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United States Government

California Bill Would Ban All Plastic Shopping Bags At Grocery Stores (sfstandard.com) 276

An anonymous reader quotes a report from the San Francisco Standard: California would ban all plastic shopping bags in 2026 under a new bill announced Thursday in the state Legislature. California already bans thin plastic shopping bags at grocery stores and other shops, but shoppers at checkout can purchase bags made with a thicker plastic that purportedly makes them reusable and recyclable. Democratic state Sen. Catherine Blakespear said people are not reusing or recycling those bags. She points to a state study that found the amount of plastic shopping bags trashed per person grew from 8 pounds per year in 2004 to 11 pounds per year in 2021. "It shows that the plastic bag ban that we passed in this state in 2014 did not reduce the overall use of plastic. It actually resulted in a substantial increase in plastic," Blakespear, a Democrat from Encinitas, said Thursday. "We are literally choking our planet with plastic waste."

While California's bag ban would apply statewide, it would only end up impacting about half the state's population, according to Mark Murray, lead advocate for the environmental advocacy group Californians Against Waste. That's because most of the state's major cities already ban these types of thicker plastic bags. But a state law passed in 2014 and approved by voters in a 2016 referendum bans cities from passing new laws restricting plastic bag use. If the Legislature passes this bill, it would be up to Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom to decide whether to sign it into law. As San Francisco's mayor in 2007, Newsom signed the nation's first plastic bag ban.

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California Bill Would Ban All Plastic Shopping Bags At Grocery Stores

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  • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @08:10AM (#64229596) Journal

    I'm sure we'll here about the death of civilization in the comments.

    In practice the UK merely introduced a small per bag charge and the number of plastic bags plummeted.

    After a while it becomes an unthinking habit to bring bags on a shopping trip.

    You can live day to day without supermarket carrier bags, it turns out.

    • by korgitser ( 1809018 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @08:34AM (#64229660)

      Where I come from, any shopping bag is a small charge, and the paper bag with eco-credentials costs more than plastic.

      The charge hasn't stopped much anyone from getting them, though. For a while I was going for the paper option, until a friend pointed out that plastic shopping bags can later be used as trash bags, which I otherwise have to buy separately, and I'm just pointlessly adding the ecological footprint of the paper bags on top of that.

      In any case the shopping bag wars can only be considered greenwashing, in light of every shopping bag containing a pound of plastic in food packaging... How about we go and do something about that?

      • by JoeRobe ( 207552 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @08:58AM (#64229706) Homepage

        Agreed! Where I live (northeast U.S.) there's a store that has a brand called "Nature's Promise", which is higher-end produce, usually organically grown. Their fruit (grapes, berries) is very good but sold in stiff plastic containers that are heavy and annoying to store in the fridge. Kind of an odd juxtaposition of appearing "natural" (organic) but not environmentally conscious.

      • by Megane ( 129182 )

        I'm impressed if your bags are good enough to use as trash bags. Here in Texas, the current fashion is to use relatively small bags made out of the thinnest plastic possible. They're only big enough for a small wastebasket, and they rip if you look at them wrong. So they only put in like two or three items per bag at the checkout, and often double-bag them.

        My primary motivation for using cloth bags for groceries is simply to avoid having those awful plastic bags lying around, so I won't be temped to reuse

      • Actually, I do use paper shopping bags as bags for paper waste, whereas I buy plastic bags for residual waste because they are bigger, more robust and I'm not dependent on shopping bags. I use plastic shopping bags for metal and plastic, which go into the same bin. I guess there is not much to gain here unless we also ban trash bags or at least reduce packaging waste by a lot.
      • by dbialac ( 320955 )
        Paper bags make good kindling.
      • The paper bag is more poluting to produce than plastic. Unless you plan to dump your bag in nature you polute more buying one over plastic

        • Lots of people do just dump bags, that's the problem. And if only there was an alternative to single user plastic bags and single user paper bags, you know like almost indefinitely reusable cloth bags for example that are also nearly indestructible and won't tear with heavy or pointy items.

          For example.

      • Besides not shedding micro-particles that get into our food and water supply, the other nice thing about paper bags is that they can be used to hold food waste for composting because they themselves compost so easily.

        My city has curbside composting pickup, and they won't take the "compostable" bioplastic bags. So I wish they would make paper shopping bags free again.

