NYC Establishes First Minimum Wage For Food Delivery Workers (gothamist.com) 128
New York City's food delivery workers will be guaranteed a minimum wage for the first time under new regulations announced by Mayor Eric Adams. Gothamist reports: Tens of thousands of delivery workers are slated to make at least $17.96 per hour plus tips by July 12, and at least $19.96 an hour by 2025, city officials said. That's a sharp increase from what delivery workers make now. Many take home less than the city's minimum wage of $15 an hour. The $19.96 hourly rate is less than the $23.82 the Department of Consumer and Worker Protections originally proposed last November -- but is still almost three times more than what delivery workers currently make, according to the city agency.
Sunday's announcement comes after months of back-and-forth between delivery workers, elected officials and app companies over the minimum wage rates. City officials blew past a Jan. 1 deadline set by City Council legislation to establish the new wage rules. Delivery companies, like Uber and DoorDash, argued that the new legislation will force a raise in prices and less schedule flexibility, while some advocates claim these companies are manipulating employees into testifying against the measure. DoorDash spokesperson Eli Scheinholtz said the company was considering litigation against the city over the new pay rules. "The ones that bring you pizza in the snow, and that Thai food you like in the rain," said Mayor Adams. "This new minimum pay rate will guarantee these workers, and their families, can earn a living. They should not be delivering food to your household, if they can't put food on the plate in their household."
Sunday's announcement comes after months of back-and-forth between delivery workers, elected officials and app companies over the minimum wage rates. City officials blew past a Jan. 1 deadline set by City Council legislation to establish the new wage rules. Delivery companies, like Uber and DoorDash, argued that the new legislation will force a raise in prices and less schedule flexibility, while some advocates claim these companies are manipulating employees into testifying against the measure. DoorDash spokesperson Eli Scheinholtz said the company was considering litigation against the city over the new pay rules. "The ones that bring you pizza in the snow, and that Thai food you like in the rain," said Mayor Adams. "This new minimum pay rate will guarantee these workers, and their families, can earn a living. They should not be delivering food to your household, if they can't put food on the plate in their household."
So stop tipping? (Score:5, Insightful)
Assuming the big rate change here is that these staffers are being changed from contractors or tipped-workers, to standard workers. Assuming we should expect 'delivery fees' to significantly increase, and offset that by ditching tips?
Re: So stop tipping? (Score:3, Interesting)
This will decimate the legitimate industry, it'll go grey market instead.
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Like all those other industries when people received pay bumps?
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Yeah you told everyone if they didn’t like their job then they should get a better one. They did.
Now you’re complaining “no one wants to work anymore”.
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Oh, take your propaganda and shove it. How much was McD's CEO's bonus last year, and how much was his salary increase? How many millions... but spending a few million to raise minimum wage salaries (come on, let's see you live on $7.25/hr) is damaging to the company?
I'll not that Aldi's was advertising $15/hr several years ago, and they're expanding like mad.
Um... how? (Score:2)
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This will decimate the legitimate industry, it'll go grey market instead.
Or maybe people will realise that it's not actually that hard to just pick up their own damn dinner, and start doing it themselves.
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Or maybe people will realise that it's not actually that hard to just pick up their own damn dinner, and start doing it themselves.
Last time I visited America I saw a fast food restaurant that serves food direct to your car. I think the idea of picking up your own dinner is beyond many people out there, especially those who can't even be arsed getting out of the car to eat their fast food.
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Last time I visited America I saw a fast food restaurant that serves food direct to your car. I think the idea of picking up your own dinner is beyond many people out there, especially those who can't even be arsed getting out of the car to eat their fast food.
It's worth noting that that style of restaurant is based on "1950's drive-in restaurant" nostalgia. Said restaurants have no inside seating and usually have some limited patio seating. You do not generally drive away when the food comes but rather eat in your car in the bay you pulled into or at one the patio tables. Meal is typically followed by ice cream.
Not to say there aren't plenty of lazy people in the US, but picking on drive-ins doesn't prove the point you think you're making.
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Not the best option when you've been drinking...I thought you wanted us to stay off the road when we've had a few....?
That's when a LOT of delivery service is used my friend....
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Ok, maybe a common scenario would help.
You have a bunch of guys over to the house to watch college football all Saturday.
