FCC Proposes Ban On Cable and Satellite Early Termination Fees (deadline.com) 47
FCC Chairwoman Jessica Rosenworcel today outlined a new proposal that would ban cable and satellite companies from charging subscribers early termination fees. Deadline reports: Some subscribers who sign contracts with cable and satellite operators face paying early termination fees if they want out of the agreement before the expiration date. The companies put such fees in place to reduce churn. The FCC proposal also would target requirements that subscribers pay for the entire billing cycle when they end their service before that date. The proposal would require that the video providers grant a pro-rated credit for the remaining days in a billing cycle. The proposal applies only to cable and satellite providers, not streaming services. The FCC will vote at its Dec. 13 meeting whether to issue a notice of proposed rulemaking for public comment. Rosenworcel said in a statement: "No one wants to pay junk fees for something they don't want or can't use. When companies charge customers early termination fees, it limits their freedom to choose the service they want. In an increasingly competitive media market, we should make it easier for Americans to use their purchasing power to promote innovation and expand competition within the industry."
FCC's New Freedom Fiesta (Score:2)
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Have you ever been a Field Tech? The dispatch window is perfectly reasonable. It's fun to beat up the cable company for but if they gave precise times they'd be lying to you. Unless you're the first dispatch of the day it is impossible to provide a precise time because it is impossible to know exactly how long the preceding job(s) will take. In my WISP days, we could have an easy job that might take 15 minutes. Or we might walk into a total shitshow that took the whole business day. We never knew until
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Have you ever been a Field Tech? The dispatch window is perfectly reasonable.
Exactly. I'm not a field tech, but I am scheduling them. I can't even count how many times I've had to "fight" people over the fact that I can't be more precise for the same reasons you provide.
The ETF, by contrast, is just a money grab. At most they're out the install investment, the time of the truck roll/tech visit, but those are rarely these days included anyway. You paid a fee for the install. So they're out nothing if you cancel. Fuck 'em.
I'm on the fence here. I know there is overly predatory use of ETF, and I don't condone that. As long as they're offering an option without a contract, and the ETF is reasonable for the discount provided, I feel it's mostly on the consumer. It's no different from any other service offering a discounted annual plan.
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They rarely offer the option without contract. In my experience, cable either mandates the contract, or they don't. When they don't it's usually because there's decent (i.e., FTTH) competition and they're hemorrhaging customers. I saw in one metro I lived in, Cox would actually tailor offers to the individual address, literally, you might get a totally different offer than the neighbors across the street:
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Have you ever been a Field Tech?
Field tech is a thankless job. Neighbor used the rototiller in their backyard garden and severed the now ended practice of burying random cable lines an inch below the surface run through multiple other peoples yards. Cue 5 years of continually calling out techs to replace it where it was strung over trees for months, sagged over the road where a truck caught and tore it out, finally run under the road from the nearest service box using high pressure water to bore out a space for the conduit to run the ca
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What are you even trying to convey here? What does a cable installer have to do with billing?
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Re: FCC's New Freedom Fiesta (Score:3)
The end of "Early Termination Fees" will mark the end of time-limited discount pricing.
ETFs offset the losses from new customer discounts, why will a provider offer discounts to a customer that can break a contract before it has run its course?
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The end of "Early Termination Fees" will mark the end of time-limited discount pricing.
ETFs offset the losses from new customer discounts, why will a provider offer discounts to a customer that can break a contract before it has run its course?
Introductory terms are typically part of marketing campaigns to attract new subs. Contracts have the opposite effect. Not unusual to see "No contract" as a selling point included with marketing materials.
While it is true that discounts are offered to incentivize contracts they come from different places for different reasons that don't necessarily overlap. Contracts are pushed by bean counters while discounting is pushed by marketing.
Good news and bad news (Score:2)
The good news is you'll be able to leave your cable company without paying an early termination fee.
The bad news is there is no competing cable company to switch to anyway. [giphy.com]
On a (slightly) more serious note, my local cable provider, Spectrum, doesn't charge termination fees. Probably because, as you could've easily guessed, AT&T pretty much gave up with competing with them. In my neighborhood, AT&T won't even accept new customers.
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On a (slightly) more serious note, my local cable provider, Spectrum, doesn't charge termination fees. Probably because, as you could've easily guessed, AT&T pretty much gave up with competing with them. In my neighborhood, AT&T won't even accept new customers.
No great loss. When ATT came through here begging me to be a customer, they had nice expensive caps unless you wanted to add TV service with that. Now I have three options. Spectrum, ATT and a new fiber company.