      • by skam240 ( 789197 )

        In any case the shopping bag wars can only be considered greenwashing, in light of every shopping bag containing a pound of plastic in food packaging... How about we go and do something about that?

        Oh c'mon now, greenwashing? The goal of these bans is to reduce plastic use not to eliminate it. This should be obvious given how targeted they are. If your plastic packaged groceries go home in a non-plastic bag then thats less plastic used. Goal met.

        As for using them as garbage bags, if you're getting all of your groceries in plastic then you are getting far more plastic bags then you could ever use on garbage as unless you have some other major source of garbage creation outside of food waste and packagi

    • Agreed, I haven't been using them for a long time, and it wasn't a tough transition. I use "reusable" bags, some of which are nice because they're insulated, but I have seen some studies that say such bags may be worse in the long term because they have proportionally more plastic per use. As I wear out these, I'm looking for alternatives (canvas?) that may be better.

      The only thing I miss about plastic bags is that they're handy around the house for a second use to bag up smelly expired food, throw out a de

      • The reusable bags from the supermarkets here are big, strong, & last for years, including the insulated types. I see lots of people using them for carrying laundry & carrying other large/bulking items too. I can't see them producing more plastic pollution than a daily/weekly stream of single-use bags.
      • I'm on a mix. I use cloth bags almost exclusively, with the number slowly growing over time as I get random freebies. I have a few insulated ones too which once had for ages. I've got a few woven plastic ones, Sainsbury's reliabags, which are really really good bags to the point where they end up getting dedicated to moving and storing heavy stuff rather than day to day shopping.

        Generally I just grab a handful of bags on the way to the shop. Or just use my panier bag if I'm going by bike.

        I do have a few pla

      • Reusable plastic bags are a good choice but be sure to sterilize them regularly.

        https://health.clevelandclinic... [clevelandclinic.org]

        • And how does the energy and resources used in cleaning the bag affect the environmental footprint? Bet it's more than negligable. Not to mention the suggestion in that article to not store the bags in the car, which would result in more cases where you forgot the bags and had to buy more, leading to less reuse.

          • It's more or less nonexistent.

            I use micro fibre cloths for cleaning because they are superior to disposable alternatives, especially for the kitchen. I have a microfiber mop head too. And I use cloth tea towels like a normal person. When they are done, I chuck them in a bucket and every so often, usually once a week was the lot at a sterilizing heat.

            I neither want enough spares that it fills up a wash and I don't want old cleaning stuff to fester for weeks, so the washing machine is never at capacity.

            And gu

    • They charge for bags here & they have to be reusable. The next step is to ban pre-packing fresh produce in plastic, i.e. layers of plastic packaging around fruit & veg. It's unnecessary & wasteful. Supermarkets already sell reusable net bags for putting fresh produce in. A lot of supermarkets already wrap meat & fish in glossed paper at the butcher & fishmonger counters but there's still lots pre-packaged in plastic & polystyrene. Bakers provide paper bags.

      I think ultimately banni
    • I've been in France for a while now and the only plastic bags you see are the nice reusable kind that you pay for if you forget your own shopping bag.

      It's actually quite nice to bring your own bag that doesn't rip apart with heavy items.

      Per the OP, yes you can live day to day without supermarket bags. It's not hard.

    • by dbialac ( 320955 )
      Spain does the same and most people just paid the cost and moved on.
    • ...and their neighbors were delighted as so we all shop at cities around Cambridge. :) In seriousness, I think that's a perfectly reasonable solution. Bans get quite harsh. Just tax them to incentivize them. A reusable bag typically costs $1 for a normal one and about $0.10 for a thick disposable semi-reusable one. If the store provides a bag, they need to charge you $0.10. I have always liked using reusable bags since they became a thing over 20 years ago. They simply carry more weight.

      My local g
  • Previous laws (Score:5, Informative)

    by test321 ( 8891681 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @08:12AM (#64229598)

    Apparently something similar has been passed in 2022 in California, to start in 2025, maybe someone can explain what's new here https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org] Recent coverage said similar laws has reduced by 98% the amount of bags used in UK https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org] . Outside slashdot we learn that about 100 countries have banned plastics bags https://www.euronews.com/green... [euronews.com] It's not clear if all of these 100 countries have similar terms, but the terms explained above (free thin bags banned, thick recyclable bags allowed for a fee) are the same as those in force in many European countries for some years.