You're drinking beer all day...towards the end of the day, you're all wanting something to eat...
You don't want to drive then....so, you order delivery.
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You're drinking beer all day....
I think I found your problem.
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I take it you don't have a lot of friends that you gather with regularly to watch sporting events, or the like?
The scenario I describe is VERY common in the US during college football season....where you have games being played ALL day every Saturday for about half the year....
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That is not true. We suddenly, collectively all decided to stop drinking Bud Light for example. Oh wait.
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This story is about New York City. Surely in New York City there are plenty of places within walking distance, no driving necessary.
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You mean back to where restaurants don't have to pay uber, grubhub, etc. extortion and can just sell food to customers? ... and then have sufficient money to pay their own delivery guy(s) to bring out food?
It would sure be nice. I never had a problem getting food delivered BEFORE it cost me 20+ bucks and pre-tipping.
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You mean back to where restaurants don't have to pay uber, grubhub, etc. extortion and can just sell food to customers? .
Wait, what? I could have sworn working with UberEats and Grubhub was voluntary on the part of the restaurant. If you want to limit your reach and volume, you can decline to participate.
You may go out of business because you'll have far fewer customers but it's a (less and less every day) free country.
(Legally speaking though, when I buy through a food delivery service, who am I transacting with? I don't use any of the services so I don't know. Am I buying the food from the restaurant and they pay Uber to de
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Like it has in Europe where they get (a higher) minimum wage, and Tips are not really a thing ...
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$18/hr in New York ain't jake or shit (Score:2)
If you can't afford to pay your delivery driver get your damn food.
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I work in IT, it is a service job. No one tips me when I bring them a new mouse or show them where to click. In high school, I worked at a full service gas station where I checked oil and tires, washed windows and filled the tank, no one ever tipped once. Is it because I made too much money pumping gas?
"Because we've always don it this way." is not the best reason to continue doing something. Tipping is bullshit and needs to be abolished.
What the fuck did delivery guy do to earn the tip, walk from the car t
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I work in IT as well. Yes, it is a service job, but I am lucky enough to be salaried and make a decent living. Because of this, I can afford to tip, and if I can't do 25-30% for a tip, I don't buy it. Inflation is eating people's lunch, so if I can help make it easier for someone who has to put up with me, I try to.
A lot of IT functions can be replaced by IT. A chef cannot, even though billions of dollars have tried. At best, one gets a limited function robot that churns out stuff and still needs techs
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Correction, a lot of IT functions can be replaced by AI, although in reality this shifts the workload from creating stuff in a blank file to debugging something that could be utter garbage.
A chef does so many things that replacing one is impossible unless we get to the AGI or ASI stage. It takes a lot of knowledge to check if a fruit has spoiled, check texture, add just enough garlic, but not too much, ensure stuff is cooked right... and be able to change to cooking some eggs with cheese with someone.
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do you tip your real estate broker? or your lawyer? what about the medical professionals that might see to you? if not, why not?
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Most IT jobs beyond shitty retail also are exempt and don't get overtime.
The geeks got the shaft as usual back in the 90's ... and we still haven't figured out how to get around that.
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What the fuck did delivery guy do to earn the tip, walk from the car to the door?
Spend money on gas? Put wear and tear on his car? Schlep your box of rice and "chicken" covered in orange sauce across town like a 19th-century servant, just so you wouldn't have to put on pants?
I'm sorry you pumped gas for cheap assholes in high school. That isn't a reason to tell someone that their paycheck, which they can't even make rent with, is plenty of money for all the time, work, and expense they put in making sure your lazy ass doesn't have to leave the house.
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I work in IT, it is a service job.
And do you currently get paid less than minimum wage and are unable to make ends meet? If you think my post was about tipping then you massively missed the point I was making.
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Go to Spain. Enjoy good food, enjoy good service, no tipping. Are Spaniards all cheap fucks?
When your boss is an ass and pays you $2/hour plus tips and you count on the tips for your income that is one thing. When you get paid a fair wage for the work you then you no longer rely on tips and you can be treated like everyone else in society. Simply doing your job is no reason for a tip.
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In Spain, if you're abusive to service workers, (a) They or their manager will tell you where to go, &/or (b) the other customers/clients will tell you where to go.
