Fed Launches Long-Awaited Instant Payments Service, Modernizing System (reuters.com) 104
The U.S. Federal Reserve has launched a long-awaited service which will aim to modernize the country's payment system by eventually allowing everyday Americans to send and receive funds in seconds, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, the central bank announced on Thursday. From a report: The "FedNow" service, which has been in the works since 2019, will seek to eliminate the several-day lag it commonly takes cash transfers to settle, bringing the U.S. in line with countries including the United Kingdom, India, Brazil, as well as the European Union, where similar services have existed for years. FedNow is launching with 41 banks and 15 service providers certified to use the service, including community banks and large lenders like JPMorgan Chase, Bank of New York Mellon, and US Bancorp, but the Fed plans to onboard more banks and credit unions this year.
The Fed said on Thursday in a statement that 35 banks and credit unions were currently utilizing the service, as well as the Treasury Department's Bureau of Fiscal Service. The service will compete with private sector real-time payments systems, including The Clearing House's RTP network, and was initially opposed by big banks who said it was redundant. But many have since agreed to participate on the basis FedNow will allow them to expand the services they can offer clients. "For us, FedNow really is a wonderful way of expanding reach," said Anu Somani, head of global payables and embedded payments at U.S. Bank. Unlike peer-to-peer payments services like Venmo or PayPal, which act as intermediaries between banks, payments made via FedNow will settle directly in central bank accounts.
The Fed said on Thursday in a statement that 35 banks and credit unions were currently utilizing the service, as well as the Treasury Department's Bureau of Fiscal Service. The service will compete with private sector real-time payments systems, including The Clearing House's RTP network, and was initially opposed by big banks who said it was redundant. But many have since agreed to participate on the basis FedNow will allow them to expand the services they can offer clients. "For us, FedNow really is a wonderful way of expanding reach," said Anu Somani, head of global payables and embedded payments at U.S. Bank. Unlike peer-to-peer payments services like Venmo or PayPal, which act as intermediaries between banks, payments made via FedNow will settle directly in central bank accounts.
Finally catching up (Score:5, Insightful)
When this works, US will be finally catching up with the rest of the world (including pretty much every "third world" country we normally scoff at).
Now, if US banks also joined the IBAN schema, we might be able to move into the 21st century only 20-something years late.
Re:Finally catching up (Score:4, Insightful)
Banks have been running services like that for decades.
Re:Finally catching up (Score:5, Insightful)
Didn't we see how nice that went in Canada a couple years ago when the govt didn't agree with a protest group?
It doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum you are....it should be a bit scary to move more power to the Feds with regard to your money and movement of such.
The real scary one, is when the Feds put out the digital dollar.
I hope "we the people" can fight against that enough....bad idea that one.
Re:Finally catching up (Score:5, Insightful)
And if a private company handled this they could go bankrupt or close up overnight, what’s your point? Law enforcement can easily freeze your bank account.
Let me explain how the “protest group” in Canada went down.
1) Group announces they intend to occupy a city for a protest and shut it down
2) People send money to this group
3) Group does exactly what it says which amounts to committing crimes
4) Government investigates this group and finds out people funded a crime
5) Government freezes accounts because they funded crime
My shocked face.
Re:Finally catching up (Score:5, Insightful)
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As the old saying goes...
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety
But hey, live like you want to live...it's a free country...err....wait....strike that.
Re:Finally catching up (Score:5, Insightful)
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No emergency responders where blocked.
Not a single one.
The trucks where all parked on one side of the main street in front of Parliament.
There was an emergency lane left open, by the organisers, working with the local Ottawa police.
No crimes where committed.
Honking was stopped after hours, as requested, by local law enforcement after the first few initial days.
Reading headlines, does not make you an expert on what happened there.
I went on site twice during the protest to see for myself what was going on.
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Never happened.
(See last section of the article).
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/you-... [ctvnews.ca]
And the rock throwing mentioned in the article is hearsay and baseless.