    • Most Ontario grocery stores voluntarily stopped providing thin plastic grocery bags some time ago. It's not a big deal. The heavy, recycled plastic bags last for years. They gave some out at a tree planting festival I organized 10 or 11 years ago, and I'm still using mine.

  • Isn't it ironic (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dbialac ( 320955 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @08:13AM (#64229602)
    In the 80s, plastic bags were pushed as a better alternative to the environment than paper bags. Now it's the opposite. The replacement thicker reusable bags were just going to be treated the same as the thin ones. I saw the same whIle in Europe. The really thick bags some buy have an even bigger footprint and will take more uses than they can handle to break even. I personally have no issues with going back to paper bags.
    • I saw the same whIle in Europe.

      No you didn't. In Europe the move to really thick bags has seen a significant decline in plastic waste. People here actually reuse them. Of course it helps that most European countries also put a small charge for the bags (more countries do this than banning plastic bags). Results have varied from a crappy 50% to upwards of 90% reduction in plastic bag consumption.

      • We have a small charge in the US but it's like 10-15 cents, it's negligible compared to the cost of the food in the bag so it doesn't work. But if you raise the charge then it's abusive to poor people if they forget their bags. And most public transport is bad enough that they can't just go home and get them, it will take all damn day.

        • Re:Isn't it ironic (Score:5, Insightful)

          by jacks smirking reven ( 909048 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @10:55AM (#64230036)

          Anecdote time, as a fellow American only 1 of 5 grocery chains in my area charges for bags (Aldi) and as that's my weekly shop I see very very few people purchase the bags. It seems like a negligible charge does in fact work.

          But if you raise the charge then it's abusive to poor people if they forget their bags.

          Unrelated issues, if plastic bags are a pollution problem that should be dealt with. If the solution to that problem means some people are unfairly disadvantaged we can tackle that problem on it's own, either by providing free re-usable bags or providing a bag stipend directly. If poor people were disadvantaged because they can't afford time to dispose of their hazardous waste we wouldn't just allow them to dump.

      • by dbialac ( 320955 )
        Yes I did. If I could, I could upload a couple of photos at Gadis in Santiago where nearly everybody just got new bags instead of recycling the old grocery bags. But you can pretend somebody who clearly saw it didn't see it.
    • Nope. The reusable bags here are big, strong, have comfortable handles, & last for years. I've got some regularly used ones that are at least 4 years old. A lot of people use them instead of laundry baskets nowadays.
      • by dbialac ( 320955 )
        Why don't you go look at some studies about the topic. The studies I've read put it at about 3000 uses to break even and that the bags won't last that long.
    • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @10:26AM (#64229942)
      to the super market [youtube.com]

      The idea is to use canvas because it lasts basically forever, can be washed and doesn't put microplastics out there. The really think plastic bags aren't nearly as long lasting. They easily get punctured and once they do they basically fall apart.
    • The problem is not the carbon footprint of the manufacture. The problem is the thin plastic bags are discarded and end up as a blight on the landscape.
      • Re:Isn't it ironic (Score:5, Informative)

        by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @01:36PM (#64230416)

        The problem is not the carbon footprint of the manufacture. The problem is the thin plastic bags are discarded and end up as a blight on the landscape.

        For single-use plastic bags, granted. Other type of, reusable, bags have a much higher carbon and manufacturing footprint and must be reused many times to offset that. From Plastic, Paper or Cotton: Which Shopping Bag is Best? [columbia.edu] and Here’s how many times you need to reuse your reusable grocery bags [cnn.com] (and many other sources):

        Generally speaking, bags that are intended to last longer are made of heavier materials, so they use more resources in production and therefore have greater environmental impacts. To equal the relatively low global warming impact of plastic bags, paper and cotton bags need to be used many times; however, it’s unlikely that either could survive long enough to be reused enough times to equal the plastic bag’s lower impact.

        Ultimately, the single use of any bag is the worst possible choice. The key to reducing your environmental impact is to use whatever bags you have around the house as many times and in as many ways as possible.

        From the CNN article:
        A report produced for the United Nations Environmental Programme [lifecycleinitiative.org] in 2020 (PDF) found a thick and durable polypropylene (PP) bag (they often have a woven feel) must be used for an estimated 10 to 20 times compared to one single use plastic bag, while a slimmer but still reusable polyethylene (PE) bag five to 10 times.