Surprise. Surprise. ATT dropped caps because neither of the others had any. Fuck 'em anyway.
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If we're honest, early termination fees are absolute horseshit. It's basically the cable company wanting to stick their hand in your pocket because you're moving and have no choice.
Fuck them.
And, I hope this becomes enacted regulation. When the fiber that was just installed at the top of my street gets lit up, Comcast is fucking fired.
Re: Good news and bad news (Score:2)
Will the FCC now go after ETF on cellular contracts too? If not, why not?
Why? (Score:3)
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Contracts of adhesion need regulation to prevent this kind of behavior. It's unconscionable that cable and satellite companies still use deceptive loss leaders to lure in naïve customers only
Re: Why? (Score:2)
Did the provider's charges change/increase, or was it the taxes imposed by your state/local government?
Or did you just see the amount due increased and decide to blame the provider?
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Did the provider's charges change/increase, or was it the taxes imposed by your state/local government?
Or did you just see the amount due increased and decide to blame the provider?
One tactic I've seen Comcast employ is if you are on contract they will change the deal and give you 30 days to cancel without incurring ETF otherwise your silence is acceptance of the new deal.
"If any such change is material and negatively affects your Services, you have the right to cancel your Services; but you accept any such change if you continue to use or receive the Services for more than thirty (30) days after the change."
It is not unusual for certain fees providers tag on to be excluded from contr
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Back when we paid for cell service by the minute and by the text message, my wireless service once rai
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The whole thing about the early termination fee is because a contract is being broken. I know, contracts mean nothing these days because... who reads those things anyways?
The company is giving a discount if ones agrees to stay with the company for a specified term. The company knows they have the customer for that period of time, so they cut a deal. One could opt into the month-to-month contract, but it costs more. All this rule will do is remove the discount for long-term commitments, which means we will all pay for the month-to-month pricing.
I remember dealing with ETFs and Comcast several years ago. Even while on contract prices still went up due to extra fees magically excluded from contract. The terms were an egregious 75% ETF (hidden in fine print of course) translating to several thousands of dollars in liability. Comcast goons even try to push three year renewals for service changes on the DL. You get a docusign and they are like it's just what the computer wanted to complete the change. I bet they practice that one a lot.
My own pos
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I think this is the response to the companies balking at having to list all the fees they charge. [slashdot.org]
Remember, the cable companies said there was no possible way they could list every fee they charge? [slashdot.org]
The FCC is saying "Too Bad" [slashdot.org]. But hey, government can help!
I think the response is "OK, if you have too many fees to list, how about we just eliminate categories of fees for you - this should reduce the number of fees you charge and finally you can give us that list of fees, right?"
So let's get rid of early terminat
If you need early termination fees (Score:2)
If you need early termination fees to stop people from leaving, you know you're overcharging / underdelivering.
The mere fact that you have those fees should in and of itself be considered an indictment of your business and a confession that you know it's deserved.
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Part of it is "free equipment" that is paid for over the term of a contract.
It's easy math to increase the monthly price by the average longevity-asjusted cost.
Which means people who stay as customers will get the worst deals.
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Agreed.
In fact, to be fair to the providers... the equipment contract should be separate from the service contract with early termination fees, so long as the equipment fee is within a few percentage points of say, walking to your nearby electronics store and buying similar stuff off the shelf.
Re: If you need early termination fees (Score:2)
The thing is that all these regulations will do is increase the cost to the consumer as now the company will have to recapture their cost over a shorter time period. And end users owning equipment is a nightmare just as well, so youâ(TM)ll have people like you bitching that they upgrade to DOCSIS3 and you need to buy a new $200 router somewhere and how itâ(TM)s a scam and collusion to keep upgrading.
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Well, I guess you better just give up, bend over, and give the companies all your money. Nothing we can do.
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Or we can let the market operate the way its intended. If you don't like your satellite provider, switch to another one, it's not like satellite operators are geographically bound. The problem is that the market is tiny and the costs are astronomically high (pun intended).
You have the option now to rent from your provider either in the fee or as a separate fee, and you have the option of buying out their or bring your own equipment, provided you want the hassle and cost of upgrading/repairing. I personally
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You can buy an Arris DOCSIS 3.1 for $140 today with a two year warranty. You are ahead even if you have have absolute shit luck and have to buy a new one in tw
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I'm also getting the Arris DOCSIS systems from the provider, exact same thing, you get the same shit modems as you can buy online retail, a simple power outage can cause them to go haywire though, they simply are built to be replaced at the first sign of trouble.