As I said, I was there. It was truckers, but also mothers, fathers, preachers, people from all communities, from First Nations to Sheikh's, kids, etc...
They fed the homeless, cleaned the streets, maintained the monuments, etc...
Whatever you heard in the news was made up bullshit.
They did park on the streets and "occupy" the area surrounding Parliement in pr
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Look, I know you have a cognitive bias and do not like people protesting because they believe, rightly, in the freedom to make medical choices for themselves without having their governement remove, illegaly, wholesale their freedom to travel and function in society.
However, you keep grasping at straws here.
If you cannot protest at the SEAT of the Federal governement, you cant protest AT ALL.
No ones life was EVER at risk.
I said early there was an emergency lane open on the main throroughfares for emergency
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I addressed this in the other post.
Stop trying to justify your media fueled hate for people that simply want to have their rights protected.
People dont just up and drive halfway accross the LARGEST country in the world to protest for no good reason at all.
Its sad that you would try and discredit them.
No one was hurt, at risk or prevented going anywhere. Emergency lanes where open for ambulances and others vehicles.
You are objectively wrong on all counts.
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If you cannot protest at the SEAT of the Federal governement, you cant protest AT ALL.
There are plenty of sidewalks and courtyards there. So, no, blocking public roads was not necessary to be 'at the seat of the Federal government'. They chose to block roads because they knew the impact they felt endangering people would get more attention.
Also, no one was forced to get the vaccine. They just couldn't go accross the border without it, that's all. And as I mentioned before the US had the same rule in place anyway at the time.
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Mentally weak? That is your take?
Yet you are the one who believe lies to this day, like someone died because an ambulance was blocked.
Something I debunked with sources. Something that the police chief debunked the following day this lie was published, yet 1.5 years later YOU still believe.
I was there on the spot. The lane was clear on main roads.
Asking for a study because you were shown to be wrong, is hillarious.
Pictures:
https://cloudfront-us-east-1.i... [arcpublishing.com]
https://www.nationalobserver.c... [nationalobserver.com]
https://smartcdn.gpr [gprod.postmedia.digital]
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Fine, maybe the ambulance story was wrong but it doesn't really matter anyway. What matters is that people without authority aren't making decisions for the safety of others.
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IS this fake too?
Also there are videos on tik tok of the ambulance being delayed.
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The convoy leaders had open communications with local Ottawa police and followed all requests that had to do with safety, which is why there were open lanes for emergency vehicles.
I'm not sure what you are looking for. There was police presence throughout, and cooperation with all sides.
I spoke with police on the street, they had nothing but good things to say about the cooperation and how things where proceeding.
It was disruptive to day to day life, yes, but thats the nature of a protest and here was the l
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It was disruptive to day to day life, yes,
Thank you. Right there that proves that you don't give a darn about "freedom" because you admit the protest infringed on the freedom of others to conduct their lives. You think you should be free to protest but the people who you infringe on? You don't care about their freedom so much. There was a blind person who lived there who couldn't even leave their home because the streets became too dangerous to navigate for them.
Normally when a person closes down a road for a block party or something, they fi
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This has got to be the most clownish response I have every heard.
I see what you want:
***Here is a BOX, fenced off, in a far away field, in the middle of nowehere. Your permit is granted to protest where NO ONE will hear you, your government representatives are free to ignore you and none of the NPC citizens will hear your message.***
I and most people, dont want to live in your world where the many may crush the rights of the individual.
There is a reason there is a charter that protects the rights of individ
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You just don't get it. A few people with an opinion don't override the rights of everyone to express that opinion. Please think about that for awhile. You keep defending people who did everything you claim to be against. Yes, protesting is hard work. If you really believe in what you are protesting you do the hard work. You walk with signs, you chant. You don't just pa
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Thats cute. You are really trying hard to win this argument.
