties looking to gouge tax payers.

    • The CEO's of these Tax firms, can afford remote mansions where they can live in Private without other people bothering them. I mean this law could force them to live in *gasp* an upscale housing development where they have to interact with neighbors who might know their face if they want to step outside their house.
       

  • by srmalloy ( 263556 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:36AM (#63413974) Homepage

    ...tax preparers who fear that the agency's growing power will cripple their businesses...

    “There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to the public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute or common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back.” -- Robert A. Heinlein, "Life-Line", August 1939

    • by Whibla ( 210729 )

      "There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to the public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute or common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back." -- Robert A. Heinlein, "Life-Line", August 1939

      If only the above were true. Alas, it no longer is [10isdsstories.org].

  • They should just copy the Taxchopper.ca style and plug in the American Tax Return lines and links. Hell, Taxchopper.ca should either just go ahead and make it or someone American should franchise it.

    The year after H&R Block dinged me for hundreds of dollars to do my first tax return I was dead set on never paying the 'Ignorance Tax' again. I did paper returns for the next ten years then when I was living with an accountant I was introduced to EFILE and decided to see if there was a good, cheap way for m

  • That argument is laughable. The IRS gets your information anyway. You won't have to use the tools that the IRS provides, just most of the people that file thier taxes will.
  • About time. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Fly Swatter ( 30498 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:53AM (#63414032) Homepage
    If by law you have to file, then the government should not require anyone to have a third party involved just to do math. Especially when the IRS already knows almost all the numbers in play.

    -Down with the buggy whip leeches.
  • by Ritz_Just_Ritz ( 883997 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:00AM (#63414052)

    And then most of us could file our taxes with a postcard. Then all these "tax preparers" could go out and find honest work.

  • by doubledown00 ( 2767069 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:05AM (#63414068)

    Republicans: We don't need new laws, just enforce the ones already on the books.
    IRS: Good idea! We'll hire additional staff.
    Republicans: You can't do that! Wharrgrrbbblll etc.

    IRS: You know what else? The majority of tax returns are easy. Most people take the standard deduction. What if we make our own way to directly file?
    Republicans, self interested software companies, and CPAs who wouldn't exist without tax season: WWWHHHAAARRGGGBBBLLLL!

    I hate to recycle a GOP talking point, but if you don't want to use the IRS software then don't. But what the IRS has identified here is a whole bunch of unnecessary arbitrage that is affecting much of the tax paying public.

  • Two for flinchin'.
  • Taxes over here are quite easy. First, for almost everyone, taxes are already paid before you get your money and tax is included in everything you buy. So there's almost no way you didn't already pay what you owe to the state, at least when it comes to income. For property, you get a mail that you owe X amount and you better pay it because there is very little discussion about whether or not you owe it. It's your property, you owe it. Period. No buts, no ifs, no bullshit. For interest and other financial in

  • by dentar ( 6540 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:19AM (#63414120) Homepage Journal

    If Intuit, et. al. are afraid of this system, then they should build a better one that can do it better than the free solution. Remember, people still purchase Microsoft Windows and Apple Mac OS despite Linux being free.

  • Why should it cost me even more money to pay my taxes? Of course the government should provide tax paying services for free. You want my money? Then make it easy for me to give it to you, it is a no brainer.

  • And nothing changed....

  • by bickerdyke ( 670000 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:05AM (#63414244)

    So, how are those tax prepares filing your taxes? Are they printing it out and mailing it in? I doubt that. But if there is already a way to digitally file your taxes by one of those companies as a proxy, why can't you use just that??

    Wouldn't it make more sense to provide a general way to electronically file your taxes and then pay tax prepares as necessary to do the work of preparing your tax documents and have them file it using the same interface?