But being abusive arseholes to service workers is the American way.
Re:So stop tipping? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not talking about being rude when I say 'treated like everyone else', I'm talking about compensation. Why are servers in a different pay class than the rest of us? I'm in favor of removing this special class and treating servers, financially, the way we treat everyone else.
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Yeah, I'm totally for living wages & ending dependency on gratuities. It's degrading to workers. I live in Spain & I get on very well with the staff at my regular cafés & bars. And yeah, nobody from here tips.
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The last time I was in Barcelona, someone I met was surprised that I was American. They told me that I didn't look American. It was such a compliment.
You all have some really great food in Spain. I'd move there if it made sense for me.
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in pretty much every other country on the planet, you have to earn the tip. you also wont have your food spat in the next time you visit because they thought you were "cheap"
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Re:So stop tipping? (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's a funny thing.
Even though there's a minimum wage that's equal to the current minimum wage, no one tells you to stop tipping.
Here in BC, Canada, they minimum wage is $16.75/hr (Canadian). The minimum wage was like $5 less if you were a tipped position, but that was eliminated by the government years ago, so everyone earns the same regardless of if you have tips or not.
Yet there was no peep about getting rid of tipping. Even though no one needs to work for tips anymore, and in fact, the request for tips has only gone up.
Something to consider, really. In some places, they don't need tips to survive because by law they have to be paid identically. The end result is everyone now requests tips.
Because folks know minimum wage still ain't enough (Score:2)
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Cars? Who tf is doing food delivery in NYC in a car? They're ALL scooters and ebikes. Occasionally a real motorcycle or actual bicycle but rarely.
The only delivery i've gotten in a car in *years* was the time someone hired Uber Delivery to bring me a box of fresh baked cookies because they were too sick to deliver them in person.
Re:So stop tipping? (Score:4, Interesting)
There's something amazingly American about the first reaction to people getting paid better than fuck-all being to stop tipping. Can't have someone else earn a living, not when I want my stuff CHEAP dammit!
That's not it actually, other people are being squeezed to, someone puts an item in a bag for you and wants you to tip them 5$ (That's a sarcastic exaggeration to be clear as someone will act like it's literal).
I think however, you should absolutely raise wages or charge whatever you want, whatever you think fixes the problem, but be prepared to lay in the bed you made. Prices for many things have gotten so expensive, it's outside my budget. That's all. I just have to go without those things.
Order two medium pizza's? 35$? 5$ delivery charge? Plus a 5$ tip? 45$ for two medium pizza's delivered two blocks away? If you feel that's what it's worth for you to provide that service, go ahead.
But tipping is the first thing that's outside my budget, then as the prices rise, ordering overall is out of my budget. Not a big deal but.
Basically you can demand what you want, and refuse to do it for less, but you might get surprised pikachu face when people just say I'm not interested in paying for that service at that price. And that's OK, you don't have to do it. You'll have to figure out something else to do that people will pay you what you want to do it.
That's how it always worked, and still works, so people don't have to get mad about not getting their pizza cheap, but you also don't get to be mad if no one is ordering pizza anymore because they're not willing to pay that much for the service, they don't have to buy it for that much, you don't have to deliver it either.
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45$ for two medium pizza's delivered two blocks away? If you feel that's what it's worth for you to provide that service, go ahead.
I thought NYC was supposed to be the epitome of a "walkable city". Where you can live without the luxury of a car. So, let them go fetch their own pizzas. They are going to need the exercise anyway.
I live in one of those suburban hell-holes where they claim everyone "needs" a car. There is a good pizza place less than a 10 minute walk from my house. So much for life in the big city. It's not "walkable" if you have to pay someone with a vehicle to deliver stuff.
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I thought NYC was supposed to be the epitome of a "walkable city". Where you can live without the luxury of a car. So, let them go fetch their own pizzas. They are going to need the exercise anyway.
I live in one of those suburban hell-holes where they claim everyone "needs" a car. There is a good pizza place less than a 10 minute walk from my house. So much for life in the big city. It's not "walkable" if you have to pay someone with a vehicle to deliver stuff.
Oh no...it's not. Certain parts of MANHATTAN are walkable. And by walkable, I mean we're used to not thinking twice about walking 10+ blocks (half mile+) to get somewhere including to a subway. If you live anywhere else (Brooklyn, queens, bronx, or upper manh) or it's later in the evening you can expect to walk easily twice that.