Some people where very slightly bothered. People who chose to live 10 feet away from the seat of the Federal government.
I'm impressed with the pretzel you have twisted yourself into here.
Keep going.
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Like the BLM rioters/protesters that tore up cities and spread across and blocked interstates and local streets?
Re:Finally catching up (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah that draconian country of Canada with their longer average lifespan, lower crimes, better infant mortality rate, better literacy rate, better retirement age, etc etc. What an awful place to live. Hey but at least we have guns and "freedom" in the USA.
Re:Finally catching up (Score:5, Informative)
And how much of that is true? The US has 377 violent crimes per 100k population. Canada has over 500 per 100k. Did you just look at the total numbers? The US has nearly 5x more people living in it.
And I only considered violent crimes because you can be jailed and fined in Canada for using the wrong pronoun. But hey, at least the average life expectancy in Canada is 3 years longer.. at the very end of the spectrum. That's a few years longer to stay at home, obey what you're told, and watch what you say.
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The US uses a narrower definition for "violent crimes" than most countries, so the numbers are not directly comparable. Canada classifies a lot of incidents as "violent crimes" when the US would not.
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The US uses a narrower definition for "violent crimes" than most countries, so the numbers are not directly comparable. Canada classifies a lot of incidents as "violent crimes" when the US would not.
This.
It's the same in most western countries because the judges can hand out higher sentences for violent crimes.
In the US, I'm 6.5 times more likely to be murdered than in England and Wales AFTER adjusting for population. I'm also about the 5 times more likely to die in a motor vehicle accident. Pretty sure the stats on aggravated assault, grievous bodily harm and violent burglary would be the same or worse. Statista and other such sites are not a good like for like as they just take the official sta
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Another old saying goes "Necessitous men are not free men."
Re:Finally catching up (Score:4, Insightful)
How I spend my money IS expression and government in the US isn't allowed to censor me.
While the US (government) isn't allowed to censor your speech, if your speech is illegal and breaks the law, you are on the hook for whatever penalties exist for breaking the law. If your speech harms others, those others may be entitled to seek compensation from you for the harm. With freedom comes responsibility and accountability. The classic example is yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater. You are free to make such a statement, but if that statement is false, and people are injured during a panic while people are trying to escape, you can be held liable for the injuries.
Re: Finally catching up (Score:2)
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I'd like to see you argue that in court.
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How I spend my money IS expression and government in the US isn't allowed to censor me.
My freedom of speech = freedom to spend how I want to spend my savings.
Try sending money to a terrorist group, like ISIS, and see how that goes for you.
None of your/our freedoms are unlimited.
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Freedom of speech = Being able to spend how you want, but not free from the consequences of doing so... aka Bank account frozen.
Say what you want, but depending on WHAT you say there can and will be consequences. Never forget that. The Constitution of the US does not protect you after the fact, only before.
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I think corruption in the US ha
Re: Finally catching up (Score:2)
But youâ(TM)re not allowed to spend your money to fund a crime.
Re:Finally catching up (Score:5, Insightful)
So...you would then have supported this same type of effort, freezing assets and contributions during the "summer of love" with the BLM "protests" all over the US then, right?
So, ANY protest or action the govt administration (at the time) dislikes, can readily just freeze all assets and donations and you're cool with that....?
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So...you would then have supported this same type of effort, freezing assets and contributions during the "summer of love" with the BLM "protests" all over the US then, right?
So, ANY protest or action the govt administration (at the time) dislikes, can readily just freeze all assets and donations and you're cool with that....?
Whataboutism. the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.
Was the BLM organization charged with any crimes?
Re:Finally catching up (Score:4, Informative)
Since there isn't a BLM organization, no.
I believe I remember that many individuals were charged with crimes.
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Whaaat? Where have you been? They not only are an official organization, but they've been spending up all the money donated to them. [nypost.com]
The organization's operations are quite troublesome...go do some research.