        This 2018 study Life Cycle Assessment of grocery carrier bags [www2.mst.dk] (PDF) goes into a LOT of detail on different kinds of bags, also noting:

        A 2018 Danish Environmental Protection Agency report suggested that a cotton bag should be used at least 7,100 times to offset its environment impact when compared to a classic supermarket plastic bag that’s reused once as a trash bag and then incinerated. (If that cotton is organic, the figure is an eye-popping 20,000 times, with the report assuming a lower yield but the same input of raw materials.)

    • Re:Isn't it ironic (Score:4, Informative)

      by e3m4n ( 947977 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:54PM (#64230332)
      Until the next covid. Then it will be all single use plastics once again.
  • Great (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Artem S. Tashkinov ( 764309 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @08:15AM (#64229606) Homepage

    This is great news. Now please ban the use of plastic for packaging of small items. Literally everything is wrapped in tons of plastic.

    And then it would be nice to see to return to glass packaging for milk and its derivatives, e.g. yogurt. And make it so that returning the packaging would grant you money or a discount on new purchases, so that people would be incentivized to do so.

    • Totally agree. I really don't understand why all the packaging. It must add a lot to costs.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        Less glass = less breakage in handling and transport = lower costs.

        I hate glass. Do you know how many times my kid drops something or puts it hanging over the edge in the fridge like a "fridge IED" waiting to go off when the next unlucky person opens the fridge sending a -plastic- container to the floor?

        I don't care what they use as long as it can take a 6 foot drop without leaving a mess of glass and food splattered everywhere.

      • Depends on the good, things such as cucumbers or paprikas see a significant increase in shelf life and a reduction in food waste when wrapped in plastic. But that's no excuse for stupid shit like pre-peeled oranges wrapped in plastic.

    • And then it would be nice to see to return to glass packaging for milk and its derivatives, e.g. yogurt. And make it so that returning the packaging would grant you money or a discount on new purchases, so that people would be incentivized to do so.

      Some things are plastic wrapped because they improve shelf life and reduce food waste. That said there's plenty of stupid examples too, like I bought a paint brush the other day where the bristles were wrapped in plastic. Like WTF! Or I also saw a pre-peeled orange wrapped in plastic. The orange literally comes wrapped on the tree.

      That said I wouldn't jump straight to glass. Milk cartons are recyclable, and the milk I buy is in cartons made from... milk cartons. The snake eats its own tail here :-) Ban the

      • by Calydor ( 739835 )

        Not to mention the weight of glass compared to paper or plastic, which increases the fuel consumption to move the goods around.

    • Re: Banning single-use plastic packaging, Germany has had a law requiring all beverage containers to be reusable & to carry a not-insignificant deposit for a few decades now. They have "Getranketmarkts" where Germans bring crates of empties to exchange for crates of full bottles, although they're mostly plastic rather than glass (It wouldn't be a huge difference to ban plastics in that either). It's faster & more efficient than buying drinks in a regular supermarket & very popular. It's been a w
    • by dbialac ( 320955 )
      I recently walked out of an REI location after picking out a number of smaller items to buy. I then dropped everything where I was in the store and left. I drove 40 minutes to get there, each way. If you're going to waste my time, I'm happy to waste the time of your employees while you have to pay them. Anyway, I then in turn bought the items from a smaller local store, a store that gave me a bag. For the record, I always put the plastic bags in the recycling bin at the grocery store.
    • by e3m4n ( 947977 )
      So no ketchup for you thru the drive-thru or to-go lines. Almost all of your condiments, and to-go silverware are wrapped in single use nom-recyclable plastic.
  • You can't put cuts of meat in them. They become contaminated. Personally I like the paper bags with handles, and I wish we could go back to those everywhere.

    • You can't put a cut of meat into a paper bag with handles, either. It will soak and break out, and also who knows how clean that paper is or isn't? But you can wrap a piece of meat in waxed paper or more commonly these days cling wrap, and then put it in any kind of bag.