Oh, and busy subway lines during rush hour you get trains every 7-10 minutes when nothing's broken. Outside that the wait can easily be 20-30 minutes with the perpetual 'track w
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So, let them go fetch their own pizzas. They are going to need the exercise anyway.
Sure but the pizza place that you paid 35$ for, is also going to ask you if you'd like to just give them more money.
This tipping issue is far beyond just a delivery driver. You go to subway, you pay them to make a sub, and it asks more money (a tip) at the debit machine.
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I got an 'oops' door dash a couple weeks ago. Guy refused to take it back so whatever.
$45 for two burgers, one tater tots, 2 soda cans and a milkshake. Oh, and that's just the food bill. After fees and tip and whatever else that was at like $70 for "not bad" burgers for two ppl.
Yah, it's NYC but even so...that's just insanity. Tell me again how Gen Z (or whoever is crying latest and loudest) is broke and can't live off $100k/yr :)
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That's not it actually, other people are being squeezed to, someone puts an item in a bag for you and wants you to tip them 5$
So here's the question (and point I was making which you seem to have missed): Why do you think someone should provide you a service for next to nothing? Those people putting an item in a bag and then requesting a facetious $5 tip go home after working a full day relying entirely on that tip just to keep the lights on.
My point was not about the proliferation of tipping, it's that you and the OP seemingly expect your life to be propped up by slave labour (which is about the only description possible for some
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You need some serious correction. You deliberately took something I said out of context, took it literally and I even put the disclaimer that it was a sarcastic exaggeration, before someone tries to take it literal, but here you are. It's almost like people know your type.
Here's the point you missed. When you do something, I expect you to be paid the agreed upon rate and that's typically in this scenario something you work out with your employer. It is not my responsibility to just give you more money. "I
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Umm...yes. Because people SHOULD be paid a livable wage and not at the mercy of a discretionary gratuity to pay their bills.
It works just find is most of the rest of the world ... but then again so does healthcare.
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What piece of shit country are you from?
Must be artisianal pizzas at those prices.
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That brings up another point, people tipping based on a percentage of the meal cost. It is the same effort to deliver artisinal pizzas as it is to deliver a hamburger but I imagine the pizzas get better tips.
People should be paid sufficiently with base pay, and get tips when they go beyond, like climbing a lot of stairs
The drivers themselves are powerless unless they unionize (that always goes down well here) or the legislature steps in
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Forever ago (late 80s) and in Florida, delivering pizza paid a bit more than minimum wage (like 25c/hr more) plus 5% of your order totals plus whatever tips you got. This was at two sole proprietorship type places as well as Dominoes.
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And today that 5% (more) goes to the grubhub etc. instead ... and that's when they aren't illicitly front-ending your restaurant without your knowledge at higher prices w/ shitty service.
The whole model is based off abusing workers and making it nearly impossible for any small company to exist without them, much less compete. Hell, Uber managed to basically overthrow the Taxi (medallion cabs) monopoly/cartel in NYC. Those medallions are fixed in number, transferrable/salable, and required for a street-hai
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why dont you tip nurses then, m'lord?
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I don't know how you think money sent by the government overseas is some sort of reflection on individual Americans, particular given that it is far more a matter of diplomacy than altruism. As fo
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Let me get this straight (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Let me get this straight (Score:5, Insightful)
Pay the waitress a decent wage. Problem solved.
Tipping culture is abusive to workers and customers -it exists only for the benefit of employers.
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Tipping culture is abusive to workers and customers -it exists only for the benefit of employers.
Further to this, it also allows greedy asshole customers to delude themselves that "trickle-down economics" actually works.
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Pay the waitress a decent wage. Problem solved.
Move to Europe...problem solved. Oh, and that pesky healthcare thing too.
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Move to Europe...problem solved. Oh, and that pesky healthcare thing too.
You have solved our homeless problem! They can all just "move to Europe"...
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Tipping culture is abusive to workers and customers -it exists only for the benefit of employers.