I am a bit of a heavier user though so YMMV, but if you're loading these things up, they will end up burning out at some point, CPU overheats, there is no fan in the package, power supply is sized right at the limit, they are just poorly built.
The '
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Which means people who stay as customers will get the worst deals.
A lot of industries have chosen this model. It is no longer beneficial to be a "valued" long term customer for any recurring expense. I have to play their game.
Loyalty is punished and I have become a mercenary. Don't offer new customers a better deal than you are willing to offer me. I *WILL* become some other company's new customer. If I am forwarded to a retention specialist, the game is already over. You can try again to offer me better a better experience as your customer the next time I pick y
Re:If you need early termination fees (Score:4, Insightful)
Well how about this then? Give me a proper bill with proper line items charges on it, so I can figure out if I want your bargain-basement off-brand piece of shit modem that cakes it's pants once a week and requires a reboot to function, or if I want to go buy my own and get your bullshit equipment rental off my bill.
Oh wait, that's too hard for them [arstechnica.com] according to them.
You don't get to charge me for shit without telling me about it, and you sure as shit don't get to amortize those charges over the entire service lifetime; or instead hit me with some early termination nonsense because I am moving and you don't offer service where I'm going, even if I give your shitty equipment back. That's just gouging people in the old "ma bell" pattern of requiring a rented telephone instead of purchasing your own. No, it's not required, but really how many "regular" people know that they can even BYO their cable modem and not pay the equipment fee if their ISP charges one? My guess is that isn't really a big bold face item on the new connection checklist.
It's nice to see the FCC actually stick up for the end user every once in a while, rather than just bending over for the corporate overlords to enjoy another good buggering time and again.
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Not necessarily. In some cases contractual terms come at a discount with the assumption that the full contract time will be lived out. I.e. You're getting a benefit for the agreement that you will live out the duration of a contract.
Companies who don't offer short term contracts absolutely should be barred from charging termination fees, but companies which give the user the choice of e.g. a 1 month contract or a 1 year contract should be able to charge a termination fee if a user agrees to a lower fee whil
Churn (Score:2)
The reason these fees exist are all because all providers hate "churn"... customers constantly switching from one to another. They have to distribute expensive decoders at below cost, so they don't want you to leave until that receiver is paid off by you paying them. That's why they look for 1-3 year agreements.
Face it, if you don't like the fees and regulate them out, your monthly bill will go up.
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Face it, if you don't like the fees and regulate them out, your monthly bill will go up.
It's the cable company. They're always going to charge what the market will bear whether they're allowed to charge termination fees or not, because in most markets they don't have competition.
Then don't give free modems/decoders (Score:2)
Same as with smartphones, nothing in life comes free.
That would also reduce the amount of e-waste as well as my option to use something better.
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They get the equipment back if you leave early. There is literally no cost to them.
What utter bullshit.
Re: Churn (Score:2)
The cost invested in a new customer exceeds tgat of the set-top box, and once a box is returned, what happens to it? Oh yeah, it gets refurbished so the next subscriber gets 'new' equipment, not the scuffed-up box you sent back when you found a cheaper provider...
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I agree for cable but I have never seen a satelite company come and remove the dish.
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Next (Score:2)
Do cell phone companies and any other company that makes customers sign a service contract.
Can we do the connection fee, too? (Score:2)
How about we also get rid of the new connection fees? I don't mean a fee if you actually need someone to come out and install a wire or equipment. I mean the fee for adding your account to the database and clicking "enable".
I think this is worse for wireless than cable, but it's still a "junk fee."
Does the FCC have authority to forbid these fees? (Score:2)
IANAL, but my guess is if this even gets past the comment period and is voted into existence, it will get immediately challenged in court. The FCC has oversight over tariffs, but only to the extent that the fees are "just and reasonable and not unfairly discriminatory". No one is going to agree that a discount given in return for agreeing to a longer contract period is unreasonable or discriminatory. There are entire industries built upon that very arrangement.
The price of economic freedom is eternal vigila
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Forgot to link to the FCC's page on tariffs: https://www.fcc.gov/general/ta... [fcc.gov]
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To be fair, most of these ISPs were given a monopoly by the city. Without competition, they are free to abuse you however they want. It's really only recently that wireless Internet has created some real competition and things are getting better in certain areas.
So while I agree with your idea in general, we don't, nor have we ever, had a "free" market. It's always been regulated and those regulations keep other players out. Since it isn't a free market, that means government is going to be tampering with i