    • The meat & fish counters here wrap stuff in glossed paper, i.e. water resistant, but they do also put that in a thin, single use plastic bag. I can imagine that making it expensive to use plastic could result in shoppers bringing reusable insulated containers to put meat & fish wrapped in paper in, the same way that they habitually bring their own reusable bags to the supermarket. If you have home deliveries, life would be even easier.
    • by piojo ( 995934 )

      Unless they are laminated, I suspect laundering them gets them clean enough for everything except chewing on.

    • I carry meat all the time in reusable bags. The butcher wraps it in waxed paper, and when I'm done I chuck the bag in the hot wash with a bunch of other things I want hot washed.

      I do love hearing from plastic bag fans how my day to day life is impossible. I can assure you that out is not impossible.

  • by neilo_1701D ( 2765337 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @08:18AM (#64229614)

    This happened in New Jersey a few years ago. Despite the warning, despite the advertising, on the day of introduction it was chaos. A week later, still chaos but getting less.

    A month later, it was normal.

    • It is NOT normal in New Jersey. Shopping baskets have disappeared as a result, so if you want to shop but don't want to take a cart, you either have to hold the items in your hands or shop into a bag you brought.

      The stores don't want you shopping into a bag you brought because of the potential for shoplifting, so they put up signs against it and doing it risks being accosted by Loss Prevention. If you get to the checkout (perhaps with a cart) and realize you've forgotten your bags, you're screwed. Maybe

      • by dbialac ( 320955 )

        Shopping baskets have disappeared as a result

        I mean you're talking about New Jersey. Things are going to disappear. It's just a part of the experience. New Jersey is the only place I've ever been where every bad thing I ever heard about it was true. I remember driving in from Pennsylvania once and there was a warning sign right before you left warning that you were about to pass the last exit in Pennsylvania. After crossing a state border on an interstate, there's typically a rest stop funded with federal funds. Not in New Jersey. There was just a par

        • Baskets were generally available before the bag ban and not after, so it's not just a New Jersey thing. What happened most likely is people would get to the checkout, not have bags, and just take the basket to the car. And some people would not dump their stuff into the car but just take the basket. And so the stores saw increased costs from replacing the baskets so they pulled them all instead; after all, the point of the stores supporting the bag ban was to reduce their costs, not increase it.

    • by mpercy ( 1085347 )

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/p... [forbes.com]

      Four years on, however, there is evidence that New Jersey’s bag prohibition not only failed to curb plastic usage, it backfired. According to a new study released on January 9 by the Freedonia Group, 53 million pounds worth of plastic shopping bags were used in New Jersey prior to implementation of the state’s bag ban, a figure that has risen to 151 million pounds since the prohibition was instituted.

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news... [msn.com]

      Plastic consumption in New Jer

  • by rossdee ( 243626 )

    What are they supposed to use instead?

  • It would be interesting to see the math on whether this is a plus or minus environmentally.

    Why not force recycling say you only get a one new plastic bag per old plastic bag that you return?

    As implied in the article, the problem isn't plastic bags per se, it's that people aren't re-using or re-cycling them. So why not address re-use and re-cycling?

  • Reusable bags, and paper bags, aren't a good idea for meat that may leak juices. They aren't great for small produce items or packaged salads.

    Sure, ban plastic if you want to, but what other options are there?

    • Let them eat cake.

      The people doing the banning have their groceries delivered to their door by the help. They don't give a fuck.

    • I have an insulated bag and I ask the bagger to put the meat into that. I can turn it inside out and wipe it down with my household cleaner. Takes like 20 seconds.

      • And you're sure that when you clean this insulated bag in 20 seconds, that you got all the e. coli that may be lurking in the crevice's and seams and stitching where the panels of the bag are held together?

        • by dskoll ( 99328 )

          If you only use that bag for meat, then you just cook your meat properly and you're OK. A good proportion of raw meat is contaminated anyway, so regardless of how you transport it, you have to follow safe food preparation measures.

          Of course, if you sometimes use the bag for other things like vegetables that you don't cook, then it's a problem.

          • There are two issues with your approach.

            First, the risk of accidental cross-contamination is not zero, even if you are careful.
            Second, harmful bacteria can produce toxins that are not neutralized by cooking, even if the bacteria themselves are killed.

        • Yes, it's perfectly sterile from nonsporeforming bacteria, such as E. Coli, after wiping it down with a strong surfactant or soap, which is abundant in the cleaner I use, and letting it air dry. Mold spores are more difficult to eliminate but not the issue here.