A number of high profile restaurants have tried this and AFAIK they've all walked it back. I don't know if it was resistance from the wait staff or customers. I personally really liked getting paid in tips because (a) I could evade income taxes and (b) I could (could, not would) make bank if I did a really good job. I think some, but definitely not all, waiters who agree with me. IIRC, the wait staff generally supported the idea of tipless dining before it was put in place. The experiments I remember genera
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A number of high profile restaurants have tried this and AFAIK they've all walked it back. I don't know if it was resistance from the wait staff or customers. I personally really liked getting paid in tips because (a) I could evade income taxes and (b) I could (could, not would) make bank if I did a really good job. I think some, but definitely not all, waiters who agree with me. IIRC, the wait staff generally supported the idea of tipless dining before it was put in place. The experiments I remember generally increased their wages so they should have taken home the same amount of cash. If anyone knows why these experiments failed, please share.
I don't know anything about that specific experiment but from speaking to people working in bars and restaurants, they all fucking loved tips. And I don't blame them, who'd give up $20 for bringing a bottle of wine to the table. Maybe some customers missed being able to threaten waiters by withholding tips too. I dunno.
I fucking haaate tipping, holy shit. I'm all for people earning a good wage but for fuck's sake just include it in the bill and don't force me to choose between fucking myself or being an ass
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Yes and no.
I agree that the server should be provided at least minimum wage and I also agree that should that server go above and beyond to make my meal a positive experience, they should be tipped.
I absolutely agree that servers that are paid some ridiculous low hour wage (2.15 or whatever) and rely on tips supplement is just plain wrong.
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1) the VAST majority of NYC delivery is via (illegal, unregistered, uninsured) scooters, mopeds, and e-bikes
2) the wage difference is shy of 4 bucks/hr which is about 5 miles at 66c each - drivers in central manhattan will probably drive about that in an hour
3) drivers get tips equal to what waitstaff do, but they get them BEFORE accepting the delivery
4) wait staff show up to work...delivery drivers need (some kind of) vehicle so there's capital investment, maintenance, and responsibility
Oh, and 5) wait sta
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1) the VAST majority of NYC delivery is via (illegal, unregistered, uninsured) scooters, mopeds, and e-bikes
So what you're saying is that it's even cheaper than what I thought.
2) the wage difference is shy of 4 bucks/hr which is about 5 miles at 66c each - drivers in central manhattan will probably drive about that in an hour
They'll drive that an hour, and deliver to 3-4 places, getting 3-4 times the tip. And 66c per mile is for a car, so driving on a scooter has even lower overhead.
4) wait staff show up to work...delivery drivers need (some kind of) vehicle so there's capital investment, maintenance, and responsibility
Refer to your #1 (illegal, unregistered, uninsured). And we already accounted for 66c per mile.
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It doesn't make sense, but neither does pointing to one example of a crap practice when addressing another. A delivery worker now has a minimum wage. Great. Your comment shouldn't say "How does this make sense" it should be "Do waitresses next!"
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A waitress' wage in NYC is $14.20 as subsidized by tips...
This was my reaction too. I fail to see the logic behind having different minimum wages based on your job definition. Surely if a living wage is $15, it doesn't matter whether you're waiting tables, delivering pizzas, or shoveling ditches.
I like to follow the money. What interest group was behind this? I don't see restaurants benefitting, this just increases prices which is going to reduce volume. Maybe they resent the food delivery companies but I can't see being so resentful you'd cut off a big chunk of
need to cover congestion pricing, parking & to (Score:3)
need to cover congestion pricing, parking & tolls in NYC as well.
must be old (Score:1)
I must be old. To make $20/hour I had to have actual skills, take on responsibilities, and consistently deliver more than $20/hour in value.
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How far back along the graph [statista.com] do we have to go for that, gramps? In 1933, that'd have been equivalent to the purchasing power of $400/hr, before the last three years of inflation.
If Congress had continued to increase the minimum wage in line with productivity growth since [the 1968 historical high point of the minimum wage at $11.12 per hour in today's dollars], the min [epi.org]
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Only 1 of the jobs in your last link pays $20/hour or more. I'm all for paying people for their work, I understand history and I don't have the same buying power as my father. I suppose I do not value driving short distances and walking door to door. If you want to get paid a real wage do real work, don't expect a part time delivery job to pay the rent.