Well, a lot of them were bailed out [reuters.com] by funds contributed to and promoted by Dem. politicians.
Interesting article here too. [yahoo.com]
And, in New York... [the-sun.com]
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My aging brain confused "BLM" with "Antifa". As I recall there is no official "Antifa" organization. My apologies.
I am not clicking any of your links, sorry you wasted your time.
Re:Finally catching up (Score:4, Funny)
Uh, the Bureau of Land Management definitely is an organization ;)
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Re:Finally catching up (Score:5, Informative)
So, ANY protest or action the govt administration (at the time) dislikes, can readily just freeze all assets and donations and you're cool with that....?
Whataboutism. the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.
Was the BLM organization charged with any crimes?
It's not a whataboutism though. A whataboutism would have been if cayenne8 said "you think the Canadian protesters were wrong? Well, what about police brutality in America?!". THAT is a whataboutism.
The Canadian government froze the bank accounts of people who *donated* to criminals, not just people who committed crimes. The donors may-or-may-not have been aware that their donations were being used to commit crimes. There *might* be *some* justification for doing so if there was obvious proof, e.g. a Venmo transfer where the message said "Leave no building standing without damage!", clearly indicating an express intent to fund criminal activity. As far as I'm aware, this wasn't the case, it was a follow-the-money situation where traceable money transfers were used to freeze assets due to their destination. I'm sure Canada has some different laws on these matters, but freezing assets without some sort of due process is at least a moral question worthy of asking.
Cayenne8 then essentially asked, "oh, so donations to people who protest are a problem that justify donors having their accounts frozen, without due process, because you don't agree with the nature the protest? Well okay...let me then ask if its okay for donors' accounts to be frozen in the same way, with the sole changed variable being the recipient, namely a recipient you likely agree with."
A request for consistency is not a whataboutism, it's a verification of whether you're truly okay with a system (in which case the merits of the system itself can be debated), or if the problem is really with the people on the working end of that system (in which case it becomes clear that the system is okay only as long as it's used against the correct set of people).
Re: Finally catching up (Score:1)
That's not what happened.
During the protest, truck drivers participating in the so-called âoeFreedom Convoyâ had their bank accounts frozen without a court order. Also, per the governmentâ(TM)s emergency order, protestors had their bank information given to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Canadian Security Intelligence Service and the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre.
Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts
https://www.bbc.com/news/world... [bbc.com]
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Yeah you fund domestic terrorists and the government might come knocking.
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So, peaceful protesters (literally so in this case) are now "domestic terrorists"??
These folks parked their trucks on one road, no violence, no riots, etc....
Wow...I know the left likes to co-opt language and redefine words and terms, but this really takes the cake.
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Re: Finally catching up (Score:3)
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> easily cut off your ability to send and receive cash, no?
Theoretically, they could stop someone from using their service to do so; but why would they?
> Didn't we see how nice that went in Canada a couple years ago
> when the govt didn't agree with a protest group?
The Federal Reserve is pretty independent of the other government branches, though. Their most important concern is maintaining a stable currency (which they are generall
Re: Finally catching up (Score:2)
If the feds want your ability to make cash transfers shut down they will simply inform your bank. They don't need to operate the payment system. If you make any significant or suspicious-seeming transfers those are also already going to be reported to them by law. This will change literally nothing in the regard you are fake concerned about.
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England (Score:2, Interesting)
There was an episode of the Planet Money podcast about this about ten years ago. They talked about how England modernized their banking system just a few years previous. It involved software updates and upgrades to every bank's computer systems, of which there were over 400, as well as significant upgrades to the central banking clearinghouse system. It took a decade of planning and a decade of implementation.
The US has nearly 5,000 banks. There are multiple clearinghouses spread out through the country, as
Re:England (Score:5, Informative)
You'd have a point, if the summary didn't say the project didn't start until 2019.