      • I suggest you use a black light and inspect your bag. You might be surprised at how much meat juice is left behind by your cleaning process.

        • Looks clean. I'd have to apply Luminol to be sure. But I'm interested in minimizing the risk of cross contamination, and not in finding the killer of my chuck roast.

    • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:13PM (#64230238)

      This is California. They'll just ban meat.

    • I use cloth bags.

      If I think it needs cleaning, it goes on the washing machine at 90 degrees with a bunch of other stuff that needs cleaning.

      This is not rocket surgery.

      How on earth are people making such a meal of this?

  • San Luis Obispo County banned plastic bags back in 2012 countywide, and the results are dramatic. Beaches and highway shoulders were transformed in very short order.
    It really doesn't take that much extra effort.
  • when they did one of The First In In The Nation bag bans.

    First they banned checkout bags.

    Then they banned PET produce bags too because petrochemicals bad. They replaced them with some kind of trashy compostable film bags that ripped at the slightest poke, were harder to open, and felt like a used condom.

    Because green. Nevermind that most of the world's plastic waste comes from countries without any regs where they just dump their trash in rivers, not here where we dispose of it more cleanly. Doesn't matter.

  • by AnotherBlackHat ( 265897 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @10:33AM (#64229960) Homepage

    "It shows that the plastic bag ban that we passed in this state in 2014 did not reduce the overall use of plastic. It actually resulted in a substantial increase in plastic,"

    They tried banning plastic bags, and the problem got worse. So their solution is even more of the same.

    • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      "It shows that the plastic bag ban that we passed in this state in 2014 did not reduce the overall use of plastic. It actually resulted in a substantial increase in plastic,"

      They tried banning plastic bags, and the problem got worse. So their solution is even more of the same.

      This. I said exactly what was going to happen way back when they first passed this law, but nobody listened. This outcome was entirely expected and obvious, though to be fair, it was even worse than I expected, because the use of plastic bags was further increased by the rapid increase in people getting food delivered, which is entirely incompatible with reusable bags.

      And of course, because people now have these big, thick bags instead of disposable thin bags, that small increase in the number of bags mea

  • by MpVpRb ( 1423381 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @10:49AM (#64230002)

    Just about every item in the store is packaged in plastic

  • Bags (Score:2, Funny)

    by Randseed ( 132501 )
    The natural result of this will be me bringing in some 30 gallon black trash bags to hold my groceries or whatever it is. I'm sure Loss Prevention will love that. Go sort through every customer and hope he doesn't have a few cans of beans or, for that matter, sushi he didn't actually pay for. Who makes this shit up? Oh, it's California, so liberals.
  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday February 10, 2024 @11:13AM (#64230084)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • "Democratic state Sen. Catherine Blakespear said people are not reusing or recycling those bags"

    Are you actually watching us? I see people reusing the bags at the grocery store all the time, because THEY GET CHARGED FOR THEM. I reuse the bags because they're GREAT for holding used cat litter and don't fucking break like regular trash bags, they also work for carrying lots of rocks that I mine in the desert.

    "She points to a state study that found the amount of plastic shopping bags trashed per person grew fr

    • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      "She points to a state study that found the amount of plastic shopping bags trashed per person grew from 8 pounds per year in 2004 to 11 pounds per year in 2021"

      Right around the time those THICKER, HEAVIER BAGS were introduced. HOWEVER - these newer thicker bags are 8-10x the weight of the original thinner ones, so for her logic were to actually hold weight we'd need to go from 8 pounds per year per person to 64-80 pounds of plastic bag per person per year.

      But in spite of some reuse, the net amount of plastic is still higher than it was before, which means the law was an abject failure.

      One big cause is the increased use of delivery and pickup for grocery shopping. During the pandemic, more than 22% of all grocery shopping [sciencedirect.com] was done either by delivery or pickup. And although that probably has gone done some since then, I'm sure it's still way higher than before.

      Reusable cloth bags really aren't feasible for delivery, so they're delivering food in those thick

    • Hey sig stalker! Still waiting for you to let me in on who Jessica price is.

      With your weirdly obsessive dig out of the way. Yeah you know I think the tradeoff between the millions of normal people using less plastic at the cost of a desert rock farmer using more is worth it.

      There's really not many people who regularly carry home desert rocks.

  • Paper, please.

  • Everything not prohibited must be compulsory.

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