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But they all pay minimum wage, and since you ignored it, I shall repeat it: "If Congress had continued to increase the minimum wage in line with productivity growth since [the 1968 historical high point of the minimum wage at $11.12 per hour in today's dollars], the minimum wage today would be over $22 per hour."
Ah, yes, the unreasonable expectati [businessinsider.com]
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Sure, I'll go away, as soon as you are willing to call 'going away' my job and you pay me $20/hour to go away. And I'll expect to pay the rent with my "going away job". So be sure that I can afford the rent in the place I choose to live, doing the going away I'm willing to do.
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Nope. That's unskilled bullshit labor that you yourself claim can be paid at the lowest possible rate, so I'll be setting up a GoFundMe for you and paying you the tipped hourly rate until this post is archived.
I've got a kickass refrigerator box for you. It only costs 75% of your tipped hourly rate.
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Interesting how your way requires tips *and* GoFundMe.
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So do the lives of the unskilled workers that you're competing against.
BTW, you're already failing to satisfy the job requirements. I'm putting you on a performance improvement plan. You get one more warning.
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The thing is, you can't pay me $20/hour to go away because it doesn't make any sense. I don't go away for tips. I want what was offered in this thread, $20/hr and do that part time and then pay the rent where I want to live. Someone linked to an article to says we did it in the 50s. Is it the socialism approach or the MAGA approach that gets us back to the 50s? Because both sides seem to be claiming that goal now. That is a bullshit mirage, we need to move forward and not back.
Ever check the income tax stru
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Nobody offered you that. In fact, you dismissed the idea as being ludicrous.
And the 60s.
You finally get it. But only when it comes to d
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If you are old and you recall making $20 an hour, then you're not even remotely talking about the same financial value as we are now. If you're old enough to lament about a $20/hour job and complain about responsibilities, then you are taking about jobs that would command $35/h+ today.
When you're done shouting at clouds, jump on the Khan academy and read up on the basics of inflation and the change of monetary value over time.
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I made $20 / hr in college (early 90s), with no appreciable skills.
I was doing office temp work on the days I didn't have class. The only skill required was show up on short notice, look presentable, do basic office stuff -typing, sorting, filing, answer phones, sit at a desk...
politicians and economics.. god. (Score:1, Troll)
>heeeeey why is food suddenly so expensive?
of course some silly leftist/prog will chime in with
>but billionaires... something something class consciousness blah blah
it's all so tiresome. i'm sorry for the unpopular opinion, but food delivery/food service etc should not be part of the 'living wage' conversation. what's next, paperboys need to make 50k a year + benefits?
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In the capitalist conversation they are providing a service the economy demands and from that framework they are workers providing value (not saying this is right but that's how capitalism works).
Income inequality is actually part of the problem though since so much of the money supply is locked up in so few hands that contributes to costs rising so much faster than wages sometimes. Not it's not the whole story, probably not even a majority but to deny I don't think it can be denied that it doesn't contri
California could have been the first (Score:1)
AB5 would have really put pressure on these third-party meal services, yet they were able to persuade enough people through Prop 22 that abiding by the rules of other food establishments would cause people to miss their weekly burrito deliveries.
They'll try the same in New York. Be smarter, New York.
Failure to understand basic economics. (Score:2, Funny)
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You're going to be unpopular for explaining those facts.
Doordash et al (Score:2)
"Food delivery workers" sounds like "employees". And the gig-based services like Doordash and Uber Eats are not employers and they don't have employees. It's independent individual contractors who are subscribing to a dispatch service from a "technology company". So none of this applies to them. It's only for restaurants that directly employ their very own delivery drivers.
Is that right?
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It's actually specifically geared toward those apps. [nyc.gov] TFA just isn't a great synopsis.
The government will have a hard time (Constitutionally speaking) with a law that forbids individuals from privately contracting to provide services. And the government will also fail (as they have mostly failed thus far) to force those people to be employees.
For one thing the potential employees (the gig drivers) do NOT WANT to be employees, and are in large part the reason that government has failed in that area. Also the customers don't want it, because they want cheap slave labor underpinning their food
Double edged sword (Score:2)
My experience with minimum wage is that they pay you the minimum no matter what you do and the extra illegally in cash into your pocket.
I support (Score:2)
EVERYTHING that stimulates COMMON MAN towards to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]
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i wish to subscribe to your newsletter