Re:England (Score:5, Insightful)
Your post is nothing but an excuse. US banks drag their feet on stuff like this because it requires them to spend money. What does the number of banks even have to do with it? They manage their own infrastructure. It isn't like one person has to visit the bank and do upgrades one at a time.
Re:Finally catching up (Score:4, Funny)
Some day we might even get healthcare!
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To our foreign friends who don't understand: We can't have nice things here because we have a high percentage of stupid and lazy people here, likely higher than in other countries. Further, we import roughly 10 milli
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::Sigh:: Nobody wants "free healthcare", and I don't necessarily want anyone else to pay for my healthcare. I'm perfectly willing to pull my weight, and help those that can't.
What I DO want is the $36,000 that me and my employer spend on healthcare premiums annually, plus whatever I spend out of pocket on top of that, to be spent in a more sane manner. Not pissing $70 billion dollars into the wind annually on health insurance company PROFIT would be a great place to start. Canada spends $8,500 per capita
And sitting is the new smoking (Score:2)
They're terrified that in the process of helping a bunch of people in need we may accidentally help someone who doesn't necessarily need it.
That's not true; if our "lifeboat sinks", then what... Have the desperate poured into your area yet? They have here: I didn't think much of it
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Well I apologize, I can't find the numbers that I read before; perhaps I had misunderstood them.
Thank you, not too often people are willing to admit they made a mistake on here. Most people will just dig in and double down. And yeah, numbers are tough to come by, much less accurate ones.
Have the desperate poured into your area yet? They have here.
I'm in the Minneapolis area, not a huge population, but certainly not small. I can't say "poured in", but we definitely have a very large immigrant population, more so refugees from the Africa and the East than asylum seekers from South. I can't speak to how many here are illegal or not, and we really don't hear abou
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Here, the change was mostly Hispanics. (My best friends are/have been Hispanic, by the way.) They all but completely displaced the black population within the last 20 years
Re: Finally catching up (Score:2)
Yes, we want national, single payer health care. The total cost of health care in this country would plummet if we had it. First it would fall by 20% IMMEDIATELY as the guaranteed 20% profit guaranteed by the ACA ended. Then it would drop an even larger amount as collective bargaining over pharmaceutical prices drove down the cost of medication. Then it would drop still further as transparency and competition between providers took effect. Because insurance companies' profits are based on a percentage of to
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> we have a high percentage of stupid and lazy people
> here, likely higher than in other countries
You do know that France just recently wrapped up a weeks-long spree of rioting, protests, and strikes; which were precipitated by the raising of the retirement age from 62 to 64, right? (In the US it's 65 and there are proposals to raise it from there being bandied about.) That's hardly the behavior of workaholics.
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Actually... where I wrote "weeks", substitute "months". Time flies, I guess, and I hadn't realized just how long all that was really going on until I just googled. Oops.
Re: Finally catching up (Score:2)
In the US, the minimum SS retirement age is 62. Full retirement is 67. 65 is for Medicare.
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I'd been using tap to pay in most places (yes, in the US, specifically California) years before COVID.
Re: Finally catching up (Score:2)
Interac is far inferior to India's UPI.
I am Canadian, and spent time in India last year. You can pay anyone, any business instantly with no service fee using nothing more than a QR code or other identifier.
Go to a convenience store, or restaurant, scan the QR code, enter the amount you are paying, the store immediately gets confirmation.
Interact is better than what the USA has, but is still a horribly fragmented experience with High transaction costs, and incredible delays with notifications being sent by s
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When this works, US will be finally catching up with the rest of the world (including pretty much every "third world" country we normally scoff at).
Now, if US banks also joined the IBAN schema, we might be able to move into the 21st century only 20-something years late.
TBF, SWIFT/IBAN is something that most people rarely use for currency transfers as the bank fees around it are stupendous. We generally use P2P or other 3rd party currency exchange as it gets you a far better rate than your bank would ever give you as a member of the hoi polloi.