  • These firms can be useful for complicated cases (if you trust them) but in this case they are just rent seekers and leeches trying to profit from a service nobody really needs but people are basically forced to use. We can submit our forms for free in Canada. I use a free software (GenuTax - donations requested) package that is updated every year. You can input all your info or auto-request the info from CRA to fill in whatever info they have (mostly everything). It goes through every line of the tax fo
  • In the rest of the world most people never file taxes ... ...if you are employed then the company employing you does it

  • It's paywalled. Here is a GPT-4 generated summary:

    ---
    The Biden administration's proposed $80 billion IRS overhaul aims to modernize the agency, hire more staff, and enhance its technology, thereby increasing its ability to crack down on tax evasion. One major component of the plan is to create a free, direct tax-filing system that allows taxpayers to submit their returns directly to the federal government without any costs. This move could potentially hurt tax preparation businesses like H&R Block and T

  • by sarren1901 ( 5415506 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:22AM (#63414282)

    We've heard this song before. I can't remember how long ago it was, but at one point the IRS agreed not to make it's own system if the industry itself made it so a basic w2 filing was made free. Most companies buried this under 10 links and made it nearly impossible to use.

    I suspect what will happen is the industry will cry a lot to their bought and paid for politicians and once again, we won't get this IRS tax filing system for our basic w2 returns.

    I've heard in a lot of other countries, you don't even have to file. That makes sense because your employer sends the IRS all that information anyway. Why should you have to send the same information again? You get your w2 from your employer anyway. The whole reason a lot of us even have to file is so we can make a middle man rich, aka the tax preparation industry.

    I understand if you are a 1099 or trying to take advantage of a lot of various deductions, losses and gains but if all you are doing is submitting a w2 and checking a few boxes for some tax credits, why should that cost you anything? Answer, because this is American and we are all about making businesses rich at the expense of the tax payer, aka the consumer.

    It doesn't help that we have an incredibly convoluted tax code designed for big business and the wealthy to take advantage of. Nor does it help that we are trying to promote social justice with that same tax code. It just makes the whole thing a mess.

    Why do you think the most audited people tend to be the bottom half of the income earners? Simple answer, because they don't have the money to defend themselves so it's easier to just give over more tax dollars. Large companies and wealthy people have accountants and lawyers. It cost the IRS way to much to go after them but cost practically nothing to go after the middle class and lower.

    But that's what the US government is for, big business and the wealthy!

  • We already "allow taxpayers to submit their returns directly to the federal government". Just print out the completed form and mail it in. The minimal next step would be to also allow PDF uploads. That would accomplish the "at no cost" part. Better would be to create a simple (e.g., CSV or JSON) file format that I could upload, and they could import without risk of image recognition errors.

    Even better would be for the IRS to pre-calculate my taxes and supply a CSV/JSON/PDF/US-Mail download for my review

  • by larryjoe ( 135075 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:53AM (#63414362)

    Mr. Norquist argued that if the I.R.S. took over the filing process, it would lead to more audits and less privacy.

    “If the government does your taxes for you, they have to know everything about you,” he said. “It is the end of economic privacy.”

    The idea of a tax return is that the taxpayer voluntarily sends private financial information to the IRS. If the process of creating the return is free instead of for-fee, how does that impact privacy? What would be private that wouldn't be included in current for-fee filings or that wouldn't already be part of the IRS's huge database of financial records?

    The tax filing industry collects more then $10 billion in annual revenue. That's the problem with trying to reform "inefficiency" in any economic market. That inefficiency doesn't refer to money that is burnt in a bonfire, but rather someone collects those profits. Some corporations and people get very rich from this inefficiency, but a huge number of people (including ordinary Americans) depend on that inefficiency for their livelihoods. This is also true for railroad workers, longshoremen, factory workers, health insurance industry folks, etc.

  • by groobly ( 6155920 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:55AM (#63414366)

    I would love to give turbotax the finger. What an annoying piece of parasitic leech. I tried to do just that by trying the HR Block software one year. Complete and utter garbage; had to go back to turbotax.

    When the govt takes over, expect real quality stuff. Yeah, right. I'm sure they will make the HR Block POS look like a super winner.

    US govt no longer knows how to do anything right. Republicans purged any competent Democrats, Democrats purged any competent Republicans; all that's left is the losers, led by nincompoops.

  • by ScooterBill ( 599835 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:20PM (#63414638)

    I've tried the file for free options at some of the online tax service providers. The problem is similar to extended warranties where they have a long list of things that bump you out of the "free" service and require you to pay for it. Not just the income limit but things like if you have dividend income or other common items you get to pay. I would like my tax dollars to be used to help me do my taxes. It's the government's fault they make it so freaking complicated.

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