Most of these are regulated by the various conduct authorities in each country. Most don't transfer to the US because your banking system is antediluvian (I.E. these systems work by having accounts in both the source and destinati
from TFA (Score:3)
Unlike peer-to-peer payments services like Venmo or PayPal, which act as intermediaries between banks, payments made via FedNow will settle directly in central bank accounts.
Venmo is owned by PayPal and has been for a long time.
FedNow will not charge consumers, although it's unclear whether or how participating banks will pass on any costs associated with the service.
This is what it's really about. Yea, "costs" on the service the Fed intends to provide "free" (i.e. with your tax money).
Banks are tapeworms, they wouldn't have agreed if there wasn't any free money for them.
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The federal reserve is not part of the government and is not funded by tax dollars. It makes money from interest on securities it owns and charging other banks. [bankrate.com]
Uh... Zelle? (Score:1)
How is this different or better than what Zelle has been doing for a while?
I send a few grand to my wife to pay the bills via Zelle. A few second later she has it. No transfer fee even though we're at different banks.
AFAICT, Zelle is instant and the money is available to her.
I've used Venmo and PayPal a few times in total so very limited experience with those services but they seemed to operate the same way.
What am I missing? Other than the Feds having instant access to all our supposed-to-be-private tra
Re:Uh... Zelle? (Score:5, Informative)
Zelle moves money between US bank accounts digitally, by agreement of the banks on the network. You can send money to someone you know quickly.
In reality, the banks don't transfer the money immediately. You get credited and the sender debited, but the actual "settling up" between all the banks happens later, in bulk. This is referred to as "settlement". Think of the big banks getting together in a room at the end of the day and going "Bank A accounts sent $200M to Bank B accounts, but Bank B accounts sent $190M to Bank A accounts, so all we really need to do is move $10M from Bank A to Bank B to settle." Now think of this with all banks in the US.
That settlement is currently handled (mostly) by the ACH system. The same system you can use to "wire" money to someone. The ACH system is a private network run by The Clearing House. FedNow is a gov't run competitor to that network. They're making a settlement network and allowing it to be expanded to individuals.
The service will compete with private sector real-time payments systems, including The Clearing House's RTP network...
Unlike peer-to-peer payments services like Venmo or PayPal, which act as intermediaries between banks, payments made via FedNow will settle directly in central bank accounts.
As almost every bank in the US is a member of the Federal Reserve, this means they will be able to offer Zelle and ACH-like services without a middleman.
Re:Uh... Zelle? (Score:4, Insightful)
It also could provide a way for a better user experience on sending people money, potentially fewer fees, and improved fraud/mistake protection (Zelle is by far the worst for this compared to other 3rd party solutions), which are all things UPI provides in India.
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Zelle is awful. Terrible UI. No safety against fraud.
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Zelle is awful. Terrible UI. No safety against fraud.
What are you talking about? Zelle doesn't have its own UI - it's handled by your bank. Any "terrible UI" is the fault of your bank.
And "no safety against fraud" in that, if you freely give a fraudster cash, you've lost it. Which is really how it has to work. Venmo, on the other hand, has repeatedly shown it can be abused by people giving you money for an item and then pulling that money back after they've walked away.
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Zelle doesn't have its own UI - it's handled by your bank.
He's probably talking about Zelle's UI. It's an app similar to Venmo or PayPal. Available for Android and iOS. I know search must be hard for you so here's the website https://www.zellepay.com/ [zellepay.com]
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A better method to add/confirm recipients is very welcome. QR codes only work when you can see them, and vendors frequently can't be assed to request the cash from you
Trustworthy? (Score:1)
Given the Fed’s track record with cybersecurity, we can expect our first breach soon.
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"Everyday Americans" (Score:4, Funny)
Doubt some will like that (Score:3, Insightful)
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Banks and credit unions participating in the pilot (Score:4, Informative)
https://www.frbservices.org/fi... [frbservices.org]